#221 Specific Strategies & Tools to Make Your Marriage Good, Better, Great & EXTRAORDINARY

Rachel Denning (00:10.702)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We are your host, Greg and Rachel Denning. Coming to you live. Actually, this is recorded. So if you listen to it right away, it's almost live. We are in or near... We're in Kayseri. Cappadocia. In the state of Cappadocia. Turkey. And it's amazing. And we flew in late last night, super late after a pretty special...

It's a memorable day of travel where we had to navigate, navigate, run at full speed. That's the callback. We had to run through the airport. We had to navigate at full speed. We had not done that for many, many, many years. Usually we're better at this, but there was just a window. We didn't have a connecting flight. We had to purchase two different flights and we had a 90 minute window and one of the flights was late.

We had to get all of our kids and all of our luggage from arrivals to departures.

And literally the only way it worked is because there were two gentlemen working for the airline who just went out of their way to help. Despite the fact that check -in for bags were closed, they still allowed us to get in. And I was like, please brother. And he's like, I got you, man. It was awesome. Just a phenomenal gentleman. And then we ran, ran, ran, and our six -year -old was like, this is fun. Oh yeah, the kids loved it. And we were just sweating. And Rachel was stressing. She hates moving fast. And we loved it.

So we had a wild adventure and we made it and then our guest had missed her flight and canceled. But anyway, so the teens and I ended up staying up. We stayed up till 3 a .m. to go pick up our guest. It was awesome. So we just had a great adventure and I'm running on just a couple hours of sleep. But here we are. These are the fun experiences. This is rare.

Rachel Denning (02:13.006)
But it does happen. Well, but this is a good principle, I think. It's rare for us now because we have learned from past experiences like that. By doing it. Because it used to be frequent. It used to be more frequent. It's now rare. Now it's more rare because you learn and you figure out how to do it. I mean, we, and I, we went, we walked through it when we booked the flights, I remember, and we're like, okay, it's going to be rough, but we can make it.

but it was close and usually because of experience, well we don't do that. We don't purposely book things that are gonna make us rush. Like if you think, oh we could make it, it's possible, that's your sign that. You're setting yourself up for some trouble. Shouldn't really do that one.

And I think this is - Planning trips, you need to have more space planned in there for the inevitable mishaps that happen. And so that's why it is more rare because we've learned from experience to plan for the unexpected. I had a really interesting conversation with a coaching client. I think this is worth sharing. He and his family have been out traveling. And again, it doesn't only apply to travel. It applies to, you know, every part of life. But he said the same thing. Most people go out and they have an experience like this that's -

that's not planned, it's not comfortable, it's very stressful. And the conclusion is, we're not doing that anymore. And so most people stop. And whether it's starting a business or starting a family, what we're talking about today, if we're married, if you get into it and it's like, oh, this is not going like I hoped or planned or expected, like all my dreams are, this is just a crap sandwich.

You modify your behavior, you learn, you change, and then occasionally if something like this happens, you're like, okay, that was crazy. Let's actually literally laugh at it. Hey, that was memorable, it was fun. Instead of, oh, I hate this, I'm done traveling. Well, and that is generally the mindset people have, whether it is parenting or marriage or whatever. Something like that happens, like what happened to us yesterday, traveling, and they conclude,

Rachel Denning (04:20.878)
this sucks I don't want to do this because I mean that's kind of how I felt I was like oh this is the sex it's stressful I don't want to rush and run and run through the airport with a luggage cart you know I don't like to be that person let's paint a picture a little bit here seven extra heavy bags we paid for extra luggage and then seven carry -ons and seven personal items and then food yeah I mean we are we look like

A caravan. Right. And I'm like, I don't like to be that person. And so the conclusion could be, I hate this. I don't want to do this anymore. I'm done traveling. That's the conclusion people often make. When reality, I know the reason we had to do that was because of my own...

Decisions I was the one who booked those flights. So if we have to rush well, that's on me Like there's nothing and you're the one that despises that the most where the rest of us are like, let's run yeah, I despise it because

Partly I know I'm, well, no, here's the reason. I know I'm causing my own suffering. I caused my own suffering by booking flights that close together. And so I'm frustrated because I'm like, ugh, it doesn't have to be this way. For me, that's what it is. It doesn't have to be this way because I could have planned an itinerary that would have given us plenty of time. Well, I'm just speaking in principles now. It's this idea that when you begin to look at things that way, you realize,

It doesn't always have to be pain and suffering because you are friction. You're you're the cause of the friction but you also have the power to reduce that friction. That's one thing I've learned from logistics planning logistics like you don't have to have all of that pain and suffering in travel or whatever you can plan an itinerary and This is why I like to travel and I like to be in charge of the itinerary I plan the itinerary that works for me and works for a family ultimately when you have small children I work in plenty of

Rachel Denning (06:20.304)
usually for recovery we get to walk at the speed of a family with small children you know and that we have more than enough time to do it and it's easy and it's comfortable it's not not this rush and yet ironically though our six -year -old is the fastest at her pace we're all running yes but you know just the whole caravan you know it's slow but this I'm trying to connect it to the principle because

We have that power. We're the ones making the decisions that make our lives easier or harder. And it's true, it's exactly true in your daily family life. This isn't just talking about travel. When you're running through the day, you're rushing through the day, you're hurrying here and there and you're stressed, it doesn't have to be that way. You can literally plan an itinerary throughout your personal day with your family.

that makes it smooth and easy and comfortable. And if there's a rush on something you don't like, guess what? That was you. You did something. You scheduled something. You put something on the calendar. You tried to do too many things in too little time. Like, just...

Stop doing that and stop causing your own pain and suffering. And that's true at work and at home especially. Absolutely. Where so many people are rushed and chaotic and hectic and if we're not careful you guys it's easy to blame the circumstances. Yeah. It's easy to blame the traffic. It's easy to blame the travel, marriage, it's easy to blame kids.

chaotic and it's crazy having kids is crazy I'm running this way running that way and all my schedules this and all home life semester and all work is so demanding and all my clients and my boss when really were were either participating in perpetuating or creating our own chaos and it's ultimately a lack of systems and strategy well I think just like a travel itinerary because not only do I plan trips for our own family but I also plan

Rachel Denning (08:20.11)
professional trips for groups that we lead. I literally go through mentally every single hour of every single day of the trip. And I imagine where we are and what we're gonna be doing and I map it on Google Maps to see how long it'll take us to get from here to there and all that. And I work all that into the itinerary so there's not a rush, there's not these unexpected things that make it so we can't get there, we don't show up and the place is closed. You have to think through all those things. And I think,

In family life, I do the same thing too. And too often where people fail is they try to think they can do too much and that everything's going to go perfectly right. Like we think, oh, I can take my kids to soccer and then go here and do this and do that and everything's gonna go perfectly smooth. So there's no traffic, there's no hiccups. Yeah, I can make that work. But that's not real life, people. There are going to be hiccups. There are going to be things that just go wrong. And so you have to be able to say no.

to more things and that's the same with a trip. Often one of my biggest challenges on planning a trip is deciding what to not see. What we're not gonna go do. What we're not gonna go visit. Like I have to make hard choices about no, we're not gonna do those things because if we do, we're not gonna enjoy the rest of the trip because we're gonna be so rushed, stressed, frazzled, worn out.

All of that has to go into the planning and it's the same thing with family life. You have to slow down, you have to do less things. In fact, I was reminded again... Do fewer but better things. Yeah, do fewer things better. And that makes life better. The quality of your life, just like the quality of a trip, is going to be determined by saying no and being deliberate in planning. I know you're going to keep going unless you want to say something about planning. I was reminded again on this trip, when I'm talking about this trip, I mean...

when we started back in December, we went to Norway and we went through Scandinavia and, you know, then 15 countries in Europe. But we went, like...

Rachel Denning (10:21.518)
The example is Finland. Finland is the example for me because I thought, oh, awesome, Finland, let's go to this city and this city and this city. And we went to three cities in Finland and we hated Finland because we were constantly moving. And I realized, I'm like more, and I was like, duh, I know this. More is not better. Just because there are cool things to see doesn't mean you have to go see them all, right? Sometimes the best way to have a great experience is to see fewer things and to go to fewer places. And it's...

exactly the same with motherhood. Like often the best way to have a better experience with your family is to do less things, but to do them well and to thoroughly enjoy them. Instead of rushing, rushing, rushing from place to place and thing to thing and activity to activity, you actually make your life, you cause your suffering. You make it miserable. And that kind of deliberate approach allows space and bandwidth for

the inevitable setbacks and upsets and things not working out. And for spontaneity. But you're allowing space in there for, oh man, so and so is crying and we needed to talk through that. And wow, so like if you've got a super tight schedule, everything has to go. You don't have time to address emotional things. And your husband or your wife or one of your kids needs some time and space and you need to talk through something.

Now you're resentful, now you're upset, now threw up your schedule, now it ruined all this stuff, and it makes something way worse instead of, oh, we need to have time and space for those kind of things. And for spontaneity, for fun stuff, to be able to do whatever else, it makes such a huge difference. I can imagine some of you thinking, though, hearing how Rachel plans a trip, they're like, well, I don't plan, I don't have time to plan like that. My life is so busy, so chaotic, so crazy, I don't even have time to plan. And to that is we've learned through hard experience.

that you can either choose to spend the time planning well, being strategic, or be forced to spend the time of putting out fires, of chaos, mayhem, irritability, nasty consequences. Everything in life is like that. You can choose, and it's hard, to put in the effort upfront.

Rachel Denning (12:44.078)
or you can be forced to do the cleanup after. Yeah, exactly. That's the way to say it. And the cleanup is always worse, more expensive, more painful, more disastrous. And that fits perfectly with our conversation on marriage today. You can put in the work, you can plan, you can be deliberate, you can make changes, or you can keep hoping your marriage stays together.

and then usually have to do massive cleanup or it's a disaster. Unfortunately, that is the way too many people operate is that they don't want to or don't know how to do the planning, the strategy upfront, the intentionality. And so by default, they end up just having to deal with the...

the outcomes of that, of not doing those things, leads to the heartache, the pain, the fighting, in the case of children, drugs, abuse, suicide attempts. These are all the things that we hear about when people contact us. This is what happens. They're not intentional about their life. Things go completely off rail, and then they reach out saying, help, what do I do?

We're gonna get divorced, help, my child's threatening suicide, help, my husband's threatening me. We get all these phone calls or messages or emails and that is the outcome of not being intentional in the beginning. So you can put in the little bit of effort, which seems like a lot of effort, I get it.

upfront so you have great outcomes where you don't put that effort in because you're like, I don't really think it makes that big of a difference. It's, you know, I don't want to change or do these different things. I'm just going to keep going with the flow of what we've got. It's not great, but it's not bad. And over time it actually turns into something really bad and ugly. And then they have to do the cleanup and the cleanup sometimes doesn't work because it's too late. It's too late. Yeah. Um,

Rachel Denning (14:48.782)
And it's a lot harder to do the cleanup than it is to do the upfront strategy and planning. Yep. Oh, this is so important. And I think let's just dive in because that's what made the difference with our marriage.

because my parents divorced when I was young, stepdads came and went. I, as a teenager, made a massive list of the qualities I wanted in my future wife. I also made a list of the qualities I wanted in my husband. Nice! So we, there it is, we put in the work up front. So when we started dating, we started talking. We were having serious, in fact the very first time I called Rachel. I'd never even seen you before. I got her phone number. I'm her friend. I called her and we spent an hour, hour and a half on the phone.

I was tactfully going through my list of questions. You were interviewing me. I was interviewing her. Because we knew what we wanted and what we didn't want. Now, we were still pretty clueless, but we had a foundation. We had a foundation. That was what mattered. And so we went into it with planning and strategy. And we've been strategic the whole time, constantly making adjustments for the outcomes we want and modifying our behavior to get the outcomes.

But like Rachel alluded to just last week. I had just heart -wrenching conversations of like scary stuff where couples are literally threatening each other with their lives means so sad and oh my goodness, I I'm respecting privacy, but another conversation with just an absolutely heartbroken friend and client

whose marriage has just ended, it's done. Oh, it's so, so sad. So we're sharing today, actually, you know, it's the secrets of an extraordinary marriage, but we're gonna do the fundamental basics. Even just the strategies for a good marriage, or a better marriage, or a great marriage, all the way to extraordinary, but like, there's levels here, and wherever you are,

Rachel Denning (16:59.021)
start implementing some of these things to move up that scale. You know what I mean? So like... And don't... I'm gonna throw this in here right now. I'm gonna throw it out right now.

Be careful in this episode and in all things. Be careful not to just quickly dismiss things. We're so dismissive as people. We kind of get set in our ways and somebody says something like, no duh. And we judge it, we prejudge it, like the prejudice, we dismiss, we toss it aside, we totally disregard it. Because no one else dumps. And yet - Or that doesn't fit into my world. Yeah, it doesn't fit.

Or that's just your religion talking or that's just your prejudices. We throw that stuff out there and ironically we continue to suffer pretty pathetic results while we're dismissing people who have phenomenal results. And we make sure they have phenomenal results. You know dismiss the people. It's not really working. Don't listen to it. But...

Be careful not to just be so dismissive. We're gonna say some things and I know, we're gonna give you a big list. I know on some of this list, some of you are gonna be like, pfft, ah, I'm done, let's stop. But, slow down, consider it. Like Rachel and I have a genuinely phenomenal marriage that we've worked on and we get to share this and help couples all the time, every week, all over the world.

like don't don't just toss it out chew on it consider it and if your marriage is not absolutely world -class and even if it's fantastic just experiment with some of these things try it consider it chew on a little bit before you just disregard it well it's it's interesting because I've thought about this a lot of a lot of times not just with parenting not just with marriage but with parenting also because

Rachel Denning (18:52.973)
We are so intentional with our lives. Like we both went through this phase early on in our marriage where we threw out everything that wasn't working and only intentionally kept the things that actually worked. Like we've gone through this weeding process with every part of our life where we've looked at everything, sleeping, eating.

moving like anything anything you can think of in your life brushing your teeth we've researched it analyzed and be like what's the best way to do this we're really obsessed with doing that right and we've we've done it so many times that the things that we do in our life we don't just do just because oh well that's cool or default or just we picked it up somewhere we're super intentional about all of it so when we say oh we do this it's not just

like hey this is our opinion, this is our, this is our, the way we do things, which there's some of that, you know, we're not saying that we're the 100 % experts on everything, that's not what we're trying to say, but we are trying to say that we're very cautious about the things that we do, and specifically, especially about the things that we share with other people. So we're not just throwing out opinions just because whatever.

And if we do, we say that, but the point is we're super intentional. And we only like to do and keep the things that actually work in our own lives, which is one of the reasons why we have a life that is so, well, storybook, as my mom even calls it, we have this storybook life where here we are traveling through Turkey with our family, you know, we're doing all these amazing, wonderful, incredible storybook things. We have this.

unreal marriage relationship that literally is incredible. Our children are amazing. Of course, none of us are perfect. We're not talking about perfection here. But the relationships we have are just top -notch. I mean, our kids, they're not perfect kids and they still, you know, have their little disagreements and things, but...

Rachel Denning (21:07.405)
They are great, great kids and they get along, they fully respect us, they're extremely grateful for everything. I mean, even last night, we're rushing at the airport and everything and what our teens say sooner or later, thanks mom and dad. Like they're grateful. It's filled with gratitude. For everything, you know, they're just so full of gratitude. And so.

The reason why is not because we're special or unique or better than other people, but it's because we have been so intentional about everything we do in our life. And if it doesn't work, we throw it out. And if it does work, we keep it and we tell people about it. And it's not just happenstance. It's because of research study and trial and error. And ultimately, like, I guess this started when I was 16. I was out on my own, totally broke. I just became.

I didn't know it then and I wouldn't have called it this then, but now looking back, I became obsessed with optimization. So everything you were just describing is like, we want everything to work phenomenally well together in harmony. Because everything affects everything. And so we want to harmonize, we want to optimize. So we became obsessed with optimization and we're willing to look through everything and reconsider all of our old...

our own sacred cows and dogmas and social conditioning and every bit of it to say what stays what goes. And it's all, this is so critically important, please listen up here. It is all to get the highest.

ideals, the noblest aim, the greatest outcomes we want. So we're crystal clear about the outcome we want and then we modify our behaviors until we get the outcome we want. And we'll keep reconsidering, we'll keep throwing things out or bringing things in accordingly. Right, just like with my travel planning. If I don't like the outcome, if I don't like running through the airport...

Rachel Denning (23:04.717)
Well, I then make itineraries that don't require me to run through the airport, right? That's the simple example there. I don't have to just accept that and be like, oh, well, that's just a part of travel. If you're going to travel, you have to run through the airport. Yeah, OK, once in a while it happens. But most of the time, you can be strategic enough that that doesn't have to be your normal experience. Exactly. OK, so we are going to make.

concerted effort here are you in to try our hardest to be brief with each of these things because I feel like with everything I'm about to list we could do an entire podcast right there's so much research and depth and reason behind it but how about we be as brief as possible and if they're interested in more depth on one topic or the other into it you can request that and we can do that yeah

And so many of these little things were to mention I'm gonna we're gonna I think we'll go through the list of what we don't do first and then what we do do and there'll be some crossover But please understand that everything we say we don't do it wasn't some flippant thing It wasn't some little idea like oh, we don't do that. We've thought through it deeply research that studied it worked with thousands of people and and over all the books we've read We both still average about a book a week. I know I'm on

course for that have been for over two decades. We're all over the planet. We're paying attention. We're observing. So this is a massive swath of humanity we're researching here. And we're reading the research of the researchers. Like we're covering massive amounts. So if we say, hey, we don't do this, it's not just because we're just like, no, we don't do that. Like we've thought through this. There's tons here. Entire podcast worth easily on everything we tell you we don't do.

well, I just think it's funny, because even last night when we were flying yesterday, I was watching episodes of The Crown. And it's so fascinating because this is just the way we think now. But while I'm watching, I'm literally psychoanalyzing the relationship. I'm looking at Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip, and I'm like, well, this is the reason they're having these problems here is because this and this, you know? And one of the things was they don't have time. They don't have time in their schedules because she's so busy being the Queen of England that they

Rachel Denning (25:30.447)
They don't have time to actually sit down and resolve their issues. And so of course that causes more problems. So I'm sitting there while I'm watching the show just like analyzing. But that's because there are reasons. We like to think that it's just the way things are.

In fact, I thought about it when, because one of the episodes I watched was about Prince Charles, who had to go away, you know, boarding school is a thing that England does a lot, which is actually devastating. And we personally know people who have dealt with drug problems and horrible issues because of being sent away to boarding school.

but he was sent away to boarding school it was obviously very challenging for him but then it tells the story of Prince Philip whose father hated him literally and he hated his father and one of the guys said to him

It was kind of like a mentor to him. He said, you know, one day you'll be a father and you'll be hated too. And you'll just realize that that's just how it is. And I thought, no, this is so sad. I mean, yeah, I get it. This has been the history of the world and the history of humanity and the history of relationships. But I think, I just think to myself, it doesn't have to be that way. That's it's such a sick form of victimism. And it's so common. You've probably heard that. I've heard, I heard people tell me all the time. That's just the way it is.

If you were to complain to your neighbor or your buddies about marriage is tough, that's all, it's just like that. Couples fight like crazy, you hate each other and then make it up. Oh yeah, kids or teens. This is the most common thing, you hear about your teens. Oh teens, just teenage years, if you can just survive that, it's terrible. And they just keep spreading this horrible, pathetic, crap attitude and fixed mindset about that's the way things are. You'll be hated too. That is so...

Rachel Denning (27:15.597)
One day you'll be hated by your son too. And I do understand, like I like to think deeply about these things and so I get it that, you know, we as humans, we're an evolving species. So we're growing in our understanding and development of human relationships and how things work. No, I disagree. Only if you are.

very few. I would say less than 2 % of people are growing in their understanding. With all the information and knowledge and everything that's available, babe, people are getting dumber. I guess, no, I'm not getting dumber. Dumbness is just ignorance. Let's say ignorance first, because some people just don't know. So it's not their fault if they don't know. But to have it readily available right in front of you.

And like Kavi said, to know and not to do is really not to know. So it's there. But to have it, the understanding, the improvements, how it all works is so readily available and people still operate in absolute ignorance. No, I agree with you. What I am trying to say though is that overall, humanity as a whole is growing and evolving in their understanding. So I think nowadays, while it's not common for everyone, there's a...

section of people, even the two percent, that understand it and are helping to spread it, you know, this information, this knowledge.

that I think hasn't always been able to be fully articulated or the information and knowledge spread because we didn't have, before the printing press, you didn't have books. So you only knew what you could learn from other people that you immediately were in contact with. In geographical dependence. In geographic location. So that as a whole is changing because of the widespread.

Rachel Denning (29:09.837)
sharing of information and knowledge and you know all of that so overall that's what I'm saying is that humanity is growing they are understanding they are able to better articulate what's happening and because one of the things I observed in the you know the relationships with obviously it's being acted out but I think it's true to life.

It's like they don't know the words to say. They don't have the words to say. It's like they're trying to figure out what's happening in their head and they don't know how to share that with their partner. That's still the case. It is still the case, but I think more and more people are learning how to be able to do that. I disagree. You're shaking your head. I'm such an optimist too, you guys. But I'm saying no, like you take a general swath of humanity, they still don't know, they don't understand themselves.

but that's the age -old thing. They don't understand themselves, they don't understand each other, they don't understand humanity, psychology, sociology, they don't understand their spouses, and they don't know how to articulate what their experience is feeling and what their spouse's experience is feeling. That's why there's still so much friction and frustration. Most people, 98%, I'm gonna go with that, still don't know. And that's why we're doing this. You're right, you're right. But I think at least the difference now is that...

the information is more widely available. So there's more opportunity for that to change because it's more widespread. If we lived in the middle ages, we would be having this conversation and who would hear it? A bunch of people that came to listen to us. That's it. Now we can reach hundreds or thousands of people.

on this platform. So that's changing. That's awesome. Love it. Okay. That was our tangent. Woo! Man, all of that for an introduction. So let's just go quickly. I just made a list. I sat down with them. Like, what are just fundamental stuff, those basics? And there's so much here. Rachel and I were talking before we turned on the podcast. There's so much that now we've been doing for so long that it's just become unconscious. It literally is passed out of our consciousness.

Rachel Denning (31:04.397)
It's things we learned early in our marriage, like we won't do that or we will do this, and now we've done it for so long, it's just automatic. We don't need to think about it, but for some people it might be revelatory. They'd be like, you do that or you don't do that? So we're trying to remember as much of these as we can. So number one, we don't drink alcohol. Just done. We don't do that. And we've thought through that all around, studied it out. There's so much great research coming out now. But alcohol affects your brain, affects your gut.

It weakens your control. It causes dependencies and it causes problems. Who...

We could get way into this well that I said I did drink alcohol as a teenager And then I made a conscious choice to not do that and to change my life Which is what ultimately led me to meeting you and then was a shared foundation for our relationship And I moved out Well, I just want to say that so you know there was a religious base for our decision to not do that originally But now I would say it's not connected to religion It's just the science is clear on why you should not be drinking

alcohol. And the social outcomes. Yeah. It's pretty obvious. And my story was different. At 16 I moved out, lived in the ghetto, hood, trash, everybody drank and did drugs. Somehow as a 16 year old I was able to look objectively and be like I don't want anything to do with this. Often because I was the designated driver as a 16 year old for all the absolute drunks.

I mean, they would just go get slammed. And I drove because I was, ultimately I was like, oh, you're underage, you can't drink, be the designated driver. And so I got to see sober and conscious the train wreck of consequences of drugs, alcohol, immorality, crime, domestic violence. I was living, literally living in it.

Rachel Denning (33:05.261)
And I was like, I will never have anything to do. So I've never had a drink of alcohol, nothing, never had it. So obviously no drugs. We don't do drugs. We don't do even prescription drugs. I know that's becoming a huge problem. Like in the worst case scenario, we'll take some. I've had major surgeries and.

If they give me some heavy stuff, I'm really careful about that. I don't, I will not partake for any of us. I won't take any prescriptions that are addictive and I'll get off them as soon as possible. I'd rather endure some pain than, than stay numbed.

I just don't like this. We don't touch that stuff. No drugs. A lot of people were like, well, marijuana and all its other names are out there. CBD. CBD, whatever. They're like, oh, it's medical and it's this, that, and the other. Dr. Daniel Amon is really adamant and vocal about this now. He does brain research. He's promoted in the last, what, year or two. There's so much, because so many people are using it now, it's legalized in so many states. He's just pumping out.

all the consequences of marijuana and they are not good. It is killing your brain. Very dangerous. Because it's reducing blood flow to the brain and the last thing you ever want to do is reduce blood flow to your brain. Not a good strategy. So no jokes. No pornography ever. I never looked at it. I was exposed to it again as a kid in the teens. In fact, first time I was exposed to it I think I was eight. I went over to a friend's house in the neighborhood. I was eight years old.

And he had built a little fort in his backyard and literally covered every wall and the ceiling with porn that his dad had given him. So he had taken the magazines and covered the whole thing and invited us over there so we'd hang out in the fort. As an eight -year -old kid and I'm nervous like this like Okay, and don't misunderstand me. I'm I'm a man. I'm all man.

Rachel Denning (35:07.757)
and have a very strong sex drive and attracted to the beauty of a woman's body. But I just realized, I'm like, this is a mess. And so I did it. I just don't look at it. And I never have, and we don't. We don't allow it. And I don't do it. I never have, never will. It's just not. And I protect myself. It's not that I'm not immune to it.

I know, and in fact, I've studied this extensively and worked with a lot of guys and youth who've had a problem with it. I know what it does. So I've protected myself at all costs against it. In fact, early on, even before I met you, I made a commitment that like, look, if I ever had a problem, and I guess this is my approach and maybe this is why this is so powerful and why these things work. I've always had this hardcore approach. If I was having a problem looking at porn,

whatever the vehicle was would be completely gone from my life. And I made that commitment. I'm like, hey look. I remember actually we talked about that one, early married. We said if there's ever a problem with something with technology, porn or whatever. It's gone. Like, computer's gone. We're not gonna have a computer. And I made that commitment. I'm like, if I had that problem, I literally would just live my entire life without a computer. And I would. And then smartphones came out. And I'm like, if I had a problem looking at porn on my mobile, I literally would go back to a little flip phone and never go back.

For reals, I would. Dead serious. I'm like, I'm done. I don't care if there's a serious problem and I've made the same commitment with our marriage and with our kids. If I had a kid that's struggling, my phrase was, we'll go live on Mount Kilimanjaro. I will do whatever is necessary to not get stuck in the problem.

And I think that that's a key principle, back to tying it into what I mentioned before, of how intentional we are. We take things seriously. We take precautionary measures seriously. We don't just allow life to happen and then try to clean it up afterwards. But I think that's just a terrible approach in general to life. We think about it beforehand and then say, OK, we're going to do all of these.

Rachel Denning (37:10.637)
steps to prevent it from happening. And it's an approach that works great. Makes a huge difference. Here's another one. Absolutely no foul language. None. And that means we don't tell off jokes. We don't even make any kind of innuendos or jokes or like no cursing, no disgusting talk. Ever. None.

Like we just don't do it. And again, I know some of you are like, oh, it's kind of prudish, it's kind of silly, that doesn't make a big deal. I would disagree. Like what's... It's intentional. What's inside, what comes out of your mouth and then what goes into your eyes and ears, it makes a difference. It makes a gigantic difference. It can't not. And then you think, oh, it doesn't matter, it doesn't make a difference. It absolutely does. And our approach to this is we want to be classy. Yeah.

and it's just class and we want to be refined. But I think that this is kind of interesting too because along with that it doesn't mean that we're prude because we have friends that swear and we can hang out with them and it's not a problem. We can watch movies that swear and you know it's not it's not that we are what's a better what's another word to use besides prude it's not that we're naive bothered by it per se or exactly naive. It's not like totally closed.

It's just that we choose to be deliberate with our language. And so, again, it's not that we've never sworn, we have, but it's very deliberate and intentional and specific and not common. It's not common language. Right. And that...

That thing, think about it across the board. In fact, we don't even participate in frivolous conversations. If it's just fluff and frivolity, it's just superficial garbage, we don't even participate. So it's way beyond not using the F word. It's like, why are we sitting here talking about the weather? Like, duh. Let's talk about something that matters. And to me, it's about being more articulate with your vocabulary. Like, if that's the only word you can come up with, you need to do some more reading.

Rachel Denning (39:30.191)
have some more vocabulary in your repertoire of words to use because yeah, I get it. Sometimes maybe that's the word to use, but not very often in my mind. There's a lot more words. There's a lot more words you can use. And I realized like it's become quite popular for speakers and presenters and influencers to use really foul language. It's a shock factor. Well, it's shock factor. I'm like, why don't you actually use results as your shock factor?

And when you start looking behind the scenes of some of the most well -known presenters and speakers and successful people, you realize their personal lives are a mess. And so they're, again, it's like smoke screens to me. If you're up there, wow, throwing all this crap, it's like, yeah, what are you hiding? What are you exposing? So that's interesting. Absolutely no garbage media, none. We don't do trash. We don't do frivolity, fluff.

and filth. We just don't do it. Now I will strategically watch... We strategically watch plenty of things. It's not that we're not watching media. We are. It's very strategic. And we have a reason why. So I'll even purposely watch with my older children a movie that may be extremely violent, for example, like a war movie.

or a different movie, but it has to be real to life, teaching a historical or true principle or concept, and I'm deliberately exposing them to the realities of life in a safe.

environment and saying look these things are real they do happen and we talk through it and I'm doing it as a way of education and preparation for the caliber of men and women we want to be. So again if it's just filth and garbage we sat down with our teens and watched a movie it was this was several weeks ago and it was a Friday night and like yeah famous actors and my son watched the

Rachel Denning (41:41.773)
the trailer and he's like, this looks so funny. Come on, come on, come on. He asked for several weeks. I'm like, let's try it. It was on geez, five minutes and we're like, this. It was longer than five minutes because we kept saying, oh, let's give it a chance. Maybe it'll get better. Maybe it'll get better. And finally, and it wasn't even, it wasn't even the language or that. It was just.

Pointless garbage. It just was stupid. And so we were like, okay, you know, if it has some better message or purpose, we don't have a problem with it. But when it's just stupid, maybe that's one of the things where we're at where we've just become unconscious, you know, unconsciously, we just can't put up with stupidities. We're just like, seriously? No tolerance. No tolerance for stupid. Okay. No junk food.

And again, remember this list is extraordinary things for your marriage. Your input affects your marriage. Oh my goodness. Oh, massively is affecting your marriage. What you watch and consume, even on your own, what you consume personally is affecting your marriage. What you consume as a couple is affecting your marriage. And you're probably going to get into this later, but I actually want to tie it in now because this was key to the beginning and the foundation of our marriage because along with what we don't do...

is what we do on the other side of it and one of those things is the reading. Greg and I were attracted to each other because we both read books and we talked about them. And we would spend hours, we would be up all night long talking about books while we were dating, talking about ideas.

That's a key there. If you don't have some way to really connect with your spouse and to have deep and meaningful conversations, well, for one thing, you're never going to get to extraordinary. You have to have that as a foundation to get to the extraordinary level. But to even make your bet, your marriage better or good or even great, you've got to have that in common. And I don't care if you get that from shows you watch.

Rachel Denning (43:43.597)
or books you listen to or podcasts or whatever. You find something and like talk about it together. And so that's one way where you can use media intentionally. Because instead of watching stupidities that both of you feel stupider after you watch, watch something that makes you think and then actually talk about it. Because that's what we love to do. Even if you disagree, let it stir you up. Be like, oh, OK, let's discuss this. Let's get into it. Where most people, and perhaps most of you, can't even

get past transactional conversations like you run this you did that and I can't believe you did that why are we doing this and oh did you hear so and so blah blah blah it's like oh my gosh you you can't even discuss ideas talk about something with substance yeah exactly so super super important on that one okay no junk food again that's affecting you and it's affecting your marriage

We just don't need garbage. And we started our marriage that way. I was already way into health. And then we've told this story, her dad was getting sick, so we just said, we're not doing this. I had cancer. And you guys, it affects the way you think. It affects the way you feel. And just that thing, if you could improve the way you feel and the way you think, would that improve your marriage? Yes. Absolutely. That's a no -brainer. Get rid of the junk. That's something that people are not realizing when it comes to their parenting.

and it comes to their marriage relationship, they don't understand how big of an impact their sleep and their food are having on those relationships. If you can improve food and improve sleep, you're going to improve your own biological functioning and you're going to have better relationships. I can't even tell you how much easier it is to be happy and pleasant with my kids and my spouse when I have slept well and I've got good food.

And I notice the difference even more than I did before. I notice how off I am when I don't get sleep and I don't eat the right food or eat junk food. It affects me. Everything. I mean, so you can improve your mood, your libido, your just pleasantness to be around, clear thinking, your optimism. Right. Can you just wake up like, how does it feel good? And so then let's say you wake up, you feel good, but your spouse is off for summer, he didn't sleep well and your spouse says something, but you don't have to react. You don't have to think. You feel better.

Rachel Denning (46:00.943)
It's okay, babe. We're good. Look, we're good. But if we're both eating garbage, not taking care of ourselves, then I do something, she reacts, I react. Oh, it's a crowd. I was already feeling like garbage. And now we've created this disaster, like we started out with, like it's on us. It's our responsibility. We are the creators of this problem. Where, just cut it out. I love this.

Get better sleep and eat better. Watch how your marriage improves. It's that simple. And I know you're skeptical thinking, how could eating better improve my marriage? Try it. Just try it. Okay, this one's crazy important right here. No insults. We just don't insult each other. And we started our marriage that way and as soon as our kids could even comprehend anything, we're saying, hey, we don't do that. We don't insult each other. We don't insult other people. We just don't do it. We don't.

We don't mean tease. And I used to do this. I learned the hard way. I was sarcastic. Especially when I was dating. Before I met Rachel, I was very sarcastic. I teased a lot. I thought teasing was a way to make friends and flirt. And I did it. But then as I was working with more and more people, I kept realizing behind the scenes, people would confide in me and tell me how much.

pain, insults had inflicted, how many wounds and scars they had from things people had said and I was like, I'm done. We do not do that. And so we don't insult each other.

Gosh, you guys, if you could just remove that, even when you're angry, even when you disagree, even when you're so frustrated, just forbid yourself to insult your spouse. And it'll change things. And it costs the kids too. Like if I insult my kids...

Rachel Denning (48:00.461)
it's gonna affect my marriage. If you insult our kids, it's gonna affect our marriage. So you don't do it. And then insulting others and just being the crass, foul, ignorant, like rude person, that's not sexy. It is so unattractive. And you're like, if you're insulting, calling people names, acting like a complete imbecile, even on the road, somebody cuts you off and you're screaming and yelling and flipping them off and calling them names like.

There's nothing attractive about that. And so it's affecting your marriage. No insulting. All right, man, we are just scratching the list. We gotta move fast. Okay, no masks. We agreed early on to take off the masks. And really that became a mask. I put no mask, no facades.

That was important to me because I saw so much of it. I saw people being fake. I saw people pretending. And I got to see both sides. I saw what they acted like when the door was closed and then how they pretended to act when somebody rang the doorbell. And it just made me so sick. I think we probably talked about it before we got married. I'm like, we don't play that game. There's no pretense here. No facades, no masks.

Like stop hiding behind whatever it is and just take it off and this is who I am. Be yourself. Now that being said though, we are both intentional about being our very best selves. So taking off the mask and being your authentic self doesn't mean you get to be this rude jerk that well goes back to insulting, right? That's not what we're talking about.

We're both on this quest to be our best selves. And I know that people can find this challenging. How do you be your best self and be your real self? Because they feel like their real self is their worst self. And that's another part of the challenge here, is that you need to find a way. Well, and this is where we should talk about the rats in the cellar. You need to find a way that your best self is your real self.

Rachel Denning (50:11.469)
so that you can be your real authentic self, but it's actually a pleasant person that you want to be around. Now this doesn't mean that I don't ugly cry to Greg when I need to or whatever, you know what I mean? Like there are those moments when I feel pain, I feel suffering, whatever. Like you could call it ugly, not that I'm being ugly and rude to you per se, but like I allow that part out.

But that should be if you process your emotions, if you work through your trauma, your issues, that becomes the exception rather than the rule. And so it's not like your spouse has to accept you without the mask and it's bleh, ugly and scary and frightening. And it's unending tolerance. Yeah. Unending tolerance of just all the crap you want to throw out there. That's not what it means. It means you're working on becoming your very best self, but you're being your real self.

And so that's what you're showing is your real best self And so I think those go together like there's well, I just added to listen There's no settling because if you just settle for less than your best if you just acquiesce So if I say you know what that's it. I'm not gonna have any more masks. This is who I am Rachel

Just deal with it. Or love me as I am. We talked about this before we got married. I'm like, I will never ever ask you to love me as I am. That was one of the things you told me when we, maybe we were engaged or before we got engaged, you said, I will never ask you to love me the way I am because I'm never going to stay the same. I'm going to keep growing and getting better. Yep. Because none of us, none of us has any business being the same person this year that we were last year. That is an absolute fail. So,

No settling, no stagnating, no staying flat. You have to keep rising. And that's the only way that it works. Well, and if you don't, if you're not committed to getting better, if you're just like, well, this is the way I am. I'm going to stay this way. I can't do anything about it. Then of course you're going to keep a mask on. Of course you're going to put up the socks because you're trying to hide the crap. Well, and that's what we mean by the rats on seller because years ago we read this quote by C .S. Lewis. And essentially it's this idea that, you know,

Rachel Denning (52:29.901)
back when they had cellars, if you run down in the cellar and you're banging the pots and pans and you're making all this noise and then you turn on the lights, well, the rats are gone. They've run and hid because they knew you were coming. But if you go down there quietly and you flip on the lights really fast, there are the rats. And so it's this idea that we all have these rats in the cellar and the mask is trying to hide those rats. We don't want people to see them. We don't want them to be revealed. But if you...

just get rid of the rats, well then you don't have a problem.

You don't have to hide the rats because they're not there. Exactly. Exterminate them. Yep. And then you're fine. It doesn't matter. Yes. And so then you can be your real self and your real self is ratless. But you have to be an exterminator. If you choose to live with the rats, then you're always going to have to have a mask or a facade. So I've never read this quote in this full length. I'm going to read it to you right now because I reread this recently. I'm including it in my book and I was like, oh man, this is so good.

the reason we did this. So we begin to notice besides our particular sinful act, our own sinfulness, begin to be alarmed not only by what we do, but about what we are. So we start looking at who we are.

And that's when we notice the rats in the cellar metaphor, right, or analogy. And that's why we have to put on the mask or the facade, because when we expose ourselves for what we are, it's pretty scary. And if we don't do something about it, we have to keep hiding. He continues, this may sound rather difficult. So I will try to make it clear from my own case. When I come to my evening prayers and I try to reckon up the sins of the day, nine times out of 10, the most obvious one is some sin against charity.

Rachel Denning (54:12.781)
I have sulked or I've snapped or I've sneered or I've snubbed or I've stormed, right? He's noticing every night, he's kind of doing a self -assessment. He's noticing like, I'm kind of being selfish. I'm going to be rude and like, what am I? Right? He's noticing his own weaknesses and flaws. Now that's a critical junction right there, you guys, because we could either put up a mask or a facade or pretend or say, that's who I am. Or we could say, I, I'm not. Or blame the other person. Yeah. Oh, well it's them. It was the circumstances. They did this. The other person. Or you just own it.

He said, the excuse that immediately springs into my mind is that the provocation was so sudden and unexpected. Yes. I love this. He says, I was caught off my guard. I had not time to collect myself. Now that may be an extenuating circumstance as regards those particular acts.

they would obviously be worse if they had been deliberate or premeditated. And here's the point though, and this is so powerful. On the other hand, surely what a man does when he is taken off his guard is the best evidence for what sort of man he is. Oh man, okay we're just getting going.

Surely what pops out before the man has time to put on a disguise is the truth. That's the mass, that's the façade, that's the rats in the cellar. If there are rats in the cellar, you're most likely to see them if you go in very suddenly. But the suddenness does not create the rats. And that's the point here, that's what's so important. It only prevents them from hiding.

In the same way, the suddenness of the provocation does not make me an ill -tempered man, it only shows me what an ill -tempered man I am. Wow! The rats are always there in the cellar. But if you go in shouting and noisily,

Rachel Denning (56:19.949)
They will have taken cover before you switch on the light. So. Well, and this is what's so fascinating is because I remember vividly reading and studying that when we were newlyweds and that had a huge impact on our entire approach to our marriage. We just...

sincerely worked on and focused on getting rid of our individual rats so we can be our real selves and it's not like they never came out again this isn't perfection it's not like we've never had any rats come out but as they've come out we focus on exterminating them so that then our real self is this person that is rat free

Rat -free exactly. Okay, let's keep going. So this actually fits with the rats. No secrets We don't keep secrets from each other. We just don't do that, right? And that means it's actually really hard for me even surprise Rachel with things. Yes, that works. We have total transparency and our kids were teasing us because we actually have a secret right now we're taking them to a secret place in three weeks and They don't know what it is. And they're like you keep secrets. We don't know where we're going But this plays out in like a simple way I think

of because I know I've worked with people where this is not the case in their marriage but...

I know your cell phone password, you know my password, I know the password is for all of your computers. Emails, we have total transparency. I know, I have the login to your email, like you know sometimes that annoys you because I get in there and I like delete things and unsubscribe. She starts responding to people. Where'd that go? I'm getting better at not doing that. But you know, at any time you can log into my email and read my stuff, I can log into your email and read stuff, I can get on your phone and read any and all of your text messages. So it's this open transparency of like we have nothing to hide.

Rachel Denning (58:05.679)
from each other. And no way to hide. And no way to hide it on purpose. And we're committed to not hiding anything. There shouldn't be anything I hide from you. Right, exactly. Except for when you buy me Christmas gifts. Which is incredibly hard. I have to ask my mother to use her credit card and be like, I'll pay back after Christmas, Mom. Just please surprise Rachel. It's hilarious. No secrets. Okay, we have no addictions, you guys.

extremely extremely deliberate about this no addictions addictions just rob you of freedom freedom to be yourself freedom to lean into your marriage freedom to have an extraordinary marriage addictions rob you so don't I did joke that you have an addiction to air popped popcorn okay and I grass -fed butter I you love dark chocolate I love dark chocolate but think about well same thing vices

Like if you have addictions or vices, there's something that has a grip on you, on your mind, on your soul. If it's interrupting somehow, if it's keeping you from being your best self, if it's keeping you from extorting your marriage, anything that's holding you back or keeping you captive, restricting you, it's gotta go. Well because what happens is that it impacts your interactions. Like you don't respond.

You respond in ways that try to protect that thing instead of responding in open, vulnerable ways. Exactly. It makes you less vulnerable. So it's either a pain point or open wound or I'm fettered. I'm fettered or I think it's those chains you have around your ankles that they don't allow you to run. So you're shuffling. The fastest you can go is shuffle. And if you're trying to have an extraordinary marriage and you can only shuffle, it's holding you back. We have no unresolved issues. We have, and this took a good chunk of work. Most of my personal stuff I did before I met Rachel, which is,

actually amazing looking back now. All my past issues stuff, all the stuff I'd from my family and bad experiences and all the wounds and sores and whatever, and bad things, I processed it all and let it go. And when something comes up, we process it, let it go. And we went through all the deep stuff, everything we're working through, it's gone. So none of us again, are keeping these old, we don't have rat skeletons either. And we went in, all the ones we exterminated, we get rid of the skeletons.

Rachel Denning (01:00:24.333)
And the way that we've been able to do that is because we actually make...

resolving them a priority and this is one of the things I was thinking about when I was watching the crown was that they have these conversations and because they don't have time to actually address the issue and get into the deep understanding of like well why do you feel so strongly about this? Why do you explain? So I can explain you know they tell the story so you get it as the viewer but as the couple they don't get it because they don't see the story and they don't talk about the story so they don't understand their side and instead they have to make these ultimatums. I don't have time to

and talk to you, but this is the way it's going to be and that's it. And you move on. And that doesn't work in a relationship. And so we actually prioritize working through any of the things that come up. And in fact, you know, we've told...

We've said this before in our other podcasts and we told our kids that that's one of the reasons we've designed the life we have the way it is, is that it allows us to prioritize our relationships over anything else. Sometimes as a result, our business suffers, but for us, that's okay. Because if something comes up between us, we put everything else on hold and we resolve that before we move on. And we fully realize you guys that resolving an issue, well, from experience and then from working with

many couples. It takes like an issue can take literal full days and then sometimes weeks or months like you're really working through things it takes up so much time and if you're so busy or so preoccupied that you can't resolve an issue you guys a bleeding wound won't go away. You can move you can go somewhere else you can raise the kids the wound just keeps bleeding. Right and so

Rachel Denning (01:02:08.717)
If you don't, if you're not intentional about doing it now and making that time to actually resolve it, you're just perpetuating the problem that's going to have some sort of fallout down the road. It can't not. So prioritizing the resolving of issues is key. It's huge. It's pivotal. And with that, what Rachel keeps comparing, alluding to the crown, like we'll add to the list, no overworking.

I think that has to be mandatory. Stop overworking, both of you, with whatever, with however important it is, however urgent it is, however, it's gotta be done. Like stop overworking, because overworking is taking a big toll on your marriage. The exchange rate's too high. No manipulation, none. We do not manipulate each other at all in any way. That is just messed up.

And it's like the lowest form of... Influence? Coercion or influence, yeah. It's just sick. Learn how to persuade. Learn how to earn influence. Because those are things we do do, we use persuasion, we earn influence. Because we have so much influence with each other, like we can get the things we want and desire without manipulation. Manipulation is just sick.

If you're manipulating, it's because you're underdeveloped and have unearned influence, right? You haven't earned your influence yet. Right. And so because, well, it's back to the crown. It's on my mind. You know, you have to make these all the maydams and you have to use whatever power you do have to try to get what you want. One example was in this circumstance.

Prince Philip, I think that's his name, maybe I'm getting it wrong, the D, whatever, her husband, wanted their son to go to the boarding school he went to. She wanted him to go to this other boarding school. He said, we're doing it my way if you want to keep your husband. Basically, you're gonna divorce, I'm gonna divorce you if you don't do it my way. But it's because, yeah. The sickest manipulation over a stupid boarding school, which is a dumb idea anyways. But this is the thing that's so, think, um.

Rachel Denning (01:04:26.253)
critical is that because they show the story of his own life and how influential that boarding school had been on him because of his unique, his father hated him, his favorite sister died, the father blamed him for her death, like that boarding school had saved him. So for him it was important and it was critical. It made him into the man he was and yet he didn't tell that to his wife. He never explained any of that because one, they didn't have the time to do that. All of their conversations are happening in between.

important royal dinners and banquets and blah blah blah blah blah. So they have five minutes of conversation and the only thing he can do is use the power he has, which is manipulation, to say, if you don't do it the way I want it done, and because of all these reasons that we know as the viewers.

I'm not gonna be your husband anymore because this is how important it is to me and that was all he had you know and so I understand why people do it but it doesn't work. It's a great point though because we're not articulating well. We suck at communicating and so we result to manipulating. Exactly. Oh that's great. Because we don't know how to communicate and articulate what we're thinking and feeling we have to use manipulation to try to get what we want but that's really just a lower form of influence. If you learn how to articulate and have

to explain to your spouse, and we've had to do this with many things, like us moving to Georgia was one example because Greg didn't want to move to Georgia. I had to learn how to articulate the best I could to explain why I felt that that was the right step for our family. And that actually then bonds us further rather than driving us apart because we get what I want and not what you want.

because I manipulate you into doing what I want. And even in that instance where I didn't want it, I at least understood why you wanted it. Exactly. And so we went along, we did it, and I understood why, even though I still disagreed, but I understood why. Right. That was important. Okay, we gotta keep going. So no unresolved issues, no manipulation, no complaining. Just remove that from you. I've stopped complaining. Nobody likes a complainer. It's unattractive. You feel like crap. It makes your spouse feel like crap. It's... Just stop complaining. Now, that being said, women sometimes need to talk to men in a way that feels like complaining, but we've addressed this in other...

Rachel Denning (01:06:44.719)
episodes so go listen to those about how to really listen to your wife. Husbands might think that your wife is complaining when she's not she's just trying to share her feelings so listen to that. Don't whine. Don't be...stop being a baby. No criticism or cynicism. Don't be critical. Don't be cynical. Again, not attractive. Not elevating. You don't feel better. You're criticizing and you're cynical and you're complaining and not of each other. Now,

We do do gentle correction. We do correct each other. Absolutely. And we actually, so jumping over to the to do list, we actually ask for feedback. I remember specific pivotal moments in our marriage early on where I come and say, Rachel, what do I do that bothers you? What would you like me to change? How could I be a better husband, better man, better dad? And then you just chew on your tongue and listen. And.

and then modify your behavior. Don't be defensive and just like, okay, and literally respond. Like modify your behavior until you get it. So ask for correction. Now your spouse isn't always 100 % right, just cause you asked for correction and they think you should do something. It's not always right, but listen. Sometimes you'll be like, okay, I understand why you say that, but here's the reason why I do it and I'm gonna keep doing that thing. Yeah.

So it's not about just conforming to your spouse's view of who you should be. Right, because that's not attractive either. So just laying down and being a rug is, that's a no -no either. We don't do that. We stand up for ourselves. We each have strong opinions and we learn how to articulate them well and debate and convince each other until the one who actually has the opinion that makes the most sense, we're like, okay, yeah, you're right. This even just happened the other day as we were talking about finding houses in Portugal and you're like, oh, we should get this unfinished house. And I was like,

I was like, no, it makes no sense. And we had this discussion until I was like, okay, you're right. Fine. We could get an unfinished house and it would work out. Which was really funny because then I went off, I had to run some errands and I was like, yeah, she's right. We should just go to a different area. So we both had convinced each other to be right in the other thing by listening. And we were both really passionate and it was an irritating situation. It's been really frustrating process. And so...

Rachel Denning (01:09:05.933)
It was, we were irritated and frustrated and there was a lot of passion and irritation, but I wasn't directing it at her. And we don't fight you guys. I guess that's a good example is like there's irritation, there's frustration. I adamantly want one thing, you adamantly want another, but we're not attacking each other. We're not assaulting each other. We're not fighting. And I was just listening to a recent episode by Jordan Peterson talking about this that...

or well it doesn't matter where it came from but it was this idea that we often tend to associate any sort of conflict with

Fighting when that's not necessarily the case Oftentimes that type of conflict is just simply the process required for Resolving something. Yeah, it's just the process of resolution exactly So we have to learn how to X and I've never articulated that way But we have to learn how to be able to go through the process of resolution which involves some conflict that doesn't mean it's fighting you're just Resolving it doesn't have to be personal but again it doesn't be deliberate or it will be fighting and it will be

personal, it will be attack and it will be some slight and it will be ugly and I'll pin it to you. It's not you, it's the issue. We have to work through this and it's really irritating and frustrating and, but it's the thing, not you and me. So keep the thing separate in this little triangle. Don't attach it to your spouse.

One quick thing, no overwhelm. Just remove overwhelm from your life. It'll come in the natural process of life, but if you're adding or, you know, whatever you don't eliminate, you choose. So in a very real way, if you're feeling overwhelmed a lot, you're choosing that. And you can eliminate it. You can be strategic and you can eliminate it. So if you don't eliminate it, you choose it.

Rachel Denning (01:10:59.437)
And that ties back into the whole logistics and travel planning thing is that you can be more intentional about structuring your days so that you can get done the things you, the most important things that you need to get done. And that reduces overwhelm. If you try to do more than you can do physically and logistically in one day, well yeah, you're going to feel overwhelmed every single day. Stop doing that.

Be more realistic. Pick one or two things to be the major thing you accomplish that day and then focus on that. And then that's it.

Which that's again the power of the 28 day challenge you're doing. It's so powerful. Yes. No tobacco, no vaping. That's just a waste of money and just killing yourself. That goes into the drugs now. Yeah, I'm coming back to that. And no soda. We don't drink soda at all. No seed oils. Absolutely no seed oils. The more I learn, the more those things are just wrecking our bodies. In fact, I just finished a book called Why We Get Sick by Benjamin Bickman. You guys should all listen to it. It's phenomenal. And he just breaks down all the real hard science research. What we should not eat, what we should not eat.

and how insulin and glucose are directing our bodies. No fast food. And our kids are on board. We teach them, we're open with them. They get to choose, but they're choosing. Our son ate a chocolate muffin this morning for breakfast. Well, our 12 -year -old, because he's still in that stage, but our 16 and 17 -year -old were like, don't eat that crap. So you have to work. They work through it, and you keep allowing them. They're like, ugh. But you keep teaching them, you keep guiding them. And then eventually, when they're teens, and when most teenagers are so tempted to eat trash and...

try vaping and try drugs and try alcohol. Our kids are like, why would I even drink soda? It's like, it's not good for my body. Duh. Why would I eat a chocolate muffin? Yeah, why would I eat a chocolate muffin? Just because it tastes good, it's not good for me. That's where you want your teens to be. Okay, we're going to hit this with things we do. We exercise. We spend time in nature. These are non -negotiable stuff. We read good books daily. Individually and then...

Rachel Denning (01:12:59.853)
When it comes up, we discuss them. And read them as families. And our kids are reading great books. We're constantly discussing great books. We eat healthy food. We go on weekly dates. We spend, Rachel and I, well, we work from home. We've designed our lives, so we work from home, and home is where we want it to be. We work together. So we spend. Home, even though right now our home's in a hotel. Like wherever, like, but we have our systems and strategies. We spend the vast majority of our time together. Almost 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 3 and 6, 5 days a year. We want it to be like that. We love being together. We get good sleep.

We have lots of sex. And we make sure sex is good. So again, reminder here, everything I'm saying, we've spent tons of time researching. This isn't just like, well, let's try this or throw that on there. Like, this is all research. So exercise, nature, good books, healthy food, weekly dates, good sleep, lots of sex, travel, adventures. Adventures change you, transform you, and they make your marriage great. Have lots of adventures. We have getaways.

Often you guys have heard of say that and people the most common response is why we can't afford that We can't take that much time off. How are you doing an overnight or every month and every quarter? Every year do a honeymoon every year man do a honeymoon and we can't afford that and I thought that's why it's called an investment

into your marriage because you're investing money into making your marriage better. So try it. It works. You need to go away, just the two of you, to be a couple like you were when you were dating. And instead of just saying, well, we can't, there's no way we can do that. Stop with your... Dismissive attitudes. Oh man, it makes me want to swear. Stop with your stinking excuses. If this meant everything to you, I'd...

guarantee you'd find a way. If there was a gun to your head, you'd figure it out. If it was worth $10 million, you'd figure it out. But because it's not important to you, and yes, I'm being absolutely blunt in your face, it's not important enough to you. If it were, you'd make it happen. I promise. But because you don't prioritize it, you sit there behind your excuses saying, we can't do that. If it matters, you will figure it out. You'll find the money, you'll earn the money. I guarantee I could look at almost any budget and be like, well, duh.

Rachel Denning (01:15:15.405)
Stop buying coffee, stop buying tobacco, stop vaping, stop alcohol, your Netflix subscription, like cable, all the crap, you spend all your stinking, I don't know, toxic hair products, like, oh my gosh, get rid of that crap and invest in your marriage. Okay, that's me ranting. We spend a lot of time writing, both of us write a lot, and writing is one of the best ways to be whole. Process of motion.

deal with trauma, heal wounds. You know, clarify your thoughts and your ideals. Which also, back to this idea of being your real authentic self, I get it. There's sometimes when emotions are strong and powerful and ugly and frightening and you don't want to dump that on your spouse. In fact, you don't really want to dump that on anyone except maybe a therapist. I don't know. All those therapists are marginal in their...

helpfulness. Only about two percent of therapists are helpful. But writing is a great way to do that. So when I've had my most extreme emotions that I don't want to share with anyone, I write that out and then I throw it away or destroy it, burn it, whatever. That's a very healthy way of dealing with those things because then you can, it's a way of exterminating those rats.

Getting it out then helps to heal you and make you healthy and whole. And then you can be that authentic self. The fact that you have negative or scary emotions like that doesn't mean there's something wrong with you per se or that you're a bad person or whatever. You just need to actually do something with it in a healthy way. It's not using those emotions in a healthy way that then...

Well, because of toxicity. Yeah, it's a septic emotionally and spiritually. That's what causes the problem. It's not the fact that you actually have them in the first place. So take it out on paper, not on people. Do lots of writing. And again, I hated writing. I absolutely hoard writing. I love it. I write every single day now. And it's not it's not just journaling or whatever. It's just just writing. Sometimes you put restrictions on it by labeling it some just right. Just don't worry about grammar. Don't worry. We're just right. Get it. Get it on paper.

Rachel Denning (01:17:36.143)
We are deep into personal growth and always have been. We make that a huge priority. I think that's one of the, that are superpowers. We're just into growing and we're learning about how to be better in every aspect of our lives. So each of us are working on, you know, improving our health or fitness or education, our emotional wellbeing, all of that. Our finances, everything. Yeah. Yeah. We are great listeners. We did a whole podcast on this. So that's it. But we, we spend a lot of time listening.

We ask for feedback, modify our behavior, we pray, we practice stillness, we forgive very quickly, and we're affectionate. We hold hands a lot, we kiss a lot, we touch a lot. That's really what we mean, a lot. A lot. If you guys saw how affectionate we are, it would probably surprise most of you. From first thing in the morning until last thing at night. If we're conscious, we're affectionate.

Yes, and with our children too, not just with each other. And so they see it, well, yeah, we're just affectionate. So we express love verbally and with body touch, I mean, we're very affectionate. Right, anytime we see each other, after we haven't seen each other, even if it's like 30 minutes, we kiss or we hug or we greet each other.

Yeah, it's constant positive affection and it works now again. I know some of the things unless you're like, I don't know Yeah, I don't express my love I'm not very affectionate well Maybe part of your problem and it might be the thing that's keeping you from extro marriage or you might be thinking well That's not that big of a deal. Try it experiment with it. I think If it's bad cut it cut it out. Just go all in see

If your marriage isn't just absolutely world -class, try any of these things. We're telling you from experience and research. So this stuff just works. And it may sound like a lot, but it's a lot of little things that actually become very easy to do. And then they become automatic. And it makes life so special. And you guys know this, like when things are good in your marriage, like you just feel unstoppable.

Rachel Denning (01:19:52.141)
I can take, when things are good between me and Rachel, I can take on the world. And the problems come up, I'm like, whatever. But if it's off, if I'm off with her, and something happens, it seems so big. It seems so, I'm like, ah, it sucks. And I will articulate something.

That men have told me and that I feel but it doesn't get articulated much and I think vast majority of women don't understand Sex for men I don't know why and it's crazy and I've always felt this way but other men have expressed it to me like when when we're having sex often Like I feel unstoppable

I feel like it gives you this power that everything's right in the world and that it's going to be okay and I can face whatever comes at us if we're having sex. The act of having sex makes you feel powerful and unstoppable.

having sex, but because in order for that to work effectively, all of these pieces that we're talking about have to be working. You have to be vulnerable with each other and open with each other and connected and not insulting one another. Like all of those pieces need to be there for that actually to work in that magical, effective way, especially so that it's not.

and imposition to the wife. Because if the wife thinks, oh, okay, so I just have to have more sex with my husband, but she feels resentful or she feels used or she feels whatever, that's not working either for both the partners. And so we've often talked about and taught how marriage is the linchpin to the rest of your life. Yes. And sex is the linchpin to marriage. Yeah, the linchpin to marriage. And so because what happens when we talk about having more sex, we're not just talking about sex.

Rachel Denning (01:21:52.047)
about going through the motions of, oh, we had sex, you know. That's not what we mean. Because when someone goes to have sex, there's a lot of things that come up. There's a lot of road box. There's a lot of issues. Like every little thing that keeps you from doing that simple act is actually a...

sign a red flag an obstacle that you have an opportunity to resolve and as you resolve each of those issues that actually brings you closer together so if you are like oh we should have more sex and the wife's like i don't even want you to touch me i'm touched out i'm tired of but the kids all day blah blah that's an issue an opportunity an obstacle for you to resolve together so that then you feel more bonded so that you can get closer to that ideal of having more sex i mean it really is quite

complex and quite beautiful because there's so much that's involved. So you just have to think about it the way, like whatever immediately comes up when you're like, have more sex and you're like, oh no, this. Okay, that's the thing then. That's the thing you should be working on next is that thing because that's keeping you from getting that much closer to that type of intimate relationship. And then there will be another one and then you deal with that and on and on and on until you can actually get to the point where you can have more sex. And it still happens with us because you know, it's not

like we have this magic timing where we both want to be intimate at the same time all of the time. When it happens, one of us will instigate and then there's something that's a roadblock and then we have to address that thing and it's all a part of the beautiful process of keeping us united together. So it's not just the actual physical act itself, but everything that leads up to that is...

binding that relationship together when you can work through it instead of just brushing it off or not resolving it or ignoring it or just saying this is just the way it is or women are like that or whatever.

Rachel Denning (01:23:52.141)
quite literally this entire list this entire episode is the recipe to better sex. Yeah, it is. Because as you're working on all these things, the sexual relationship gets better, but it's actually more intense, it's deeper, it's more meaningful. There's so much more to it. And again, when it's right. A man just feels unstoppable. And when he's when it's not right.

he feels conquered, beaten, broken. And when it is right, when it's done in the right way that also meets the needs of the woman, she feels fully and completely cherished, adored, worshiped. I mean, like literally, I feel like you worship me, but like in a healthy, wonderful way.

And that's what women want. They want to feel that way so that they are secure to go through the world and be able to do all the things they need to do because they know, like, you're my rock. You've got me no matter what. Like, you are fully supporting me in every way so that I can do whatever I need to do and if I need your help and support, you're there to catch me, to lift me, to share the burden, whatever. Like, you're there 100%.

Even 200 % often, like you're fully there to do anything for me, anything and everything for me. 200 % is my special signature. Yes, exactly. Not mandatory, but awesome. So you guys, this stuff, it just works. It just...

works and it's a lot to work on but what else you gonna do with your life? Right? Besides live a great life and become the very best version of yourself. Okay, love you guys. If you have more questions or anything specific you want to deep dive in let us know. Thanks for listening. It's been a long one again and we appreciate you guys. Love you guys. We're here to just help you live your extraordinary family life. Reach out for it.

Rachel Denning (01:25:50.541)
you