#219 How to Get Your Kids to Do _________ (Homework, Chores, the 'Right' Thing) WITHOUT the Battle

Rachel Denning (00:10.894)
Welcome to another episode of the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We are your host, Greg and Rachel Denning, and grateful you're here. Coming to you. I'm grateful for listening. Coming to you from Turkey. From Turkey! Still in Turkey. Oh, man. And we are having the time of our lives, man. We love Turkey. Awesome. We went to a beach yesterday that I think is one of my all -time favorite beaches.

on the planet. Now ironically it's one of the only sand beaches on this entire coast that we've been to. The rest of them are rocky. Well they're pebbly. They're pebbles. Pebble beaches which is fascinating. And this is endless sand that's tied to a gigantic sand dune. Your favorite beach. And then yeah this one we went to yesterday and then at the top it's got like a pine forest so it goes up this hill and then there's this little pine forest.

And then to top it off, it's next to some like 2000 year old ruins that are spectacular. And it's a turtle beach where all like massive turtles come in during their season and lay their eggs. Wow, I mean this place is spectacular. And we, the older kids and I, Kimble and Aliyah,

I've been doing something we've been talking about for years and we're getting our SCUBA certification in the Mediterranean Sea, in Turkey, through broken English and charades. Which, you know, you don't have to speak a language when you're underwater anyway. So, oh man, it's awesome. We have just been having an absolute blast. What a place, man. What a cool thing. We're just...

We wake up every day and we're just like, this is unreal. Like this, well, one day I'm trying, like, I can't believe this is our lives, but I am most impacted to think that this is our children's childhood. These are the memories they'll have for the rest of our lives, contrasted to the memories I have of my childhood that I'll have for the rest of my life. It's like, we all hold onto those memories for the rest of our lives. And this...

Rachel Denning (02:32.238)
this exposure and experience and introduction to history and to life and culture and language. Well, and okay, and the language and geopolitical things, because there's lots and lots of Russians here, many of whom fled because of the war with Ukraine and things that are happening there. And so like it's real, it's right there. And you hear these stories.

And, okay, I'm glad I just remembered this. Our scuba instructor a couple months ago was living down in south eastern Turkey right next to the Syrian border. In fact, his hometown is right on the border. And I was like, hey man, you been to Syria? And he's like, many, many, many times. It's so amazing, right? He grew up down there. And his whole area got rocked. Just absolutely.

devastated by that earthquake. He was there when the earthquake happened. His building shook like crazy and kind of... I mean, he said it was something like 80 to 90 percent of the buildings have been

Like they're uninhabitable now, because they didn't fall necessarily all of them, but they broke and cracked whatever they're ruined. So they all, I mean, these massive populations, they can't live there anymore. His building didn't fall, but he was with his son. He was with his 10 year old son and the building where his ex -wife and his son's mother was collapsed and she died. And the building.

where his mother and father and brother were living also collapsed and they died. And he just left everything there and brought his son here and he's starting over. And I got to sit there with my teen children and hear his story and they got to hear his story and be exposed to all of that, which was so powerful.

Rachel Denning (04:41.006)
and heartbreaking. And then he kind of philosophized about it and talked about his experience because it wasn't that just his family died, but tens of thousands of people died. And he's like, it was so strange because it was just random chance. My building didn't go down. And so I like, I was so relieved to survive with my son. Like, oh my gosh, we made it. Like, how did we make it? It's amazing. It's just chance.

And so many people died so he says the effect was different still devastating but different because it was a mass Casualty instead of just his his family well, and I I thought it was so fascinating what you were telling me is that While it's tragic and there's a lot of grief there like

There's also a lot of gratitude because he is still alive and so it's kind of a very interesting mix of emotions. He kept saying things like I just kept thinking my 10 year old son made it. My son made it. He survived. We made it. It was a weird experience. So then he starts, because I love talking to people and there's so much you learn from people. And when you first meet him, you know, it was like broken English and

And all Turkish people smoke a ton and drink cheating non -stop. Oh, he's smoking like crazy. Oh my goodness. And so, and we don't know him. We're just getting to know him, right? And so then I turned and he was just, they're not earning a lot of money. And so I'm like, I wonder what he's doing. And he's a very, very avid, very highly skilled diver and very technical diver. He's like, I hate doing.

Tourism diving. That's what he's doing with us Because he does such hardcore stuff turns out He went to university in Kiev, Ukraine Was there five or six years to become an avionics engineer? So like he is highly educated has all these experience just a just incredible guy here any story and he's like, yeah, but

Rachel Denning (06:51.502)
come back here and because of all the politics and all the garbage and the way the economy is running, just junk, it's like I can't even do what I love to do. And my kids are right there hearing all of this, they're being exposed to so much and you learn so much about life and humanity and culture and language and people and economies and geopolitical problems and wars. It's amazing. I love it.

All that was a rambling start to our conversation today. A little side note. But at all, I mean, we're talking about parenting today and we're talking about helping our children do what they need to do in order to become their best selves. And I hope we can get to today helping them want to do what they need.

To do which is the ideal Ideally, we don't want to raise children who only do what they're quote -unquote supposed to do because we tell them to or make them to or because they're obedient to us That's not what we really want So we want that's a crap sandwich What we really want is for our children to want to do those things and to choose to do them on their own And I can hear in my mind's

I was gonna say what mine's like. I can hear some of you saying, well yeah, but I have to do stuff every day that I don't want to do. That's just life. Well, that's crap life. And to you, exactly, that's what I'm saying. I was like, oh man. I don't want to do that. And I want to say that, like, there's a practical philosophy and principle here that if every day you're getting up and doing things you don't want to do, something's off. Right.

And we have the power and capacity to condition and train ourselves to want what we want and to want what we need. And once we get... And to create a life where you do more of the things you actually want. I mean, that's part of what we're talking about. We don't want to be misunderstood here. It's not that you should... We're promoting this life of ease and comfort and... Well, the exact opposite. And pleasure.

Rachel Denning (09:07.022)
There are plenty of things you need to do that you don't want to do, but if you want the outcome that's produced, then ultimately you want to do that even if you don't want to, if that makes sense. You don't want to do push -ups per se or work out hard every day. I did a cold, I ran up, okay, we're living on the side of a mountain and I went and ran the mountain. It hurts.

This was after you did a full workout with the kids. A hard, strenuous workout. Tens of push -ups. And then I'm like, afterwards, I don't feel like it, but I do it anyways. And here's the thing, I want to do it. I want the strain, mostly because I want the results. Right, you want the results. But I've learned to like the struggle too. And so I ran this crazy hill, and then I came back and I jumped in this freezing cold water, and I stayed in there.

I could just feel the pain especially my arms when you move around really cold water I can feel the pain and I was sitting there working through this like no I want this I want to be able to endure the discomfort

because of the benefits. Because there's tons of benefits for cold water therapy. So our point is, if you're just doing things you don't want to do because you have to do them, that is not, in our mind, a great long -term sustainable strategy for life. You need to create a life that has this drive and motivation of things you want that makes you do the things you don't want to do to get the things that you want. Yeah.

And some of you might be saying, well, that's what I do. I have my job so I can make the money to pay the bills. But that's not a motivating enough purpose to give your life meaning and fulfillment and joy. So you have to find what it is you want so that you want to do the things that get you there. And there's a lot to that. That might be worth an entire episode. Yes. But.

Rachel Denning (11:03.758)
For now, we want to help our kids to want to do the things that they should do. Now, what we just hit on, obviously that requires us also leading out in that. So part of that comes back to, are you doing those things?

And if you're not, that's where you have to start because you can't get your kids to do things they should do because they want to do them. If you're not doing things you should do because you want to do them. If life isn't sure to you, it's going to be a chore to your kids. And they're only going to do the things that they should do because they're forced to do them. And they're going to do them in the ...

same grumbling manner you do. Exactly, right. And so they're watching you and you're like, wah wah wah wah wah, and you go along and wah. And they're looking at that. Remember, they're children. They're observing. They're just watching like, what is this life? What is all of this? What's happening here? And they're not articulating like that, but they're just watching. And they're watching you and you look pretty miserable.

And maybe you don't have very great results and you're just kind of grumbling along and you're just like, we just have to do it because that's just the way life is. And they're looking at you going, I don't want any part of that. Hashtag no thanks. Right? Because why should they? I mean, step back. Step back as an outside observer and watch your kids watch you. And you're sitting there, no, we have to do things and oh, we got to do it. And you're creating

battles, you're fighting with your kids about this list of arbitrary things you just have to do. And they're sitting there going, this sucks. Right. Well, or they have the, you know, there's different personality types, or they have the personality type where they're like, oh, okay, I guess this is how it is. And so then they follow in your footsteps and they do it in the same grumbling way that you do it. And because they think,

Rachel Denning (13:07.63)
Well, this is how we approach life. This is how we approach the things we don't want to do. We grumble and complain and we have to be motivated or, you know, the carrot or the stick to get it done. So that's the first place to look is how am I approaching these things in my life, right? First of all, do I even have things I want to do? And second, if I'm pursuing a noble aim,

and there's unpleasant trees to get to that, how am I approaching those? Am I approaching them with gratitude or, you know, like grit? Or am I just... And a smile on your face? When possible. It's always possible. Right.

So we gotta look at those things. There's a lot here. There's a lot here. This is all coming from a really good question we got and I want to address the question, but we have to back up and realize there are layers and layers and layers of stuff in answering just a simple question. Right, and that's what a lot of people don't understand that we, and we love to bring this reminder every time we answer questions, is because someone comes to us and they have a question, they're like,

this is my problem, what's the answer? And they were looking for like one thing, do this thing, it will solve all the problems. But that never ever ever exists, it doesn't. And the reason it doesn't exist is because every single challenge you have in your life is layer upon layer. It's covered with layers of things that are contributing to this symptom. The symptom is the problem you want solved. The cause is multi -faceted. There's...

If you think of it as like an onion or something, there's the core and then there's layer upon layer, you have to go dig through all of those layers to find the true cause of the problem. Now, obviously, that's not the silver bullet you want. That's not the pill that's going to solve everything. And so people look for the quick fixes, they look for the pills that are going to solve all the problems. They don't exist.

Rachel Denning (15:11.086)
And so if you want real solutions, lasting solutions that create great relationships and great families, you have to do the work of digging through the layers. It's just unavoidable. There's no other way around it. But it's the golden key to an extraordinary life. Oh, absolutely it is. Deep happiness and peace. So you come with a question, a problem to fix, and you go away with...

a bigger problem. With more problems? You go away with a bigger problem to solve. But here's why. This actually works. Because you go to the root of the problem and then not only does, if you address the root of the problem, I mean the cause is cured, not only does this current problem go away, but that eliminates all future problems. Well, and other problems that you...

haven't even addressed because you've been so focused on this one problem. Exactly. But they're like branches of this same tree. And so you solve the underlying problem and it fixes all of those other problems, plus the ones that were going to show up in the future that weren't there yet. And so instead of endless, literally, symptom management. Infinite, whack -a -mole symptom management, you're like, no, we're done with this. We're going to do the deeper work. We're going to address this from the root up. And then...

It just solves this whole stream of future problems. That's gone. Now I don't have to worry about it. And it frees up all this bandwidth and space and emotional energy and joy and happiness. And you can now transfer to solving other things. And then once you get those - Well, it's enjoying life more. Yeah, and just living. And once those core issues are addressed, all the other stuff just kind of comes and goes. It becomes an insignificant, small -

Speed bumps, you're like, oh, we'll just go over this, no big deal. Slow down a little bit here and we'll get over it and then move on. Instead of, oh, here we go again. One more problem on another. Exactly. So as we, I'm gonna read this question and as we work through it and answer it, we're obviously gonna take this multi -leveled approach. We're going to look at it from multiple different angles and we're gonna look at.

Rachel Denning (17:30.894)
you know, the potential causes. Now of course we never know exactly because if we could go into your house and we could observe what's happening, we could pinpoint exactly what's happening. This, this, this are contributing to that, that and that. But without that, without being the fly on the wall in your home. Infinite way to do that. I know. Because we could, it would be so helpful. That's why the coaching is so powerful. And that's why, like, when you can.

get involved, like gentlemen join the Be the Man Masterclass and try, ladies and gentlemen, get in the 28 day challenge and the formula group coaching, because we can give customized, individualized personal attention and tools and training, like we can do this very thing we're talking about. We can get in and see what's happening and address it. Right. But in absence of that, we just...

cover as many possibilities as we can think of. Okay, so the question. I have a 13 year old daughter. She gets homework from a homeschool co -op. And every week it's a battle. I remind her about the assignments and she says, yes, I know, and then gets mad at me every time I bring it up, but then either doesn't do it or is up late the night before it's due.

Rachel Denning (18:55.118)
Let it begin. Okay. So for I'm going to we'll just go in random order. The first thing I thought when I read this was well if this was my child that first of all this isn't necessarily an abnormal situation like I've had plenty of my children who have not we've participated in co -op so far and they didn't want to do their homework like that's not okay. Should we.

Should we start there or should we start at the fact that she's 13? I'm going to start with where I started and then we'll talk about the fact that she's 13. So again, if they don't want to do their homework, that's not like that's something's wrong with them, right? Oh my gosh, my child doesn't want to do their homework.

Now, the reason why they don't want to do their homework is what we're talking about. Like, there's a root cause for that, and we're going to get into that. But the first thing I thought was, well, if this was my child, this is an easy choice for me. I would just let them experience the natural consequences of not doing the homework. I would, you know, remind them if they didn't want to do it, then, okay, they don't do it, and they show up at the co -op with their homework not done.

Now one of the reasons, of course, that as parents we often avoid that scenario is because we don't want to be seen as the parent who doesn't have the child get their homework done. We don't want to be that parent. We don't want to be judged by the other parents of like, oh wow, they never get their homework done. Wow.

what's going on in their house that they can't get the homework done. We're more concerned about our image. Exactly. What others might think of us. Yes. And so this is why so many parents are... Avoiding natural consequences? Well, yeah, but they, what do they call them? They call them like snowplow parents or whatever. Like you're clearing the path for your kid and the reason you're doing it.

Rachel Denning (20:51.278)
Ultimately, fundamentally is because you're worried about your image. Yes. What people think you so you're you're making sure everything's done for your kid and everything looks great and you're actually crippling the kid Exactly. So this is the problem because Again at first glance I thought the answer is easy here. Let them get the consequences of not doing the homework and failing at this thing because guess what? Failing at not doing your homework at a co -op when you're 13 is easy. I

compared to failing when you go to college or failing when you get a job or failing when whatever film is like. In your marriage. In your marriage. Exactly. In their future parenting. It's so much better to let them fail at this thing while they're young than to postpone that failure by constantly battling, reminding, whatever, all the things we do to get them to do the work.

when if you let them fail and not do the work, there are going to be some sort of consequence for that. It might be by someone saying something or the teacher getting upset or whatever, fill in the blanks, there's something, there is a consequence that's going to occur and they need to experience that. That's the only way that they're going to learn. Besides the fact that if you're the one always reminding them to do the work, then they're not learning themselves to be responsible.

Because you're doing it for them. Children can never be learned to be responsible if we're constantly reminding them to do the things they're supposed to do. So, but again, and there's there's like we mentioned earlier, we're going to keep mentioning this. So it sinks in deeply. There are so many layers to this. Yes. And what Rachel just explained, that's one layer rock solid, but it will backfire immensely massive backfire and will not work.

If you're just like, oh, okay, that's my answer. I'll just let them have the natural consequences. That could backfire so destructively in your kid's life if you don't have the other elements in place. If you aren't giving them a vision of who they want to become and what they want to do with their lives. If you're not setting an example of how great life can be. If you're not exposing them to greatness, to excellence. If they're not genuinely happy.

Rachel Denning (23:12.366)
Healthy if they're not sleeping well, they're not eating well. They're not thinking clearly this won't work They won't right they can't they literally cannot get the lesson That's there if everything else is off Because they can't even think straight To realize oh Okay, I should figure out how to do this right I should care about I should care now with the whole

the layers here, there's a couple of other aspects in play because of course one of them could be, well, I let them have the natural consequences and then they're like, great, I don't care if I turn in the homework or not. I don't care what my teacher thinks. And so that's another issue that has to be a draw. Can we pause here for a second? I want to make sure that everyone listening doesn't kind of zone out and think, oh, this episode isn't for me because my kid's not in a co -op.

What we're talking about here, I wanna really drive this home. This is a parenting principle and practice for all of us on all situations, all scenarios. So it's just one specific instance that we're using to illustrate the principle, the practice, the philosophy behind this. So please pay attention to this and think through your own unique scenario of why your kid doesn't want to do something that maybe you feel like they need to do.

Sorry, I wanna make sure that that hits. So keep going. So they don't care. They go and they're like, I give a crap. So they could care less about what the teacher thinks or any consequences they might get at the co -op or whatever it is. Now, the reason that this would be occurring is because, back to the root cause, there's some other issue that's leading to them not caring.

Now one of them could be like, maybe the co -op just sucks. Sometimes that's the case. I would probably say quite often. And this is another challenge because as parents we think, well, this is the best option available. I've signed them up. I've paid the money. I want them to get value from it. So I want them to do their homework. But if it just is like not an ideal situation and the child is not engaged,

Rachel Denning (25:31.342)
Us forcing them to do something they hate doesn't help them in the long run. And people think that that's not true because they think, well, that's just how life is. Well, if we're going back to these ideal principles where we're trying to be internally motivated to do the things that bring the results we want, that's actually not how it works. That actually kills that process. Whenever you force someone, including yourself, to do things you actually hate,

You're not helping yourself to create the life that you really want to live. You just can't. Because you have to be internally motivated and connected to a noble aim in order to go through the process. Again, we're not saying...

you take the easy road and you don't do hard things. That's not what we're saying. But you have to be internally connected to the noble aims so that you can do the process of the hard things required to get there. Exactly. And we have to teach our children that process. So when this has happened in our own life, you know, we've done a co -op, multiple co -ops. And when our children were just not thriving, when they weren't actually engaged in it,

Then guess what? Instead of making them do the homework, I just let them choose whether or not they were going to be in the co -op. Some of them chose to stay and some chose to leave. Now guess what? The ones who chose to stay did the work on their own without me reminding them. I didn't have to say anything. Because it was a good fit for them. It was a good fit for them and they chose to be there and so they chose to do the work. Now if the child's being forced to be there, well then,

right away that's gonna be a problem. They're not gonna choose to do the work because they didn't choose to be there. And we often see moms are there because the moms like the co -op. She loves it and so she's there and the kids are like, I hate this. Exactly. Or the co -op's really strong for the younger group. And so the younger ones love it, they're eating up and you force the teens or tweens to go and they hate it or vice versa. It's really strong, the teens love it and the little kids are like.

Rachel Denning (27:40.014)
this is the worst day of the week. You have to pay attention to that and don't just force it. Now maybe it's the teacher and this is true for any class, any sport, any choir, orchestra, anything they're involved in. Look, if the teacher or the coach or the mentor is uninspiring or just kind of a miserable person, like that's a major problem.

And it's probably the major factor is like, look, I'm not being inspired. I don't care. I don't see how it's relevant. A person just drones on and on about whatever, or they're just a very uninspiring life. Then there's your problem. And that has to be addressed because kids naturally want to learn. And I know this is gonna be hard to believe. It's gonna sound crazy. They actually naturally want to do the uncomfortable hard work.

get results. As long as they have that correct motivation that they have identified and they are the one who's like who say this is what I want so I'm gonna do the work to get there. That your kids will blow you away they'll just inspire you and surprise you how much they will do to get the things they want when all the the right

Pieces are in place. Exactly. But so I guess the answer to all these questions are are the pieces in place. What's off here? What's happening or not happening where?

It's a battle. Because the question says it's a battle every time. There are major things off. So the question here is how do I get my child to do their homework? But in my mind, that's not the real problem. When we look at the levels, first of all, the problems are, OK, one of the symptoms is she's not doing her homework. But that's not actually the main problem. The other problems that are showing up in this wording is it's a battle.

Rachel Denning (29:46.478)
If you're having battles regularly with your children, there's some underlying issue that's a problem. And she gets mad at me every time I bring it up. If your child gets mad at you for bringing something up, there's issues there that need to be addressed. That's one of the ones I wanted to focus in on there. The battle could be related to the thing, and so that needs to be addressed. There shouldn't be battles. There really shouldn't be battles.

Every once in a while there's gonna be little skirmishes and those only come up to reveal to you, hey, this is a symptom of a bigger problem. So the battle is a symptom of a bigger problem. You've gotta figure out why there's a battle. Now sometimes there will be skirmishes on establishing boundaries because especially at this age, like you're talking about 13. Well, we'll come back to that. We'll come back to you. Especially at this age, they are naturally gonna push the boundaries. They're gonna say, where's the boundary here? There's so much more going on. We'll come back to that. And sometimes you have to...

hold your ground to say this is where the boundary is. But if it's a chronic battle around homework, for example, or around doing a chore, well, my guess would be if there's a battle about this, this probably is not the only battle that's happening. Exactly. And that's where she gets when you says, well, she gets mad at me when I bring it up. Soon as I heard that, I'm like, oh, there's a deficiency in the relationship. The relationship is off.

Too many withdrawals and not enough deposits. Exactly. In the relationship. So you can see each relationship as an account. So see it as like, this is your relationship bank account, so to speak. And there's too many withdrawals and not enough deposits. We should be able to ask our children to do things without any negative reaction, without a battle, without a fight, without a child getting mad at you for asking. If that cannot happen,

Well, again, there's multiple issues. You might be completely tactless. I've seen this so many times. I'm like, well, just ask them. Well, I do, and they find, I'm like, well, how are you asking? And then I realize, oh, man, you can't ask like that. You can't tell people that way. No human being is gonna appreciate being asked or told that way. And so it might be tact. It might be a lack of diplomacy.

Rachel Denning (32:08.654)
But ultimately, it's the deficit in the relationship because essentially every time you ask for something, it is in a way a withdrawal depending on how large things you're asking. So you have to think of it that way. If you're constantly asking your children for stuff and you're never giving them anything back, like you're not making deposits in ways that matter to them, that could be cuddling, spending time with them.

you know whatever it is you have to figure out for each child if you're not making enough deposits and you're constantly making withdrawals by asking for things you have an overdrawn bank account and I'm not surprised at that well that's exactly what makes it a battle is because they don't feel like they have enough to give to you because their account is empty but when that account is full sorry when that account is full then my children willingly

eagerly do what I ask because they know I've put a lot of credit in that account that I can draw on when I need to. In fact, you know, if you were to see our relationships accounts, like they're gigantic. They're huge. And so we can make withdrawals constantly because the accounts are so big. I don't. I'm still very careful about what I actually.

You don't ask or acquire. And they're so willing to do it. Like the ask is tiny because they... And we're just talking to you right now with our teens, even our kids who've grown up and moved out. We can ask whatever because we've been making deposits, what I call micro -deposits, where the little ones you make day in and day out, and macro -deposits, meaning huge deposits you make.

getting them scuba diving certified. Or taking on big trips or just doing really special things with them, for them, on their scoreboard, not yours. We've been making those deposits for so long and so consistently now. Like there's no - We're a millionaire. There's no strain. There's no strain in that, if that makes sense. And so part of the, and this is what we were referring to earlier, you come with a problem, you walk away with a bigger problem. In -

Rachel Denning (34:28.014)
in most cases, the bigger problem is that these accounts, these relationships, accounts are overdrawn. They're empty, they're deficit, and they're hurting. And so you have to make deposits. Now, I can hear you saying, are you kidding me? Everything I do for the last 13 years, I carried that baby in white butts and went through labor and all this money I spent in cooking and cleaning and laundry and blah, and you're going on and on. And you're right.

You've been making massive sacrifices. Sacrifices that your children don't even know about. In fact, the only person that knows about them is you. But you expect them to know that. And the only time they ever hear about it is when you're ranting and like, I've been sacrificing for you. But when you tell them that way, that's not a deposit. It's actually another withdrawal. Right.

because you're resentful or saying things like, I do so much for you and then bam, that's a withdrawal instead of a deposit. So you have to be super proactive about helping them understand what you've been doing.

And what you continue to do, and you don't do it grumblingly and miserly. It actually makes your kid feel, when you're resentful, it makes the kid feel resentful. Like, oh yeah, you did all that, but you hate me because of it. Exactly. Oh man, so massive controls. And this is one of the huge challenges of parenthood, of motherhood, is that in that aspect, it's not fair. And yet that is what forces and requires us to become...

a responsible adult because that is what responsible adults do. They continue to give and sacrifice even though they already have, right, for all of this time. Our kids don't know that. And so it's as though we're starting, in essence, every day we could say we're starting from a blank.

Rachel Denning (36:21.966)
You know a blank account in a way and every single day we have to be making those deposits now over time as we build this relationship of trust and they know oh, okay, actually everything you did before builds on that but If not, they feel well Simon blink a lot of times they fill in the deficit every single day and so Naturally when you ask something like hey do your homework?

It becomes a battle because it's not really about the homework. That's just a symptom of what else is going on. One of which might be issues with the co -op itself. But especially if there are other battles in other areas, then it's more about the relationship that you have with the child. Big time. And even if it's like, oh, I hate the homework, I hate the co -op, I hate this thing. But if they're getting mad at you for reminding, that's...

That's the symptom that something else is off and needs to be remedied there. And this can be tricky and challenging. And particularly this is very age dependent because remember that your younger ones, and may even really be from 13 down, depending on the child, they may not be able to grasp abstract things and they won't naturally recall,

past experiences. They have to be gently reminded until they get into their older teens and they can kind of they can cognitively grasp those things. Then they get it and then they're like, oh man, wow, this has been building for a long time. But with the younger ones, it's moment to moment. Like you can do something amazing and then the next moment they're like, yeah, but it's like, okay, yeah, it's because they they have this well especially cognitive ability that's super young. I think especially at this age.

So let's dive into age. So girls, well and boys, but man girls seem to really feel it. This identity.

Rachel Denning (38:34.286)
Development and some might call an identity crisis. I don't think it's a crisis It's just they're trying to discover who they are and how they fit in the world and it seems like a crisis because It's almost like it was some girls starts as young as 11 12 13 and so in all likelihood your daughter's in this space and and boys go through it too, but you're going through this identity phase and

What's happening is their brains are changing massively. They're going through puberty. Which is actually a lot of brain change rather than just hormonal change. Most people are like, oh, it's just teenage hormones or puberty hormones. It's not. It's literally that the brain is rewiring itself. It's rewiring. And so in that rewiring, they're also facing like, who am I? Who am I going to be? Where do I fit in? Do I have any worth?

What am I? What's my life about? Like all of the stuff. Now all of that is being exacerbated massively by technology and social media and endless entertainment and really rested. W -R -E -S -T means twisted or distorted messages from society, particularly on girls. Girls are more cognizant of it than boys are. And so she's going through all that right now. And it's...

That's a huge huge huge deal and we have to have a lot of grace and understanding there and we have to be like a lighthouse where the wind and the waves of all that chaos and all that unknown and the darkness and the doubt and the fear and the insecurity and the the big emotional swings of total elation to deep I'm depressed and discouraged and all of that and

and all of her fears and worries, she has to know that you can be a lighthouse. All her winds and waves and storms can just crash against that. You just call me standing there with the light. Sharing light. Right. Exactly. You have to do that. But if you're...

Rachel Denning (40:49.453)
dumpster fire. You're a chaotic mess or you don't have your crap figured out. What can you possibly lean on if there's nothing around you to lean on? Like you're looking for anything solid to grab a hold of and it's not there. That's terrifying. That is terrifying.

Now I can speak to that because I went through that. As a teen, there was nothing really solid for me to grab ahold of. I guess accepting God. Somehow, when everyone else and everything else around me failed, I leaned on God. And I developed that personal relationship with Him. But even then, it was so abstract.

as a teen boy, I'm like, yeah, thanks, but I need food and I need friends and this sucks. I'm scared, right? But you've got to have, so again, I can speak to this because I went through that. Grasping desperately for anything to hold onto. There's nothing. It sucks. So ladies and gentlemen,

You have to have some solidity to yourself. You've got to be something that they can, and someone who they can grab a hold of and hold onto when everything seems to be falling apart. And at that age too, everything seems like a very, very big deal. Like if you're some acquaintance that you think is a friend says something rude, it's...

It can feel devastating. So they've got to have that. You have to create this space of stability and support and love and comfort and boundaries. There has to be boundaries there they can feel safe and secure in.

Rachel Denning (43:03.853)
If you're not there, get there. Get whatever coaching you need, get the tools, the tactics, the systems in place so there's such a sense of strength and certainty that they can face all that crap. And they can go through it and then they will gladly go through the discomfort of things they don't necessarily like or uncomfortable or...

boring or whatever else, they'll be like, okay, whatever, nobody do. Well, and with all of this, we have to have this sense of trust in our children. Trust that they want to be good people because they do and that they're going to figure things out, which they are, especially with our support. Because another aspect of this, you know, like she either doesn't do it or she's up late the night before, it's due. Well, in my mind, that's a plus.

That's actually a sign of responsibility. Maybe that's not the ideal, but it is a step towards that. If she's actually staying up late to get it done the night before, kudos. You begin by praising that and say, good job. Good job for getting that done. And then you don't have to say anything, but on her own, she's going to think, gosh, I really hate staying up late the night before. I should get this done earlier. You don't have to say it. She'll figure it out. Trust me.

If you do say something, she's probably going to be a little more resentful, especially if the relationship's not good. If you have a good relationship, if you have those deposits, you could say, yeah, maybe next time you shouldn't, you know, it can be a play, however you're used to communicating with them, it could be playful. I know with my kids it would be playful. Like, yeah, next time you shouldn't stay up so late though, you should do it earlier. And they'd be like, yeah, you're right. And if I were doing any mentoring or coaching, I would just ask, like, hey, how could you, what could you do to maybe not have to be up so late to get that done in time?

and you ask the question and let them come up with the answer. Again, parents, if you're always giving the answers. And always telling them what to do. The kids still have no clue what to do. This is what blows me away. Parents are like shocked, or like the kids move out or parents are gone for a while and the kids make horrible decisions and the parents are just shocked. I can't believe I did that. I'm like, well, when did you ever give them a chance to make decisions? When did you ever teach them how to think on their own, to think through them? You always told them.

Rachel Denning (45:29.965)
what to think. You always told them what to do. So when you go away, they literally have no idea because you did the thinking for them. Because what is actually happening in their brain is those neural pathways have not been created. They actually have a space or a gap in that thinking process because at this point, mom told me what to do.

And so it does not compute, does not connect. They can't do it on their own because they haven't been able to develop that neural connection, that neural pathway. In spite of your frustration saying, I told you 10 ,000 times. Right. Yeah. It's when you don't tell them and they have to figure it out on their own that they actually then create that neural connection. Exactly. Now, don't leave them floundering. Don't say, hey, good luck with that. And don't give them, you know, you not give them any tools or strategies. Or guidance or. Yeah, give them the guidance.

Give them the mentoring, share the tools and strategies, give them examples and case studies. Like give them something to chew on with the questions so they can really start thinking through it and kind of hold their hands through it. That's when you'll get to a point where like, hey, you got this? And they'll figure it out. But that, of course, only works effectively if you are working on making the deposits in their emotional bank account regularly.

because otherwise, you know, all of the advice, counseling, mentoring is taken the wrong way and it's seen as an attack and it becomes a battle and they get defensive about it because you don't have that relationship with them. Now, when you allow them to make mistakes and get natural consequences and fail and falter, they start figuring things out on their own and they become

internally motivated to do the things that they want to do and the things you want them to do. And then it's beautiful because you don't have to remind them. You don't have to tell them. You don't have to nag them. I was just thinking like last week you guys went for your first scuba dive training and it was on Monday which is generally a school day for us and a work day.

Rachel Denning (47:45.933)
And you guys had to go down there and I think what you watched like five hours worth of videos or something on scuba diving. And you had to sit in a little bar on a little bar stool and watch all these videos. And I was at home with the younger kids and my 12 year old said, are they going to have to do all of their school when they get home? And I was like, no, this counts as their school for me. Like today was their school. But guess what? They came home, my 16 year old and my.

Almost 18 year old. On their own. On their own and did their school. Because they wanted to. They wanted to do it. And so they did. And before we came up I was like, hey, you guys just get up and you do your studies. They read voraciously. They are going through so many, and these aren't just fluffy cheesy books, they're going through great classics.

They're phenomenal books and reading so many. Moby Dick, Scarlet Letter, The Virginian, and then online. Tons of personal development. I mean, they're hitting great books and at a very inspiring pace. I think Aliyah, she's 16. I think she's already been through probably 30 books this year already. Oh, I think it's more than that. Oh my goodness. So she's flying, right?

And they're doing this, this is all on their own, you guys. We don't have to remind them, we don't have to tell them that they are learning voraciously. And I asked them, I'm like, well, hey, why are you motivated to do your studies? And Kimmel's like, uh, because I don't want to be ignorant. They get it, they get the principle. Now, do they always love doing?

their studies. Algebra? No, sometimes they get really frustrated with the challenging part of it. But they want to do studies even when they're uncomfortable because they want to be educated. Well, part of that is they see Rachel and I pursuing our education still because there's never a graduation from education. Right. And the other part of it too that Kimball articulated was plus if I don't.

Rachel Denning (49:58.317)
do it, save when he comes back from scuba diving or whatever, then I am behind and I have to do more later. He's like, so I either do it now or I do it later, but you know, I just like to stay on pace so that I can. Well, what's cool is that behind is arbitrary because it's not like you do exams or tests or graduation or anything. It's like he's just pursuing his education. Now we have a 12 year old son.

He's in that stage, you know 11 12 13 year old boys They rarely in that stage want to do anything that requires effort exactly even things they love they're like, wait a minute Will I have to sweat? I'm out like it's just it's a stage now if you're not careful your boys will go into that stage and stay there and When they're 30 living in your basement, they're like, but mom, I don't want to clean up

I have to bend over, it makes my back sore. I mean, they can stay stuck there. So you have to realize it's a stage and gently, adroitly lead them through it. How, oh man, I don't know how to emphasize this enough. Ladies and gentlemen, how you react to your children when they are going through their stages will determine,

who they become and how they do life. That's huge. And so you have to make sure you have the skills and the understanding.

to navigate those and help them through it. So our 12 year old son would say, hey, are you motivated to study? He's like, nope. Right. Right? And I'm like, well, what motivates you? And right now we've set up external motivators that are relevant. And he's like, I like those things.

Rachel Denning (51:56.077)
Like he's like, I love listening to my book. Well, we have a system set up where he gets to listen to his book, which he loves to do after he does his studies. Right. Yeah. So that's important that we bring this up because in those circumstances when they don't yet have that internal motivation, which is going to be the case pretty much younger than 14. Except it's really interesting because some of the younger kids, they actually are very, very motivated. And then they go through a phase of.

Losing motivation. So like an eight -year -old nine -year -old girl like it was our daughter. She's motivated to do the little things and goes on and on and Just loves it. She was the one that went to her co -op and she did her homework every week I had never had to remind her I never had to nag her she just did it because she loved doing the co -op and so she got it done now You're right She will have ebbs and flows of motivations for her homeschool studies. So anyways, I

if they're younger than about 14 and even for some older kids that haven't learned how to have this internal motivation because they've never been able to practice or decide things on their own. Particularly boys. Sometimes it can take till 16. Right. In that case, you do have to have external motivators in place to help them do the things they're supposed to do.

So we're not just saying, hey, just let them get the natural consequence for a six -year -old. It doesn't work like that. There has to be some things in place. One of the problems we see is that parents will continue to give their children all of the rights and privileges of being alive. And we're not talking about food and water and shelter. They get to have device usage. They get to play video games. They get to have all the treats and snacks they want. They get all these special things.

All these cool toys and experiences and friend time and on and on and on. This little luxury life without any exchange. So why would they? Why would they ever want to? Of course they're going to give you a battle because they've been getting all of this stuff and not having to do any work for it. So in those cases, you have to set up systems and boundaries of saying, no, you don't get these things until you do these things. Yes. These are the requirements.

Rachel Denning (54:10.253)
to earn these things. Critically important. I'm so glad you reminded me of this. If your kids have unlimited or almost unlimited access to entertainment, phones, devices, media, movies, games, whatever, then of course there's going to be a battle. Of course there's going to be kickback and fighting. Of course there's going to be resistance for any kind of effort.

And I would say, I don't know the situation here, but a 13 -year -old girl is the perfect scenario for this. If she has her own phone, which from my perspective, our perspective, that's way too young. A 13 -year -old girl should not have her own phone, no way. And even when your children do get their own device, it has to come in stages with boundaries, very firm, solid, protective boundaries. Proving that they can use it responsibly. Right, because it's a tool. Tool not toy.

that easily becomes a weapon of self -destruction. So let's say just for a scenario here, she has a phone and she has tons of access. Well, she's on there, whatever, it could be movies, it could be friends, chit chatting, scrolling, on and on and on. That's going to create neural problems because of addiction. Well, because what's happening on a physiological level is

everything that's happening on a device is creating some sort of dopamine hit in their brain. Literally, that's what's happening. Otherwise, we wouldn't be on there. If we weren't getting something positive out of this, none of us would be on a device. So they are getting dopamine hits. Now, because you can get dopamine hits so easily when you're playing video games, this is one of the problems with video games, or scrolling on Instagram. Or TikTok or whatever they're on. Then it's harder.

it feels harder and more effort to get those dopamine hits in real life. And so the default is, I'm just going to be on my device because it's easier to get those dopamine hits despite the fact that yes, it has negative consequences and there's negative chemicals that are also being generated, but it feels easier.

Rachel Denning (56:28.205)
than to do something in real life. Why would I work on my homework and feel the satisfaction of completing something like that when I can watch some video on YouTube or play some game or it's so much easier that way. And so that's what you're talking about is this addiction is because yeah, our brains are wired to want to get dopamine hits and we used to get them by completing tasks or doing something useful. Now we can get them by being on our device. And so it makes us literally lazier because

Real -world effort is effort. And so naturally for a young teen who could just endlessly play games watch movies or chit -chat with friends like Why would they do anything else exactly and if you try to get them to do that? Why they're gonna react is like no And it becomes react it becomes a part of the problem. And so in a very real way You

you're operating in self -sabotage. You've created a situation that is sabotaging your efforts because they are not going to willingly put down their device to do something you've asked them to do because why should they? Especially when they get to use said devices anytime they want. So you have to have boundaries and we call them headgates in place that direct their energy.

especially when they're young until they have learned how to, like our 16 year old and our 18 year old, they have their own, and then of course our 19 and 20 year old, they have their own devices. They have full access. But we have trained them how to use them responsibly. Younger than that, they don't get their own device and they don't get full access because we control it so that they can learn how to be responsible and act in responsible ways before they get full access to those things. It's a safety measure.

They have to be physiologically and psychologically capable first and then they have to go through the training to be able to do it with skill. Exactly. So you need to... And you guys, this is all the stuff. This is the stuff we cover in the formula, in the master class, in the things we do. It's like it's setting up the systems and strategies, giving the tools and the tactics to make this work effectively because like we started out in the beginning, this is a

Rachel Denning (58:50.605)
big, complicated, multi -layered, multi -faceted approach to long -term successful parenting relationships. It's so much more complex than one question and one answer. But hopefully this has been extremely helpful in setting that up. And ultimately it all comes back to what we call that holistic,

optimization of getting each of the important areas of our lives dialed in and working on the deep root of the issues so that the symptoms can be easily managed. Take care of themselves. Yep, take care of themselves. All right, love you guys. Thanks for listening. Thanks for being awesome.