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Rachel Denning (00:00.078)
All right, everybody, welcome to another episode of the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We are going to do this episode we've hinted at and have been hesitant about, but actually... Or, as I was saying, we're going to do an episode we probably shouldn't be doing. Yeah. She's like, you're not going to do that already. I'm like, yeah. But we are going to do it. We're going to do it. And I just want to say probably the biggest reason we are going to do it, well, the biggest reason we shouldn't do it...

is because we generally try to stay out of politics. Like we're apolitical, is what we call ourselves. And we've been that way for a long time, like many years, when we've traveled the world and when we've created the life of our dreams, which we have done. I mean, it's all been, of course we have political viewpoints, but we don't consider ourselves political people. Sometimes we just decide not to have political viewpoints.

because it's something that's been politicized. And we're like, let's just look at the principle, let's look at the practice. And that's what we're gonna talk about. I wanna get that point, but I'm saying we don't usually make podcasts, videos, or talk about political topics because we like to stay outside of them. Right. Right. So this isn't something we would normally do, talk about a topic that's...

Become politicized. I want to emphasize that because this isn't a political topic. It's just become politicized, right? They've used it that way right and so we want to make that clarifying point because I think that's a very key point to understanding this is that it is something that's not normally political but it has become politicized big time and and what's interesting I guess the driving force for me is we have people, you know, sincerely reaching out and saying hey

What's the best way to think about this? Like how do I wrap my head around it? How do I see the big picture of this? Which we love to do that. Like, okay, let's back way out and not see this for what it is in this moment in the space. Let's go out across time and place and see a bigger picture. Cause it helps us think more clearly about it. So this is my driving force. I'm like, okay, well, what are the things that have led to help me think differently?

Rachel Denning (02:17.517)
about this issue and all kinds of issues. Yeah, exactly. Really about death and health in general and practices and where each of us stands and it's gonna be different for everybody. But like, how is this, how do I come to those conclusions and as I've thought through it, I'm like, oh yeah, I wanna share that process. Right. I wanna share the journey. Well, because that is the process we have used throughout our life and throughout our marriage. Like we've used this process of viewing the world.

not from a political lens because we see that that becomes so myopic, but through a zoomed out lens to look at it from multiple angles, like the rotisserie chicken, right? And to look at it across domains of knowledge. So we're looking at it from a philosophical, psychological, biological, religious, all these different perspectives to see, okay, if it fits across these things, then that's more likely that that's true.

instead of like we're looking at it here myopically and based on this information right here this is true and you're like you can't do that right like that's just not how we've ever come to any conclusions in our life about anything we've done like you just can't do that and and interestingly if you only look at that small pocket and you only talk to people with your same views you just you're on this little revolving door of

confirmation bias. Exactly. You're like, see, see, there it is again, see. Exactly. And that's why we wanted to do this together because we have different views and we think that that's a great thing. Rachel loves correcting my confirmation bias. And you love correcting my confirmation bias. But I think that that makes our overall viewpoints.

are combined viewpoints healthier and more balanced because we're not afraid to analyze or criticize the other person's or be wrong. So whenever you take a perspective, there's always going to be a limitation on any perspective because that's exactly what it is. It's just a perspective. Yeah. So there'll always be a limitation and we are limited. It might be wrong, but we want to share some ideas. There's always...

Rachel Denning (04:30.093)
two sides to every story and then there's the truth. So what you're getting today is two sides of a story and somewhere in there there's going to be some truth. Exactly. And so anyways, let's dive in. So again, we're talking about the vaccine, but we're not talking about the vaccine. Right. And we're not talking about the vaccine in a way to try and convince you of one opinion or the other or that one political viewpoint is right and the other is wrong. Now you may come to some of those conclusions on your own. That's...

That's up to you and what your thought process is at the time. But our sincere belief is that we don't know all the information. I don't think anyone knows all the information. I think it will be 10 or 20 years before we look back on time and say, oh, guess what? Look back in history and say, this is what happened during that time. Right now we're in the middle of it trying to figure it out. We can't know. And so yes, we have some viewpoints that we've come to.

And we're going to share some of the information we're looking at, asking questions about, considering, wondering, all that stuff. But it's from this zoomed out viewpoint and lens of, let's look across domains of knowledge and not just at the political.

Rachel Denning (05:49.485)
What's the political trend? Well, it's the political trend, like what's hot right now, what's being stirred up, what's being really just kind of fed at us. Focused on. They're trying to shock you and there's a lot of tension and that's worth addressing maybe later, but they're putting a lot of tension and a lot of animosity.

Almost sometimes some people are just feeding this hatred which we talked about last time but like that it's just it's feeding into the base problem So let's back out and I'll start with with my kind of little journey of where this started this was Easily over a decade ago and I was reading a great book, right? and almost all of our almost all of our journey starts with reading a great book and I was reading from this book and the author just in passing to make a point he said something about

the amount of people killed during this period of war, the amount of people killed on the roadways in the United States from drunk drivers. And the number was significant. And he just said it in passing, and it's kind of a good point. I was like, whoa, that's a lot. So I jumped on, I'm like, how many people are dying now from drunk drivers, and what are the causes of death? And so again, 10, 12, 15 years ago, it pops up. Well, you honestly.

have been geeking out about numbers. I mean, he's always telling us, and this has been happening for like 10 years. Did you know this many number of people die from blah, blah, blah, whatever every year? Like this has been going on for a while. For a year, and I kinda, it's weird, like I tell people, I'm like geeking out about the causes and numbers of death, like how many people are dying, because it's an indicator, right? It's always an indicator of like, whoa, this, it's a symptom of a bigger problem. Right. But here's,

Here's what I have seen as the problem is when this whole COVID thing started coming up and they were reporting numbers of deaths every day. And if people aren't aware of how many people are dying every day anyways, which I already was, I'm like, oh yeah, man, there's a few thousand people die every single day in this country. In fact, I want to do the math right now. Just to geek out a little bit here.

Rachel Denning (08:09.933)
Let's see if I can get enough zeros right here. That's it right there, right? And what's the number supposed to be? 3 .6 million people died in 2020. So that is 900, almost 10 ,000 people a day. Holy cow. It's bigger than I thought. I knew it was a few thousand. So just shy of 10 ,000 people died.

every day in 2020. Not only because of COVID. Only a percentage of that, a small percentage of that was COVID. Well, we should get the numbers. We will. I got them all. I got all the exact numbers. I'm going to geek out here a little bit and share this. And I hope you guys appreciate, even if you don't like the statistics or the numbers or whatever, just see the magnitude of it. And so all along I knew, I'm like, okay, there's thousands of people dying.

from preventable diseases every day. And I had some friends, I had a good friend in Costa Rica who was a cardiologist, and he was a world renowned cardiologist. He traveled all over the earth presenting. And he would just get so fired up, and I met with him a lot and we talked about it, he would get so fired up, he's like, so many people die in all of these, like the most developed countries. He was flying around Europe and Australia, and this was, he's a friend from Costa Rica, in Costa Rica and the US.

And he's like, it's these developed countries where they're dying of preventable heart disease. In insane numbers. He's like, we can stop this. We can do something about this. In developing countries, preventable causes are the leading causes of death. Right, exactly. Preventable things, right? Preventable things. So I knew this from years back and I'm like, yeah, there's thousands of people dying every single day. But if you don't know that, if you don't...

And who does? Who goes around thinking, I wonder how many people died today? Besides Greg Denning. Besides someone who came across it on accident, right? And I'm like, well, that's fascinating. It really just shocked me back then. I'm like, I didn't realize how many people die every day. Wait, hold on though. Let's even clarify even further. Although I'm asking a question because I don't know. Does that number of 10 ,000, almost 10 ,000 people per day include things like car accidents? Yep. Okay. Yep. These are just deaths in the United States. Now in 2020 - United States only. Yep, United States only. 2020, it was actually higher.

Rachel Denning (10:22.669)
and there was a chunk because of COVID, but we're talking about the other causes and actually major rises in death in 2020. In other sources. In other areas. So it caused - That may or may not have been as a cause of - Oh, it was, right. It was totally related and not causation, but correlation. There's definitely correlation in a massive rise in deaths in other areas because of what was going on in 2020. So if you don't know that and you don't think about it, and then all you hear on the news is like, this many people died, this many people died, this many people -

You're sitting back going, people are dying. We've got to do something about this. But never once, never once did I hear them say, well, actually today and every single day throughout 2020, more people died of preventable heart disease than from COVID.

Let that sink in. Every single day on average, if you average it out across here, every single day more people died from preventable heart disease, and I'm gonna give you a whole list and you'll be blown away, than from COVID. Now some of those people that died from preventable heart disease died with COVID. Exactly, yep. So there's a part of it. But only in the Senate. But that even makes the number even bigger then. No, this is like direct separation. If you just separate it out, but yeah, you're right. A lot of the people who died with COVID - Because the ones who had, who -

We're dying of preventable heart disease, but had COVID, we're marked as a COVID death. Sure. Or COVID sped up their death. And again, as we talk about death, I don't want you to think we're heartless. And we think, ah, 10 ,000 people, what do you do? We've lost family members. Rachel and I watched her father pass away from cancer, colon cancer. We're going to talk about cancer.

and my brother just died recently. So from drug overdose, which was also on the number. So yes, part of the 10 ,000 a day in 2020 was a major increase in drug overdoses, right? Which I think we can all agree that there was at least some correlation to what was happening in 2020 that was leading to some of these other things. And you guys today, I really, as much as I possibly can,

Rachel Denning (12:42.701)
I want to try to share things that I think wherever you are on the spectrum of politics or beliefs or whatever, I want to try to share as many things possible that we can all just say, yep, we can all agree on, for the most part, we can all agree on. And so we're going to come across those and address some of those issues, but we just have to stop. And I don't want you to think we're heartless. Like we care. I know each death is significant. It really is. It's affecting. It's affecting. Families and marriages and children and like.

Oh, it's tough. But it's also a big picture perspective when you zoom out and you see it differently. You realize, OK, 10 ,000 people die every single day in this country. That's not insignificant. And it's not what it brings back to is like, oh, OK, well, people are dying every day all the time from all kinds of causes, many of which, most of which I would say are preventable.

things like smoking, things like - Well, we'll get into that, right? We'll hit all the - So one of the things that we wanna get into, but I guess I'm gonna mention it right now, is that if any of these other causes of death, like even heart disease, was to be focused on in the media, on social media, in conversations, if it was to become an area of focus like COVID has,

then it would also become politicized like COVID has. So I guess that's kind of the framework we're wanting to talk about here is like, we all need to back out for a minute and look at this from all angles and all sides, use the rotisserie chicken here and think, okay, let's look at COVID, not that it's not insignificant, but look at it from a context in compared to these other.

other issues, other concerns, other causes of death. And also realize that if those other causes of death were reported every single day on the news in the government, that they would also be as intensified as COVID is at the moment. I don't know that like there's an argument you can make.

Rachel Denning (15:02.637)
against that point. From anything I can look at, I don't think that we could disagree on that. What they've done is they've taken one issue and put it right in front of our faces and really charged it with emotion and fear. Now obviously it is unique, it has some uniqueness, so we can argue like, well this is different than heart disease. And you're right, you could. So I just did the math right now because in 2020, I remembered the number because it stood out.

690 ,822 people died of preventable heart disease. Well, most of which was preventable, not all of it. But we'll just say heart disease. So 690 ,822 people died of heart disease in 2022, or 2020. And I just did the math. It is 1 ,892 people every day. If.

If that... From preventable heart disease. Well, most of which is preventable. From heart disease, sorry. So, if that was on the news every day, like, hey, 2 ,000 people, 2 ,000 more people died today from heart disease, we have a special report tonight of what's causing it and what you can do to prevent it, and if that were brought into front of attention, it would change things. In fact, more people, way more people, so let me give this context. I was going to do this later, but I'll hit it right now.

So at 690 ,000, only as of today, at the time of this recording, total number of deaths attributed to COVID. And again, even sites that I disagree with are saying, hey, not all of those can be fully blamed on COVID, right? There's a big difference between the underlying cause of death and a contributing cause of death, right? So we can't agree, but.

as of the time this recording is 676 ,000 people. So now wait more people that hold. 676 ,000 people died of COVID as an underlying cause or a contributing cause or both? Both. Okay. Everything. And, and I think most people are in agreement that some of those deaths were even like, Hey, if they had COVID, go ahead and put it on the death certificate. Or the means you see of like you died in a car accident. Yeah, that's COVID.

Rachel Denning (17:22.093)
Right. And again, we're not going extreme, but I think we can all agree again that some of those and again, hospital administration will tell you like, hey, there was so much funding that if if covid was even a slight factor, where do you get that information? Well, OK, so we'll back up. We'll back up. We'll back up. We'll leave that alone. But even at six hundred seventy six thousand. Well, that's an 18 total. Well, almost we're coming up almost on two years. So, yeah.

18 months is conservative in 18 months, but this is in a 12 month period. More people died of heart disease in a 12 month period than COVID in an 18 month period. So it's not, it's not just about pure numbers. And we get into the other number and I keep saying we'll get into it, maybe let's just go. Well, right, we should. But because if we were focusing on the number of deaths happening from heart disease every day, then you would see people on social media saying,

you people that eat at McDonald's are just the worst. Or what would happen is it'd start getting so polarized because of the current environment, man, you'd have hate crimes against people working at fast food restaurants and saying, you are murderers. You people are murderers. And then they would be attacking the companies that make, process and package foods. And the sugar industry, it's crazy, but look at what's happening. It sounds funny or crazy that we would even be saying that. And yet...

Can any of us argue that if that was the focus in the media, because they're saying these are verifiable deaths, people are dying from these things. And they know the causes. We have to do something to put a stop to it. Now, of course, there's the argument that, well, heart disease isn't contagious, like a virus. So there's less fear there because people aren't afraid that you're going to pass them heart disease.

per se. So there is a different element there. That's a perfect. Oh good. That's a perfect lead into another perspective. So let's just zoom back out again. Another perspective that we love to get from studying history and literally traveling all over the world, talking to people, learning about different events. And again, the whole idea here is like, let's zoom out or go around the backside and get a totally different perspective. Unfortunately, when early on when they came out like, okay, this could be a major serious epidemic.

Rachel Denning (19:49.613)
It scared a lot of people, including us. We're like, oh man, if this is real deal, like we got to buckle down. In fact, we at first thought it was very, it was going to be very serious. It was going to be very deadly. That was our initial take on the research we had done. And they were portraying it as such. And so you go back through history. We started self -quarantining before quarantine was required. We're like, we're going to take it serious. We sat the kids down. We're like, let's feed. We have, you know, fans.

family that are in high risk groups and we did not want to put them at risk. So we were doing this ahead of the curve in a way. Because we thought that it would be big, big as in, here's a perfect example. In 1918, the H1N1 flu, the influenza spread across the world with rapid fire. They estimate that 50 million people, no, sorry, 500 million people

were infected and 50 million died. Okay. Let that sink in. 50 million deaths in 1918. That's a 10 % death rate. That's massive. And initially we were thinking that's what this could be. Yeah. If this could be, or even you guys, I read these histories about, well, lots of history. I've read lots of histories. One of the recent ones that really kind of hit me hard.

was the settling of the Ohio River Valley when the settlers came in and just moved east and went to the Ohio River Valley. The fluid come through there and it came through a few years in a row and each winter a large percentage of the people died. And it was so much so that the rest of the settlers were at risk of death because like all the blacksmith died. So it's like us saying, well, we're concerned about hospitals being full and overcrowded, which...

we could talk about that, but. But what would happen if all the doctors died? If all the doctors died or if all, you know, all the guys who run the internet companies, they all die. And nobody knows anything about COVID. Nobody can fix the internet or all the electricians or all the plumbers, like they all died. Like what would happen to our society if all the plumbers got this real, and that's what we're talking about with these huge numbers at a 10 % death rate. Yeah. So, well, let's, let's compare it now to COVID.

Rachel Denning (22:15.341)
Yeah, I want to do that comparison. I just want to, this reminded me that when I read the book 1491 about - Yes, I actually put that in my notes. No, go there. Go there. So there's this great book called 1491. Who was the author? I don't remember his name. I can't remember. Anyways, um, it's about what the world was like before Columbus discovered it, right? But she didn't actually discover it. But before, before things changed, Columbus was kind of a turning point. He did drastically change the world.

after his journeys and stuff. But anyways, one of the things that happened with him coming across to the Americas was the spreading of disease. They brought all these diseases, which they were immune to in the old world, but they brought it to the new world. And that was one of the major contributing reasons for them to be able to colonize the new world was because so many of the indigenous people died off from diseases that were brought.

Do you remember some estimates? It's so high. It's been like 10 years since I've lived in the country. It was significantly ridiculously high. Like 80 % or 90 % I remember. I don't know if I would say that high, but it was over 50 % for sure. So more than half of the population was wiped out. They were dying from smallpox and diseases we don't have now, but they had brought it from the old world.

and killed off populations and that was what allowed more of the, it wasn't just the violence, you know, from them coming in and killing them off. They actually, a lot of them died from disease. So anyways. So then we all have to stop and back up and say, wow, even if it were at 10%, which is crazy. And we can all agree that it's not anywhere near 10%. Well, I'll give you the exact numbers from right today that we just did the calculations on.

But even if it was 10%, 90 out of 100 people would survive. Society goes on, yeah, it's a tragedy. It is an absolute tragedy. We would all personally know people who had passed away, and it would be significant, and there would be a massive, massive impact. That would be turned into millions of people, just the United States alone. And that would be huge, but still, if you back out and say, well, still 90, 90 out of 100 survived, it's still good odds, right?

Rachel Denning (24:38.701)
But then the numbers as of today with estimated infections, and again, not all the infections are reported, not all the positive tests, because not everybody goes and gets tested, and not everybody reports when they have it. And not everyone who gets tested is positive. Right. Now, we're saying this from our own personal experience because we've had COVID.

twice that we're pretty sure of. Yeah. So we can't say 100%, but boy, we had all the symptoms, including loss of smell and taste. And the first time we got it in February, 2020, after traveling to Thailand and South Korea, we came back, the whole family got COVID. It wasn't fun. I'm not going to say like COVID's fun or not a big deal. Like I don't want to get COVID. It's not a fun disease. It's for us. It made us very lethargic, tired, all of that.

Um, and then the second time we got it was just probably last month, right? The first time we went to get tested and both of us tested negative, even though we're like, if this isn't COVID, I don't know what it is. Cause we've had a lot of, we've traveled a lot. So we've been exposed to a lot of different sicknesses and illnesses. The second time we didn't even go to get tested, although we knew it was COVID cause we had like every single symptom, including loss of smell and taste. So you're just.

We're adding that as information because not every person... And our whole family got it and we didn't go... Our numbers don't show up. Right, we don't show up at all because our whole family of eight or nine, because our daughter had it the first time, did not go to report that we actually had COVID. And I know lots of people saying that this happened. So anyways, but take the numbers exactly as they are. And you do the calculation... Which does not include what we just talked about. Right. And you do the calculation. Worst case scenarios...

It is 1 .5 % fatality. Well, let's give the numbers. Exactly, because... Well, I got it right here. I thought it was interesting. It is 42 .3 million confirmed cases in the US and 676 ,000 deaths. And if you take that number and divide it, it is 1 .5%. Okay. And you were saying with the Spanish flu, it was 500 million cases? Yep. Was that right? Yep. And 50 million deaths. Was that worldwide? Yeah, that was worldwide.

Rachel Denning (26:56.013)
That was worldwide. We don't have the worldwide numbers right now. And so, you know, the percentages... So at 42... It's significant. At 42 million with 676 ,000 deaths, that's 1 .5 % deaths. Yep. Fatality, right? Now, if you look at the numbers, and again, you can find this... That's from the CDC. Yeah. And you guys, you can go look on any website that you... Again, we're trying to share things I think we can all agree on. So some of you are like, well, I don't trust those websites. And some of you are like, well, I don't trust those websites.

I think across the board any website you go look at, you're gonna find that the fatality rates above 49 years old go up a little bit and then above 69 years old they go up a lot. So the bulk of the deaths are above 69, really below 49. It is, the survival rate is so high, it's like 99 .8 or sometimes 99 .9 that it's hardly even significant. So anyone who's in decent health and below...

69 especially below 49 has such a low risk It almost doesn't show up on the charts and and again you can find those numbers on any website you try well, and I think that kind of We use the CDC because on both sides people are at least gravitating to that as a source of They're trying to find some

But you're right there could be on the left or the right or whatever viewpoint you have Those numbers are going to be either more extreme or less extreme, but at least the CDC is kind of a middle point You know some people might say I don't believe the CDC at all right and okay, that's fair But most people are at least gonna use it as a reference point right so let's let's look at again We're just trying to get big big perspective big perspective and

The goal is unpoliticized perspective. We're trying to view it from a non -political viewpoint as much as possible, just by backing out and saying, okay, how does this fit into the bigger picture? How does it fit into? Because again, it's not like we're saying COVID deaths don't matter. COVID isn't important, but we are trying to say, how does COVID fit into everything else that's going on? Yeah.

Rachel Denning (29:18.477)
and all the deaths that are happening all the time and the real big epidemics and pandemics that have happened in the past. And when you give it a different perspective, when you change your angle on anything, you can ask different questions. So it makes me ask, well, like, okay, these kind of numbers is a vaccine necessary, right? And you can answer that question. And then you're like, well, these numbers and percentages, is it mandatory?

for everybody? Do we need to vaccinate a certain percentage or all? Or is it really the death sentence that some people still believe it is? And is it really as dangerous? Right? It's... Because we're trying to ask the question, is all the hype, excitement, fear, polarization around COVID, around the vaccine, is that due to the fact that it is...

as serious as we initially thought it was going to be? Or is it due to the fact that it has become politicized? That's one of the points because if you can start to see that something has become politicized, right? Because again, there's a difference. Or even brought into the media is what I was going to say. They just bring it into focus and it makes it seem a lot bigger than it is. Almost by nature politicize these things because I think the nature of...

mainstream media is to politicize things. So is it that way because it's been politicized by the mainstream media, by government, or is it that way because it is that way? Does that make sense? Right, right. And so again, backing out, changing the perspective gives you a different way to look at this. So the reality is, again, not our opinion here, the reality is more people die every day from other preventable causes, and we're gonna hit that right now, I think, than...

from COVID and you're more likely to die, again, just looking pure numbers, just pure statistics. You're more likely to die of these other causes than you are of COVID. So then that begs the question, ooh, shouldn't we as a nation be giving that more attention if we're really truly about saving lives? Maybe.

Rachel Denning (31:42.061)
I was going to say the irony as well is that for some of these leading causes of death, which you're going to go over, they're also leading contributing causes or leading contributors to death by COVID, right? Say that again. Some of the leading causes of death, like heart disease. Okay. Some of the other ones we're going to hit right now are also.

leading contributing factors to death by COVID. Yes. So there's actually crossover. Yes. What's really fascinating and we can hit, we can hit that right now. Um, okay, let's, let's do this real quick inside of COVID. What they're, they're, they're finding there are factors that are making it far more susceptible to it. Well, more susceptible. Yeah, that's, that's the other stuff we'll hit. But when, when you get it,

make your symptoms or your reactions to it far more severe or more likely to die. And they found out three really significant ones. Again, this is on the CDC. You can go read it. They have found now, just kind of watching it, they said there was three factors worth reporting that really increased the probability of severe symptoms or death. Number one, which won't surprise us, is obesity.

So quite literally your BMI, your body mass index or what percentage of your body is fat has, it plays a major role, a significant role at least in the severity of your symptoms and possible death. That's a big one. Number two blew me away. It was anxiety or fear related illnesses, meaning your fear around it, your thoughts about it.

played a significant role in your symptoms and possible death. Which I think is extremely significant, especially considering the amount of fear that is happening in the world right now around COVID. Yes. Like that to me is just one of the greatest ironies ever. That more anxiety and fear actually leads to a greater chance of you dying from COVID. And what's happening?

Rachel Denning (34:08.941)
Lots of anxiety and fear. Yep. So they're scaring the tar out of you, making you believe it's a death sentence. And then when you get it, boy, whoo. And this isn't, again, this isn't foo foo la la. This isn't out there kind of our little opinions or ideas. This is right on CDC saying the second major cause of making it, what's the word? Contributing to COVID death. The contributing factor making it worse, COVID death and severe symptoms is fear. And anxiety. Woo. Which this is just a.

personal antidote. So it's a side note and take it or leave it for whatever it means. I noticed for myself when I had COVID, especially this last time, which may or may not have been the Delta variant because there's conflicting information on if you can actually test if someone has the Delta variant or not. But I noticed a lot of anxiety and fear was part of my, it seemed like increased doom and gloom I was feeling. So.

Which was interesting. Which is true across the board when your body's not functioning well, you're not eating and you're tired and you just have decreased body function. And decreased cognitive function. Yes, the brain starts, it gets dark. It just does. And there's tons of research on that. Dr. Eamon has tons of research on that. I want to jump back and just touch a couple things in my notes here about obesity. It triples the risk of hospitalization. It is increased risk.

particularly for those under 65. So age is a factor, right? And we talked about that above 69 is the biggest risk factor, but below 65, they said the greatest risk factor is obesity, which is really significant, because it gives you impaired immune function and decreased lung capacity. Because of obesity. Yeah, because of obesity. Under the age of 65. Yeah, so that's a big factor. That's a big factor. So anxiety and fear, oh, including in children.

I read some things about that as well. That children that are struggling with it are often obese. Because - Wait, struggling with what? COVID. Okay. Because in the United States, I watched this too, because I worked with youth for a couple of decades, you guys. And so I watched this trend and it is 70 % of adults were obese or overweight in the United States. And youth were quite a bit lower, but the youth have now caught up.

Rachel Denning (36:24.973)
So children and youth are same ratios. About 70 % of children and youth in the United States are obese or overweight. Which is unique to Western cultures in general. Because we've traveled a lot around the world. We've been on five continents. And obesity seems to be a problem that's afflicting mostly Western developed countries, like the United States, England, Australia, for the most part. And we'll talk about why here in a second, too. OK, so I just want to clarify this, because I was a little confused. You're saying that obesity...

triples your risk of hospitalization and increases the risk for COVID in those under the age of 65. Are you talking about just in general the risk or the risk for COVID? No, the risk for severe symptoms and death. Under the age of 65. So these three things that we're talking about, the obesity, anxiety, and the third one is diabetes with complications. Those three risk factors they have found in their research, those are the three biggest ones that are making it way worse.

You're far more likely to be hospitalized and have worse symptoms and to die. So in general, COVID affects those over the age of 69, worse quote unquote worse. But if you're under the age of 65 and you have these three risk factors, you've doubled or tripled your risk. And symptoms, impossible death, right? So then on this anxiety thing, I want to lean into this because I love this stuff. You love anxiety? I love, no.

That's weird. Okay, thank you for clarification. Because I would have said, I love this and you guys, he's a psychotic, he loves anxiety. I love studying psychology. And I love the power of thought. And I'm going to say something a little bit bold here, but I want you to to roll with me on it. Your thoughts can kill you. Whoa, this is showing up in COVID, right?

because they're saying the second risk factor for severe symptoms and death is your thinking, right? Anxiety. It's anxiety. Well, and they said anxiety and other fear related issues, right? So I was just reading from... Fear related illnesses, which is interesting because I think what is another fear related illness? Fear. That's just another question. How does the CDC define another fear related illness? I don't know. I don't know. But just...

Rachel Denning (38:49.197)
It's interesting. It's a lot about how you're thinking and feeling about what's going on. So I was just reading from the Book of Joy by the Dalai Lama and Desmond Tutu. And I even remembered the page number because it stood out so much that there was these two researchers, two women, as I recall, and one of them got a Nobel Prize because of her research. They were studying how stress and when you're stressed or afraid,

or anger plays into this as well, that it releases cortisol into your body. Now, you guys originally, like in our evolutionary process, right, it was, the stress and fight or flight was, it was a momentary thing to save your life, right? It was, it was in an instance where you genuinely are threatened and you're like, boom, it kicks in and you get out of there. Bit by a snake or a tank or a, you gotta move. Sabre tooth tiger. Now, where there, there aren't,

you know, saber -toothed tigers. You can make cortisol from a comment on Facebook. Right. And then we hold onto it. And I keep playing it again and again. And I get angry and I get stressed. I get stressed out because my shoes don't match my outfit or whatever. But you see people get stressed. I work with people. I see this all the time. You see people get stressed about things that, with a different perspective, are like, are not going to kill you. That's not stress.

Isn't that stressful? Right. Whatever take you have on that, they're not going to kill you. But the cortisol that's being released in your body is actually contributing to aging. Oh, that's what you're talking about. Yes, so that's what I'm going right now. And it is, it's a thought, right? So it's really down to the thoughts that create the feelings. And when those thoughts release chemicals in our body, it changes our biochemistry. And this was by Elissa Epple and Elizabeth Blackburn. And it says that...

It wears down our telomeres. Now telomeres are a fascinating little word. Basically they're the cap on our DNA that protect our cells. This is significant. They protect our cells from illness and aging, right? And illness and aging ultimately lead to death. So again, these are important. These telomeres protect our little DNA cells from illness and aging. But they realize, and I'm quoting here,

Rachel Denning (41:14.349)
It's not just stress, but our thought patterns in general that impact our telomeres. Which these two concluded, and I quote, our cells are actually listening to our thoughts. Whoa, right? And there's so many instances, there's so much research out there abounds that the way we are thinking and feeling...

is creating a chemical change in our bodies which is affecting our immune system. By affecting our teloners. Yeah. So it makes perfect sense that having high stress thinking and feeling and they found research found that anger, getting angry can suppress your immune system from anywhere to 40 minutes up to two hours depending on the research, right? So even getting angry or being stressed or being afraid can suppress your immune system. Which...

is ironically now becoming the second contributing cause of death. COVID is anxiety and fear related. And not necessarily just death, but it makes it's a higher risk factor. Yeah. Isn't that fascinating? Oh, this fascinating stuff. So you can literally wreck your own immune system with your own thoughts. Yowzers. And then the third risk factor was diabetes.

Okay, so now I want to jump in. We've been promising this whole time to give you the list of deaths. And now I want to get into, did you want to add something else? No, I mean, we could go on about diabetes itself, but we won't. Much of it is preventable, right? Especially type two. Okay, here we go. So I'm going to give you, these are just general average year over year. They've been studying this for decades. So...

On average, just under 3 million people die of all causes every single year in the United States. It jumped in 2020 to about 3 .4 if I remember right. And there were pretty significant increase. For example, like I said earlier, the heart disease deaths jumped by almost 5%. They said that is the biggest jump in eight years. Right? It's a significant jump during 2020. Heart disease death went up a lot.

Rachel Denning (43:35.565)
jumped by 5%. And that's not heart disease deaths with COVID. Right. No, just heart disease. Right. Yeah. And obviously it's going to play a part in if you get COVID and heart infection. Oh, it's a stressful year. Like that would make sense. Well, but we're closed in. We're eating differently. I mean, there's so many factors. Diabetes went up significantly. Death by diabetes in 2020. Yes, went up significantly. Accidental deaths, which...

Well, unintended death, I think is what they call it. It's actually on the list here. And that's significantly a lot of those were drug overdoses. Right? So they're playing this role. There was a lot of increases in deaths in general in 2020, not all related to getting or having COVID. Okay. So here we go. Heart disease. Number one killer has been for years and years and years and still is, was last year and still is this year. Buy it.

Big time, big time this year. So the average number is, you know, in the 600 and if you average it out 635 ,000 a year, which last year was 690 ,000, okay? It's most common or more common in men, people, and I want you to listen to this. I'm sharing commonalities. Why are we sharing this information? Because this is gonna be significant. This is what really stood out to me when I'm like backing way out and seeing the big picture. And this is our message you guys today.

There are all kinds of things killing us that we need to remove. And in fact, I want you to... Wait, that sounds totalitarian there. Like, you want to just remove... Not force. You want to force people to remove these things from their lives. Well, let's have that conversation when we get through here. Is there ever a justification to force it? But I want you to listen to the commonalities. This is gonna... It'll blow your mind here. In fact, I'm gonna get some notes, I'm gonna jot down some numbers as we go along.

the numbers are gonna add up, it's gonna be fascinating to do this. So, but you've gotta just listen to the commonalities and see if you notice a pattern. And if you don't notice it, I'm gonna point it out. Because it's significant. And this, I think about it, like wait a minute, this totally alters the perspective here. So let's roll on. So we're at 635K, or more last year, but on average, for heart disease. So it's common among people who smoke.

Rachel Denning (46:01.453)
People who are overweight or obese. People who have a family history of heart disease or heart attack and people over 55, okay? Interesting correlation there. Rachel, I love to talk about and geek out about this tendency of you have family history of these things and there's several of them in here where it mentions that. Family history is very often connected to epigenetics. Well, right, so there's a more, I wanna say a newer,

recent branch of science, which focuses on epigenetics. Genetics is this idea of like, oh, you have a family history of heart disease. So you're likely going to get heart disease. Epigenetics is actually looking at, and again, I'm not like a scientist. I don't know all of this exactly, but it's looking at the causing of the causes of actually turning on those genes, which then give you that disease, which you have a family history.

If that makes sense. So, so what happens on a cellular level is every cell, if you think, and this makes sense if you think about it, like in the womb, a baby starts out as like a single cell organism and it divides and divides and divides. And eventually those single cells become every part of a human being. They become ears and eyes and toes and teeth and everything else. And how that happens is epigenetics essentially, where they receive a signal that says, here's a signal.

you're supposed to become teeth. Here's another signal, you become the toes, right? And that still happens in our bodies on an ongoing basis. And so the signals I'm giving my body through food, through my environment, through toxins, through thoughts are turning on epigenetics, which then say, you get cancer or you get heart disease or you, and, but the amazing thing they're realizing is that we have control over them. Like we...

We have more control than we thought over them. Way more control than we thought and we can alter them in our own body and then here's where it gets crazy fascinating. You pass that on to your children. Right. To your offspring. So you pass it on. For good or bad. What? What did you say? I said for good or bad. Yeah, good or bad. So whatever it is, you can alter it. You alter it in your own body and then you pass it on. So if I'm in a poor state, I'm...

Rachel Denning (48:24.077)
eating poorly, I'm in a poor psychological state, so it's altering my biochemistry, and I've got all kinds of cortisol receptors on my cells, and things are off in my life, it's really stressful, or maybe I'm crazy afraid, or I'm just tormented by fear of financial disaster or whatever it is, that can be passed on to your children.

And that sounds kind of weird and crazy, but that's what the science is showing you. It's all there now. It's so fascinating. We're passing on these epigenetic messages and because of the past epigenetic messages we've received or continue to receive from our thoughts, from our thinking, from the media, from whatever else, we're conditioning and training our body to need more of those things like cortisol or dopamine. Which then creates an actual addiction.

Yeah, and so it's affecting this so yeah, we could we could go crazy on this but this this idea of having a family history like it's playing out and They're seeing it played out even that thing you told me about family history of heart disease is dealing directly with epigenetics But you're not necessarily going to get heart disease if you have a family history of it because you can alter alter Yes, the epigenetic messages that are being sent to yourself. Absolutely. Whoa, that was

He just went out there, that was awesome. Okay, tips for prevention. Stop smoking. Eat a healthier diet. Exercise at least 30 minutes per day, five days a week. And maintain a healthy weight. Okay, so wait a second. If we wanted to get into that conversation which you were hinting at for a second, if we wanted to say the leading cause of death in the United States right now is heart disease and the...

one of the leading contributing factors to heart disease is smoking. Don't you think we would have a case for, for mandating no smoking in the United States of America? Well, we're just getting on the first one. I know, but I'm just, okay, just go with one. No, no. Yeah. So, so yeah, when couldn't we, couldn't we, okay. More people die every day by far from heart disease than from, from COVID and from any other cause.

Rachel Denning (50:47.341)
And if the contributing factors are clearly smoking and obesity, well, shouldn't we declare a national emergency? I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm toying this here to put it in perspective. Like, wait a minute, if it's about numbers, if we're really caring about like the biggest numbers, the biggest threat to lives, shouldn't we do something serious about this? Shouldn't we declare a national emergency against?

tobacco and against obesity. And we know the causes of obesity. No, Greg, because smoking's not contagious and heart disease is not contagious. Okay, valid point. It's not contagious. And people aren't deathly afraid of it. Of things that aren't. See, this is the irony though. And you don't die as quickly. This is the irony though, because I, the more you study about...

things like epigenetics, the immune system, you see things like what Wim Hof is doing. If you don't know Wim Hof, like look it up, look up the research that is being done on this human being. You begin to understand that you actually have more control over the strength of your immune system, which ultimately decides whether or not you are contracted disease.

because the world is still... Wait, did you just say... Okay, go ahead. Yeah, well, the world is filled with bacteria and viruses. They're literally all over the place. You can't escape from them. In fact, if your body was free of virus and bacteria, you would die. You have to have good and bad bacteria in your body to even live and function as a human being. So we can't eliminate all of that. And it's actually the strength of our immune system that determines whether or not we...

actually get sick. Now there is so much research on this that if you know the research, I don't think it can be argued. Again, coming back to this idea of like, hey, I think we can all agree on this. Your immune system is your safety. Right. It's ultimately the determining factor on whether or not you actually contract an illness passed by a contagious virus or a bacterium. Wow. Now, obviously you guys, we understand, I can hear some of you right now in your minds going, hey, but some of us have...

Rachel Denning (53:09.581)
You know, my failure is I'm autoimmune, another thing. We get that. But that's more the exception than the rule. Your safety for the most part, and again, there's all this talk out there about safety, this is for safety. Your safety relies in your own hands. In your own immune system. That idea right there has been the foundation of our life. We build everything in our life about it. We never look around and say, hey, you know what, it's your fault.

Like we're always taking 100 % individual responsibility for our own lives and that includes our health. Because we know ultimately it comes back to our immune system. And so for me, I can't speak for anyone else, but I can speak for me and for my family. We are not at risk at all of dying from COVID. I don't need anyone at all to step in for me to protect me from it. Because my safety is in my immune system and it's in my hands. Now again, this might for some people,

based on where they are on this understanding of health and different topics like that, this might seem extreme. But we can only make these statements now because we've literally been studying and researching this for decades. For at least 15 years, possibly 20. Easy 20 because Rachel's dad got ill the day after our very first date and he got colon cancer. Well, no, no, he had already been ill. He got diagnosed.

with cancer within the week of our very first date. He was given three to six months to live. He actually lived two years. And his oncologist said, hey, this is because you have diverticulitis and colon cancer because of the way you've eaten, because of your lifestyle. So that put us on a path from the beginning of our marriage to dig in very heavily to researching health, well -being, immune systems, cancer, all of this stuff.

that's been a part of our journey path because of that. So you're right. So we've been researching it for at least 20 years. And I started when I was 16 going hard. So by the time I met Rachel, I'd already cut out all kinds of junk and junk food and all that stuff. So that's the only reason I feel comfortable making that statement now, despite the politicization, how do you say it? The politicizing of...

Rachel Denning (55:27.373)
COVID itself as a topic, I still feel comfortable making that statement because we have been researching that, experiencing it and living it for so long. Right. Okay, let's keep going. So number two cause of death is cancer and just shy of 600 ,000, just barely shy of 600 ,000. So cancer, it is more common in people of a certain age, people who, here it is again.

who use tobacco and alcohol. Okay, again, we're looking for common denominators, we're looking for patterns. Common denominators of... Major causes of death. In the United States. That are preventable, right? Mostly. So, exposure to radiation, sunlight. Why are we doing this? Because I feel like there's something we can do about it, something we should do about it, and it changes. If we pull back and look at all the major causes of death and look at the actual numbers,

and say, wait a minute, if there's something we can or should do, why aren't we looking at other things? Why aren't we emphasizing those things that are actually taking more lives every year? Why aren't those getting as much or more attention since more are dying? Or at least equal attention, I think that's a fair point. More of dying, but it gets equal attention. I mean, right? It's a fair point. But you see what I'm saying? Like there's something to it. So let's keep going. So radiation and lots of sunlight, chronic inflammation.

Oh man, do not make me go off on that one. Don't make us go off on inflammation. One of the major sources of inflammation, you guys, is sugar. Refined sugar is a major inflammatory. So chronic inflammation and cells do not do well in inflammation. Like I said, don't even get us started. Don't get me started. Okay, here it is. People who are obese and people who have a family history of this disease. Which deals with the epigenetics. So are you seeing...

the patterns. So just with those two, you guys, that's the top two. That's almost, I mean, they're saying it's, it's, it's 1 .2, three, five million people per year. Half of the deaths every year in the United States. So 23 % on heart disease and 21 % on cancer. I mean, not quite half, but close to half of the deaths in the United States have the commonalities of smoking, obesity, family history, which relates to epigenetics.

Rachel Denning (57:52.845)
And um... Alcohol. Alcohol. And inflammation. And inflammation. Okay. Wow. Now... Well, and sugar is a contributing factor for heart disease and cancer. Interestingly. Right? In fact, you can do your own research, or I pulled up a page here of the things they know, like this long list of things, like they know these things are contributing to cancer. They know it.

And they still approve it. Well, we are going to talk about that. I guess what I'm trying to ask is, as a non -geeky numbers person, can we summarize this or do we have to actually go through every one of them? Not yet. No, let's keep going. Okay. Well, I'll go fast. I'll go faster. Okay. So again, prevention, maintain a healthy weight. There it is again. Eat a balanced diet. Quit smoking. Exercise regularly. Quit smoking. Drink in moderation or not at all.

Dr. Amon says even even a little drink of alcohol each day. So in moderation He says creates divots in your cortex in your brain and it limits cognitive function Regular screenings all kinds of things like that. Okay next unintentional injuries. We talked about that It's usually in men people ages 1 to 44. So it's lower risky jobs But this one the only one I want to include motor vehicle deaths. Yep. I'm

unintentional injury. But it also includes in another thing I was reading on CDC, I believe it was saying that there was a big increase of overdoses. So I want to know does something like unintentional injuries include things like medical malpractice where no because what wait, wait, wait, hold on. I maybe this is not related at all, but it's an interesting statistic because I remember reading.

reading one time that it was actually medical, is malpractice the right word? Medical mistakes. That was actually the third leading cause of death. Which would make sense, this goes under accents and unintentional. Medical mistakes came in at like 250 ,000 a year, so it's not even on this list. Whoa. Which included like...

Rachel Denning (01:00:13.229)
the wrong prescription amount for drugs or unintentional mistake during surgery or giving the wrong diagnosis, wrong treatment. Okay. That's a whole other massive thing. So interesting. That's not being brought up or addressed or that's a lot of people. Okay. Next one. So sorry, just for those who might be getting bored with the numbers, I'm going to go fast. Why are we doing this again? Remind us. Well, I'm going to, let me, let me get the number here. So,

Chronic lower respiratory diseases is 155 ,000. So you're not including the accidental deaths in this because you're trying to look at preventable deaths. I want to look at total deaths that are pretty preventable, right? Again, smoking. Women, age over 65, smoking. History of asthma. Lower income households. Now that's fascinating. So they're breathing poor air. Mold, likely, which is very toxic.

All right, go down. Now this one is where I wanted to hit. Stroke. You're like, oh man. 142 ,000. Okay, stroke. Stroke just happens. 142 ,000. Making the numbers here. This was actually shocking to me that stroke is higher, more common among men and women using birth control. I don't know. Okay. Interesting. Wow. That's second on this. As a woman, I never even knew that that was a thing, that using birth control could increase your risk of stroke. Like no one tells me that. You're right. People with diabetes.

Right? Now if it's type 2, there's something you do about it. People with high blood pressure, there's something you do about that. People with heart disease, there's something you do about it. People who smoke. Oh wow. Do you notice that list? We're already down to number 5, 142 ,000. The leading causes of death. And most of that is preventable. So what does it say? Maintain a healthy weight. Exercise more. Eat healthier. Manage your blood pressure. Stop smoking. Drink in moderation. Manage your blood sugar levels back to sugar there. And treat underlying heart defects or diseases.

Right, and then it gets into Alzheimer's, diabetes, right? And type two diabetes is different. And then we'll go to, well, let's just stop right there. So I'm gonna just pull this number just so none of you get too bored with us geeking out here. I'm doing some math now and.

Rachel Denning (01:02:24.429)
Um, wow, wait a minute, hold on. Yeah. 1 .532, 1 .5 million people die every year. Okay, those are staggering numbers. 1 .5 million people die every year. Many, I wouldn't dare say all. Many if not most.

are preventable. And there's common denominators. You heard them. Well, common denominators for contributing risk factors and common denominators for tips for prevention. Yeah, exactly. Smoking, losing weight, eating healthier. Wait, you just put smoking on the prevention. I'm sorry. Smoking, losing weight, drinking some more, exercising only a little bit. Yeah, I'm sorry. You know what I'm saying, though.

which - That's what I wanted to point out here. Which, though, fascinatingly enough, is also directly related to contributing risk factors for COVID. Yes. Ooh, including, here I found this on the CDC, it was fascinating, the vaccine - Wait, now you're kind of jumping to the - I just want to jump to stroke real quick, because I thought about it, I don't want to forget it. It said, here I want to read it - On the CDC website. Because it was so interesting the way they worded it, that -

You have to scroll down. You have to scroll down right here. However, and I'm quoting directly from CDC. However, reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the vaccine. Well, it is specifically the J &J vaccine and what's TTS? I don't know. And a rare and serious adverse event, blood clots with low platelets, which has caused deaths.

So that's a really indirect way of saying, this vaccine causes blood clots. Has caused blood clots. Yeah, has caused blood clots, which has caused deaths. So it's like this indirect way of saying, it's not responsible for deaths, it's responsible for blood clots. And the blood clots are responsible for the deaths. That reminds me of a funny story when I was a kid. My dog went out and attacked a rabbit and it died the next day. And...

Rachel Denning (01:04:47.789)
My grandpa said, oh yeah, that dog killed your rabbit. And my mom was like, no, the dog didn't kill the rabbit. It died the next day. It's just chewing on it, right? It wasn't the dog. Okay, so why are we even talking about this? Why are we bringing this up? And those of you who are healthy and fit and in here and like all this and just considering this, I just want you to wrap your heads around all of this. Zoom way out with us, see the big picture. Like, what is this all about? Try to see it from a non -political...

Yes, take a different angle and a different approach and really start asking yourself like wait a minute. So if if If it was less than 400 ,000 people died in the United States from COVID and Yeah, last year. Yep in 2020 and this is whole time. It's been 676 right so if you if you just look purely at numbers and I get I I can see the other sides of the argument. No, it's not it's something it's a lot.

It's a lot and we ought to do something about it if we can. So we're not discounting it. We can. We definitely can. I think we can. The question, the biggest problem is people can't agree on what we should do. Right. And I think discussing this and zooming way out will actually help us make better decisions about what to do. Well, that always helps you make better decisions. I don't know of a time when that doesn't help you make better decisions by zooming out and looking at it from a broader perspective. Just, it's interesting to me.

that during the same time period, 2020, 1 .5 million people died in this country. So over three times the amount died.

What are we doing about that? Where's that attention? And that's a much bigger problem. If over three times 30 people are dying, and we're really concerned about that, and it's a real threat to our nation, should we start mandating exercise? Should we start making it illegal to be over a certain BMI? Should we make it illegal to smoke or use to buy?

Rachel Denning (01:07:00.269)
Now, and we're going to be clear here, we're not saying we should do that. We are not. I'm just asking those questions. I know, I know, I know. I want to just... You have every right to be fat and to smoke and... And eat a McDonald's if you want to. Yes, and to die a slow painful death. You have every right to do that. Well, I also find it fascinating that there's a 1 .5 million people that died, not because of COVID, but by conditions...

that also contribute to a higher risk of death by COVID. Yes. So, so to me, actually addressing those issues would, would, would address all of the COVID dramatically. So to me, when it comes to something like the vaccine, which is supposedly what this podcast is talking about, but we haven't actually talked about that yet because we're giving the back story, which is critically important. The vaccine may or may not be one of the solutions.

to combating COVID. But more importantly, why aren't we looking at these other factors that are contributing to the deaths by COVID, but are also contributing to 1 .5 million other deaths in the United States? So if the greatest risk factor for COVID is obesity, well, guess what? It's also the greatest risk factor for heart disease and strokes. I mean, there were several other instances there where...

and cancer. What was the, oh cancer. Like those are the biggest problems. So wait a minute. We found a common denominator that if we address that thoroughly and what if that was on the news every single day? What if that was getting the same amount of attention in the media from the government, from leaders, from all kinds of people, religious leaders, political leaders, organizational leaders, business, like businesses now, everyone over a hundred employees has to mandate certain things. What if they mandated a certain weight? Fitness.

Yeah, what if they mandate like... Or a certain diet. Like you've got to be at a certain BMI to work here. And again, we're not saying that's a good solution because it's not a good solution. Anytime you start mandating things or forcing things to happen, that is from our study of history, like we discussed in the last podcast, that is on the path towards authoritarianism and totalitarianism, which rarely, if never...

Rachel Denning (01:09:24.077)
It doesn't turn out good. Have a good outcome in the end. I talked to my buddy the other day, he's a total history buff. And he's like, oh yeah, I've read the instances like that's never pretty. It never turns out good. Right. It does. It's a disaster. All right. So with that background. This is getting long now. Yeah. Let's just hit it quickly. With that background, I want to address this idea and just give it this is again, this is our perspective on.

Well, I could say right now with that information as a framework, I think if someone seriously thought through all of those issues we just mentioned and differing perspectives, that could be a lot of information to help you rethink what you already think about certain things. That by itself. And again, you may come to the same conclusions that you have, whatever your...

political, philosophical, religious conclusions are, right? About the politicized issues at this time. You might come to the same conclusions, but I think those conclusions are going to be more well -rounded and more balanced if you at least consider all of these other perspectives. Yep. That's kind of the point. Absolutely. And maybe if you ended and didn't listen to anything else now, that would be enough. Right. Right. But.

But, Greg wants to... I want to share a few things. Just again, people ask like, well, how do you think about the vaccine? And so with that's the background. How do you think about the vaccine? Yeah. How do you think about it? Okay. How do you... Yeah. How do you think about it? What's the process? Because instead of saying, what do you think about the vaccine? How do you think about it? Because we're trying to learn how to think, not what to think. So that's a good thing. So we've given you this huge, long background about how to think about it.

And other things but I want to address that's we don't come to any conclusions unless we we Think about all of the contributing There's multiple levels of thinking like there's first -level thing second level thinking like all of these different levels of thinking have to go into Coming to any sort of hard and fast conclusions absolutely if there is a heart exactly and then you may not even get to Yeah, I wouldn't know I wouldn't even say we least me you might be different. I don't know that I have a hard and fast

Rachel Denning (01:11:47.789)
conclusion about the vaccine itself. I think it's a very complicated topic involving many complicated individuals. And so many variables. And so many variables. But I wanted to address a couple of things, particularly this idea of it's safe and effective, right? It's interesting even when you stop and you look at those words.

Like my first response was, what does that even mean? When you say something is safe and effective, like what does that mean? Like some people would consider it irresponsible to use such vague terms to a huge audience on differing levels of education and understanding. Well, and that doesn't, that's not like splitting hairs there. I think in any extremely complicated subject, you have to define the meaning you give words. Well, and we see this all the time in our coaching and our counseling. All the time. Oh my goodness, all the time.

in communication with... In marriage? You're like, I say a word and it means something to me and she's like, that means something totally different to me. So in order to have better understanding even in your marriage, we often have to give definitions of what a word means for us. So if I'm like, hey, I really need you to make me feel safe, I have to define what that means for you. Do I go put on my... I go get some weapons, I pull out my knife and guns and I'm a protector and she's like, no, no. No, that actually makes you feel more safe. Right, she's like, oh, I'm not that...

And I come back all armed and I got a helmet on and I'm like, I got you, babe. And I just bought another dog. And she's like, I wanted to feel safe emotionally. And accept my feelings. I wanted to be able to be vulnerable with you and you'd listen and not judge me. I was like, oh, so I can put my gun away. Yeah. So it really is a key component to further and add to.

adequately understanding an issue is to understand the definition of the words being used. Exactly. So that's one of the first things we always ask is when somebody gives some sort of explanation for something, we are always saying, what does that mean exactly? Like define the words. Yep. So when you say those words safe and effective in front of literally in front of hundreds of millions of people and don't really back it up.

Rachel Denning (01:14:08.205)
or define what that means exactly. Yeah, as you're presenting it. As you are using them. You have to know that you are throwing it out to individual interpretation. And depending on where people are at, some of them are going to interpret it in a way that is dead wrong. Right? Assuming there's a wrong. Yeah, assuming. Well, yeah. OK, well, here's an example. I know people who heard these words and they

automatically assumed that the vaccine would prevent them from getting COVID and it would prevent the spread of COVID. Depending on how they defined safe and effective for them. So somebody said safe and effective like boom I'm getting it because I won't get COVID and I won't get sick and I want it'll stop the spread and this will be over like in a couple of months and no more COVID. That's their definition of what safe and effective means. Which may or may not be the definition that...

other people are giving it. We don't know. Nobody knows for sure. Nobody knows. I'm going to safely assume that the people who are speaking know, and I think, again, coming back to you, I think something we can all agree on. I think we can all agree that the vaccine is not preventing people from getting it because people who've been vaccinated are still getting it. Right. And it is not... It may inhibit...

than somewhat from getting it. It might help, it might help, but it's not preventing it totally. And it's not preventing the spread, which we're seeing in countries who are either completely vaccinated or mostly vaccinated, it's still spreading like crazy. I don't know if there's any countries that are 100 % completely vaccinated. I talked to somebody the other day and they said there's a couple of small nations that... Really small ones? Yeah. Because I heard the highest vaccinated ratio was Israel, which was like 80%. Yeah, somewhere around there.

and yet it's new variants are spreading like crazy, like wildfire. So now we're not talking about whether it helps or not, and that may be the definition of effectiveness, but I know some people believe this will stop it, this will be the end, and they're also believing that if you don't do this, you are a murderer. And that's an extreme. Those are obviously extreme cases, extreme viewpoints, of course, but we have seen that out there on social media of people. In fact, I even just saw something of...

Rachel Denning (01:16:32.845)
Some woman who put it in, well, I guess she didn't technically put it in her own obituary, but her family members put in the obituary that it was because of people who were not vaccinated that she died from COVID. Now, again, that's an extreme viewpoint. And in the end, that type of extreme vitriol, I guess is a good word to just...

because I don't think you're making a statement like that from the goodness of your heart, right? With trying to have empathy and understanding of people who have different viewpoints from you. Like, that doesn't help us. That doesn't help us find solutions. That doesn't help us find answers. That doesn't bring us together as a community, a society to solve a common problem that tears us apart. Which ultimately, if we...

We'll just touch on this, maybe we can do another full episode on it. But just touch on the point of any time there's more division and more separation and then you add intense emotions and hatred and you just keep feeling that separation and division, ultimately it leads to some form of civil war. I was in an advanced Krav Maga class this morning.

and they told us about, that just happened just over the weekend, in Atlanta, a group of about 40 individuals went in and they're purposely bombarding, like mobbing police officers with really annoying things to try to get the police officers to react. To pull out a weapon, to fire a shot. They're just doing everything they can to get them to react.

Which, that's like, oh my gosh, that is the beginnings of civil wars and mobbocks. Civil wars, skirmishes, if nothing else. Yeah, exactly, which then it's a tinderbox, just, it just explodes, it's crazy. Okay, but I just want to hit this thing and then we'll wrap up here. I think we can all agree that to declare something safe, we have to unequivocally rule out death and des -

Rachel Denning (01:18:58.221)
harm and damage. Is that... Well, no, I'm going to disagree a little bit because something... I'm going to disagree with you. I didn't even give my point yet. You can't. I'm going to disagree with you disagreeing. Go ahead. Because I would say that we could...

define something as safe that was say mostly safe, right? Because sometimes we're going to say something is safe if it's mostly safe. Okay, now why not use that? Why not? If I'm going to stand up and I'm going to talk to millions of people and say, you guys, this is mostly safe. That's very different than saying this is safe, right? Because if it's mostly safe, is that from Princess Bride? Mostly, right? If it's mostly safe,

That leaves a margin of error for some people to say, you know what, I'm not willing to take that risk, even if it's small. And we allow them to do that. But I wouldn't be willing to take the risk. And I think that happens a lot with almost everything we do in life. Driving on the freeway is mostly safe. But it is also deadly. In fact, we were going to do skydiving, and I did my research.

It's actually more dangerous to drive on an average freeway in the United States of America than to go skydiving. And so I thought, wow, change in perspective, change in perspective. I'm more likely to die driving to the grocery store than I am to die from going skydiving. So I decided to go skydiving. Change his perspective. Yeah. It changes your perspective on it. I was suddenly like,

It's not that risky. You shift your whole paradigm and now you make a different decision instead of skydiving so dangerous I could die. You're like, well, actually you're far more likely to die on in a car accident, which isn't this the point of our this thing? We're so terrified of COVID and it is it is I mean, people are dying. I'm not I'm not discounting that, but three times over three times as many people died in 2020 from other preventable causes.

Rachel Denning (01:21:07.533)
than from COVID. So if you want to be afraid of something, be afraid of that. But let me come back to safety. And I get it though, because at the same time, if someone chose to use the word safe about driving, I don't know that we would argue the nitty gritty about that. Although you could. You could say, well, it's safe, but really it's mostly safe. I mean, it depends on how detailed you want to get. Right. Right. Which in a s -

in a situation like this where it's very politicized and it's very intense, it's very fun of everyone. You do actually need to get into the nitty -gritty to really get a clear understanding. Let's give some numbers and say, you know, if I'm reporting numbers and say, hey, look, this many people died today, but interestingly, three times as many people died today from these causes.

something worth considering. You can't dismiss this. But back to the safety piece. We've talked to some people and they're like, I haven't heard of any deaths from the vaccine or any negative things. It's not been heard at all. So it's interesting. And maybe that is the majority perspective that any reports, whatever, of death or injury from the vaccine are simply conspiracy theories. Right. And they're not. And yet on the CDC website itself,

as of what did it say? September 13th. September 13th. Yep. There have been report 7 ,653 reports of death from people who received the COVID -19 vaccine. Okay. Now again, that's not like 400 ,000 COVID deaths, right? It's a small number. And some people might say, well, that's, you know, that's going to be a natural, that that's going to be worth it in the end for us to all get the vaccine.

And that's a point you could argue. But if no one's made aware of that, for one thing, like many people we've heard of or know, they don't even know that any deaths are happening. I think that's also not fair. Like that's not just to kind of hide that information while emphasizing the other information. So in some ways that's the point we want to make is it should at least be talked about.

Rachel Denning (01:23:27.021)
And not just death, it's some kind of, I don't know how they, I can't remember the word they use. It was some kind of medical harm. And last we read it, it was a good month ago or more, it was over 450 ,000 cases of some kind of medical harm caused by the vaccine. I don't remember those exact numbers because I didn't look it up, but I did look up because the CDC gets that information from the VARS website. Like that's their source.

And I went up and looked on the virus website and they have data from like the 1960s on vaccine deaths. And for most of the period of time, I literally, it goes month by month for, since the 1960s. And I looked through all of it. And for most of the time it was like 10 deaths. The highest one was like 52. Maybe 52 deaths in one month. Right? This is over decades and decades. Until December, 2020, when it jumped up to

Hundreds and then thousands. And so you can look at this information yourself. Okay, that's something at least, that's something that we should at least be aware of if we're going to make a decision like this, that it directly impacts our own health and wellbeing and that of our families. All I'm saying is that information should at least be made available instead of...

portrayed as a simple conspiracy theory. And as though it's not happening. As though it doesn't happen at all. Right. And the last little thing, this one gets me fired up. Because yes, it was approved by the FDA, right? But interestingly, the good people down at the FDA approve all c -

kinds of things, all kinds of garbage chemicals in our food that are known and proven to be linked to cancer and obesity and all kinds of problems. Because that is one of the other challenges. And this ties into not just what's happening with COVID right now and the vaccine. I mean, this is a viewpoint we've had for a while. Yes.

Rachel Denning (01:25:43.021)
In our lives, well, literally 20 years since my dad got cancer. So that's coming home at 21 years in December. One of the things that he discovered and we discovered while we were trying to understand this disease that he had that eventually took his life was that not everything FDA approved is safe for your body. In fact, some of the things that are FDA approved are actually known cancer causing substances. Yep. And they are.

outlawed and banned in other countries or entire continents like the EU. Like they're like, they're a little out of there because it's linked directly to cancer and the FDA puts their stamp of approval right on it. And you know, there's 2 ,500 chemicals in our food that is being put in there. Yeah. And preservatives that are FDA approved. Now, one of the things you found that was fascinating, was that about the oils, the saturated, unsaturated oils?

that there are actually hydrogenated oils. So the US FDA banned partially hydrogenated oils in January of 2015, but they gave them three years to remove the products from the market. Okay, now, wait one second. You're telling me. Wow, this is killing people. You have three years to get rid of it. Something is giving people cancer.

But Dent tells people the company... Or heart disease or whatever. Whatever, yeah. All of the things that lead to the leading causes of death. And then says, oh, but you have three years to remove it.

What? Right? This is doing harm to our people. Make sure it's gone within three years. And I get it. You know, there's a whole process for every Indian. Except at what point are we going to get serious? Because they're getting serious now. Or seem to be, right? But what point are we going to get serious about other things? So just for kicks and giggles here. Why can't we invoke some sort of emergency authorization for something like that? For hydrogenated oils. Hydrogenated oils are causing... MSG.

Rachel Denning (01:27:50.189)
disease, let us, done, emergency authorization to ban it from the country. Not coming in. That's my line of reasoning. Like I, you know, I get it. But my thinking says, why don't we apply that same thinking to other challenges and problems? And I'm in favor of some bans like that because that's not forcing people to work out. It's not forcing you saying you can't smoke, but it's like, hey, let's get.

Let's get these deadly chemicals out of our food that most of the people have no idea are harming them. That's true. It's innocent people. It's not like people are addicted to, well, maybe they are to hydrogenated oil. To MSG they are. And oils, yes. Those oils are deadly. But if you replaced it with something like coconut oil, like most people aren't even going to know the difference. If they're buying chips, they're not going to know. Let's hit some of these right now. So interestingly, you guys, there's a thing, I won't even try to pronounce it, but it's BPA. It's a chemical that's, it's lined.

your canned foods. There's a big move for the BPA to be removed from plastic bottles and stuff, but it's in canned foods. And so it's been linked to cancer. We've talked about this refined sugar guys. Even back as early as 1931, they found sugar was providing fuel for tumors and inflammation. This stuff just, can I make a plea with all my heart and soul here?

You're going extreme here, Drake. Cut sugar out of your life. How can we cut sugar out of our lives? Like, how can we do that? That's just too much. She's kind of in jest, but kind of like, she has a sweet tooth too. No, she does great. I replace sugar. So we replace it. So we use urethra tall, which is sugar alcohol. And our favorite is monk fruit extract. And yes, it is way more expensive than sugar, but not in the long run because sugar is costing you.

enormous amount of it's affecting your brain. And who knows one day research might come out and find those things are actually not good for us either. But at this point, the research is... I guess that's true. We go along with as things progress and we find things out. So alcohol, alcohol consumption lowers your risk. Wait, see alcohol abuse is a leading cause of cancer behind tobacco. So tobacco use is the leading cause and alcohol abuse is what they're calling it is the next one.

Rachel Denning (01:30:11.661)
French fries and potato chips. What? French fries and potato chips? What are you talking about? I don't even know how to pronounce this. Acrylamide is a chemical used in those industrial processes, right? It's also found in cigarette smoke. Whoa. It can form starchy foods like potatoes when they're cooked at high temperatures, right? More research is needed here, but the American Cancer Society supports continued evaluation of this.

in french fries and potato chips. Okay, so we're geeking out a little bit here. Let's just do it fast. Process meets. Again, well all these things. I love to geek out and give you tools because you're like, and people ask me all the time, my clients ask me, everyone talks to me like, okay, what can I eat? What should I eat? And at least we can give them a baseline of like, don't do this. There's direct links here of at least correlation, if not causation to like cancer and health problems. Like you can do something about this and take more control back in your life and.

boost your own immune system and take your own safety back into your own hands. So maybe what the message is here really is that we have this big global scene of what's happening on a world scale or at least a national scale of these top discussion topics of vaccine, no vaccine, mandates, no mandates, like all of this stuff is going on, but ultimately we're saying.

It comes back to you. Individual responsibility. You have individual responsibility to take more control of your life. Right. No matter what else happens. And ultimately, and this is my belief, I think this is your belief, that the only way to solve... It is now that you say it, Ruby. Yeah. Now that I say it, you're taking it on. Yes, dear. In order to solve any of these problems, the polarization...

the division, the politizis, why can I not say that word? Politizization of issues. All of that is solved when we, as individuals within the nation, within the world, accept personal responsibility for our own choices, our own actions, our own...

Rachel Denning (01:32:27.053)
Decisions on what we put in our mouth for one thing as an example, right until we take our own Responsibility for that nothing else is really going to change or make that big of a difference and when we decide to not View others as bad or wrong simply because they have different viewpoint that I was gonna go what if because you're saying the solution is individual responsibility What about those who won't?

What about those who won't take individual responsibility? Should we then force them? And I think you're going there like, well, those who think differently than us and act differently than us, they hold on to those issues. Is there a point where you step in and for the most part, no. I think based on our own life experience, our own research, our own background, no, you can't force people to do it.

And so ultimately, you have to take individual responsibility and that responsibility includes allowing grace and allowing others to have the viewpoints they do. And to make bad decisions and suffer the consequences. True. And if there's going to be a way to change that, it comes from us being able to gain and develop diplomacy, influence, persuasion, inspiration, all of those things. That is what...

Because it's not that you shouldn't try to change someone's viewpoint if it clearly seems wrong or harmful or detrimental to society as a whole. We should try to influence others to gain a different viewpoint. But that should be done, first of all, through tact and articulation of topics and ideas.

and understanding and empathy and respect, viewing someone else who has a different opinion as valuable a human being as we view ourselves, right? Right. That's the only way I see it changing. Right. And preventing, if we don't change it, it could lead to a big disaster. Yeah. And so we want to prevent it. This is preventing the problem by having that grace and tolerance.

Rachel Denning (01:34:47.565)
allowing other people to make their decisions and keeping this big perspective. Yeah. And not eating microwave popcorn. I gotta, I gotta share the list, babe. I can't. So I gotta do it real fast. I would have thought that would be a good place to end. I know it was a beautiful place to end, but my mind, I'm like, I have to share. I have to share, I have to share. You have to share about microwave popcorn. Processed meats, like lunch meats, bad. Mass produced bread has potassium bromate linked to cancer. It's not even like a warning label in California, but it is.

banned in the EU, UK, Canada, and Brazil. Artificial colors, all this food coloring stuff, microwave popcorn has a PFOA that lines the packaging and comes off in there linked to cancer, hydrogenated oils, charred meats, farmed salmon, soda, or pop. A Swedish study found that if you drink one 11 ounce soda a day, you were 40 % more likely to develop prostate cancer.

Holy guacamole. Red meats, pasta, I was thinking GMOs. Okay, that's it, I had to do it. You just had to add that in. I just had to add it. Because why? Because I'm a nerd. So come back now, we'll finish with the principle. Well, but you want to, like, I want you to explain the motivation of why you want to add that. You feel like something like this is at least action you can take. It's in our power, yes. Like you're sitting there going, okay, what can I do today to...

Not get COVID and die. And you're like, okay, done. No more soda, no more microwave popcorn, no more processed meat. Yeah, that's easy. You can start there. And I'm like, hey, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to do everything I can find out to take care of my immune system so that I and my family are safe and healthy from whatever comes. Safer and healthier. Yeah, safer and healthier. And we lean into it and then share this. Like, I'm sharing because I want to inspire people.

I want to motivate people. I want to give them tools and strategies. So many people make their lives so hard because they're using the wrong tools. Or they have the wrong framework. They got the right tool, but no leverage behind it. Or you could be trying to pound in a nail with your screwdriver, or you could use a hammer or somebody show up with a really awesome nail gun and be like, let's go.

Rachel Denning (01:37:13.133)
And I want to give people tool and power like that so we can live exceptional lives. And it starts with small choices, small decisions. Exactly. Exactly. And then it spreads to our kids, our friends, family, and any circle of influence. And it has to. That's the only place it can start. Or we head to an absolute train wreck. So it's exciting. Isn't that exciting? Today...

I hope you guys are just giddy. Maybe you're even dancing right now. Today, you can decide never to drink soda again. Today's the day when you throw away your microwave popcorn and never have it again. That's exciting. And people are going to be like, how did this podcast about vaccines lead to cutting out microwave popcorn? Like, where does that come from? Because it all fits in the big, big perspective. It really is.

Alright, this is good. Thanks. If you listen to the end, holy cow, we love you. When we see you in person, you're getting a big hug from us, because that was a long haul, and allowing us to geek out. And hopefully it made sense in a way. Yeah, just zooming out and altering our perspectives, and you can use that strategy with everything. With everything in life. Yeah. Love it. Love you guys. Reach upward.