#195 Fear is a Traitor & is Holding Back Your Family & Your Life

Rachel Denning (00:10.414)
Fear is a universal emotion. We have all experienced it at some point. It is very real and very relevant. As a teenage girl, Edith Eager was a prisoner in Auschwitz concentration camp. She said that after she was released, once the war ended, it was then that she learned that the greatest prison is the one in our own minds. Fear makes us a prisoner of our own minds.

With all the people we work with and through our own experiences, we've learned that so many of us are living far below our privilege, potential desires, wants, and callings because of fear. Even in our day -to -day life, we're missing out on deeper relationships with our spouse or children because we're afraid of the little things that feel so big, the conversation that needs to happen, or doing the things that need to be done. These things aren't happening because of fear, and so your family life,

is less than it could be. Shakespeare put it this way, our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt. Fear is the greatest of thieves. What fears are betraying you and keeping you from the life you want? And how do you face and overcome these fears? Listen to this episode now for simple strategies to overcome fears so that you can move forward in your relationships.

finances, lifestyle, and opportunities. Learn to live more fully by facing and overcoming fear. This episode is sponsored by the Extraordinary Family Life Formula. Meet live on Zoom every month with Greg and me to discuss powerful tools for creating your extraordinary family life. Plus, get complete access.

to all of our past recordings, coaching sessions, workshops, and courses on everything from marriage to parenting, mastering money, lifestyle design, and more. Click the link in the show notes to become a member of the Extraordinary Family Life formula today and save 50 % with the coupon code.

Rachel Denning (02:16.238)
Hey everybody, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. I am Greg Denning and my babylicious wife is here with me to impart her wisdom when she feels so prompted. But today we're gonna talk about fear. And I wish, man, I wish, I picture you listeners in my mind, I wish we were together and we are gonna do retreats and trips and get together more often and have these conversations in person.

because this one is so relevant and it comes up all the time. But for context, I just finished a book called The Choice by Edith Egger. And that's one we read together in my Habits for a Successful Life class for youth and young adults. And then we started her second book called The Gift. And she reiterates something so powerfully. She said she was a prisoner in Auschwitz as a teenage girl.

And she said, I was a prisoner in the Nazi concentration camps. But she said, after we were released and freed and the war was over, I learned that the greatest prison is the one in our own.

Rachel Denning (03:40.654)
lady was a prisoner in Auschwitz but she said the greatest prison is the prison that's in her own mind and then she loves to say the key is in your own pocket. Right? And it's one thing for me having never been a prisoner to say oh the prisons in your own mind but it's very different for a person who was in a Nazi concentration camp torture death prison to say oh no.

The greatest prison is the one in your own head. And one of those things is fear. There's multiple ways this plays out, and she shares those stories and examples, but fear is one of them. And it's interesting and fascinating to me with all the people we get to work with and our own experiences, how many of us are living far below our privileges and our potentials because of fear? Far below our desires. Way below. Our wishes, our wants. Yeah.

Even our callings. Like some of you might feel this deep spiritual knowing that you're supposed to be doing something, but you're not doing it because you're afraid. And so it can be something huge, like a way of living life, a mission, a message you're to share, and you don't do it. Even like, was it Jonah and the whale? He was like...

God calls him, he's like, man, I'm out here. The people in Nineveh, they're crazy, man. They were skinning me alive, and he like, kill me, I'm out. And he ran, he ran from God. Well, even in a more day -to -day context. Which is where I was gonna also go. Yeah, I think that a lot of us are...

not living up to our potential as parents, as spouses, because we are afraid of little things like having these conversations. I mean, you and I both have coaching clients who it is terrifying for them to have what to us through practice are the simplest conversations, right? Or to do the simplest thing.

Rachel Denning (06:01.005)
But to them, because it's something they're not used to doing and they haven't practiced doing, it's absolutely terrifying. And so their marriage is way below what it could be. Their parenting and the relationship they have with their kids is way below where it could be because they're afraid to have the conversations, to say what needs to be said, to do what needs to be done. So I think that that's how, you know, in a lot of ways it plays out.

just in our relationships, just in our daily life. We're literally living below what we could because we're afraid to do what we need to do.

In my mind's eye, I can see this image of this shriveled up, underdeveloped, unlived or half lived life because of fear. That the scare is keeping us from the day to day and the big experiences. And I love that you pointed that out. It's...

these little interactions on a daily basis would allow, maybe picture like a flower, just allow that to just blossom and grow. But it doesn't, it stays like shriveled and shrunk and it doesn't get what it could. And I think, you know, for some people, like you were talking about, you just mentioned in passing the big experiences, you know, sometimes people, they want that and they think about doing that, but I don't think you could, I would.

In fact, I would say almost a hundred percent here. I don't think you can ever get to that, to the big things until you learn how to overcome the fear in these smaller things. And it starts by having the conversations and then it goes on to even the next level, which is, you know, we've both had coaching clients that they feel called to do something. Maybe it's to homeschool their kids. Maybe it's to move.

Rachel Denning (08:10.669)
Maybe it's to take a trip or to switch a job or to get a new career. Like they feel this calling, but because of fear of the unknown, they just don't do it. And from our perspective, you know, having had the life experience that we've had and worked with so many people where we can point it out and be like, yep, that right there, that's what's holding you back. That's why you're not living at the level you want to live at.

Because that fear of that thing is holding you back. It's keeping you small and shriveled in a way. And what's interesting is we can have so much courage in one area and be petrified in another. I mean, you might be able to go jump out of an airplane tomorrow and be like, well, I don't even think twice about that. Let's go. And yet you're like, hey, you need to have that conversation with your wife.

No way, bro. That is not happening. Like, I just mentioned that to her. Nope. Uh -uh. And there may be just cause for that, right? Maybe there's been reactions that are very unpleasant. Or maybe you feel like, I don't know how to connect with my kids. I don't know how to correct my kids. I don't know how to, like...

do this thing that would help me get to the next level. And so it's fears born of your own insecurities or doubts that you're quoting Shakespeare before you hit the recording. Share that quote. Okay, yes. But I was going to say, or your own incompetencies in that you legitimately don't know how to do it. And that makes sense. You know, I get that. There are times when you...

You literally do not know how to do what it is you need to do. But if we allow that to stop us, instead of moving forward with, well, faith instead of fear, since faith is like the opposite of fear, which essentially means without knowing how you move forward anyways, that's basically what faith is. That when we move forward like that, that's actually when we find the answer.

Rachel Denning (10:34.061)
In fact, from our experience, you don't find the answers unless you step into the darkness, as we like to call it. You have to step into the dark, not knowing what's there, before you receive any further light or inspiration or insight into actually what you should do. Exactly. I had this conversation with my kids the other day, and Kimball was writing, and he wrote this down.

And he said, you can't see every opportunity from the same angle. And then as we were talking through, I'm like, yeah, like, you know, the proverbial couch, if you're sitting on a couch, you can't see the doors and the windows and the opportunities and the paths that are available, because you're just sitting there and you're like, I don't know which way to go. I can't see any options from here. And you know, my response is, well, of course you can't see them from there. Now you have to get up and walk outside before you can see the path. Walk up off.

get up off the couch. Yeah. First of all. And so the couch is just this metaphor for this low lazy state. This inertia state. And you're right, you can't see them. And so we have to step into the darkness. And sometimes you have to go up this path, not knowing where it's going and stumble along and get up around the bend before the pathway opens up and you're like, ah, right. There it is. And you never would have seen it otherwise. Right. And it's very often laziness for sure plays in.

or inertia, but it's often our fears that keep us from getting up off the couch because we're like, I've got a good thing going here. I've got my popcorn. I've got my movie, right? This is good. If I get up off this couch and I go outside, it could be raining. It could be snowing. It could be cold. I might not have any food. And so it's our fear of what we're going to face or potentially face that keeps us in our comforts.

and then that's exactly what keeps us limited and limits our life. It's very interesting to me and I've reflected on this again and again that...

Rachel Denning (12:42.957)
In order to reach for that greater, grander vision that you have, you very often have to go into, it's been referred to as like the desert, maybe, or the wasteland, or the unknown, of course. You have to leave what you know. You have to leave the familiar, the comfortable, and you have to go into a period of not knowing what's going to be happening. But that's the only way to get there.

I think I'm thinking right now specifically of our own little journey we're going on again, we're moving to Portugal, right? But in order to actually get to Portugal, we have to give up what we have. We have to move out of the house we're in and all of its comforts and luxuries and, and routines and systems and niceties and all of those things. We have to pack it all up and we have to put it all away and we have to get rid of stuff and we have to move it and we have to ship it and we have to, it's like,

this long process is going to be a period of months until then even once we get there, we're not done because now we have to find a place to live. And then if we end up buying a place, we're going to rent a place in the meantime, you know? And there's all these unknowns. Well, and what's interesting with this one in particular, there's so many uncertainties that are actually out of our control. Absolutely. This one's unique. If it was like,

if it was a different country or a different situation. Or if we were moving down the street. Right, you were just like, OK, you can, in those situations, you can make a few phone calls, you can arrange some things. Like, OK, we have everything squared away. We have some pretty clear certainties. But with this particular move, like, and these current conditions of the world. Wow, that's on top of that. Yeah, on top of all this. That's the next level here. There's just these really bizarre uncertainties with regulations for international shipping right now. And we're going to be talking about that in a minute.

customs and with even securing properties and how it's done. With applying for the visa. So many unknowns. And the requirements for that. There are a lot of unknowns. There really are. Plus, like you were saying, you know, Russia has shut off Europe from fuel and Ukraine is the breadbasket of Europe. And, you know, so there's even those uncertainties, which as one of your coaching clients was saying, they're like,

Rachel Denning (15:05.805)
One could argue that now is not a great time to move to your heart. And we're like, yes, we know, we realize, we are fully aware. And yet, going back to this idea of calling or being called, like that's where we feel called. That's where we feel moved or motivated or inspired to go. And so we move forward with faith because if we allow all of these fears of the unknown and all the uncertainties and all of the...

the desert wasteland in between here and there to stop us, we'd never go. We'd never do it. And yet we know from experience, that's the only way to create something extraordinary. It's the only way. It's the only way we have been able to do what we've already done with our life. It's because we have already been through that process a dozen times or more. And so,

We have the benefit of having done that already and so we have the experience of knowing what it's like and knowing what the process is like. So it strengthens the faith. Exactly. It strengthens our own faith. The uncertainty and the unknown. And the journey itself because we know that this is what the journey is like. The first time we did that, I mean, we were absolutely terrified and had no clue if it would work out at all, you know, or if we were just complete imbeciles. Right. But over...

time and practice we've been able to see this pattern of like, oh this is actually how it works. There's actually a specific pattern here of how this thing works. You always get that feeling of uncertainty. You feel this calling and then you're facing the obstacles and you have to go through the wasteland and then you get to the other side and everything's better than you could have even imagined it. But the survival brain before, during, and even before the end, it's like...

It's playing out these worst case scenarios and it's creating its own reality of, hey, things could really go bad. And of course there is a good place for fear, right? Fear keeps us from injuring ourselves from harm. Fear has a great place, right? Fear is keeping us from doing something really dumb that would in our lives are injurious. But it also has this place of like, it's just, it...

Rachel Denning (17:26.317)
thinks it's trying to protect you. So it can't really distinguish. It's the subconscious survival brain just like, don't do this because it's keeping you in your comfort zone. It's keeping you from what could be embarrassing. Oh my goodness, don't do that. And it's keeping you from all these things. But in essence, what we're talking about is also keeping you from your full potential and this extraordinary life that could be yours otherwise. And so all along this pathway,

you have to catch yourself and be aware. It's this strange awareness. And a lot of times when I have a conversation with people, they don't realize it's fear that's driving their decisions. Because it shows up as hesitation or procrastination or indifference, happens to be. Sometimes just avoidance. Avoidance, yeah. I just go along, they're like, well, no, I just choose this. You're like, well, did you deliberately, voluntarily, with full heart and soul choose that? Or was that choice?

Just the easier choice. It was the easier choice because what you really wanted was over here, but that's terrifying. So let's just pretend that this easy choice is the one I want. And so you're like, no, I'm choosing this. Well, really what you're doing is you're avoiding this by making a choice over here. So you have to have that keen awareness. You have to listen to the story that you're telling yourself. And again, going back to that prison that Edith Egger talked about.

is that prison in our own heads of where fear's calling the shots and directing the desires. And moving in this direction, you have to stop and say, wait, why am I doing this? Or why am I avoiding that? Is this really, truly what I want? Or am I subconsciously settling for something less because it seems less scary? And one thing I told one of my clients today,

that I think is so important.

Rachel Denning (19:27.373)
is that the survival brain will make up these crazy worst case scenario stories that we often believe. But what we often discount is that it will also make up these equally bogus best case scenario stories. Like, oh, if you do this, nothing bad will ever happen. There is nothing but security and bliss and unicorns and cupcakes.

in this safe place. Right. Right. It tells two stories. And we often get sucked into that thinking, well, I'm going to I'm going to play the safe bet because there's nothing. The safe bet will be problem free. Yeah, it's problem free. It's like rainbows. It's the it's the Truman. I mean, is everything you live in the perfect suburbia. Right. It's the HOA that everyone loves. And there are no problems, right? Right. No risk. And that's a lie.

There are no guarantees, you guys. At the end of the day, there's no security and no guarantees. I think that's such a very critical point right there, because with this reference to your client, from the little bit I know, they're trying to choose between two job option or career options. And two major lifestyle options. Which, exactly, they are connected to different lifestyle options.

One is the safe, seemingly safe, secure, live in one place opportunity that, you know, it appears safe and protected and this option that everything's going to go well. And the other one is a little more uncertain, a little more unconventional. It gives you the freedom that you actually want.

to pursue your dream life of travel, in this case, traveling and living abroad, but it feels riskier. But like you just mentioned, we often believe that one path is problem free and the other is not. The reality, and I remember that learning this lesson early on in our travels, the reality is both paths contain probably equal amount of obstacles. And risk. And risk. Yeah. It's just that one appears,

Rachel Denning (21:53.005)
to be safer, but it's a lie. Yes, there's two lies happening simultaneously. But the truth that many people don't realize is while both paths actually have equal obstacles, and I literally believe that, I think that there's equal amounts of obstacles, one of those paths leads to greater fulfillment and a greater sense of living. And a much better story.

and a much better story. And that's the path that appears riskier. Even though it's not necessarily riskier. It just appears that way. So yeah, that right there is so key that in reality, neither path is problem free, but one path will bring you greater fulfillment. And it's the one you're afraid of, which is odd. It's interesting, huh? As though it's there like a gatekeeper. Because...

If you really want what's on the other side of that, which is what you really want, you have to get past that fear.

And I would say, in my observations at least, very few people.

step onto that path and follow it to be the heroes of their own life story. Because of their fear. Yeah. And so it does stand as a gatekeeper. It does keep people away from it. And that's why many people feel like they live lives of quiet desperation. And die, go to the grave with their song still in them. Right. As Thoreau says. And then Shakespeare, which I was going to quote before. I was going to quote, uh,

Rachel Denning (23:36.141)
Herman Melville. But go there. You can do that next. But like Shakespeare says, our doubts are traitors that make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt. Oh, man. Talk about wisdom. 500 -year -old wisdom right there. They're traitors that take away what might be ours by fearing to attempt. Mm -hmm. It's the.

We're just scared to try.

Rachel Denning (24:09.773)
How much?

Please feel this. How much.

Are you missing out on?

because of fear.

Rachel Denning (24:28.205)
How much have you already missed out on? How much is right there in front of you available for you to take, to have, to experience, to achieve?

but fear will be the greatest of thieves.

and robbers and prevent you from having that if you allow it.

Whoa. And then that quote from Melville, he said, he talked about all the horrors of a half -lived life. And that comes crashing in on us when we don't lean in all the way, when we don't attempt. And what's interesting is we know, it's like there's this part of our consciousness that knows, like, hey, you could have done that better.

You could have done more. You could have been more. You could have handled that differently. You could have made that happen. But you didn't because you were afraid.

Rachel Denning (25:32.269)
Yeah, it's interesting. I've heard Jordan Peterson talk about it in a way as though our future potential almost exists as an entity that we are striving to reach, right? Like we, I mean, we all know you can't touch potential or see potential or talk with it. And yet we all believe it exists and we all know when we're not living up to it. It's so strange.

So it's like it does exist, even though we can't see it. Yeah. It's this spiritual reality. Right. Which is part of the faith piece. Yeah. So it's believing in some. It's not tangible, but it's a spiritual reality that's kind of in there for all of us. And we know. We know there's a best version of ourselves. Right. And we know it's like this internal reckoning system. Like you know when you're coming up short. And so those callings.

So to say, we're calling them callings now as though this is the series manifest. Was that on Netflix? I don't know. Anyways, these callings are, I think, truly guiding us to our potential. It's those things that call to us that help to bring out the best in us. And...

We wholeheartedly believe that God in the universe is constantly conspiring in your favor. And so you'll feel these desires, these longings, these callings, or even opportunities. It's amazing how often opportunities will just land right on your lap. And people are like, oh, no, no, no, no, thanks. That seems a little risky. It was the very thing you were hoping for. The very picket to the things you want. And you're like, oh, no.

Or I've also seen, which kind of drives me crazy, that I have the obstacle and to them it's the sign that, oh, I guess this isn't supposed to happen. I guess God doesn't want this for me because if it was meant to happen, my path would be smooth and problem -free and obstacle -free. And we've just learned that that's not how it works. In fact, the obstacles are there, kind of like we talked about before.

Rachel Denning (27:54.125)
with the gatekeeper, like the obstacles are there as gatekeepers to say, how bad do you really want that thing? And opportunities for growth. In order to have what you really want, you have to become the kind of person to have that. And the obstacle is your method of becoming. So there's another example of the obstacle is the way. The obstacle is the way to you becoming bigger and better and more capable. So you need the obstacle for your growth. But again, this fits back in with the...

The lie, the other side of the lie that fear tells us is that, no, it should be easy and comfortable and problem free. If it's meant to be, it's going to be safe. It's going to be secure. It's going to work out. It's going to be problem free. That's not true. It's a lie. And so, yeah, I mean, it really does drive me crazy when people use that and use God even as an excuse to say, oh, this thing that I wanted, this opportunity I had in front of me.

I guess it's not meant to be because we've seen all kinds of things, but I missed my flight. All right, this happened or that or whatever. Like all of these things that people just use as the excuse of, oh, it's not meant to be. And I'm like, no, that is, and I loved what you pointed out there because I think that's actually the point of why the obstacles are there because you have to become someone different. You have to grow.

You have to improve, you have to change, and that requires problem solving and overcoming challenges and all of this hard work necessary that creates growth ultimately. So how do we overcome fear? And it's not that fear goes away. Although the faith gets stronger and stronger, like you pointed out earlier in our examples, the more often we do it, we're like, okay, no, we know this works.

Yes. So the fears subside and the faith increases. Yeah, but the fears are still there. They're still very palpable. It's just as though you have this sort of knowing of experience, this knowing of having been through the process before, you know. It's like, okay, yeah, I'm still afraid and I don't know how all of this is going to work itself out, but I've gone through this process before and I know...

Rachel Denning (30:17.933)
It will work out. I can figure something out. Yeah. Again, no guarantees. No guarantees. I think that's why I just re -emphasize again and again in this podcast, like, either way, whatever path you choose, there are no guarantees. There aren't. But. Was it Helen Keller that said that there's no such thing as security? Mm -hmm. Yeah. Like, life is risk. Yes.

But interestingly enough, this is the fascinating part to me that while neither path has guarantees, one of the paths, and we're assuming there's just two, there's actually a lot, but one of the paths is more fulfilling. It just is. And more exciting. And more exciting. And more terrifying. Yeah, more terrifying. It is more terrifying. And more emotional. And more intense. Because it requires you to grow and change.

That's ultimately why. And it's more demanding. It's more demanding because it requires you to change. Now the other interesting thing is...

Okay, this is fascinating. The one path encourages you and requires you to change. The other path almost forces you to change. Or punishes you. Or punishes you. When you try not to. When you try not to change. It's almost like you try to choose safety and security and what you get instead is trials and challenges in a different sort of way though. When you, cause when you pursue the fulfilling, challenging, scary path, risky path.

It's like now there's mountains there you have to climb and the mountains make you stronger. But when you pursue the other path, it's like, oh, now you're in a swamp or the valley of the shadow of death or something. It's like this almost this cesspool of drama and trauma and trouble. Yeah. And so it's really interesting. You and I, I think did a podcast about this before that expounds more on that idea, but this, this whole.

Rachel Denning (32:24.621)
concept of choosing your challenges. And so when you choose the one path that seems riskier, it's more fulfilling, but partly because it's more challenging and partly because you're choosing the challenges. You're choosing to pursue that path, meaning you're choosing to take on those challenges. The other one, it's almost like you're trying to avoid challenges and you're trying to secure safety.

and you get trials instead because you need to grow. Right, when you end up being buffeted and beaten by your...

by your underdevelopment and your fears and your worries and your atrophy and the people around you who are experiencing the same thing. And so the trouble just comes in a very miserable form. Right. It's more of like it's inflicted upon you instead of you choosing it. That's a really interesting thing that we're chewing on. Now I know some of you are like, I'm not so sure Dennings, we've.

We've chosen the safe path and everything's been pretty smooth and easy and awesome and been secure. And that's true. You can pull it off. But what's interesting is for the last couple of decades, we've also lived in the most peaceful affluent time in the history of the world. There's never, ever been this kind of affluence. There's never been this kind of peace and prosperity and goodness. And what's interesting is, as you look at the patterns of history, this has been second and third turnings. And those are historically pretty...

pretty smooth and easy. And so if some of you have kind of snuck through unscathed and been like, I don't know, things have been pretty sweet for us. Even that I would question a little bit. I would want to dive in because I think in some ways we're still paying for it in at least if not current building health crises, mental health crises as well. Like there's this underlying current of

Rachel Denning (34:26.733)
stacking that's happening that we might feel like everything's fine. And you might be one aspect of your life is like, no, we've never struggled in there, but over here, it's all the problems pop up. You're right. And they can be ugly and disastrous. But let's say things have been pretty smooth and comfortable. And it's interesting. It's like there's this beautiful idea. And it's so important. It's like we think we're good.

but it's not quite accurate because we've never been really tested and to see if, you know, we've never really given the chance and pushed. We've never been really pushed. So you're like, it's easy to be like, oh, I'm such a good person. Well, you've never been pushed to the brink. If you get pushed to the brink and you still choose it, then you're good. Or you might think, you know, I'm tough, but you've never been pushed so hard, so far to see, hey, are you really tough?

Are you just tough in moderately difficult circumstances? And so there's these times, there's seasons in life, in your life, in my life, in societies, in history, the history of the world. And difficult times are coming. Really, really hard times. You're so pessimistic. I'm the most pessimistic optimist around. No, but tough times are coming. This is just history.

And you're not, whatever, good, tough, honest, whatever, pick your thing, until you've been proven. Right? It's actually naivety. And it's like this kind of childish innocence. I think, oh, I got this. Well, let's see if you have it.

when it all hits the fan. Right. Right. And that's a challenge. So it's interesting. And again, with this idea of there's no guarantees, like when it all comes in and these things, this safe path. And this is one thing that has been brought to our attention through travel and hearing countless, literally countless stories of the people we've met all over the world. Is it at some point or another, all these supposed guarantees or safe paths or securities?

Rachel Denning (36:57.485)
just get annihilated. This is gone, there it goes. And it can come anything from natural disasters to manmade disasters to just crazy things in life. And so as you're going along, like you really have to just stop. And I guess that's part of our message today is like, stop allowing your fears to dictate your life into these false realities that's preventing you from.

really living a whole life and lean into the things you really truly want because it lights you up. And I think you and I, meaning you and I, Rachel, you and I, but also you listeners, I think you also know and we know people who are suffering from these half -lived lives.

And they feel that discontent. And they lack the spark in their eyes and the light and fire in their souls that lights them up from truly living. When we're really living, there's this spark in us. So when we're on this adventurous path, when we're chasing uncertainty because it just calls to us, there's a spark. There's a light you have that goes out when you're just living in the safe path. Wow, that's true. In fact, I find it.

energizing honestly. Like I feel like when we have this adventure that we're pursuing you know it's very deliberate, it's specific. It's like it gives me extra energy to work on it to pursue it like you know I'm I just have more it is a spark it's the spark I've got that's like okay what's next what can I do next but I'm gonna keep going I'm more productive I'm more energized I'm

You just have a spring in your step. Yeah. And it's not absent of fear or discomfort. No, it's not. I want to keep emphasizing that. But there is. There's a spring in your step and a sparkle in your eye. And you're like, let's go get this. Right. And there's uncertainty. And there are failures and mistakes. And things do not work out.

Rachel Denning (39:19.533)
And when we outline some of those things to people, they look at us sideways like, you guys are idiots. Like, why would anyone do that? And it's hard to articulate. It is. There's another way of living that's so worth all of that. And some of you will hear the list of things that you go through, and you're like, no, thanks. I'm out. I'm just going to watch Netflix. Right, because it's easier. And.

I guess one way that I think about it is comparing it to something as simple as a journey or traveling. And just this past week in some ways is a good metaphor because we had a very busy week, you and I. Oh my goodness. Yeah, you're right. This week was insane. Yeah. We were chasing some big adventures and there were so many

There were so many things that went wrong. There were so many little obstacles. And I just kept thinking, oh, this is what it's like. I've got to remember, this is part of the process. Oh, man. Because you go out to do these things, these dreams, goals you have, and stuff happens. I mean, we have everything from our water getting shut off while our kids are home alone, our son getting in a fender bender, me forgetting the keys for me to get home.

Are kids almost getting stuck in New York by themselves? Not almost. All of this happened. They were stuck. They were stuck. And the lady was on the phone. She's like, we're going to hold your kids hostage until an adult comes to pick them up. In New York City. And I'm like, lady? I'm in Maine waiting for them. I'm standing in the airport. I'm an hour away. Put them on the airplane. And all of that plus more happened in.

Well, then we get home to the car you were supposed to take and the tires flat, which you would have been stuck because Kimball with all his strength was just cranking on the lug nuts. So yeah, it was just one thing after another, these crazy things. And I'm like, this is all part of the adventure. And we've learned to roll with it, where before, like when we first started, it would be devastating. Yeah, we were like, no. And especially financially, I'd be like, oh my gosh, this must mean it's not supposed to happen because.

Rachel Denning (41:45.485)
Now we won't be able to pay for it because we had extra expenses that I didn't plan on. Like that was how my mind would work. And now I'm like, you know what? That's just part of it. It's, that's just what it's going to be like. There's going to be the unexpected things that come up that you're just going to have to deal with, pay for, solve, and then move on. And the sooner we embrace that as part of the adventure, right? Like, cause you,

Again, I think it's that lie of fear of like, no, no, like as long as that doesn't work, everything's gonna work out so smoothly. It'll be great. And then when it doesn't work out so smoothly, it's almost like it derails you. Your false expectations get shattered and then you're just like, oh, I hate traveling and adventure. It's so terrible. You think, oh, we must've made a mistake. This was wrong. We weren't supposed to do this. It's costing us more. It's taking more time. When now we know, cause we've...

done it many many many many times. Nope, that's just what it's like. That's par for the course. Exactly. Okay, that cost us an extra thousand bucks. Right. And three things went totally wrong. Exactly. Okay, and we had an epic week where I got to fly out last minute and be a keynote speaker in Denver for this awesome organization. Met some incredible people. I got to go to my brother's wedding and visit with all of my family.

and then I flew up and met my boys up in Maine and had this incredible adventure with them and created these memories now that we'll have forever together and meet these other people and have like really powerful impact on some other people and have amazing gelato. I gotta throw that in there. Found a gelato place in Portland. Our middle daughter stayed home with our two youngest daughters and they had an amazing time.

They got to bond and she got to practice her domestic skills. It's like, yes, things went wrong, but we also grew and improved and solved problems and got better at dealing with challenges. You know what's so cool about this is, and we do this a lot, just as a kind of, this is our - Lifestyle? Lifestyle, but parenting philosophy is our kids got to watch us do this.

Rachel Denning (44:07.757)
We modeled for them how to roll with the punches. They were right there. What was really cool with Kimball, especially, he got to see everything. Even when he calls us and said, hey, I got in an accident. Okay, let's work it out. That was my response. Let's figure this out. And then he gets stuck in New York. He told me later, he's like, what? Like they won't let us leave? Like, jeez. And he was like, I was panicking.

And he's like, you just got on the phone, talk to him, and then they're like, OK, go ahead and get on the flight. And he's like, what did he? He afterwards, he's like, what did you say to her? Like, what happened? Like, we were trapped and she was going ballistic. This lady was going off. She was so irate. And it was like, we were all with her, right? And so he got to see us just solve problems the whole way, figure things out. Let's go here. Well, that didn't work out. Let's do this. And just he's watching me figure this out and solve problems. Right. Which is essentially.

on a smaller scale what you have to do in order to do the bigger things you want to do. I mean these are the same exact skills we are using and going to be using to figure out everything else that lies in our future path of moving to Portugal. Like how do we actually get the visa and how do we you know work out the lease agreement and the residency and all of those things. It is the same process. It's the same thing is just on a larger scale.

And I think it was, who was it that has that quote about doing great things in a small way? Is that James Allen? Yeah. Until you can learn how to do, I'm just paraphrasing now, small things in a great way. You can never do great things in a great way. Exactly. And even interestingly, with the psychology of fear, even on a moment to moment basis, where an obstacle pops up, fear will make you fight. Fight, fight or fleeze, right? So you're going to fight it.

you're gonna freeze and not do anything or you're gonna run off. Right. And you're going to be, I have to tell the story because it was so funny. So we're in the Denver airport, you and I got to fly there together and I had to lay over and continue down to Salt Lake. Okay, so this was our, hold on, I gotta paint the picture. I'm like, this is so perfect. It worked out perfectly. We get to take the same flight, cause she had booked her flight, everything was done and then I got hired to go be a keynote speaker. I'm like, this is amazing. We get to fly together.

Rachel Denning (46:35.885)
We'll have a labor. We'll just sit and have this peaceful connecting time. We'll get lunch together. This is going to be so cute and romantic and amazing. We'll sit in the Denver airport together until you have to go. And as soon as we land, we have a message from our son saying he'd been in a fender bender. And there's no water. Well, wait. First, you got on the phone and you talked to him about it. So we're already like, oh, great. Here we go. Insurance getting to go up, all this stuff.

Then you finished talking to him about that. And he got ticketed because he didn't know how to find our insurance. Then he calls back a few minutes later to say, oh, the water's off at the house, right? And that was because we had just recently purchased the house that we'd been leasing and hadn't switched it over. And we just totally forgot what's everything we had going on. So then we spent the rest of the layover.

getting water. Calling you the local government utility. But this is the funny part about how your brain does this. It goes into flight or flight mode and you're kind of in the survival mode. So Greg actually used, we were eating lunch at the airport. Greg was using my phone to call the water company and he walks away with his phone and my phone and I'm gathering my stuff and I'm like, where's my phone?

I can't find my phone and I'm thinking, I just went to the bathroom and my phone was in there. I must've left it in the bathroom. So then I'm freaking out, running to find Greg. He's walked off somewhere and I can't find him. Cause I was going to say, Greg, call my phone. Cause I left it in the bathroom and someone probably grabbed it. And then while I'm wandering around crazy, worrying about my phone getting lost and thinking, Oh no, why does this happen? I remembered.

You were talking on my phone. And so that's what happens. Your brain goes into this mode of like, everything's going wrong. And starts telling stories. Yeah. Exactly. Oh, it's this, I got stolen, I got taken away, all this stuff. Right. And you lost your phone like three times during that layover. I know. And all the while, I had it. Exactly. It's awesome. But we're telling these funny little stories because I think they are really a good illustration of how this process works.

Rachel Denning (48:53.741)
on a bigger scale as you face these fears and these obstacles and these challenges that if we're not aware of, we tend to just discount them or I don't know if blame is the right word, but we use them as an excuse for why we shouldn't be pursuing this thing. Why this isn't the right path, why it's not meant to be, why we made a mistake.

And often why quote, I can't. Right, why I can't do it. Why I can't do it. So I guess for me, my invitation today is, and I had to do this many times and I still have to do it. We still have to do it. Just pause and say, wait a minute. What am I afraid of? Why am I doing what I'm doing or why am I not doing what I want to be doing? And.

dig a little bit deeper. Some of you, you're gonna have to really lean into your consciousness and realize, man, it is fear -based. Wow, the reason I've been acting this way towards my spouse or towards my kids or towards my work or in our church or community, it's really born out of fear. And then you have to go dig deeper and like, fear of what? And then play out like, what is the actual worst case scenario?

Could I handle that? Now, could I hedge against that? Could I prevent that? And is it something I want so badly that I'm willing to face the fear and the possible risks and try to prevent those risks, right? There's so many things we can do to try to prevent them, but is it worth it to me? Do I really want that? And then lean into it. Identify what it is you want, what fears are holding you back. And...

And I guess our messages from our own experiences and then working with so many others is there are unbelievable amounts of meaning and fulfillment and joy and excitement and adventure on the other side of your fears. And on the other side of the obstacles. And I think that's part of our message as well is that when things go wrong, when you start pursuing that path, that doesn't mean it's the wrong path. In fact,

Rachel Denning (51:17.517)
Often, I think it's a clue that it is the right path. And it's your path. It's almost like this recipe that God and the universe are putting together to help you become your best. Yeah. Exactly. You're like, no, we can. God sees who you can become. And he's like, oh, I got this. I'm going to put this here and this here. Or just allow it to happen. It's not like he's up there manipulating it all. But he just allows it. It's just the universe is working its magic so you become.

the best version of you. Exactly. And we're like, no, I don't want that. That's horrible. But I'm thinking right now of this scene from the movie Evan Almighty, has Steve Carroll, and he's like Noah, and Morgan Freeman is God, and the wife. I don't know who plays the wife, but she had prayed for opportunities for their family to get closer.

And then this whole crazy experience happens where he's called to build an ark, right? And it's really funny show, but there's this scene where he's in a restaurant and the waiter is Morgan Freeman, who's God, and she's sitting there and she's upset at her husband because he's acting crazy. And he basically says to her, you know, if you pray for an opportunity for patience, do you think God is going to take away all of your problems or is he going to give you the opportunity to practice patience?

And same thing with her situation. If you're praying for the opportunity to be a closer family, well, you're going to be provided the opportunities to grow together, which often involves this struggle and strain. So like we're talking about, you know, we think, oh, I don't want that. I don't want my son to get in a fender bender and our water to get turned off and all this while we're traveling and our kids to get stuck in New York. I don't want that to happen. Can't we just have a smooth trip? Exactly. And yet.

It's because those things happen that you grow in capability to be able to handle things like that happening.

Rachel Denning (53:24.461)
There was a time when all of those things happening in the last week, I would have been a mess. I would have been crying. I would have been practically depressed. I would have been so upset by it. And yet. And you go into the fear reaction. You become super reactive. Oh, now this. Night trips ruined. Now that. And your brain starts playing out worst case scenarios. Oh, everything's gone. Which happened a little bit, because I thought my phone was lost and all these things. But.

I was able to, I've gained the ability to recover from negative emotion, which is one of the keys to happiness as they talk about in the book of joy with the Dalai Lama and Desmond Tutu. And so I've, I've increased in my ability to recover from negative emotion and I was still able to have a great time. Like my time wasn't ruined. My trip wasn't ruined. Our whole experience wasn't ruined because of these things happened. We faced them, we dealt with them and we moved on. End of story.

I can't get over how valuable this is to model for our kids. Absolutely. If obstacles came up and their only purpose was for examples for our kids to see us work through obstacles, it would be worth it. And you're right. It was quite a big deal to get the kids up there. And when they got up there, we're like, OK, let's go. Hop in the rental. Let's go out on an adventure. Went out to the lighthouse. Went out to the lake. Right. Jumped in the freezing cold ocean.

It was amazing. And yeah, we just moved on. It was like, you know, it could have been this, oh, trips ruined. Oh, in fact, and like we didn't let it phase us in the slightest kind of just laughed about it. It was awesome. And I think it is critical to point out that, yeah, it could have been ruined if you didn't already have the ability to handle that situation in an effective way. Like you've already gained those skills. You could have very, very easily gotten on the phone with that lady.

who was irate and just reacted and been disrespectful and rude and annoying and they would have been stuck in New York, like legitimately. My only option would have been to turn around and fly back. Exactly. And then at that point we're like fly home and everything's lost. Right. Which is often, you know, that's what happens for a lot of people because they're thinking tens in that way and they're already in their mind thinking the trip is ruined, it's over.

Rachel Denning (55:48.781)
And instead of searching for the opportunities to solve problems and how can we make this work? It's that negative worst case scenario thinking of like, oh great. Yeah, I could have when he calls, he's like, hey, we're stuck. They won't let us go.

And I could have gone into fear mode. I could have, so I would have wanted to fight or flee or freeze. And Jim, can you let me talk to her? And man, when she on the phone, she was ready to fight. She was in fight mode, man. And all I did was thank her for being so diligent in her job and for caring so much.

And man, she just melted right there. I said, OK, well, OK. Look, this should have never happened. Oh, man, yep. Somebody in the Atlanta airport made a mistake. It's so sorry. And I was praising her, thanking her. And within a couple minutes, she's like, OK, I'll put your boys on the flight. They'll be heading your way. Right? That's just like, you got to figure this stuff out. But again, that's a tiny experience where fear or frustration could have ruined it.

And then it turns into a big experience where fear and frustration come in. Right. Absolutely. So that is, I think that's a key to, key point to emphasize is because some people might be like, that doesn't happen. It doesn't get solved. It doesn't like, it just actually turns into a very horrible experience. And yeah, we've had that as well. But with practice, we've learned how to get even better every time at

dealing with these situations and solving them and finding solutions that work better. What was interesting, and I guess you guys were just telling these stories for illustration purposes, hopefully it's instructive. As soon as he said we're stuck, I immediately started running through solutions. Right? Like, okay, who do we know? How do we do this? What do we do? And I started heading back to the airport. I'm like, okay, I could jump on a flight right now. I could be back in JFK in an hour.

Rachel Denning (57:57.133)
and we could still be up here tonight or tomorrow morning and still make this work. I started running through solutions. Like, who can I talk to? How can we talk to this? Like, you just start, because of practice, you start figuring out. And so instead of panicking, oh no, my boys are stuck in New York City by themselves. I said, OK, what are the solutions? And it's just, again, it's practice working through these things. Which I think the natural tendency for our brain without practice is to go.

It's like we're doing the same thing. Our brain is going through the same process, except we tend to think about the worst case scenario. Well, that means, you know, we're going to have to go back and then go home and the trip's over. I think that that's the norm for a lot of people is to go into that mode, but you have to practice and have experience in order to go into the other solution mode. So it's a similar brain process.

But it has different outcomes. Love it. Love it. OK. So listeners, thank you for listening. Thanks for being here and part of our community. Will you please spend some time today and this week? Do it alone first, and then talk to your spouse, and then talk to your kids, have a conversation around this. But really get clear about what part fear is playing in your life. And it could be anything from little day -to -day decisions, or patterns, or habits. You might have a whole lifestyle built around previous fears, fears you had from your childhood.

I mean, you might be like, we are not a dog family. But the only reason you're not a dog family is because you had a traumatic experience when you were seven. And you're still operating on seven -year -old software, right, and programming. And you're like, wait a minute. Man, this whole time, we've not been a pet family because I had one bad experience with a dog when I was a kid. Even though my child is begging me for a dog. Yeah, my kids are begging me for a dog. I'm like, no, we don't do dogs. Dogs are dangerous. Why? That was old programming. So it can be anything like that.

any lifestyle thing, any family culture, family dynamics, the reason you haven't traveled or moved or started your own business or tried homeschooling, like on and on and on. I think if we sat down and I do this to my coaching clients, I think if we sat down together and really started going through things and this is openness and awareness, you'd realize like fear has had a pretty significant governing factor.

Rachel Denning (01:00:23.533)
I'd be so bold to say in your life, right? Because I think it's true for most people, if not all people. It plays a big, big role. I think it does play a role for all of us. It's not whether or not fear is impacting your life. It is. It's to what degree is it preventing you from moving forward? Really living. Yeah. Oh, I love that. So the first step is awareness. Write them down. Think through it. Why are you afraid? What's the worst case scenario? Play it out.

And then face it. Practice facing. Do something every day or every week at least where you practice facing these fears. And the more you practice facing these small fears, you realize it increases your faith and decreases your fear because you realize, okay, it's not near as bad as you thought it would be. And even the worst case scenario is like, okay, whatever. And sometimes it's just these lies, these fake lies on both sides from fear. Fear is a liar, man. Fear is a liar in most cases. And again, it...

there's a good place for fear. If it's really keeping you from something that's dangerous or risky or injury, great, we should use it that way. It's a good part of our lives. But if it's just stopping you from really living and really growing, then dismiss it. Face it, get rid of it, and...

Get it out of the driver's seat. Put it in its proper place and you drive. And let positive, you know, let fear be a counselor, not a controller. Yeah. All right, love you guys. Reach over.

Rachel Denning (01:01:56.589)
you