Get answers to your questions about marriage, parenting and family life from experts and parents of 7 children!

Rachel Denning (00:10.734)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We are your host, Greg and Rachel Denning. And man, I am excited to talk about fighting. That's nothing new. To talk about fighting. I was going to say, that's nothing new. You're excited about everything. I know. I'm just such an excitable guy. Every time a question comes in, every time a topic comes in, I'm like, ooh, I'm excited about that one.

Just get excited. Not that he's excited about your pain or challenges. No, no, no. Don't misunderstand me. Most of you are like, you inconsiderate, terrible person. How could you be excited about the fighting? Actually, what I'm really excited about is to talk about peace. Yes. And how fighting doesn't have to happen. And as with, oh, I knew you were going to bring that up. I knew it. An hour or two ago, I was thinking about this. And I was like, oh, Rachel's going to be like, no.

We'll get into that. But as with almost everything we talk about, it's way more than just the thing. It's all of it. It has to be this big.

comprehensive full picture. It's never ever. Man, if you don't get anything else from our podcast, from our courses, from our coaching, anything, you don't get anything else. Everything affects everything. It is all interrelated. Every element of your life is connected to the others. And the only way it all ultimately works very well is this whole life optimization, like getting all the pieces to work.

together I Think we emphasize that every time good well That's why I'm emphasizing the fact that we emphasize it every time because it is so important like just like you said if you get nothing else you need to understand that everything's interconnected and so I Think especially in our last podcast episode we get we did someone asked a question and of course the answer is

Rachel Denning (02:23.982)
It's all of it. Right. The answer is multi -layered. And so, yes, that's an issue. That's a point we're going to be reiterating again and again and again because it is so important. And it is actually the answer that you're looking for. When you're looking for an answer, you think it's going to be one thing. You think it's going to be this. But it's really what we're talking about, the fact that it's layered and everything is interconnected. Yes.

It's huge. And that seems challenging and overwhelming. That feels like more problem, more work. And so people often feel overwhelmed or even more stressed by that. But really that's actually powerful because it means you have the power to actually enact lasting change. And if you can go upstream and find the cause.

of the pot, the poisons or the problem, then think about all the stuff downstream that'll be solved automatically. Not just, well in today's podcast it's like, why do my kids fight so much? My kids are just constantly fighting. How can we get the fighting away? How can we stop the contention and all the battles and all that stuff, right? All that comes with it. But if you go upstream to find causes, then think about it.

that flow downstream now with pure water, wow, it leaves this long, long, long trail of beautiful, wonderful things. Right, and it eliminates... So what's happening and why this is better is because of instead of solving that one problem that's the pain point right now that you want to address, you go upstream and you solve a different problem, but then it stops all these other problems downstream.

You weren't even worried about addressing at this point because of the pain of this one thing, but now you've actually solved multiple things. So it's actually more effective that way. Way more. And I want to emphasize this. If we were together in person, I would be very tempted to walk up really close to your face. Uncomfortably close to emphasize what I'm about to say. So please, please, please hear this. Fighting.

Rachel Denning (04:48.526)
Contention, bitterness, anger, grudges, all the bristling is not the natural state of a human being, including a child who has all of their needs met. A whole person, a healthy person of any age, if their needs are met, if things are peaceful and settled,

and good inside and out, there's no need for the fight. There's no need for the battle. The natural state is peace and love and cooperation and getting along and beautiful relationships and helping out and loving and forgiving and being peaceful and sharing. That's the natural state of children. Now, what you're going to hear from other people is,

Oh yeah, well everyone fights in their marriage. Oh yeah, all kids fight. They just do. Just because it's common doesn't mean it's true. What's common is the problem. The problem is common. And people look around like, oh yeah, everybody's kids fight. It's because they're all doing the same stupid stuff. But just because it's common doesn't mean it's natural. Exactly. Or a natural state. Right. Nor it's whole. And so we want to think, oh that's normal. Yeah, kids just fight. That's normal. No, it's not.

It might be normal but it's not natural. It's common. Normal and common but not the natural state of a human being whose needs are met. Yep, exactly. So, and we'll get into all this, but just please, please, please hold that image in your mind and spirit that when our needs are met, we don't need to fight.

We don't need to lash out. We don't have to have all the... There's no need to misbehave. Right. Yeah. Teenage rebellion. I hear people like, don't...toddlers, teens, whatever. Oh, all kids do it, whatever. No, they don't. It's because their needs aren't being met. Exactly. Teenagers make terrible decisions, have bad attitudes, can't wait to get through the teen years. No way. Our teens are phenomenal.

Rachel Denning (07:14.67)
And because their needs are met, they just, they wake up pleasant and happy and helpful, cooperative. Grateful. Super grateful. Insanely grateful.

do whatever we ask. And I would say that this is true in a marriage too. The reason people are having conflict in their marriage is because the needs of each person are not being met. Now, obviously that comes down to the fact that they don't understand each other's needs and so they're not able to meet them in the way they need to be met. So that's why they have conflict. So yeah, essentially all of the problems you have in your family life,

All the upstream source of those is the fact that the individual needs of the members of the family are not being met. So in like, with this question we received, why are my children fighting so much? I'll just read it really fast.

Rachel Denning (08:10.958)
Okay, I'm feeling so burnt out of motherhood. My kids are fighting so much. Last week I issued a no fighting challenge for seven days. They did pretty good and you got a desired price. Awesome. Way to go on that. Hey guys, let's do a no fight challenge. Seven days. Let's just do that. And that is a really, really great strategy. That's a great reminder. It's a great catalyst to remind them of like, hey, let's get out of this pattern of contention. Let's get back to where we want to be. But...

if we don't fix the cause of the problem, the challenges are not sustainable in the long term. Yes. Okay. So this week has been a total dumpster fire. I keep circling back to me making sure I'm good, but I'm just not. I feel drained at the end of my day after so much fighting. Any advice? So what I was saying is that ultimately with any questions such as this, we have to look at the upstream problem. And what that is going to be is essentially,

the needs of the people involved are not being met. The needs of mom are not being met. The needs of each of the children are not being met, either from mom or dad or their siblings. So because of unmet needs, that is why people use these, what Greg likes to call vehicles, they're using this vehicle to try to fulfill their needs. Now, what happens is it's not an efficient way of filling their needs, but because they don't know what else to do,

this is what they do. People fight, they argue, they act out, they misbehave, adults and children, because of unmet needs. That is essentially the basis of human psychology right there. Everything that happens is because of an unmet need. And trying to fulfill that need in a way that isn't necessarily logical, but yet it's...

physiological in a way. It's just the body's way of trying to take action to get some sort of result. And it seems while we're sitting here having a logical discussion, it seems crazy. That doesn't make sense. Why would they do that? Why would anyone pick a fight to try to meet a need because they're not feeling loved? It's like the exact opposite. And yet that is the story of humanity and society of people.

Rachel Denning (10:34.989)
grabbing vehicles that don't work. And either consciously or subconsciously trying to meet a need. And very often it's sabotage. Yeah, I mean, I love what you said. That is essentially the story of humanity. All of the conflicts in humanity essentially have their source from...

someone having unmet needs, and then they try to act that out in the world in a way that can become destructive to others. So it's so important. That's another reason why our role as parents are so important, because if we can help our children to be healthy and whole, and of course, help ourselves be healthy and whole, we're literally solving the world's problems one person at a time. And if all of us can do that, I know for a fact, like I do not doubt this.

If every single parent on the planet could become the best person they could be and then help their children to become whole and healthy, the world's problems would be solved. They would go away. It really would. It's that simple to be. Now, of course, it's that simple, but it's not that easy because there's a lot of people involved and a lot of issues to be solved, but that's the basic foundation of how it would work. So it's the same thing in your home.

If you're having conflict, and I've thought about this many times, like as a parent, there have been times where I felt hopeless about the state of the world because I thought if I can't even...

I remember when our kids were young and we were having this similar type issue, I thought, if I can't even help my own family and my own kids not fight, no wonder the world is such a mess. Like, I get it. We can't even figure it out here. How could anyone figure it out? And yet, as I have gained more skills, I feel more hopeful because I realize that ultimately it is a skill. Diplomacy, conflict resolution, it's all a skill that begins at home.

Rachel Denning (12:26.349)
And if we can do it at home, we can begin to learn how to do it on a global scale, right? So there is some hope for humanity, right? But it starts at the home, and it starts with our own children. And so, first of all, we have to understand, like we said, that the needs are not being met. Now the other key piece, unless you have something else to add to that... I want to start with the parent first, but...

Well, maybe I'll just tee this up for these both approaches we want to look at and then we can dive into that. But the other one is what we call the pyramid of peace, for lack of a better term. And it comes from an amazing book every parent should read called the Anatomy of Peace by the Arbinger Institute. And in it they have a pyramid of peace where...

What happens is when your children are fighting, you want to resolve that problem because it is painful to you. But the actual solution to the problem of them fighting is not to stop them from fighting. Because the fighting is the symptom and it's actually, if you look at the pyramid, it's at the very top of the pyramid. It's like the tippy top, the little piece at the top.

that's what's happening, that you're trying to fix what's going wrong, the fighting. The fighting is going wrong, I'm trying to fix it. That's the very top of the pyramid. Everything else under the pyramid, all of the other layers leading up to that point are actually the real solutions to the problem. And all of those are referred to.

as helping things go right. So there's fixing what's gone wrong, which is at the very top of the pyramid. And literally the last thing we do. The last thing you should do. And ironically, the very thing that most parenting experts try to focus on, they're like, let me tell you how to fix what's gone wrong. That doesn't work in the long run. It doesn't. It might provide temporary...

Rachel Denning (14:39.949)
solutions but in the long run it does not fix the problem. This is symptom management. Exactly, that's all it is. You have to focus on the bottom seven eighths of the pyramid which is to help things go right.

And when you help things go right, then guess what? You rarely, if ever, get to the top of the pyramid of fixing what's gotten wrong. And this applies across the board. Greg literally had a coaching call with a client yesterday whose son has gone off the path that they've wanted for him. And it's the same principle.

If you try to focus on fixing what's gone wrong instead of to help things go right, you can actually solve the problem. Now, that's also what leads to the problem is because unknowingly, parents are not focusing on helping things go right, and so they end up with a result they don't want, and then they try to fix that. It doesn't work that way. It can't work that way. It's too late. I'm not gonna say it's too late, like too late forever.

but you can't make quick changes right then to try to solve it when 7 1⁄8 of the pyramid has been building and leading to that thing. So you have to be aware of this, you have to pay attention to it, and you have to take intentional action before things go wrong to help them go right. This is the challenge, of course, because...

Unfortunately, many of us don't know what we don't know, and we don't know that this is an issue, and we don't know that this is a thing we have to do until we get to that point where we have the pain, and now we're trying to solve what's going, fix what's going wrong. And I'll throw out this warning, because I've seen it so many times over more than two decades of working with people. If you do not get dead serious,

Rachel Denning (16:41.485)
about helping things go right. If you do not take, make drastic alterations in your life, then the compound effect starts to play into it. And the pain just gets exacerbated and it is one problem after another, one fire after another, one disaster after another, and they just keep coming.

until things are so out of control. I had another client reach out to me recently. They let things get that far. I tried over the last few years, do this, do this, do this, and oh well, oh well, OK, what? And they didn't do it. And now the destruction is.

eminent. And in that situation may literally be beyond repair. And this isn't the end of the pain. It will continue to self -destruct for so long. So let me like, adamantly throw out a warning voice here. You have to do everything in your power to help things go right.

before this gets so bad that things just all go wrong. Well, because I think many parents have this belief, and I know some of your clients have voiced this, that they just think that as long as you do the best you can and, you know, just kind of cross your fingers and hope for the best, things are going to turn out. They'll turn out in the end. And maybe that was true.

last generation, maybe that was true 100 years ago, that is not true today. It just won't happen. Hoping things are gonna turn out, hoping they're gonna go well, will not work, and in fact are more likely to lead to disaster than anything else.

Rachel Denning (18:53.389)
because of the current climate we live in. There is filth, toxicity, danger everywhere you turn. No one is escaping from it. No one is going to avoid being exposed to it. That used to be the case, you know? You could go your entire life and avoid being exposed to serious issues or problems or pornography or drugs or alcohol or whatever. Like that was possible. It's not possible anymore.

you're gonna go out into the world and you're gonna come across somebody. Or the world's gonna come into you. Or the world's gonna come to you. It's literally gonna come in through your device. You can't shut it all out. So you have to take proactive action and you can't just cross your fingers and hope and pray that everything's gonna turn out. It will not. You must take intentional action to help things go right, right?

so that you don't have to try to fix it when it's gone wrong because that's the worst strategy that has the least positive outcomes. Now, this is of course the big picture. We're not talking about your small children fighting.

But it's all a part of this piece, this puzzle piece. Like when you're practicing the skills of helping things go right so your children don't fight, you're also practicing the major meta skills of solving problems in your family and preventing things from going wrong so that you can do that with everything. You can do that with sex and drugs and faith and every problem you might encounter, you have to be able to have those skills and you practice them now with these smaller,

issues like sibling rivalry. So it's all a part of the big picture and we have to keep that big picture in mind so we remember what is at stake here and not just be like, oh well. We'll just make it through. Don't just take a we'll make it through attitude. Don't throw in the towel and say I can't do this too big. Don't stick your head in the sand and think well hopefully this passes over. Hopefully this won't affect us. Yeah.

Rachel Denning (21:08.653)
or yeah, do not think that somehow you will be exempt. Because somehow - You won't be. We have not been exempt. God will preserve you or you'll have a special circumstance because of where you live or who you are, your hope or faith. Like do not think that somehow you will be the exemption because you will get rocked. Because we're speaking from -

having spoken, having had many, many, many good, faithful, praying people tell us, this is what happened to my family. No one's immune. But the only thing that keeps you safe is the intentional actions of helping things go right, like we've been talking about, the pyramid. You can prevent or stave off a lot of disaster.

by being intentional with your actions and your words and your relationship building, which we're all gonna talk about, I'm gonna talk about the layers in the pyramid, but doing all those things is the one thing we've seen that actually works. Every time. Yeah. It works every time. As long as you can do it well and you continue working on it and continue doing it and continue improving your skills at doing it, it works.

So stop hoping things get better. Hope is not a strategy. Start making things go better. And realize this is the other thing that we love to emphasize. It's good. Pay attention to these things. If your kids are fighting, if they are...

getting angry at you, if they're back talking, if they have bad behavior, all of those are signs. Don't think that, oh, that's just normal. That's just their age. It's not normal. It's only normal because it's the norm, but it's not natural if needs are being met. So it is good to pay attention to all of these things. And this is one of the approaches of parenting.

Rachel Denning (23:12.365)
that I think has worked really well for us and that's that we pay close attention and we in a way make a big deal out of the small symptoms because we realize that they can compound into larger symptoms. So whenever we see some symptoms. We see a small problem, we address it immediately. Exactly. Because we know if we don't address small problems, they will become huge problems. They will grow into big problems.

Sometimes I like to call it the dragons. If you see a little baby dragon, you're like, oh, that's cute. That thing will grow into a huge dragon. You've got to get rid of it while it's small. And that's the best time. So we are always addressing the baby dragons when we notice them so they don't grow into big giant monsters. OK. So I think the first place to always start is with you.

And even in the question, she said that, she's like, I realized I gotta look at myself first and make sure that I'm in a good place. And her assessment was, I'm not, I'm not in a good spot. Which is difficult because that can become this loop of...

contributing like they're both contributing to each other mom's i a good place which causes more fighting the kids are fighting which it causes mom to not be in a good place and she keeps getting in a worse place because the kids keep fighting and they keep doing more fighting because she keeps getting in a worse place this positive feet negative feedback whoop whoop that's producing the exact thing you don't want

which then keeps producing more of it. So it's this downward spiral that can be very difficult to get out of, but ultimately it requires you, I don't know if you were gonna say something first, I'll keep talking. Ultimately it requires you to take different action than what you've been taking, right? I think I'll just start with a simple example this morning.

Rachel Denning (25:18.285)
Because this is how we address it in a small way. So this morning, you know, I got up, I did my morning routine, I started working on some work projects before everyone got up. And then I kept working on them because I was really into it. And Greg and the older teens started working out and then the younger kids, well specifically my two youngest girls who are nine and six.

They were sitting by me and they were just talking, talking, talking, talking, and they were just talking away, and it was all happy, pleasant, but because I was so into my project, I noticed I started to get this slightly bothered feeling of like, I really wanna do this right now, and they really wanna talk to me and get my attention, you know, and that thing starts to happen.

And I was, because I've been practicing awareness, I noticed that it was happening. And I also knew that I needed to do something to prevent it from getting worse. Either myself getting more bothered or them acting out in some way. But I kinda just, like okay, just a minute, just a minute more, just a minute more. And I noticed what started happening is that...

It's my six year old's half birthday. We celebrate half birthdays and so she, it's her half birthday, she's all excited and she started talking to my nine year old and then was like, give me some hugs, it's my half birthday, hug me and my nine year old was like, I don't wanna hug you right now and they started getting into this little thing about, I want you to hug me right now, I don't wanna hug you right now and then it started, it was kind of playful still but it was starting to get a little bit, then they started chasing and all around and I'm like, okay. And.

Here's the key. I knew that was leading to a potential fight. Because I've practiced awareness, I knew where that was going. I also knew that part of it was behavior caused by my lack of attention. I was into my work on my computer, and because of that, they were trying to get my attention. I gave them some attention, like, oh yes, the little attention we do, or we look at them for a second, then we go back to what we're doing.

Rachel Denning (27:22.989)
And because of that... And you had growing irritability inside yourself. And I was having slight growing irritability. This is a great example because it is a perfect recipe that if not stopped early, turns into something ugly. Because here's the thing that we don't always realize. Our children can pick up on that. They can tell when we're starting to get irritated or annoyed or frustrated. And they actually then begin to pick up those emotions.

Now that might sound strange to some people, but it's really true. I've noticed it again and again in our family life. So they had started to pick up on my little bit of irritation, and then we're beginning to act that out. Now, they don't know how to articulate any of this. They can't sit there and say, Mom, I feel like you're getting bothered right now, and I would really like your attention. So do you think you could stop your working for a minute? And they're not gonna do that. We have to be the adults. Most adults can't do that. I know, most adults can't do that.

We are the ones that have to be the adults and learn how to be aware of these things and pay attention to them and then take action. So once they started their little chasing game of hug me, no I don't want to hug you right now. I thought okay, it's done, it's time. So I closed my computer and I got up and instead of what we might think we should do, girls stop fighting, don't act like this, you need to do this and you need to do that.

I didn't do that because I realized how it got to that point and why. And so I immediately focused on redirecting their attention. It's back to the pyramid. Instead of getting up and trying to fix what's not going right. Exactly. Get up and focus on helping things go right. Exactly. So I go to the bottom layers of the pyramid and I focus on.

Okay, what are we excited about today? We're excited about it's Sanji's half birthday. And so I said, okay, let's find out where dad is because as soon as dad gets back, we're gonna do what we love about Sanji because it's her half birthday today. So I refocused that attention onto what was positive, what was exciting and immediately that changes the energy for everyone, right? And then I also.

Rachel Denning (29:28.301)
I went over and gave Sanji a hug. Like she wants a hug from her sister. Her sister doesn't want to give her a hug for whatever reason. I'm going to go give her the hug. So I gave her the hug and then I'm loving on her, which is another strategy for helping things go right. Often as parents we want to get after our kids because they're misbehaving when that doesn't fix the problem. My go -to solution very often, especially for children under the age of 12, is cuddling.

If they're misbehaving, I say, you know what, why don't you come cuddle with me? Let's sit on the couch, let's cuddle for a minute. And it's amazing that when you allow them to sit there with you, and I'll focus on breathing or whatever, I just focus on feeling calm, feeling loving feelings, they pick up on that, it resets them, and when they are ready, this is the key, I will sit there for as long as they want to sit there. When they're ready, they get up.

and they literally go out in a different state. They are now in a happy emotional state and that misbehavior is gone because they are filled with positive emotions. So, well, I don't know where I was going with that. Meeting the needs. Right, okay. So the needs are being met there. Well, and I think the birthday thing is important. So we do birthdays and half birthdays and we...

So twice a year, everyone in the family shares what they like about that person. So they get individual attention, and it's compliments, it's praise, it's... Love. Affirming them. It's so powerful. And they get reminded that people love them and respect them and honor them and admire them. And like, again, what you praise.

gets repeated and gets emphasized. Like this is just powerhouse. So those are just a couple of examples right there in that story of ways we're filling the well of each individual and meeting the needs so that they feel whole. Right. Yeah, we're helping things go right so that they feel whole so then they naturally behave in good ways, wholesome ways. So yeah, when you...

Rachel Denning (31:54.605)
You said something there about focusing on what you want. That's another strategy that parents often don't realize that it actually works. And that's focusing on what you want instead of on what you don't want. So one of the things, well, it really is a good idea to have something like a no fighting challenge or whatever. That's a good way to mix things up and bring awareness to the issue. But...

It reminds me of something Mother Teresa said years ago. She was invited to go to this anti -war rally. And she said, no, if you invite me to a pro -peace rally, I'll come, but I'm not going to an anti -war rally. Because she was all about focusing on what she wanted. She wanted peace, so she was going to focus on peace. So in some ways, a no -fighting challenge is, in a way, almost reinforcing the fighting. Like...

it kind of might not make sense, but it's in a metaphysical way, you're focusing more on the fight. When really the answer is not to focus more on the problem, what's going wrong, but to focus more on what you want instead. So when you put more focus onto the behaviors you actually want, you get more of those behaviors. The more I try to get after my kids for the things I don't want them to do, the more they actually do those things. Because your brain,

The reticular activating system is paying more attention to that thing, and so you actually get more of that thing. The same in their brain. So if you begin to focus more on what you actually want them to be doing, then they start to do more of those things. So it requires creativity, of course, but whenever you notice, instead of focus, because this is what happens. It's almost like we wait until we then notice the fighting, and then we say something. When what we need to be doing,

is paying attention way before to the positive behaviors that we see and then we say something about those. Exactly. And the way that's working psychologically and physiologically is when you now jump in on the fight, one, you're giving them attention, which is probably what they wanted. Right, because their needs are not being met, one of which is attention. You're bringing lots of emotion.

Rachel Denning (34:17.229)
into it. And so it's attention, it's emotion, it's all this stuff. And so the brain, the child's brain goes, wow, this is important. It's getting attention, it's getting lots of emotion. And so the brain just subconsciously says, we're going to really pay attention to this. We're going to figure out how to do more of this because it gets attention and emotion. It's emotion. And so the RAS in the brain just says, this is important. Let's give it attention. Let's make it a focus.

Which we think - It's really bizarre. Yeah, it is bizarre because we think, well, that doesn't make sense. Why would the child want negative attention and negative emotion? And it's not really about that. The brain is simply trying to get what it needs, attention and emotion, whether it's negative or positive. Emotion, physiologically, emotion means important. This is important, this is important, this is important. And so it really lights that up. And so then it actually can perpetuate it. Right. And so if we can instead learn to give attention and emotion,

to the things that we actually want, then their brain starts saying, oh, that's important, I'm gonna do more of that. Great, you're really good at this. You are so good at giving emotion to the things you want. I mean, any time there's something you want emphasized in our family or you want them to do.

that you're praising them for, you give it a lot of emotion. And sometimes we laugh about that because we're like, oh, dad's so excited about this little thing. But yet it works because there's all of this emotion involved in this thing that you want remembered. You want them to know that this is important. And it works. Yeah. Where most people, including myself previously, most people are...

very passive about the things they want and very passionate about the things they don't. And that was also my negative state and natural state. In fact, I still have to remind myself like I did this morning, like I have to be super intentional about the things I want and actually voice them or say something about them or be passionate about them because my natural...

Rachel Denning (36:31.181)
normal state is to only be passionate about the things I don't want. To get upset about the things I don't want when that just sabotages me and the family. Exactly. So you as the individual need to make sure you're in a super good place.

Because like Rachel was saying, you're radiating out an energy all the time. That your kids are picking up on. They just pick it up. It's like we have sensors. You just, you feel it. You notice it. Even if you can't articulate it, even if you wouldn't say, oh, something's off, you just, you feel it. And so it's worth examining.

your own state, your own heart, are you at peace? Well, and that's something that you have to, it's not like one and done. It's something you're constantly working on. You have to constantly be intentional about having that heart of peace or being in that state. Your general state. Like, and this isn't, I mean, obviously you're going to have some off times, but in general, what is your, what is your pred,

dominant state? What's your predominant emotion? What do you feel most of the time? I've asked that to audiences, a lot of audiences. The most common answer I get from moms and dads is that their predominant emotion, the thing they feel most often is some form of irritation or frustration. Let that sink in. If most of the time you have this underlying irritation, your...

It's no wonder your kids are fighting. Exactly. And that you're snapping. You're irritable. They're going to sense it. And that's going to become... There has to be something. And I haven't read any studies or anything. There has to be this sixth sense between parents and children. They just read and absorb.

Rachel Denning (38:46.957)
I've noticed that... If you're irritable, they'll just be irritable and that'll be their operating state. Right. And I mean, I've noticed it in our children, you know, from the time they're infants. But I've also... I'm just... I don't know if this makes it better. I've also noticed it in dogs. Like we've had puppies and I have noticed that when, you know, we'll be in a state and loving on the puppy or something. And then I remember specifically one time and...

We were driving, I think in Guatemala, and we got pulled over by police or something. And I started to get a little nervous, you know, just slightly. And the dog, the puppy, started getting nervous. And suddenly had the hiccups and was like, all nervous. I'm like, this dog is literally, and it's happened more than once where I'm like, this isn't just me thinking of it. But the same thing happens with our own children. And unless you become really aware of it, you don't think that that's actually.

a thing that's going on, but it is and they're, they are picking up on our emotional state and wellbeing. Yes. Yes. Okay. Thank you. I'm so glad you brought this up. Animals read emotions. They do. And we as human beings, like at a biological evolutionary level, we're animals as well. And we read emotions. In fact, remember I walked across that bridge in Peru.

to go wrestle the bear. Oh, yes. And he stopped me walking a plank across the moat to literally go wrestle with a bear. Greg asked if he could wrestle with a bear. This guy was like, you're out of your mind. I'm like, please let me wrestle with this bear. I want to play with it. He's like, no one's ever done that before. I'm like, please. He's like, OK, you guys are crazy. But we stopped. We're walking across the moat. He puts down a board. We're walking across this plank across the moat to go in with the bear. And he stops mid -plank. And he's like, hey, are you afraid? I'm like, no. He's like, if you're afraid.

they will sense it and they will come after you. They will know if you're afraid. They'll read what you're feeling. And man, that was just palpable from this guy who's working with him. But it's true in dogs and horses, animals can, they sense your emotion. But guess what? So do your kids. Sometimes better than you do. You don't know what's going on and they're like, mom, what's up?

Rachel Denning (40:59.309)
dad what's going on? Or they don't say anything. They can't vocalize it, they can't articulate it and so they then just often begin acting out. Fighting with their siblings or whatever because they're like I don't know what's going on but something's going on. I'm just going to take it out. Behaving in that state. Exactly. So moms and dads you guys have got to be in a good place and this is going to take some...

Again depending on where you're at. I can I can see in my mind's eye so many different wonderful clients I've worked with in different situations some of you have stuff from your past that you've not processed and you've got a heal You've got to settle that you've got to resolve it. Some of you just are super unhealthy and That unhealthiness in mentally emotionally. Yeah, well that too

You gotta get your psychology right. That's a journey. But I'm talking about just plain physical. If you just feel like crap, you look in the mirror and you don't feel good, and well, yeah, just about how you look, but also how you feel if you don't feel energetic and you don't feel alive. If you have chronic headaches or pain or just you're exhausted or tired a lot, you're not exercising, you're not eating well.

Again, it's the whole picture if you're off Which also directly impacts your mental and emotional health and physical mental and emotional health all essentially come down to your habits So really what you have to do. I mean the quick and easy answer here is You need better habits, which means you need better

morning, afternoon, and evening routines, which means you need the 28 day challenge. Yeah, exactly. That's right. I was going like so excited. Rachel's 28 day challenge starts on Sunday. Well, it's going to start every month, but it's basically going to walk through every single one of these habits that you need to be developing so that you can have this intentional emotional state you want to have instead of just the default, whatever, however you wake up and whatever happens to you and you just feel like that.

Rachel Denning (43:09.517)
That is a recipe for a disaster and that's not helping things go right. You are spending all of your time trying to fix what's going wrong and that just doesn't work. So yes, you have to get yourself in a better emotional state so that you can bring that to your relationships. Unless you have something else, I do kind of just want to go through this pyramid and address and talk about a couple of things. Yeah, go through real quick. I have a few more things I want to share. Okay. So...

At the very bottom, and this pyramid comes from the anatomy of peace, like I mentioned before, but at the very bottom of the pyramid, the very foundational piece, they call simply having a heart of peace. And that's one of the things I love about this book. In fact, this book is our 17 -year -old's favorite book. He loves this book. It's written in story form. Now our 12 -year -old is listening to it. Yeah.

It's basically told in a story, but it's teaching these principles of peace that can be used not in your own family, but literally in the world for creating world peace. But it talks about having a heart of peace, and that's where it begins. It's kind of like we were talking about a minute ago, this emotional state you're in, but it's also this idea of focusing on what you want. So if you are focusing on trying to stop the fighting because you hate the fighting and you have all this anger and passion about the fighting, that's not a heart of peace. You are literally...

You have this heart of war and anger and frustration and irritation. That's what you're bringing to the entire interaction and relationship. So you have to change your state and you have to come into a state and a heart of peace so you can bring that to what you're doing and saying. I just want to re -emphasize that. We will very often try to enforce peace with a heart at war. Exactly.

It's so ironic. And of course, it doesn't work. And then we wonder why it doesn't work. And it's often just because of our own inner state. We are not in a good place. And so our whole family operates around that. So the very first place we all have to look, if there's a lot of fighting going on in your home, you've got to look at your own heart.

Rachel Denning (45:28.749)
That's the very first place. And see, like if you're in a good place, and maybe you're not, maybe you're angry at your spouse. Maybe you're just angry at life. Maybe you're angry about finances, or fitness, or faith, or whatever. Or tied in exactly with everything we talked about before, of your mental, emotional, physical well -being, or your lack of crappy, or well, not lack of crappy, you have crappy habits. Yeah.

All of that is directly affecting your heart, your state. So that's where we begin. Then as you mentioned, maybe you're fighting with your spouse. That's the next level. You have to build supporting relationships. So you have to have support of others around you to spread whatever message you're trying to spread. It takes a network of people to help to build...

the family life you're trying to build and that the first place that begins is with your spouse of course and so if you're at war with your spouse well that's naturally going to contribute to fighting with your family so that's another place we have to look we have to resolve that we have to we have to learn how to resolve conflict with our own spouse before we can ever teach our children how to resolve conflict with their siblings.

Like that just makes obvious sense and yet often times we're not looking at that. We're fighting with our spouse. And then wondering why our kids fight. Exactly. And trying to say, don't do what I do. Well, that doesn't work. You have to model for them. And if you can't solve those relationships and those issues in your relationships, you have a way bigger problem that needs to be addressed first. And part of this relationship, we're building this team.

You might hear that and think, oh man, I got to build this network outside of my kids so that I can help my kids. But your kids are included in this. Building a relationship with each of your kids now brings them into the network of helping things go right. Exactly. It's incredible how much any one of your kids, no matter what age, can actually contribute to the positivity. Well, they contribute to the problem or the peace.

Rachel Denning (47:43.725)
the solution depending on how this network is playing out. Like it's, it's fun and exciting to watch our kids participate in proactively helping the peace, keep the peace, right? They are peacekeepers and peacemakers and it's awesome. They're at all levels. Like they're, they're participating in the solution. Do not, please do not.

treat your kids as passive pawns who are just there to participate and be acted upon. They are players on this team. And you've got to get them into the network. And then that of course ties into the next layer of the pyramid, which is specifically building the individual relationships. Because if you're having a problem with a child who's misbehaving or fighting,

Again, back to this idea, their needs are not being met. And I do this automatically now. It took time for me to get to this point. But now, if I have a child who is acting out, the first thing I focus on is what can I do personally to improve my personal relationship with this child.

Do I need to cuddle with them more? Do I need to spend more time playing games with them? Do I need to listen to them? Do I need to allow them to share their point of view? Do I need to, like what is it I need to do to build the relationship with this child? Because if I can do that, I'm helping things go right and the problem will take care of itself more often than not.

OK, I have to interject there because I've heard so many people tell me, I don't have time for that. Like, I'm so busy. I have so much to take care of. I have to take care of everything else. Like, I can't just drop everything and give that child attention. OK.

Rachel Denning (49:41.869)
That's a whole... If you think you don't have time for that, try having time to fix all the problems that are going to result. That are going to be huge down the road. So you pay for it one way or the other. You honestly do. We think we don't have time to do those things.

And I felt that way before. There's been times when I'm like, I don't have time to sit here and do this right now with this kid because I need to do XYZ. When the reality is we're going to pay for it now or we're going to pay for it later. It's an ounce of prevention or a pound of cure. Like a ton of regret on the back. So.

Anytime you feel tempted to think like that, just think either I'm gonna pay now or I'm gonna pay later and it's gonna be a bigger price tag later. It just is. And part of that is many of you say yes to too many things. You've got to say no to more stuff. You gotta drop crap from your schedule. You're way too busy. You have too much going on. You gotta drop it. Especially if you don't have time to talk to your kids to solve problems. If you don't have time to spend time with your children,

Like your life is a mess. Like that's your number one, you've gotta have time for that. If you don't have time for your family, you gotta say no to a lot of other things and get your life in order and get organized and outsourced and get, again, I'm coming, the 28 day challenge, man, is what this whole thing is for. The systems, the charts, the strategies, it's getting your life in order so you always have time for the most important people and things.

But you've got to get dialed in. You've got to let other people help with the things that have to be done, including your kids or hiring people outside. You've got to get you and your life all in order so you can do these most important things. Again, these are easy fixes. You just go upstream a little bit and be like, what's the problem here? I'm like, well, I got to do this and I got to do that. I got to do this and I have to do this. And so you're running like crazy, running around taking care of all these.

Rachel Denning (51:43.149)
all the stuff and things outside of your home to the absolute neglect inside your home. Yeah. And we've seen this time and again. Like people, parents are so busy with everything else that is not directly connected to their personal relationships with their spouse or children and then wondering why they're having problems and wanting you to fix them with some quick fix and you're like, you need to go back to the source and actually start from there. But...

Unfortunately, a lot of people, not a lot, some people aren't willing to do that. And then of course, like you alluded to earlier, this family whose life is literally falling apart with horrible, terrible things, it's because they weren't willing to pay the price before. They weren't willing to go back to the source and do what it takes. Okay, couple more things.

Building the relationship, part of building the relationship on the next level of pyramid is listening and learning. You have to learn about your child's life. You have to get their viewpoint. I'll use another example from yesterday. My 12 -year -old, he's been a little disappointed because his older brother and sister have gone down scuba diving with his dad. They're getting certified and you have to be 15 to do it so he can't do it so he has to stay home with the younger kids.

And it's been a disappointment for him. And yesterday he was, he had a little bit of an attitude about it because they went down to finish up their certification. And he was, he had said he was done with his studies and I had been paying attention at the time and I thought, oh, I thought we agreed upon four hours. It hasn't been four hours. What's going on? And he got into this, got into this discussion.

where he was basically saying it's not fair and all this type of stuff. And at first, I got to pause right here. Yes. Super crazy important to remember, wait a minute, what's happening is a symptom of something else. This isn't the issue. The issue isn't the issue. Right. And you've got to be, you've got to be cognizant of this. You have to be aware of what's going on. Like, wait, there's behavior going on here. What is it? And if you just go in like, hey, stop this. I told you so. You do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Rachel Denning (54:01.133)
you miss the whole thing, but if you go in like, wait a minute, okay, I'm guessing there's something, he's upset about something else and it's being manifest in this behavior. And specifically because the agreement we have is when he's done, he gets to watch engineering videos on YouTube for an hour. And I wasn't ready for him to do that because I felt like he hadn't done the agreed upon amount of study time.

So we were having this conversation about it and I was feeling some frustration and he was feeling some frustration so I went to my room to think about it for a second and be like, okay, what's the real problem here? What's the solution? And I just, one, thought, okay, I need to get his point of view. What is he feeling is the problem as far as this miscommunication with education? And two, what's an easy fix?

And immediately I had this thought come to my mind and then I went downstairs and I talked to him. I said, what's, why are you bothered by this thing? And he told me, he said it's because of this. And I thought, okay, that makes sense. And then I said, so can we agree that in the tracking system here it shows your progress and once you've done this for the day then that works? And he said yes. And so immediately we had this agreed upon solution and I looked at it. He had actually, he had already been watching that.

and I hadn't, and he'd already completed all of the necessary work for that day for three of the classes. One was one lesson short, so I said, oh, okay, this one's short. All right, I'll go do that. And it was that easy. And now we have this agreed upon measurement.

of how it's gonna work, and the solution was simple, right? But it required me also, instead of just saying, I make the rules, I'm in charge, you know, we have this approach that we take as parents of being the rule makers. We have to listen to our children and understand why they're feeling the way they are. Why are they putting up this resistance? Because in his mind, he had it this certain way of like, oh, I've been watching this, I've been doing this amount of work, and that's, to me, is sufficient.

Rachel Denning (56:08.685)
because that's how my siblings do it. And when I listen and understand, now I can see the cause of the problem and then it's easy to come up with a solution that works for everybody. So we have to be able to listen and learn. The same is going to be true and every time your kids are fighting. Right. Exactly. You've got to listen and learn why are they fighting? Yeah. What's going on? Especially if it's chronic. If this sibling and this sibling are just constantly each other's throat like...

What's happening? Why is that happening? It's not always just about the exact thing. Well, he took this toy and she said this. That's the start of it, but we have to look past that and be like, okay. And I sometimes will use, I will narrate for them and say, so are you feeling this way because of that? And then they'll say yes or no or whatever and they'll expand upon it. So I'm trying to help them find a voice for their feelings and articulate.

what they feel is happening and going on. In that instance, be sure to ask more questions than make declarative statements. It's easy sometimes to tell them what you think they're feeling, and they'll just kind of go along and just ask and help them learn how to say what's happening so you can get down to the cause of the problem. Right.

Okay, just a couple more things. The last one is teach and communicate, which is kind of what we're talking about there. We have to teach them. We have to communicate. We have to show them how to resolve conflicts. They're not gonna naturally know how to do that. When their needs are being met, they are gonna be in a natural state of peace, but when conflict comes, they don't automatically know how to resolve it. We don't know how to, often. And so we have to learn how, and then we have to teach and communicate those skills.

to them, so I'm very often, when I'm, am resolving issues, I'm walking them through the process of resolving the problem, and showing them through word and action how to do it. And the very final thing, the last thing we should ever have to do is to try to correct the actual issue, the actual thing that's going wrong.

Rachel Denning (58:24.173)
When we're trying to fix that thing, when we're trying to stop the fighting, that's the tippy top of the pyramid and the last thing that we should be doing. Everything else before that helps things go right and that's where we should be spinning.

80 to 90 % of our time. And I would say 80 to 90 % of correcting is in that next level down you just covered of teaching. Listening and learning and teaching and communicating. Like if you can teach them, that's real correction instead of you're in trouble, I'm punishing you. Time out. Like we don't do time outs. We don't ground our kids. We don't do spankings. Like we honestly, at this point in our life, there's very little disciplining. And we have it for years.

We haven't had to discipline our kids for years because the correction is in the teaching and re -emphasizing the focus of who they want to be as people and then teaching them how to do that.

And they're like, well, I didn't like that she did that. And so I, OK, well, how might you handle that differently? What could you have done differently? How could you say that better? What voice could you use instead of that voice that you used? Instead of reacting, how could you gently respond? And that kind of teaching is so powerful in correcting behavior for the long term. So I guess it's important to emphasize that.

scuffles will happen. Like if you live with another human being, you're going to bump against each other. Like especially true when you start out marriage, because you got your way of doing things, your spouse had your way of doing things, and you have this magical ideal that like, well, my spouse will do things my way. Exactly. Without ever articulating that or addressing it. And then it comes up, you're like, you do what? And so you start realizing, oh, I have to live with another human being.

Rachel Denning (01:00:22.221)
and their weaknesses and foibles and preferences. And you have to start working through that. Your kids are having the same experience. They just come into life, and there's a whole bunch of them, and they're just trying to figure out how to live with each other and how to have stuff and things and space and preferences and how to work that out. And how to live. When we think about it like this, you have one toddler trying to live with another toddler. And they're like, are you kidding me? Did you just do that?

Because I don't like when you do that. And you have two little toddlers trying to figure out how to live with each other and their little things. And so often, again, circling all the way back to the very beginning, if needs are being met, kids through every age, from toddler to teen, they'll be best friends.

They will love being with each other and they'll play and they'll get along and they'll love the companionship. I think a good example of that with especially younger children, toddlers, is that when their needs are met, they are pleasant and parents I think intuitively know this and yet when they misbehave, they don't think about that. Like if they have enough sleep and enough food and you know, they're happy, they're for the most part good and when they start to act out, it's because those basic needs are they need to

a nap or they need some food. And so if we can remember that and apply that and take that into consideration and have that be our primary response, oh, you're upset? Let's see if you need a snack or if you need to take a nap or you just need some cuddling. And that actually scales with the rest of your children on some level, even my nine -year -old, my six -year -old. If they start squabbling again,

That's one of the first things I look at. It's the same with the teens. It's the same with us. Same with me. Exactly. I need a snack. We need some food right now. Parents, we know you get hangry. And so do your kids. And they don't, they're not going to necessarily articulate it that, oh, I'm hangry right now. But if my six -year -old is acting up, I'm like, oh, she probably needs a snack or something. And that's where I begin. And so we have to look at it that way. We have to start with the basics and fulfill those needs because that's just going to make things.

Rachel Denning (01:02:35.469)
Go right. I think it's important to point out something here. It's so subtle and yet so significant. You said, if you start to notice something, you say, let's see what needs might not being met. I've seen a lot of parents take this approach of, we're going to force the needs to be met. This child will take a nap at this time every day.

This kid will eat this thing and you'll eat it because that's my rules. I'm making sure your needs are met. And with the best of intentions, That's not what we're talking about. The parent establishes rules that actually start to cause real problems and resentment in the family. Yes. And they're out, you know, you're out having activity, you're out doing fun things. And you say, nope, Kairosh, we're shutting this all down because we got to go back and do this. And they're all sitting there saying, well, why?

And the parents are like, well, this is because that's why we do things. And if you push it, say, well, why do you do things? Well, you want to prevent a problem. It's like, well, do you see any problem? There's no problem. Everything's going great. Why would you end a perfectly good family experience because something might go wrong? Don't do that. Don't sabotage it. Yeah. And this is where it can get tricky because we're trying to teach you to be intentional, but it's almost this.

reactive intentionality. If that makes sense. We're not trying to be so intentional that we're inflexible. There has to be flexibility, especially in family life. Family life is all about flexibility with routine and structure underneath it. So it's like this undergirding structure of routine that acts out in flexibility. So it's the real yin and yang. It's the balance of chaos and order. And so it seems,

counterintuitive in some ways of like, oh, we need to make sure needs are met and fulfill, you know, naps and all of this. We're not talking about rigid structure.

Rachel Denning (01:04:41.869)
because that also backfires. We're talking about awareness. And for me, that's the best description of the word because you have to practice awareness. You have to be present in what's happening and pay attention to the small things that are going on and then respond appropriately to those things because in a similar situation, say you're out and about having a great time with the family and the baby starts to act up or whatever,

it's perfectly okay to voice that and say, hey, family, I'm noticing that the baby's getting upset. We're probably gonna need to go make them have a nap sometime. And plus, we've done it in ways where we just help our baby sleep wherever, right? So they can take a nap while the rest of us keep enjoying the activity. But you're communicating that with your network of support because it's not like when your children learn to love and respect you and...

they want to help you create peace in the family. And if that means the baby needs a nap, then we accommodate that, right? We find a solution for that. But it's not just... But if your solutions suck, like play this out. The other kids, without knowing it, they begin to resent each other. Yes. Because, oh my goodness, it's so -and -so's fault that this amazing experience is being cut short.

Really, it's the way you are handling that as a parent. This is so important. Because families will come and be like, hey, we need help. And I'm like, let's look at your systems. And the systems are an absolute mess. Then other families will come and they'll say, I need help with the same problem. I'll say, let's look at your systems. And the systems are all in place, but they're so rigid. They're so ineffective. I'm like, oh, there's the problem. Like, oh, on this side.

It's a total lack of systems. A total chaos. A chaos. On the other side. Too much order. Yeah, so much. It's like they hate it, they resent it, it doesn't work. All your systems actually don't work because of your implementation is ineffective. And I think the bridge that connects those two to make it so it actually works is this piece of awareness. Of being aware of how...

Rachel Denning (01:07:00.941)
chaos and order are affecting the family. And when you've got too much order, that's affecting the family and it can affect them negatively. And when you have too much chaos, that can affect them negatively. You have to find the right balance for your family between chaos and order, between rigidity and flexibility, so that you can balance this life. It's like I was explaining to my nine -year -old the other day. We went to these ruins here in Turkey.

incredible ancient Greek, Roman, Byzantine ruins. And we bought these little necklaces and she bought one that had the yin and yang on it. So we were talking about the yin and yang. And I was saying, it's like walking. You can't walk unless you pick up one foot or the other. You have to be picking them up. So you pick up chaos and then you pick up order and then you pick up chaos and you pick up order. And it provides this, you're off balance for a time.

Literally that's what walking is. You are off balance most of the time. You're on one foot. You're not standing solidly on both feet. You can't walk like that. You have to lift up your feet in order to move forward. And you have to put one foot in front of the other to make progress. And so that's kind of how I practice awareness is being aware of, paying attention to where am I right now? Am I in too much chaos or too much order? And I'm going back and forth just like when I'm taking steps.

to maintain that balance and that forward motion. I'm moving forward through that process of going back and forth between chaos and order. And that's what helps me progress. I love that. If I might be just absolutely blunt here for a moment. Many parents are clueless when it comes to awareness. They just lack total...

self -awareness and they lack situational awareness. They're either so distracted or so disturbed or whatever, so hungry, so sleep deprived, so anything. You guys know how this works. Like your spouse says or does something and you're so, you're so caught up about that or something at work or the neighbor, whatever. Like your mind is just consumed by this thing. You're not even present.

Rachel Denning (01:09:25.389)
Or are you just scrolling online? Or you're wishing you were somewhere else or whatever. You just, you haven't learned how to manage and direct your own thinking and your own awareness. You've got to get this dialed in and not so you're so intense and you're just, it's too much awareness again, right? Now it's, again, here's the problem. Well, you're not aware enough and oh man, you're being too aware. Like you're so zoned in and...

An intense awareness, it's exhausting you. You're like, I can't sustain this much awareness. I can't focus like this. It's wearing you out. Just learn to be present and watch and observe and learn how to reach in just the right touch. Some of you, literally in a little moment that's happening, maybe a little bit of friction with your kids, the softest touch would be enough. And you guys are throwing punches. Or somebody used the...

You know, I don't even like using the gun thing, but the metaphor works. Like, a BB gun would do the trick when you pull out a cannon. And you're like, whoa! Like, no, stop! Learn how to use a soft word and then a gentle touch. And every once in a great while, you gotta grab the kid and pull him aside and say, hey, let's gotta stop. Let's go over here and let's take care of this.

But that only works when you have that pyramid of peace built underneath it because you're doing all the other things to help things go right. And of course it also is different for every child. I mean, I have some children where I have to say the slightest thing and that's almost too much. Like one of my kids, you know, he's grown up now, but the slightest thing when I just have to say, hey, you know what?

Gentle reminder. I really need this and I've been doing a lot for you and he's, oh, you're right, mom. I'm so sorry. Yes, I'll do it. It's the slightest thing. But others, it takes a little more for them. So you have to figure that out too with each child. Some of them need a little more firmness and some of them just need the slightest reminder. Our 17 -year -old now is, he's the best kid.

Rachel Denning (01:11:34.573)
He's the oldest at home right now. Unbelievable. At home in Turkey. Just not a single problem. Just nothing but pride and joy with that kid. He is just all around phenomenal. But for a few years, man, like...

we would say one thing to the older kid and he would respond and we'd say something to him and he'd just smirk and stick his tongue out like whatever. You had to like, look, boy, this is how things are gonna be. Like we really had to really emphasize things before we respond. And it was never ugly. We never had to do that, but.

you had to approach him differently. Yeah. And now, oh my goodness, it just works out perfectly. So I know this is going long, and I'm glad you guys are here and listening. There's so much to this as you're seeing. But I want to share a few more things. I made a little list here, and there's some little points here that I think this is good news. Some of the fighting that's happening among your kids literally could be the quality of your food.

That's huge. It might be just... And the quality of their sleep. Well, that's the next one I was going to get to. It might be just what you're eating. I know some of you, again, this strict rigidity, I see this, I'm like, what in the world? Like, a lot of parents absolutely refuse. They will not give their kids snacks or food that you have three strict meals and that's when we eat in this home.

I've never understood that, but I've seen it a lot. And I thought like, wow, what happens if one kid's metabolism doesn't cut it? And you start noticing, well, that man, they're always fighting around this time of the day or getting upset or being in trouble. Like it might just be, they need some nutrients.

Rachel Denning (01:13:40.653)
Well, that's interesting. They need some snacks, healthy snacks. That's interesting that you point that out because that is definitely something we've unconsciously incorporated into our parenting. For us, there are no meal times and there are no snack times. Our general rule through most of our married life has been you eat when you're hungry and you stop when you're full. And I don't care if you're hungry at 9 a .m. or 12 p .m. or whatever. When you are hungry, you eat. And so our kids know that, that anytime they...

feel hunger, they're allowed to go get a snack. Pretty much anything we have because we don't buy anything that we don't want them eating. So they just go get a snack at any time. So that also does help things go right because we're not dealing with hangar.

much of the time. It's a non -issue because the human body goes, oh, I need some nutrients. Right. And they go get some healthy nutrients. Part of your problem is you've got a pantry full of crap. And the toxins, the garbage in there, literally cause behavior problems. And you don't want your kids eating it. Okay, yeah. So then there's a fight over... There's a fight over the food. A lot of this stuff is literally you're sabotaging yourself by not setting up your environment for success.

And so if you can eliminate those things, you've eliminated half the problems. If you can say, eat whenever you're hungry so you're not hangry and upset and fighting with your sibling and eat whatever you want because everything in the house is healthy food, there you go. Two major problems solved. Massive. But if you're hiding a stash of cookies on the top shelf and you're saying, no, have an apple or a cucumber, they're like, I want a cookie. And you.

cause the fight. Right. That's gonna keep happening. When we're saying snacks or anytime, most of the time our six year old who eats the most snacks is eating apples, bananas, cucumbers, red peppers. That's what they eat most or cheese. Like that's what they eat most of the night. I'll cook up a steak and she'll throw out a steak. Hard boiled eggs. Oh she eats eggs like crazy. Love it. So have tons of healthy stuff. Now some of you are like, oh we can't afford to just let him eat all he can. Figure out how to afford that.

Rachel Denning (01:15:50.221)
And it honestly might cost you less than you think because then we only eat two, I would say really only two official meals per day. Breakfast and a late lunch, early dinner. And lots of good healthy snacks. So let them eat. So a lack of food could be causing your problems. And I bet that's a big deal, especially when a kid's growing and they'll go through these growth spurts. They have to have calories and nutrients.

If you're withholding that, you're causing your problems. You're malnourishing them, honestly. And you can potentially stunt their growth. And their brain development. And brain development. So check it, make sure they're getting, and nutrient dense. Some of you are like, you pick some weird eating scheme. I'll just be honest, like vegetarian and vegan is - Is basically malnourishment. It's malnourishment. It's a diet of malnourishment. So if you're trying to get your kids to be that way, and I know this is gonna rile some of you, but there's just not nutrient density.

that your kids need to really grow and develop. To grow and develop, especially during these critical years of growth and development. So part of your problem is going to be that. I want to share this because I think this illustrates it well. And we've shared our story in our What Should You Eat podcast, but what I talk about is that we've gone through multiple diets. I mean, we were almost raw at one time and vegetarian and all these things. And...

There was one period of time during our life when we were not drinking milk and we weren't doing hardly any dairy products. He would sometimes have butter in the house for if we were making pancakes or whatever. And the same kid that's now 17, he used to sneak and go eat the butter. Like he just...

had to have that butter. And at the time we're like, oh my gosh, that's so terrible. You're gonna have a heart attack or you know, cause we believed all these lies about butter being bad for you. And the truth was his body was craving those nutrients and fats, especially because fats are huge for brain development. And in fact, grass -fed butter is one of the best things you can eat for growing and developing brains. So let your kids have as much grass -fed butter as they want.

Rachel Denning (01:18:03.277)
He was craving that and he needed it and so he did what he needed to get it and he would go in and sneak and eat just he would just eat plain butter. This is I think you're exactly right very often contributing to some of your problems. If your children feel like in some way they are being malnourished which they're never going to articulate that but if they're not getting the nutrients they need it is going to directly impact their behavior. Absolutely. It will often be fighting. Yes. It will be some kind of fight.

So don't, and I can't, we went through this, but if you have margarine in the fridge and you're like, oh, eat as much you want, it's not the same. If you have low quality crap, it is not the same. So make sure they're getting good food. So Rachel mentioned sleep already. Make sure that you're all sleeping well and train yourself and your kids to be able to sleep well anywhere in the world. Whether you're on a beach or camping in the mountains or in an Airbnb or a hotel or whatever, just learn how to sleep and sleep well. Get your.

butts to bed and sleep. This, ooh, I can go off on this one. On my podcast, the Be A Man podcast, I interviewed a sleep expert. Go listen to that. The way sleeping and nose breathing, like dramatically altering behavior. I don't know, this is the first place I'm like, look at food, I'm gonna sleep. If your kids aren't getting any sleep, they're not getting to bed on time, they don't have good bedtime routines. And every child needs different amounts of sleep.

If you're not watching that and if you're not doing it, oh man, this could be a major part of your problem. Which ties into, I mean, another thing that we do automatically. I often forget that we do these things, but we do them intentionally and they have an impact. We never wake our kids up. They're allowed to wake up naturally whenever they wake up.

And that is critical because it's helping them get all of the recovery that they need. And when you're allowed to wake up naturally instead of to an alarm or because mom says to get up, that has a major impact on your behavior throughout the day because you were able to complete your sleep cycle and get all of the recovery that you needed. And I hear some of you saying, well, not everyone can live like that, Rachel. I couldn't either. We have schedules. We have routines. We have all these things to do. And to that, I would respond lovingly.

Rachel Denning (01:20:19.919)
but firmly, drop anything and everything you need to drop. I'm dead serious. And it sounds insane and yet this is the key and the secret to creating something extraordinary. And we get it. We haven't always been able to live like that but we intentionally worked very hard to design a lifestyle so that we now have that freedom. We have the freedom, all of us, to wake up whenever we want.

wake up whenever we are naturally rested. But it's not because we're lucky, we're just won the lottery on that. We've intentionally created that. We've been very deliberate about doing things to help us have that freedom. And it has an impact, it really does. When we look at our life where we have very little to no fighting between anyone in the house,

We have great attitudes. We have amazing children who are cooperative, helpful, grateful. I mean, honestly, we have an amazing life. All of these elements play a major part. And so we don't want to downplay their significance and say, oh, well, if you can't do that too bad.

That's our point. That's why we have this Extraordinary Family Life podcast because we're trying to show and demonstrate and tell you about all of the elements of an extraordinary family life. And if you don't have them, I get it. But you can work towards having them. That's the point. You have the power to be intentional, to create the life that you want to live. And if you don't have the freedom to do the things that you would like to do, you can take actions to create more freedom.

Ooh, you guys, I could, I'm feeling the fire on this one. And I'm going to maybe attack some sacred cows right here. Some of you are like, well, the kids got to get to school. They got to go to these early classes. Starting school early is the dumbest idea. When you understand sleep and the necessity for sleep and what sleep deprivation does to a kid, just sleep deprivation on a regular level.

Rachel Denning (01:22:31.693)
can take 10 to 15 years off of your life. Not to mention that one hour of sleep deprivation leads to one grade level of brain functioning. So essentially your brain is functioning at least one grade level lower than it is when you have adequate sleep. Your cognitive abilities drop.

Your development drops. And this isn't stuff you get back later. Like, oh, well, they'll miss out for this while. You can't catch up on it. It'll be for this time, and they'll make up for it. You don't. You can't. You just miss it. It's either you got it that night or you didn't. And the growth hormone you get by getting to bed on time, the deep sleep recovery and cleansing, like your cells at a cellular level are rebuilding themselves, recreating everything in your brain and your body. You don't get that back. Your kids don't get it back. So you're sitting there saying, well, they've got to get up early for this.

early morning religious class or whatever, that is the... and I'm attacking a sacred cow here... that is the dumbest idea to force your kids to get up early. Especially teens. So where they're missing out on critical sleep for their health and development, I'm not even kidding. And this isn't me. This isn't my opinion. Go look at the research and you're thinking, yeah, but it's...

It's for this great thing. You're like, yeah, are you willing to cut 10 years off the end of their life for that? There's other ways to get that done. Man, oh, I get so fired up because you're harming them in so many ways and causing so many problems. We think, well, it has to happen. You're doing it wrong. Figure out another way to do it. And if...

If there's no other option, literally no other option, then it becomes your sacred family religion to get your butts in bed at 9 p .m. Yes. Yeah, that's the only answer if you decide you're going to do it. You must be in bed. Lights out, internet off, power off, device is turned in, everybody gets to bed at 9.

Rachel Denning (01:24:35.981)
maybe even earlier because a teenager actually needs about 10 to 12 hours of sleep and so they need to be in bed. There's different numbers on that. So you can get into the different numbers of things, but they need sleep. Yes. They need a lot of sleep and it needs to be good quality. Most of them are staying up and again, I work with youth every day. Most of them are staying up to 11, 12, 1, 2, 3 commonly. They tell me this, their parents don't know about it. They tell me parents are clueless thinking their kids gone to bed. They're not.

They're up, wait, chitty -chatting, doing whatever, looking online, watching videos, snap, like all this stuff. And then you're waking them up, the butt crack is done. Their brain development's gone, their body development's gone. Like you, there's a lot of serious, serious damage being done. This is huge. It's eight to 12, eight to 10 hours for teenagers and it's 10 to 12 for - For little ones. And they'll get that, yeah, they'll get that. Okay. But that's the thing, even the young kids aren't getting that because parents are waking them up. Yeah.

with some arbitrary or for even homeschool when if you are homeschooling you should be allowing your children to sleep as long as they need. Now that's not talking about the teen who sleeps until noon. That's just no that's insane. But again it's it's that's a part of a bigger problem. So music media movies.

the music you have going in your house, the media you are consuming as a parent and that your kids are consuming and the movies can absolutely contribute to the way they treat each other in fighting. Especially if they're watching shows that have poor sibling interactions as a model. Because they mimic it. Yeah, they do mimic it. Now,

One answer, of course, could be the rigid, well, my kids just aren't gonna watch that, and that can be hard to enforce nowadays. My approach has been to pay attention and to bring awareness to it and actually voice it. Like, have you been, and I'll say that to my girls, that they've been, you know, being sassy or whatever, but have you been watching something that...

Rachel Denning (01:26:49.101)
showing this type of behavior so that they start paying attention and then they know that that's not okay because you can't, like we've talked about before, you can't cut out everything in the world and not expose them to it. They're gonna be exposed to that. But if you help them be aware of, oh, actually that's not appropriate. Actually you shouldn't talk to people like that. So then if and when they do see it, they pay attention and then they're...

they're aware enough to say, oh, well, just because they do that doesn't mean I'm OK to do it. It's amazing, baby. Even little cartoons, these seemingly innocent cartoons, have these horrible sibling or friend interactions. Most shows have horrible interactions. Snarky, sarcastic. It's terrible. If your kids don't know that that's just wretched behavior, they see it. And without thinking, they model it. They mimic it. So you have to make sure like, oh,

And notice it again, the awareness that you're talking about. Like, that little crap, I heard that little, where does that come from? Yeah, where did you get that? Did you watch something? In a cartoon. Like, what in the, they literally talk to each other like that? And you're teaching and modeling. Again, watch your language, watch your attitude, watch your sarcasm, watch the way you talk about other people, because they'll turn around and talk to each other that way. They're going to watch that. Next, again, I got to hit these things. We're going long. Occupation.

Kids need an occupation. They need something to be occupied with. It needs to be meaningful, fulfilling. They need to be doing things that are good. If they feel unfulfilled, again, they cannot articulate it. If they feel unfulfilled or they're not occupied with either, they don't have anything to occupy them or something good or beneficial, fulfilling, it creates a hole. That they fill with? This vacuum in their soul.

and they don't like themselves, but they can't articulate it. They don't know. They just feel off and it results in fighting. They need fulfillment. Well, I've noticed that again and again with my two youngest are a good example because they're not very far apart. And so if there's likely to be any friction, it's happening there. And if they are...

Rachel Denning (01:28:55.821)
not, like you said, occupied with doing something creative or active or fun, the natural result is trouble. They're going to be bickering about, she touched me, she did this, she did that. That's what's going to happen if they're not engaged in something meaningful or purposeful. So you have to be paying a...

That's another solution of helping things go right. Instead of getting after them for the fighting, redirect their attention to, hey, let's do a craft. Let's do this project. Why don't you get out the clay? Why don't you get out the paints? Why don't you do something that a lot of times can resolve the issue? And let your kids self -direct. Offer the tools, the resources, the options. Some of you parents think you have to do everything with your kids or for your kids. Like, oh, I know.

I need an occupation for every one of my kids, and I have to do it with everyone. And now you just wear yourself completely out, and your kid doesn't learn how to play and be creative and figure things out because you're doing everything for them. You're even playing for them in many cases. Like, stop. Give them some resources. Say, here, let's go play this out. Kids are amazing. The natural state is they'll figure things out, and they'll play, and they'll work it all. That's awesome. Some of you are.

drastically under -parenting and some of you are drastically over -parenting. And it's wearing you out either way and it's causing more conflict. And when they say, well, I don't know how to do this or I need help or whatever, okay, but that's when I'm like, you've got to figure it out. I'll buy this for you, I'll provide this for you, but this is your job, not mine. You need to figure it out.

And then I will, you know, pull up a YouTube video or whatever. And that helps too, because then I get to watch someone show them how to do it. And you're not the one that has to do it. But then they also learn how to learn like, oh, if I want to learn something, I can look it up. I can find the resource online. You're teaching them how to live. Yeah, it's awesome. We mentioned fulfillment purpose meaning they have to be doing things that are fulfilling, or just I think divinely human beings including including children feel this, this deep.

Rachel Denning (01:31:07.757)
unrest and discontent and this loathing if they're not doing things that are fulfilling and meaningful and gratifying. We put them in a state of flow. We can do an entire podcast and more just on this. There has to be a sense of fulfillment. That's why you have to be doing challenging things, important things, big things. If your life is just frivolous froth.

If what they do, what you do, like has no meaning or real purpose.

There's an emptiness there that is an irritant and it shows up in fighting and contention and unrest. There's so much there. Well, on purpose and meaning, I think it's important to point out is different, can be different for each child. So one might find a lot of meaning in learning an instrument or another one likes coloring or painting or drawing or building things. So it's this getting in the state of flow.

where you're engaged in the project and kind of losing a sense of time and space, that provides that sense of fulfillment and meaning. And so the more activities we can help our kids get into that do that, the more fulfilled they will feel. Yep, absolutely. Another thing is who they're associating with. You might have them going to preschools or classes or co -ops or sports or music lessons or whatever.

And they may be interacting with people that are snarky and bad attitudes and tough stuff. Sadly, the worst things our kids have been exposed to, the worst poor behaviors and youth that are just not living well, the worst exposure in the 50 countries we've been to and all over the world wandering, seeing every walk of life, the worst attitudes we've been exposed to is in church.

Rachel Denning (01:33:00.973)
That's because our kids don't go to school. Well, yeah, right. So we take our kids to go participate in church stuff. And they come back, and they're like, oh my goodness. And they tell us what they heard and saw and what was exemplified. And I'm like, this is, and the worst food. It's like, what is the deal with churches offering deadly food? It's like they want to get you to heaven as fast as possible.

Let's feed these people deadly food and then teach them about salvation. So the worst stuff my kids have been offered at church, too. My goodness. So watch who they're associating with. Neighbor kids, whatever. Just keep an eye on this. And then maybe the last thought here is outlets. Every kid needs an outlet. Every human needs an outlet. Every adult needs some kind of outlet. Outlet for emotion, frustration, joy, creativity, talking.

Our little girls, they're in this state right now, they're just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, they, they talk, oh my goodness, they talk, they love to talk. They've got an outlet for talking. Boys, boys are built for battles and adventures and many girls are too. So at least, well no, all of our kids and me, we need adventure. We need rough, tough.

difficult things. Even this morning we were doing a hard workout. My son's like, I gotta run. I'm like, let's go. And we're up in the mountains. And so we ran and ran and ran. We were, we were hurting, man. It was awesome.

Because we were, I just kept running and I knew he was hurting, because I was hurting, and we just kept running uphill through these rough like lava rock everywhere, ducking trees and bushes and plants and turtles and snakes and it was wild adventure. And we were just running and hurting and running and hurting and pushing our limits. Our muscles were burning, our hearts pounding, our lungs were burning. And he was like, this is awesome.

Rachel Denning (01:34:52.973)
And I was like, OK, should we take a trail back or just bushwhack? And he's like, of course the bushes. Let's go. And so we're just bombing through these really thorny bushes. Yeah, they are thorny. It is like a deadly place around here. And he loves it. Loves it. And kids love to wrestle. Your kids need to be roughhousing and wrestling all the time, sons and daughters. That's an outlet. It's so important. It's actually key to their brain development.

That's massive. That has to be happening. And you're like, well, I don't do that. Well, figure it out. Overcome yourself. And get over yourself. And your kids need roughhousing. So figure it out. And you also need to learn how to use your body in ways that helps you map the world. But again, you might have like, well, our house, we don't do that. You're actually causing the problem. So your kids literally might be fighting each other because you haven't provided an outlet for them to be.

rough and tumble and dirty and adventurous and for boys especially to break things and tear things down and climb things and jump things and destroy things and bury things and like whatever. And to be loud and be boisterous. If you don't take them into nature, if you don't take them into places where they can wrestle or fight or whatever, then they have this just constant buildup.

of tension that's coming out in your home and you're wondering why your kids fight. That's why they fight because you're not giving them an outlet. They don't have a healthy outlet. It's going to come out in your home. And then it carries with them into adulthood. This is kind of a funny example, but this is what I thought of when it happened.

because of some recent podcasts I'd listened to by Jordan Peterson and stuff on rough housing and the importance of that kind of play. And we had gone to this water park and we took our kids here in Turkey. It was in Antalya.

Rachel Denning (01:36:47.757)
and they had this little ride that the girls, my little girls wanted to go on. It was a little boat that goes on this track and it has these little guns that you can shoot water from the boat to the land and from the land to the boat. And I got on the boat with my two little girls. I'm fully dressed in my normal clothes. I've got my leather purse. I've got my phone. I'm wearing my sun hat. Like I'm not dressed for water play, right? And I thought, oh, no big deal. I won't get wet. There's...

There's no one to shoot me, my family's gone, you know, but there was this grown man who took on the position that he was gonna shoot everyone with his water gun. And so when I came by, he literally sat there and shot me with water for as long as he could until I was out of reach.

And I thought, this is so fascinating that this grown man fills this need to shoot a strange foreign woman, fully dressed, because she's an easy target. And I thought, what is? And what I thought at the time was, I bet he didn't get enough rough and tumble play as a kid because I had just listened to this podcast.

And they talk about how when you don't have these needs fulfilled, and that's one way that we map the world as human beings, we learn how to have proper social interactions. And they were talking about how this plays out in adult life and in romantic relationships and in our interactions with other human beings, that when we don't have enough of this type of play...

it has effects in our life. And so that was the thing I thought of, of like, this poor guy, he needs more rough and tonal play because then those needs that were not met.

Rachel Denning (01:38:33.837)
come out and are expressed in other ways. And for him it was like, oh, well this is a safe place for me to share a little bit of this aggression. I'm gonna shoot people with the water gun because I can, because they're captive and I can get them. It's kind of this, you know, deep impulse of fulfilling this need that was never met. And so... And a total misunderstanding of social cues and appropriate social behavior. Yeah, right. Right.

And so it was kind of fascinating, but it's true though. It really does have an impact. I would have roughhoused with that guy. I know, you would have. I'd be like, sir, I think you lack some roughhousing as a child. Let's you and I go over here on the grass and I talk to you about shooting my wife. But I think we really do need to understand that you're right.

we have to help our children fulfill their needs. And one of those, one of the reasons kids may be fighting is because they're not able to have rough and tumble play, especially for boys.

in other areas of their life. But even with our little girls, I mean, they love to wrestle with you. And that helps them to have better behavior. It's key. It's critical. So moms don't get upset at dad for wrestling with the kids because they need it. They really do need that play. And it is going to help things go right so that you have less time trying to fix things that have gone wrong.

I see this play out a ton if dad's gone to work and mom's in charge, but mom just doesn't understand her sons and her sons drive this, they're built for battles. And if the mom just doesn't get that, obviously, because she shouldn't, she's a mom, but don't try to force your boys to be girls. And give them an outlet. If you don't want them doing it in a certain way, which is fine, you've got to give them boundaries. Absolutely have to give them boundaries.

Rachel Denning (01:40:33.517)
that you then must provide appropriate outlets for them. And if you tell them you will and you don't, or it's not regular enough, it's gonna come out. It's gonna come out misbehavior. So anyways, lots here, lots of good stuff. If you have more questions, reach out to us. Again, I am so genuinely excited for the 20 to day challenge we're starting. We are doing this literally to help get all these fundamentals in place and make it so easy.

to keep track of all these things. Because like we started with, it's everything. It's layers and layers and everything affects everything. And we're going to lay it all out, very specifically. Yep. And give you all the tools and you just fall through. We're going to make it easy for you. Then boom.

things start to work in this beautiful state, the state they're supposed to work in, the state they work in naturally on their own, I think they work out beautifully on their own. If you facilitate it, if you don't, they do not work out even remotely on their own. It's chaos and mayhem. So, you guys, thanks for listening. It's super long. Thanks for being here. Thanks for caring. Love you guys. Reach upward.