#209 How to Get Your Kids (& Spouse) on Board with Charts & Systems (+ Why You NEED Them Even if You Think You Don't)

Rachel Denning (00:10.99)
Hey everybody, welcome to this episode. Today we are coming to you from Willick in the Austrian Alps. It is a beautiful little town with a river running through it that was part of the supply route from the Adriatic Sea to Vienna and other major cities in Europe. As a result, it was bombed heavily during World War II, but it's since been rebuilt. We received another question from a mom who is interested in joining my family charts and systems course and community.

She had a question in response to an email I sent out about the power of systems. In the email I said, as a mother of seven children, my life seriously changed forever once I learned how to finally get organized. So when moms tell me that they don't have a system for chores or study time, I'm like, say what? I get it. Some of you don't like systems. You'd rather live free flowing and in the moment. I was that mom too, about 10 years ago. But then I discovered the incomparable power

of having family systems and it changed my life and my family. Systems bring sanity. Systems teach responsibility. Systems provide accountability. Systems empty your plate so you can focus on the things you want to do as a person. Systems help you to become a better parent. Systems help your children to learn adult skills. She responded by saying, this email sounds great about systems, but here's the question. Since I have made tons of attempts at making systems that work.

How does one get one's children on board? It works for a little while, but seemingly not long. Or maybe it doesn't work at all. I feel pretty tired of trying out other people's systems just to have them not work for us. Does your system product include how to help with motivation and cooperation, et cetera? Also, does it help people who have a hard time following other people's systems? Because I think that may be why I have struggled. If you've ever felt similarly to this mom, then you don't want to miss this episode.

In it, we explain why systems are everything. You are already using systems, they just might be ineffective ones. Learning to use effective systems will transform your family life. We'll expound on why, and most importantly, how.

Rachel Denning (02:25.006)
How do you get your kids on board? And how do you do it without damaging relationships? How do you motivate them and get them to want to cooperate? What do you do if and when the systems stop working? We also explain why this happens and that it is completely normal. And for those of you who believe you don't want or need systems because you prefer to live in the moment or go with the flow, I get it. I used to be that person too. But we'll explain how effective systems actually bring more freedom and that you are

actually being restricted and limited by your ineffective systems and they're keeping you from doing the things you really want to do. If you've ever felt frustrated by the systems or seeming lack of them in your home and family or have wondered why your systems and charts quote never work or how to get your kids and spouse motivated on board then listen to this episode now.

Thank you so much to those of you who have recently left reviews on our podcast. We really appreciate it. And you're helping to spread the message of creating an extraordinary family life.

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We truly believe that happy, extraordinary families start with happy, extraordinary, thriving parents who in turn raise happy, thriving children. Together we have a positive impact on our communities, which leads to better nations and a better world. You make an impact by becoming the best version of yourself as an individual, spouse, and parent, and then inspiring and guiding those closest to you, your spouse and children, to become their best selves. This is how you change the world. Thank you so much for listening. If you're not already, make sure to follow

Rachel Denning (04:19.312)
our travel adventures on Instagram. You can find us at worldschoolfamily or at greg .denning.

Rachel Denning (04:35.246)
Hey everybody, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We're your host, Greg and Rachel Denning.

beautiful Austrian Alps right now like surrounded by these picturesque snow -capped mountains. It's gorgeous, clear.

Glacial River running through town and we're in this old town the building we're in was is 400 years old was bombed during World War two. Well, yeah, we learned we learned this morning a guy a technician came over to the house this morning and he was just Volunteering all kinds of awesome information that we're in the old town. It's 400 years old But then during World War two, this was the train depot through here goes, you know into Vienna and Germany, but also down to the sea and into Italy and

So.

It was a supply depot and the train line. So this whole area just got completely bombed out and so had to be rebuilt in the 50s and 60s. So anyways, it was fascinating to learn all this history and being in a place like this with all kinds of long history. And it's just, it is an absolutely gorgeous, gorgeous place. It's called the Willick. Willick Austria. It's such a great place. Okay. But we want to talk about today. You guys have sensed and felt the

Rachel Denning (05:55.472)
The chronic frustration of chronic... What is it? How do you call it? Chronic... Chaos? Yeah, it's chaos. And ineffectiveness.

where you're struggling to get things done. You just have a hard time doing the things you want and need to do. You're struggling to help your kids get things done specifically, I think. I mean, it's obviously all that too, but this specific frustration, which is answering a question we received, is about getting your kids on board. And specifically, getting them on board with charts and systems. Because I have a whole course on charts and systems, and people are signing up, or they want to sign up, and they're asking me.

these questions and they're like, well how do you actually make this work? Because just because you make the chart doesn't mean it's going to work, right? Now we actually answered a question about that last week in the group. But, so it's this ongoing frustration of...

Do charts actually work? Do systems actually work? And if they do, do you have to make your own system? Can you use other people's systems? And sometimes it just feels like they stop working. And so we want to talk through all of that because there is a lot involved in all of that. Yeah, and even the idea of systems really, because we use that word a lot now and it's kind of, it's part of our philosophy and framework. And so we'll kind of dive into what it even means.

But I really want to make sure that we feel this that it's palpable for all of us. I know I felt it. I know you felt it Rachel and and you guys were listening. I'm sure you felt that frustration of wanting to get some kind of predictable consistent outcome or result or wanting to desperately needing to bring some kind of order and

Rachel Denning (08:01.166)
Neatness. Yeah, right organization organization cleanliness just where you feel good in your environment and about yourself with relationships everything and you also feel like you are progressing like you're trending upward through life where so many of us feel like we're stuck in this rut.

just going around and around and around. And we're stuck in our stuff like we're surrounded by things and disorder and chaos. Inside and out. Yeah. Yeah. So the emotionally and physically. Exactly. Yeah. And so your relationships reflect it, your environment reflects it and you feel it. Well and I...

I love the analogy that you love to use with your coaching clients because I think it's very applicable to this situation and it's why systems are so important is you talk about the runway. If you want to take off in life, say your marriage, say your parenting, your family relationships, your lifestyle, your business, your career, anything you're trying to work towards achieving, it's so difficult to take off when your runway is cluttered.

with crap and that's usually how most people are operating they have a runway covered with stuff and they're trying to take off with something and they they can't because they can't kick

They can't get enough speed to get into the air. And so, you know, when people sign up to do coaching with you, you're usually helping them. They're like, oh, I want to take off and do my business. And what ends up happening is you say, okay, that's great. But guess what? You've got this, this, this, this, and this all clearing the runway. We need to clear that out first before you can even start to take off. And that's...

Rachel Denning (10:02.19)
It's an exhilarating and frustrating process because you see the first obstacle right in front of your metaphorical airplane and you're like, ooh, that's right in the way. It's been there for a while. And we clear it and you're like, yeah, let's go. And you're like, well, wait a minute, look just beyond that. There's another one. You haven't even noticed that one because you've been blocked by this one. You couldn't even see it. And we often find that there's quite a few of those.

But the good news is you start clearing them out and man, you feel the momentum and the exhilaration of really picking up speed and moving towards your dreams. Well, and the reason why...

we have a systems and charts course and why we talk about it so much is because there's there is a direct connection we've learned through studying and through experience that when you can learn how to order your environment and bring order to the chaos it also teaches you how to bring order to chaos in everything else so you it's almost like you can't achieve the other things until you learn how to achieve

order and structure in your own environment.

And Jordan Peterson, of course, talks about it all the time and he's very famous for talking about clean up your room. Like if you want to have more responsibility in your life, if you want to be able to do more, achieve more, feel better about yourself, all of these things, you start by cleaning up your room. And what that means is you look at the immediate environment that you're living in and you clean it up. You organize it. And so that's essentially what systems and charts are about. Systems bring sanity. They teach responsibility. They provide accountability for your kids.

Rachel Denning (11:46.64)
And I know, speaking from my own experience and having heard it from other people, you know, who are like, oh, well systems aren't for everyone and you know, I just like to go free flowing and I'm like, okay, like I get that. I used to totally be that person of I'm just gonna go with the flow and whatever's happening in the moment, you know, that's what I'm gonna be doing.

And while there is value in that, especially the part about being present, for me, my life completely changed when I finally learned how to bring order and structure through systems and charts. I mean, it changed everything. It's allowed us to...

whatever it is that we have accomplished, that's played a major role for us. And what you often end up finding out through that process is that it actually brings you more freedom. You thought before, oh I just want to be free. I don't want to be confined by rules and routines and structure. But really, you're a slave to that. You are a slave to your own chaos and your own lack of organization. And when you finally are able to order yourself and order your own

environment, you actually have way more freedom than you knew. Then you didn't even know you were missing out on that freedom, but you are. I want to drive that principle home hard because in a very real way, we can't be fully present. We can't be fully free and we can't be useful to humanity.

If our lives are a chaotic mess, we think we can, and we think we want to. You mentioned all three of those things in what you just said, like we want to help in our community, we want to serve in our church. Okay, there was a gigantic earthquake, two of them, right in a row, last night and this morning over in Turkey. And so I'm...

Rachel Denning (13:53.902)
Like paying attention to that, seeing if there's an opportunity to go and help and serve. And so it's on my mind. And I know you people listening, I know you have huge hearts and you have these servant hearts and you want to help and you want to serve and make a difference in your family and your community, in whatever, schools, churches, you want to make a positive impact in the world. Your impact, your ability to serve and love and help is...

really limited by the systems you have in place in your life. And whether it's more order or more chaos, your ability to be present, to be free is limited. And you might not think so. You're like, no, I'm just free. I'm gonna do whatever. But then you're like, yeah, you can't even find your running shoes, man. You don't even know where they are.

Well, and a very concrete example for me, I guess maybe it's not concrete because it's actually mental in my head, is that...

when I was trying to live this free flowing life of living in the moment, well what ended up happening really is I had all these open tabs in my brain. And it's a good analogy, you know, we all know about having tabs open in a browser and you have all of these tabs, hundreds of tabs open, but that would be happening in my brain because I didn't have a system for writing things down or organizing them or setting reminders or putting them on a calendar. I didn't have a system for any of that. And so it was just in my head and your

and

Rachel Denning (15:28.398)
Even though you don't necessarily realize it, what happens when you're trying to keep all of those tabs open in your brain of like, don't forget to do this, don't forget to do that, remember this, do do do do do do do do do. Your brain, it's like a computer and it's using all of this, I don't know all the right computer terms, but it's like all this memory or processing, you know, it's using all of that energy trying to remember everything. And I remember just feeling so, almost like, ah, ah, ah, I've got it.

to remember all of these things and when you have a system that works you're able to close those tabs because you know you've put it in a system that's going to remind you at the right time. I literally have reminders on my phone that say oh do this thing today and I don't have to now keep it in my brain and I'm actually like you were saying I'm actually able to be more fully present because I'm not constantly thinking of things I don't want to forget because I'm just storing it in my head. And that's like a subconscious thing the brain's trying to

remember all the things that need to be done. So you don't even have to be super conscious, like consciously sitting there, I need to remember this, I need to do that. Your brain subconsciously is trying to remember all of those things that need to be done. And what that creates, what you described it perfectly, what it creates, and you guys, you'll know this, I bet you've experienced it and I guarantee you know people like she's just describing. It just creates a chaotic person.

that's just kind of all over the place. Oh, gotta do this, oh, gotta do that, oh, gotta do that. And it's hard to even have a conversation with them. You can't, hey, let's just sit down, let's have a deep conversation. They can't even stay in it. Well, because if they think of something, they feel like they have to act on it now because they have no way of.

Recalling that at a later time, you know if if you and I think of something we have a system We make a note in our phone and then set a reminder. So it brings it up So we get to let go of it in that moment We get to be like done and move on and just being right there in that moment and actually enjoying it And it makes you when you're able to do that. It makes you a better spouse. It makes you a better parent It makes you a better lover like everything is able to flow more freely because you're not your brain is not trying to

Rachel Denning (17:43.472)
store all of that information. That right there is a simple powerful side effect. So powerful. And so a system, some of you might be like, wait a minute, what is a system? What are you guys talking about? And sometimes we just have these default systems. Well, like you said before, we all have systems. Like everyone who's listening right now, you have systems, they just might not be effective.

So it's not whether you have a system. Or in some cases, your systems genuinely suck. Yeah. Sometimes they are sabotaging. But no matter what, you have a system. Just like no matter what, you have habits. You can't escape from it. It's happening. It's going on. It's just whether or not they're actually effective or if they're ineffective. Right.

And it's important to start recognizing what your systems are, whether they're just kind of default systems or subconscious systems, or you picked them up from family or something you saw or experienced. But you just have to notice in every part of your life how you take care of things and how you do things is kind of a system. So, you know, where...

Let's pick laundry. Laundry is an easy example. Or just clothing in general. Like where do you keep your clothes? Well, okay, shopping. Where do you buy? What do you buy? Why do you buy?

then where do you keep them? How do you keep them? How do you wash them? How do you care for them? Everything that has to do with clothing in your life has a system. Some of you have very effective clothing systems. Some of you have very ineffective clothing systems. The same with money. Money is an easy one. Oh, go ahead. I just want to add to this thing because it is something...

Rachel Denning (19:35.726)
You just see all the time on whether it's on Facebook or you talk to any mom especially if you have a large family the whole the complaint is piles of laundry piles of laundry there's always always always always piles of laundry and I Constantly am asking myself seriously. I have seven children. There are nine people in my family I've never had piles of laundry never because one thing we don't buy too many clothes for our family to I've taught

my children how to do their own laundry. From really early ages. They get it, they take it in, they wash it, they take it back, they fold it. Okay, like where are the piles of laundry? And then I have someone else in the family who washes everything else. They wash my clothes and your clothes and they wash the towels. I mean, okay.

Yes, we have a pile of laundry. It's usually one, maybe two baskets, but it's not like mountains of laundry. They're taking care of like, they're only in a pile because they're in the process of being folded. They're working through the system. You're right. Gosh, you're bringing back all these memories. As a kid, as a little kid, I remember mountains of laundry and it was just a chaotic mess. We couldn't find anything. It was dirty. Then it got washed and then we still couldn't find it. It was clean. And there was always a mountain.

And then finally my mom would just explode and Saturday morning everyone's going through this mountain of laundry like I hate clothing. Let's just get rid of it all. It was like this terrible chore. Right. But you're right in our whole married life that that's just never happened because we had a system for clothing. Which going back to this whole idea of buying clothing and obviously this part of it hasn't been from the beginning of our marriage but into our marriage we started realizing oh you know what we should buy clothes.

that are not just cheap crap. So then you care about them more and you take better care of them. So investing in better clothes that cost more actually is part of the system for reducing mountains of laundry. I think one of the reason people have mountains of laundry is because it's a lack mentality and they just buy more and more and more cheap clothing that they don't really care about. And they accept free clothing. Like every day the dog comes out with free t -shirts and we're like, nope. Yeah, we're like, no, that's a cotton t -shirt, nope.

Rachel Denning (21:54.672)
We don't wear comment t -shirts. Yeah. So yeah, you go through and again, that's part of a system, how you acquire things and then how you take care of them and then how you get rid of them. So again, these are big, easy examples or systems for every aspect of your life. Another obvious one is money, how money.

what you do to acquire money, how money comes in, what you do with it while it's in your position and how you get rid of it and how you organize and track it. Same with food. What food you go out to get, how you get it, how you get it back into your house, the quality, what you do with it while it's there and how, what you eat. And then like there's these systems for everything. And if it's off, if you're shopping on the candy aisle and the chips and crackers and junk food,

food aisle and you're in there buying junk and your pantry is just full of junk food and you're okay here's another one man this one just kills me I still call me whatever you call me I am shocked I am shocked that McDonald's is still in business when I go past fast food places and there's actually people in there still to this day I stop and I'm like

What the? People still eat that crap? Like, what? Don't they know? Like what? And the irony is there's been a McDonald's in every city we've gone to. Every city we've been to. All over the world, man. They're everywhere. And they're packed. And I'm like, and like donut shops.

So what just because I'm like I do my research and I wrote I don't just call me simple But I do my research I'm like, oh that stuff's bad for you. I'm never eating it again because it's bad for me Why would I put anything that's bad for me in my body like done and then I walk past a donut shop I'm like what that that place is full Don't these people know any people still eat donuts?

Rachel Denning (23:56.558)
Like, what in the world? I literally still get shocked. You're just so extreme. I get shocked. Well, but what I was going to say is that all of the results you have in your life, and you might think, well, I don't have any results. Well, you do. Look at your life. Whatever your life is, those are the results. And primarily, they've been produced by your system. Exactly. So if you want to change what's in your life,

If you want to create something different, you have to create different systems. And that's...

Essentially all we have done to create our extraordinary family life, which we love to call that because it is extraordinary We've just created systems that actually produce those results And and there's obviously some overlap between habits and systems, but for the most part systems are supporting habits Yeah, in fact, I would say and especially if you read something like atomic habits by James Clear You can't have positive habits unless you have systems that support them. In fact, that's how they happen You develop positive habits by

developing systems that create those habits. So in the case of like, let's say you're overweight and out of shape.

You have some habits that are creating those results, but I guarantee you have some systems that are creating those habits that are creating those results. So that's what we wanted to dig into today is like getting your systems dialed in. So your systems actually support your success instead of sabotage or success. And I want to make that real clear distinction. You have systems in your life that are sabotaging your success, and you probably have some systems in your life that are supporting your success.

Rachel Denning (25:38.48)
supporting your success in different areas. And we specifically received a question asking about getting kids on board with the systems and the charts and how to motivate them and how to keep them involved. And if it's possible for you to adopt other people's systems or if you just have to create your own and why it seems like systems stop working.

Or never worked originally. We've worked with so many people and sometimes you'll have people say, wow, I've created so many systems. I've created so many charts. I've done all these things. And we're like, okay, well, did they work? No, they never worked. Do you try other people? Well, no. Other people's systems don't work for me either. And they have to stop and say, well, okay, wait a minute. If your systems don't work and other people's systems don't work. For you. It's.

It's not the systems. It's a you problem here. And that's true for the most part. So I say that lovingly, but bluntly, for the most part, it's you. It's on you. And that's especially true when we're talking about parenting and systems for children. They have learned those things from you. Well, and...

I think especially in those cases. And this has been true for me and this has been true with anyone that I've worked with or that signed up for my course. If the systems don't work, it is mom's fault, pretty much. And that's hard because that means the burden of the responsibility falls on you. Anytime my systems stop working, it's my fault. Because part of the system requires,

accountability and follow up and it's like this whole other job of managing, it's kind of like project management or managing a team, right? If you were running a business and you're managing a team, well, you're responsible for making sure the things are getting done that are supposed to be getting done. And that doesn't mean that you have to be nagging or...

Rachel Denning (27:51.214)
following them around, micromanaging. It doesn't mean any of that. And it definitely doesn't mean you have to do them all yourself. Exactly. And so a lot of people think, oh, well, I just want to set something up that's totally hands off. Well, no, that's why you hire like a maid or something. You hire an adult who already knows how to do the things that need to be done. That's a very different thing than having systems in your home that help your home to run more smoothly and help your kids to learn responsibility and help them to learn accountability.

There's a whole other machine that's working in that case. And that does require you to be a part of it. You're a cog in that machine and you're actually the linchpin. You're the most important piece of that machine. Exactly. And it's almost like you have to create the system and then, and this is probably a step most people miss, you have to create a system to ...

keep the system you created. Keep it lubricated and running. You've got to keep it going. It's like maintenance on a car or something. Most failures are in execution and consistency and accountability, just keeping it going. You have to get out of the inertia and you have to get out of your old chaotic system into a new one. It takes some effort initially, but man, the runway metaphor, like ...

Once you get going, it's so much easier. Once you get that thing off the ground, then it's easy to stay on top of it. But again, most of you have so well, and to keep it working and all that stuff. Everything's better once it's going. But it's the internal chaos and the chaos in other areas of your life that's preventing you from really getting dialed in and keeping it dialed in.

for the long haul. So here's one of the things that people, that moms often ask me about or have questions about. They think that if they make the chart or the checklist or, you know, create the system, that then, like they've done the hard work and they're done. Now they just have to put it up there and their kids will do it. And I love to explain that actually,

Rachel Denning (30:09.582)
In a lot of ways, creating the chart or the checklist or whatever, that's for your benefit.

It's like you were mentioning, the chaos in your mind. It's a way of ordering that chaos because part of the problem with not getting things done, whatever it is, if it's chores in the house or whatever, studies, if you're homeschooling, part of the problem is that you don't have a clear vision or picture of what that looks like. And so putting it into a chart is a way of ordering that information and having a clear vision of what the expectation is. And as we talked about before in a...

of audio that we did answering a question, we said, Archilochus, he said, you don't rise to the level of your expectations, you fall to the level of your training. Creating the chart and making that, you know, taking that chaos and ordering it into something visible, that's putting up the expectation. Like this is the expectation.

But the actual hard work comes after that when you have to do the training. Your children fall to the level of the training, right? And so the chart is the expectation. It helps you to get clarity about, okay, when I tell my kids, clean the house, well, what does that mean?

A kid doesn't know. No way. They have no clue what that means. Clean your room. They don't know what that means. They literally need a checklist. It means this. Make your bed. It means pick up the clothes off the floor. It means sweep. You have to be so specific. And so creating a checklist is making it specific and visible and concrete. It's very clear expectations. But then you have to go through the process of the training, which means this is how you make the bed, right? Like this. This is how you.

Rachel Denning (31:54.48)
you pick up the clothes, this is how you fold the clothes, this is where you put the clothes, that's all the training. Because it's so cute. They'll make their beds and put the clothes away and they'll be like, I did. And you're like, whoa, okay. We have misaligned expectations. We're going to clarify here what it means. And that process takes time and training. Exactly. So we have to remember that, that just because we made the chart, like we're not done. I'm sorry, but that's the beginning of this whole process.

And even when you when you kind of tell them about it or walk them through it, it's still not done there. You have to keep up the accountability and the training and the training. And that is on you. And you have to create a system to be able to do that, to bring order to your mind and your life. Again, like we talked about before, you have to be an asset in your own home.

Long before you ever even dream of being an asset outside of your home, you've got to have your stuff dialed in so you can actually help others be consistent and get positive results. I remember reading in a business book about running a company.

and he was talking about training your employees and he said it takes a minimum of six months to train your employees for any new program or whatever that you're implementing. And that is 100 % true with kids, if not too little time, right? It's at least gonna take six months of training for them to be able to adopt and run a system, right? And of course this is all age.

dependent because they're all different ages and different maturity levels and this is a constant work. Welcome to parenthood. Welcome to parenthood. You had kids. This is what you signed up for. And then the other thing is... And even if you said, I didn't know that this is what I was signing up for. Exactly. Too bad. You signed up. The kids are here. So dadgummit.

Rachel Denning (34:01.678)
lean in and level up and let's go. It's like the thing you say about habits. If you think it's hard to develop good habits, try living with bad habits for the rest of your life. It's the same thing. Horrible. If you think this is hard, try living with the bad habits and the bad systems you have for the rest of your life. Exactly. It's chaos. Yes. Thank you, Rachel. If you think implementing good systems is hard, just try dealing with your bad ones. Yeah.

That's going to be brutal. And that's why people come to us and they're complaining or they're struggling with things and they want solutions.

These are the solutions. Implementing and creating systems. Now, the other thing people will say is like, well I did it and then it stopped working. Well, that's because just like on your phone. Because you stopped working, that's why it stopped working. Okay, that's a part of it. But the reason why often, it's not just for that, although that plays into it. Just like with your phone or just like with your computer, you have to keep updating it.

If you don't update your phone or you don't update your computer, it literally stops working. At some point, it just won't function anymore. My phone, just last week while we were in Vienna, I picked it up and it was totally dead. Nothing, no response whatsoever. And you had to take it into an Apple store in downtown Vienna and they, you know, fix it, but I hadn't updated it.

You have to update those things. And so it's the same. It's the same with systems and charts. Like you have to update them, especially as your kids get older or the family dynamics change or as they always are. I think, yeah, I think it's fair to say that every six months at a minimum, family, entire family dynamics have changed, right? Because family life is dynamic. It's not static. It's not like you fix something and you set it and it never changes for 10, 12, 18 years. That's not true.

Rachel Denning (36:01.008)
It's constantly changing. And so you have to constantly be updating the apps. And so very often I will be...

saying, oh wow, something's not working here because look, we have some laundry that's not getting done. What's off here? What's changed? And sometimes I'll realize, oh, the person who is doing the laundry, he's actually away for the summer, working on a farm. We need to replace him in this system and get someone else doing the laundry, right? So you've got to make changes and adaptations according to family circumstances. Or in our case, we're like, oh, that was three countries ago and five different Irvings. Well, right now, yeah.

We have we have a pile of laundry and we're like well we haven't had a washer for two weeks So now we have to create a new system to find a laundromat and and again We've we've learned to do this and so this is this is system strategy on steroids in our life because we have to find a new system in every new place right that's one of the challenges of traveling yeah Which is actually awesome?

It's a whole other level. It's tough. But you want to test your systems? Start bouncing around. Go wander for a little bit. Be nomadic. Go be nomadic. And you have to figure it out. You have to get agile as a cat, man. And you have to move it. And sometimes it's infuriating. And it just doesn't work. But you learn to think differently, act differently, make decisions, figure things out. So if you guys are just at home,

You got it easy, man. What are you talking about? It's easy. Let's go. So look through every aspect of your life and your systems will affect your system. So everything affects everything. So one system that you're really trying to get dialed in and maybe it is, maybe you have the chart up, you maybe have the expectation, maybe you're doing training, but it's just not working. There's two main things I want to really drive home.

Rachel Denning (38:02.477)
Number one will be, it'll be sometimes that other systems are preventing that system from working. And so an example might be.

you're trying to, well anything that requires like energy and vitality for you to be really present, engaged, is gonna be a struggle if, let's say, your health and food and fitness systems are broken. Because, or sleep, like your sleep systems, right? If those are off, you're just gonna be exhausted. So you're not gonna have the energy you need. You're not gonna have the vitality you need. You gotta be fully engaged for maybe a home education system that you got totally dialed in, but you're having a hard time.

hard time focusing. Your kids are having a hard time focusing. You're having a hard time keeping your eyelids open. You can't engage mentally and you're just spent. It's like, well, yeah, because your evening system is off and so your nighttime system is off, which means your morning system is off and your health and vitality energy systems are off. So those other systems literally are just leaving you so depleted that you can't really execute at your potential.

and that other system that you might even have dialed in. That's one reason why these things often fail. The second one is, and we've talked about this a lot other places, is you just simply haven't raised your standards enough. You keep tolerating things that are substandard. And that is the thing that I've seen again and again and again over decades and across continents, that if you keep your own personal standard low,

then the system will never actually really take root because you keep tolerating it. You allow it to happen. But when it becomes so important to you that it's non -negotiable.

Rachel Denning (39:57.741)
I promise that you will figure out a way to make that system stick. And so if you've been trying systems, and we hear this all the time, like, well, I tried a system with that, and I tried to do this thing, and it worked for a little bit, but then it didn't. And always I'm like, well, we gotta look at your other systems and see if they're sabotaging it, and we have to look at your own standards.

How much do you really care about getting that done? Right, let's pick cleanliness. That's an easy one that we can wrap our heads around. If you set up a system for cleanliness, but it's always just chaotic and dirty, well...

you just don't have the right system in place or the right standard in place. When you have a high enough standard, and again, you can't be, you can't be like anal about it. You can't be mean about it. You can't be like OCD about it because that gets really unhealthy and creates resentment and all kinds of other problems. But if you just maintain a high standard, like we're going to, we are going to be clean, neat people.

At least 80 % of the time. At least. And you have a standard there like, no, I'm just not going to tolerate that of myself or my family. And again, you don't have to be a dictator. You don't have to be a tyrant. You don't even have to be mean. You can be so pleasant and jovial and say, whoop, we don't allow that.

Hey, we don't allow leaving food and plates around the house. Well, and in some ways this plays out, you know.

Rachel Denning (41:28.653)
We'll be up, we'll be watching a movie or something on a Friday night and that happens. You're having snacks, you're having a good time and we go to bed and it is a mess. But we don't tolerate it as in it doesn't last the next day. When we get up we're like, okay, let's clean this mess up, you know? So that's kind of - And generally it's even that night, like, hey everybody grab your stuff, at least put it in the sink or up in the counter. Yeah, but then you've got dishes in the sink and everything. So it's not like, again, back to the - And first thing in the morning you take care of it. It's not like, nobody's going to bed tonight, it's midnight.

because we just finished a family movie, but nobody's going to bed until we clean up everything. It's not bad, you don't have to be like that, but the next morning you're like, oh, look, there's a mess. First thing we do is we clean it up because you can't, this is something, I think your mom used to always say that I actually love, she said,

You can't make a new mess until you clean up. Actually, that's not how she said it, but you can't make a new mess until you clean up the first one. So you've got to clean up the mess you've already made before you start another project. And so that's kind of this idea of if you just tolerate that, if it's okay with you, if there's a mess everywhere and then you just add more mess to the mess that's already there, that's kind of the, the, what you're talking about, I think with the toleration, you have to stop tolerating them. They know we're not going to make cookies.

We're not going to have breakfast. We're not going to watch movies. We're not going to whatever until this mess gets cleaned up. Exactly. That right there is a system. Yes. And that, I mean, here's some concrete examples, right? When that level of toleration is low, that's how somebody ends up as a hoarder, for example. Or with just some dilapidated...

whatever, clothing, building, house, car, whatever, it compounds into a big mess. So if, if like you can't, you, maybe you have this closet or a garage or a storage unit, you haven't seen the back of it for years. That's a perfect example of tolerating that kind of chaos.

Rachel Denning (43:39.309)
If you can't even remember what color the back of your closet wall is, because you haven't seen it in that long, that's why. And so you might be able to, it's kind of like, well yeah, it can happen momentarily, because we're not going to be crazy about it, but it doesn't carry on. Like this stops right here. And that is genuinely, it's just a matter of standards. That's all it is. It's standard.

Say in my own personal standards, I just don't tolerate that. If, well here's another example, like if you can't park your car in the garage and you want to, where's your standard? If it's a high standard and you want to be able to park your car in the garage when there's just clutter and crap everywhere, then you gotta rewrite the standard. But if you chronically are wanting to park in the garage but can't, then it's because your standard is too low.

Getting a system in place to keep the garage organizer, the closet organizer, whatever else it is. Beautiful stuff. Okay, so then the next, I think the last thing we just want to address is getting, how does one get one's children on board? And she says it works for a little while, but then seemingly not long term.

which we already addressed. One of the reasons is you have to keep updating. You have to update the apps. You have to update the systems. You have to update the charts according to the changes in the family. And you have to raise your standard. My answer there is like, okay, your standards too low. I can tell if it's not working long -term, it's cause your standards not high enough. And you might have other systems that are sabotaging. Right. Cause here's something I have absolutely noticed when it comes to family life. Essentially my children will do whatever I tell them.

tolerate.

Rachel Denning (45:30.061)
If I tolerate them being on devices for 10 hours a day, that's what they do. If I tolerate them making messes and not cleaning them up, that's what they do. So it requires effort from me to not tolerate those things and say, no, that's not acceptable. You have to do this. No, that's not acceptable. You need to get off the device. Even if that bothers me because now you're going to be wrestling instead of sitting there quietly staring at a screen, I'm the one that has to be making the calls.

And so as long as I continue to tolerate certain behavior, that's what my children are gonna give me. Now, again, it's effort for me to not tolerate those things. It's effort for me to say, no, you need to clean up. No, you need to do this. No, you need to wash your dish.

but that's the only way it's going to work. Because your children aren't going to do that on their own. They're not. They're going to learn it from you. So if you don't tolerate it, then they'll no longer tolerate it. Exactly. But as long as you do tolerate it and expect that they're just going to do it anyways, well, it doesn't work like that. It is never going to work like that. And, oh man, this is an entirely different episode. The way you go about...

expressing that and enforcing that. Yeah, you don't have to be an intolerable person. Yeah, exactly. You think, well, I'm not going to tolerate that. And some of you, like, here's another system. It's like how you communicate your communication systems and your relationship systems, like your investment. So I can just hear some of you in my mind here. I can just hear you saying, yeah, but my kids don't listen.

Like, well yeah, there's other systems there. It's a whole other topic, but there's systems there where you don't have influence with them. And so then you try to enforce this system. You're like, well, I don't tell everyone, my kids keep doing it anyways, and I keep telling them and they do it. And then you revert to maybe what you know is like yelling or spanking.

Rachel Denning (47:31.565)
Usually just yelling, there's a lot of yelling or grounding or something like threatening some kind of manipulation. Like that doesn't work either. It actually doesn't work. It's just manipulative and it creates resentment and more problems. And as soon as you're not around that, it goes away. So again, around all these systems and strategies, getting this dialed in. So when you tell them the expectation and you follow up with them in a pleasant way, they're like, Oh, I get it.

My parents, they mean business here without being mean or unpleasant or resentful. You want your kids to love and admire you and appreciate you, want to be around you, and then when you ask, they listen. And then you fall through, and they fall through. Well, which I think this actually ties in perfectly with answering this question of how do you...

get your children to be motivated, how do you get them to cooperate? Sometimes, and I know we've talked about this before, but I think it just happens way too often, it's very often that the children are receiving all the rewards without having to do the work. And we think somehow nowadays that we're mean or bad parents if we take away the rewards and privileges.

because they don't do the work. And so I see even, this is even happening now with adult children. They're in their 20s, but it starts when they're in their, you know, a young child and in their teens, they have full access to internet, they have full access to all the entertainment they want, all the music they want, all the video games they want, all the food they want, and then when we ask them for help,

around the house, they don't want to do it, and so we do it anyways. Gosh. And they still get all of those things. So parents are literally providing everything their child could ever want or need, and then wondering why they won't help out around the house. Well, because guess what? Those things are privileges, not rights. And they need to be earned through work and cooperation, not just given freely.

Rachel Denning (49:43.021)
And so I think a lot of times that's kind of what's happening. Your children don't have a motivation to do something. It's not gonna be natural. They're not just gonna naturally want to clean up or exert effort to do something around the house. It's just not, it's against human nature. But the reason why any of us are motivated to do anything is because there's actually a need there. You're motivated to work because if not, you're gonna be out on the street or they're gonna turn off your heat.

But if that doesn't happen to your kids, if they never get anything turned off, why should they work? What's the point? Why should they care? So you have to make it realistic. You have to create kind of this little miniature realistic world in your family and you've got to be the mortgage lender or the internet provider or the electrician and say, hey, you didn't pay your bill.

Meaning you were supposed to do this and you didn't, so I've got to take this away. That's just how it works in the world. I loved teaching that lesson to our kids because they'd be like, well, I wasn't feeling well, I don't have it. And I'm like, hey, if I went to our internet company right now and be like, hey guys, I just don't have it. And they're like, well, internet's off, buddy. Or I'd go to the grocery store and be like, hey, do you guys mind if I get groceries this week just on you? Because you know.

I wanted to buy a TV instead. You teach the kids like... Well, it happened perfectly for us because we actually, we had been leasing a house that we then ended up buying. And somehow in all the mix of things, we switched utilities into our name except for the one that had been...

No, they had been in our name except for one had been in the name of the leasing company and we didn't think about it. And we went on a trip and the kids called saying there's no water at the house, right? They didn't, the company didn't care. They did not. They did not care that, oh, well we just bought and we forgot. We didn't know. They don't care. And our kids are home. They need water. And like, hey. And they're just like, well, pay your bill. If you want the water on, pay the bill. It was like so cheap. It was like 40 bucks or something. They're like, no, we locked it. We put a lock on it and the guy would.

Rachel Denning (51:59.375)
out there in a couple days to take the lock off. Like what? So it's this real life example and we have to do that in our own home. There are real world consequences and if you as the parent are not providing real world consequences for your kids you're doing them a disservice. So if they're not doing your chart and system well they probably don't have real world consequences because trust me.

In our house, if you don't do what you've been asked to do or you don't do what's on your chart, there's a real world consequence. And you don't get access to your device and you don't get access to the internet and you don't get access to food sometimes, you know? And I have to keep reiterating here, like this is done pleasantly. It's done with diplomacy. Sometimes it's done with it can be firmness. It is firm. It's not like we're all smiles and rainbows. It's not mean though, because I mean, I see so many parents yell and scream.

and mean and assault their kids. And it's not personal. Yeah. We never make it personal. It's just like, no, sorry, this is just how it is. This is just how the world works. It's nothing to do with you and me. It's just how it works. Yeah. That's such an important principle.

One more quick thought on that. If you want your kids to be motivated, you have to be motivated. If you want your kids to cooperate, you have to be cooperative. If you want your kids to listen, then be somebody who's worth listening to and say things that are worth listening to. It's so much falls back on you and who you are being.

And again, that all falls back to then your personal systems and strategies. So like be whatever it is you want your kids to do. And it's such a powerful principle and practice. Okay. That's awesome. Love you guys. Thanks for listening. Um, go through every aspect of your life, especially the ones that are chronically troublesome and

Rachel Denning (53:58.893)
notice a what system do we already have in place that we maybe aren't even calling a system and don't even recognize this system. What system do we have in place that's just not working?

and what system can we create and implement and execute on that would create a different outcome. And again, it takes practice. That whole thing Rachel was talking about, like getting the idea out of your head onto paper, that actually takes practice. Like the first time you're like, how do I actually articulate what I'm envisioning or what I'm thinking? It takes practice. So practice that and then set up systems to implement your systems. Set up systems to keep

your systems going. And again, when you get systems that work and you work the system, man, it transforms every part.

of your life. Well, that's actually there is one more thing I want to add because this is important. Part of the question that we received was asking about using other people's systems, right? Like, do you can you use other people's systems or do you need your own? And the answer is actually both. It's really that way. I think the only way you can learn how to create systems is by learning from other people who've done it. You have to model them, but then you also have to adapt because every person is different.

Every family life is different. Every situation is different. There's so much variability. It's not one size fits all. So you do need to learn from other people and take what they have done. But I think...

Rachel Denning (55:34.349)
Probably I would say 100 % of the time, but maybe 90 % of the time you're gonna be adapting it to your own situations and depending on your child's personality and their you know what motivates them all children are motivated by different things some are motivated by money, but some are motivated by you know something else food or toys or One -on -one time or you know it you have to figure out what your child is driven by because that's also going to be an intrinsic part of the

this whole, the motivational aspect of it. Like they need a reason to do it. They need some sort of quote unquote reward for doing the work. And so ultimately, yeah, you need to learn from other people. So figure out what systems they've used, but you are gonna need to adapt it. You have to make it personalized for your family. And I gotta throw this in here.

Try to see beyond, do some really big thinking here and try to see beyond just getting the outcome in the moment. And zoom way out to see like who are my kids becoming. Yeah, we can set up a laundry system and make sure the laundry is never piles up again. But will my kids resent that?

Will they resent us? Like how is this going to affect our relationship and who they become? And the reason I'm saying this is because I can think of two instances where I got to see some family systems up close and the systems worked.

But who the kids were becoming in the relationships between pre -kids and parents didn't. And in both instances, it was people who were influencers and were sharing their systems. In fact, a lot, quite popularly.

Rachel Denning (57:43.277)
and they were promoting their systems, even selling their systems. And when I got to see it up close and meet their family, meet their kids, I was like, yeah, you know, they're getting the thing done, but at the expense of the relationship and the becoming, I could just, like the resentment was palpable.

It was this complex system and it quote worked, but ultimately didn't. Right. And so I want to throw this in here. There is a way to have a phenomenal relationship with your kids and to raise genuinely happy whole world -class kids who's become superb adults and have effective systems. Well, and I'm so glad that you mentioned that because

It can be easy for us to focus so much on the system that we forget about why we're doing it and what's the point and the point is not just to get the thing done while that's a benefit. The point also is to help you develop this human being who is your child. And so if it damages the relationship in the way that it's done, yeah, then it's essentially not worth it in that case. Or even damages the well -being of the kid. Gosh, I can't give any specific examples or anything.

thing but but I just you could just see like okay this system you used yeah it got that result but man it didn't turn out into a fully developed person it was sad to see and then it just always made me kind of just flinch and cringe and feel bad because they were on stages just promoting hey do this do this do this I'm like oh man

There's bigger picture detriment there. So find a system that whatever the system is fitting in for the result you want immediately, it also fits into the big tapestry of who you want your children to become and the kind of relationship you want. Just remember the big picture. Okay, love you guys. Share this with friends, family, colleagues. If you like it, share the episode and leave us a review and go work on those systems.

Rachel Denning (01:00:00.557)
today, shoot us more questions. If you're interested, grab that. Rachel put a lot of work into the Systems and Chart course and it's awesome. It's so helpful. Tons of resources there. The systems are everything. Your life is held together or torn apart as the case may be, or collapsing. The amount of order or chaos you have in life, everything in your life really comes down to the systems and strategies you have in your life.

Love you guys, reach out for it.