#257 Practicalities of Travel as a Family, Budget Saving Tips, + How to Worldschool (No Matter Your Schooling Choice)

Rachel Denning (00:11.278)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We are your host, Greg and Rachel Denning. And we're excited. Well, we're always excited. Mostly me. I'll say I'm excited. I'm an excitable guy. I get excited about lots of things. It's true. I don't know if I would use excited to describe my emotions the past couple of days. Mm -hmm. It's been a little bit of overwhelm, not gonna lie.

because well, you guys know, we've been telling you that here we are in the World School Family Resort. We've moved in. We're getting it ready, upgraded. And like, I don't think this is an exaggeration. You can correct me if I'm wrong. I literally feel like there's more than 10 ,000 things to do. You count every little thing everywhere on the floor. That's how my brain works. I'm like, that thing on the floor, that, that, that, all of those is a thing.

that one of us has to touch and place and decide where it goes and all that. Maybe that's the difference. Yeah, I think so. I walk in and say, I need to clean this room and you want to see it's one thing. It's like clean the room. For me, every little thing counts is a thing. So yeah, your list is that's why I'm saying every item makes the list and I'm like, no, does any clean the room? No, I think that's why this is it. We finally discovered it. You have 10 ,000 things to do and I got like 600.

This is a lot, but we got it. Right. And you're like, no, I'm itemizing everything. Well, because that's how my brain thinks about it. Because I look at your, Greg has this pile of weapons in the corner here that he's collected from around the world. And to me, each one of those is an item to do. Because I think, we should hang them on the wall, which means I've got to figure out how to hang them and order the stuff. And then I have to do the actual project of.

actually hanging them. So each one of those things is at least three different steps. If not more, right? And so that's why to me it like this is so insightful. Hopefully you listening are like, I get it. Which then that's why it leads to me feeling more overwhelmed, I guess, because all of that stacking and stacking and stacking around like, I wonder.

Rachel Denning (02:29.254)
I Love it I got it. I got to share something. It was so fun. I went to pick up a Dresser, I think I can't remember what I went to pick up something and it happened to be in this antique shop And if you guys have ever been interested in antique furniture and things I?

Portugal is loaded to the hilt with antique furniture. It's pretty, it's cheap. It's super cheap. And it's just almost unlimited amounts of it. Nobody wants it anymore. I think, I think right now we've reached this period where the two generations ago who had it or built it or acquired it, they valued it. And now we've reached this new generation that like thinks Ikea is the bomb. I just want Ikea furniture.

And so they're just like, Ooh, what would I want this old stuff for? And they're just dumping it out on Facebook marketplace. And so I went to pick up something that was just gorgeous. And then it happened to be in this, this guy has this little, I guess you could call it a storefront. It's more like a warehouse. He just has the thing packed to the Hill with all this antique stuff. And I'm like, well, I'm looking for a bookshelf for my office. He's like, I got one. He walked back over there and it is gorgeous.

Stunning it is amazing and I was like why I want it. I'll take it. It's so rad I get it home and unload it and And Rachel's like did you see that? It wasn't me. It was they was like it even has carved lion faces on it, which if you know Greg Greg has a whole thing with line. He has a big lion Picture on the wall and you have a lion head so

We've got this lion theme going on and we're like, my gosh, it has lion heads carved into it. Hand carved lion heads on my bookshelf. And on the bottom here too. So exciting. So rad. Yeah. So we got all kinds of stuff going on. We'll circle back to the things we're working on here because it fits with the question we're going to talk about today. Let's dive in. Yes. Okay. So I got an amazing question.

Rachel Denning (04:44.974)
I'm going to read it to you. It starts, I'm writing to tell you both what an inspiration you've been to me over the last year. I've listened to almost all of your podcasts. I'm working my way through the Family Systems and Charts course. All your information is clear and practical and it's made a huge difference in my level of overwhelm and what our family has been able to accomplish. Woohoo! I'm so excited about that. That's wonderful. My husband and I are taking our kids, aged 13 and 11, to Europe for three months this August.

And I was wondering... Pause right there. Well, kudos. Awesome. To planning that, thinking about that, dreaming about that, taking kids who are at such a formative age. That age right there, when they're littler, they won't like appreciate the museums and the experiences as much. Although we still travel with all of our little kids and never regret it because it's also formative. But when they're a little older...

They can comprehend things better locations and history and stories and all kinds of things. Yeah, it's right at a formative age. So for you to say, you know what? We're taking our two kids. We're going to go for a month to Europe. Is it three months? Three months. my goodness. That's massive. Massive, massive. So kudos to you for a big undertaking that most people don't try to do. Right. And part of the reason, because I want to add this in, part of the reason is that's also a difficult and challenging age.

teens, tweens, tweens and teens, it can be more difficult. It's very formative and it has a huge impact, but a lot of people I think resist it because there can be resistance to it. At those ages, they can't completely comprehend the value that this is gonna bring. They just think, I have to leave my friends and my comfort. No, I don't want to do that. Especially at that age, depending on your kids and their maturity level, 11 through 14. Well, even.

16, 17, for some of them. I'm saying it was specifically for this one attitude that kind of is prevalent in that age. Like this requires effort? Yeah, they're like, anything that requires effort or inconvenience, I'm out. Right. You're like, this is the coolest thing ever. Like, does it require me to do some work? No, thanks. I'll skip this. And we speak from experience because I think all of our kids, well, especially our boys have all gone through that. And, you know, we have a 13 year old right now. Same thing. He's been...

Rachel Denning (07:06.99)
all over the world and he's appreciated the experiences, but still will be like, what, I've hurt, nah. Let's go do these awesome things, like, eh, I'm out. Exactly, right. So that's why it can be, people can be hesitant to do it, but we also know that it can be so formative to them that you get past that resistance and not every experience is gonna be amazing. There's still gonna be experiences where they're like, eh, I'd rather be at home, you know.

They're gonna do those types of things, but it's still worth the effort because of the other things that will happen, which we'll talk about. Okay, I was wondering if you would have any tips for traveling with teens and tweens. I'm curious about, and she lists three different things. I'll read them right now and then we'll address each of them. How to find social opportunities and meet other families while traveling. I would love our kids to get out of the bubble of our small town and meet kids around the world. Two, any budgeting ideas for traveling Europe.

Three, our kids are not homeschooled, but I would like to use this trip as an experiment in world schooling slash homeschooling that we might continue when we get home. Any tips on introducing older kids to homeschooling would be appreciated. I would love to hear you speak more about the practicalities of traveling with a family. Love it. And I think all three of those questions are relevant or will be relevant to most of our audience at some point.

We've got to explore alternative education for our families and for our children. We can't just stick our head in the sand and be like, no, I went to public school, kids, school, public school, and just not think about it. We've got to question that and look for different opportunities because everything's changed. Right. And I think relevant because we're not saying every single person will or has to take a three month trip to Europe, although that would be amazing and you would not regret it. But even if you stay home,

You should be seeking out, which we're going to get into this definition a little, these world schooling type opportunities where you are learning from the world around you and you're expanding beyond your little corner of it. That you, even if nothing else, you get into the next town, the next county, the next state. You need to be reaching out and expanding your horizons. I'm going to hit on that one hard because, so you guys, I'm finalizing my book and getting it.

Rachel Denning (09:32.462)
And this morning I was sitting in this exact same chair writing and what I was writing about this morning was about the need to get out of your little teeny corner of the earth to see more. Yeah. And experience more. I would attribute...

I don't know if a large part, but potentially a large part of our children's, especially our teen and young adults development to them having had multiple experiences that expand their way of the world. Like they are able to articulate things, understand things, problem solve, have critical thinking, like all of these levels of capabilities they have have come from.

getting out of their corner of the world and seeing the world from other people's points of view. Exactly. Love it. Okay, so let's start. Question number one. Okay, so first of all, she's saying, any tips for traveling with teens and tweens? Now, the first one, she's saying how to find social opportunities and meet other families. Let's start there. When I first read this question, I think my...

My initial response was, why would you want to interact with other humans? No, it wasn't that. But it was. Rachel's massive introverted side comes out and be like, why would anyone want to interact with other people when you could be alone? That was not what it was. But it was something along the lines of, I don't know that we ever took our children traveling with the intention of making friends. Now making friends,

sometimes was a side benefit, but I don't know that it's ever the primary reason or the primary outcome. Like there's so many things that happen during traveling and so many benefits. One of them can be making friends, but if your entire goal was to make friends, I don't think traveling would be the best way to accomplish that per se. Yeah, it's not the best vehicle. Yeah. Now, although some of our all time best friends and

Rachel Denning (11:48.43)
like friends that we've had for years and years and years only came because we were out traveling. But it wasn't the objective. I think they did come from us, it was long -term traveling, like where we spent three months or more in one place type of thing. Or that we were out traveling because we met a lot of people while we're on the move and these call them divine coincidences.

we cross paths with people and connected and have stayed connected for many years because we were out traveling. And that kind of stuff definitely can happen, especially if you're open to it, but it's not, it's definitely not something you can plan. You cannot plan to have those divine coincidences where you meet up with somebody that becomes your best friend. It's just something that happens because you are out in the world, because you go out, because you take that hero's journey, it happens. But it's not like, this is my goal.

this is the best way to achieve it. It's definitely not that in my mind, right? Like there's a lot of, like I said, a lot of benefits to traveling, but if it's your primary goal to make friends, that's not the primary vehicle for doing that. That's one thought. But that being said, she says here that, you know, we want to meet other families while traveling. I would love our kids to get out of the bubble of our small town and meet kids around the world. That's going to happen. You may not make it.

Friends, but you are definitely going to have lots of experiences that expand your reality. I would say opportunities for experiences because we've met families that are out traveling and they're so glued to their phones or iPads or whatever or their video games. They're so

Trapped in their own small reality that they take with them that yeah, they bring with them You can bring the bubble with you exactly In fact, you can bring the small town mentality with you and go see all the big cities and beautiful place around the world and not be affected at all right because You're a standing in Paris and all you're thinking about is your little small town where you've got your headphones on and you listening to your playlist or whatever and And which brings a thought to mind, you know about tips?

Rachel Denning (13:59.502)
there has to be a very careful balance between using technology while you travel and not using it. And so that's one of the things we love to be clear with our kids. Like, yeah, they're, we're not the type of family that are like no devices at all, you know, while you're on a 13 hour flight, you know, we're okay with using some devices. That's the time when we're going to say, go ahead. Yeah. Then numb yourself. So.

Unless you need to sleep, which we'll say, hey, look, you better go to bed because when we land it's morning and we're going to spend a whole day going. So you better go to sleep. But if not, we'll go, yeah, go ahead. And that's also a time. Same thing. Like we're not the type of people who will give our kids melatonin to sleep unless we're changing time zones and crossing oceans. Then we're like, you know what? It's supposed to be because that's one of my another strategy is when we get on a plane, I think about what's the time zone where we're landing.

and I try to get on that clock as soon as possible. So if it's nighttime, I'll let them have some dinner and watch a movie, but then I'm like, I'm giving you some melatonin and you're going to sleep so that we can wake up in the new time zone. But other than that, we like to be pretty restrictive with device use. That means when we're out and about, no, there's no devices. Now we might get home and watch a movie or something at home.

Hotel, sorry, we're used to calling everywhere we stay home. In fact, this is a rambling thought, but we talked to our sons a couple days ago, because they're in Florida, and they were talking a little bit about that, you know, that they are kind of having a difficult time in what they're doing right now. It's not, they're not getting the results they want. And he was talking about, I don't know if he was trying to connect it to being homesick, but like we don't have a home. It's like we don't have a physical home, he says, but.

being together as a family is home. I've always counted just us being together is always home. And so it doesn't matter to us if we're in a hotel or we're in an Airbnb or whatever, that's always home. And so we're always like, let's go home because we're together as a family. And so that's home. But, you know, so back to the devices, when we're out and about and having the experiences, that's when we're like, no, sorry.

Rachel Denning (16:17.134)
You're not having your headphones on. You're not having a device on. We're not walking through London with you have your headphones on or whatever. Like no way. You've got to be present here. Well, because ultimately the only way if we're concerned about getting out of our bubble and having opportunities that can transform you or change your paradigm, you have to be in the moment in order for those to happen. You cannot be checked out.

And expect to be touched by the world around you. And so we're super intentional about that. That's huge. Like, and find a way to be persuasive. Don't, don't use it as a punishment all the time and don't be harsh about it. Like teach them, encourage them, even though they might initially be disinterested or like, well, I don't care about this old building. Right. Just another old building. Like, are you kidding me? Another cathedral in Europe?

Another castle? Teach them to stay engaged and you know, they might there might be some resistance, there might be a little boredom, but eventually they're gonna pay attention and that's where the pattern interrupter and the transformation begins to take place. Well, we have to remember and I think this is true of all of us, including adults, is that it's not the big experiences, the big event.

that changes you, that very often it's just the small little things, it's something that matters to you, and that's gonna be different for every person. So you might go somewhere and see something, and maybe 90 % of it you're literally bored by. But if there's that one, 2 % of things that are interesting, that's what will stick with you, or stick with your kid. They might see the coolest sword that they've ever seen, or they might...

learn some little tidbit of thing. And so even if the rest of the experience, they were bored by it, but they got that one little thing out of it, that's valuable right there. And so we have to start to see it from that perspective of like, you're really, I've learned to call nuggets. You're really going for the nuggets. You're not going to be completely entertained and not every person in the family, especially either. You're not going to be completely enthralled by everything you do and all of it, but there are going to be nuggets in there that are valuable to each person. And so we're really,

Rachel Denning (18:35.182)
like this little treasure hunt of going on finding the nugget. And you can be more intentional about it by if you know what your kids are interested in, we'll do those things. If your kid loves swords, go to a sword shop, go to a museum with swords. Like definitely include those types of things in your travel. And that's how, that's what you lead with for each kid. What are we doing?

We're gonna go to this museum. No, come on. Like there is the coolest Armory in this building, right? And it has all the weapons they used from the 11th century to the 16th century This is legit that kid's gonna be out of his mind You don't ever have to use the word museum, right? Just like we're going to this cool armory with ancient weapons. What when are we going there? When are we going there? And like you totally different lead?

where the kids excited and then with the other one you're like, okay, we're going, you know, with one of your daughters, whatever you're like, they have this display of all the dresses they wore through the Victorian era. Right. Like whatever, like whatever it is, like the bling bling from 400 years ago or whatever. And like, let's go see it. Like lead with those things. Well, and learn how to tell stories, even simple things. And this is this is

true for younger children specifically in this example, but the principle is the same as for last year, no, two years ago when we were gonna go to Norway, I convinced my smallest girls with candy cane. Like that was the selling point for them. For one, we don't really do candy. We rarely do candy canes once in a while for Christmas. But I told them, I said we're gonna go to

Christmas markets and all of this. And I'm like, they're going to have candy canes. Candy canes. Can we get a candy cane? Sure. We can get a candy cane at the Christmas markets in Scandinavia. Right. And that to them was the selling point. That's what mattered to them. That's what they were excited about. And so you find whatever it is your kid or teen or tween is excited about. That's what you lead with. With the teens and tweens we led with dog sledding. Yes. And reindeer. Reindeer and that. So again,

Rachel Denning (20:55.726)
find the experiences or create the experiences that will facilitate the transformation and be exciting and enticing to each one, that's gonna make a huge difference. And that is also included for us going to playgrounds, places where you and I wouldn't necessarily be interested in going to, but when there's a playground, we take our kids. For us, travel is not just about doing the things,

that are quote unquote educational or you know like the whole purpose of the trip. We're like if we're in Europe and there's a playground and our kids want to go, we go. And we let them play and enjoy it so that they then have this positive association. And that can even be true for queens because they still like to play and climb. Well yeah, yeah, let them climb on cool things. Let them do the things they want to do. We were just in Sevilla like a couple weeks ago. First of all, there's this amazing tree that our whole...

family loves. And so when we see the tree, we stop and we let them play on the tree because they love it. We don't say, no, we have to go see this thing over here. You know, the thing I want to see like, no, let's play on the tree. Now they have a positive association with the city of something cool to them. Which is interesting. You're like, we were in Sevilla, Spain and like, would you, we got to climb on a tree. Yeah, right. But there's a, there's something there that's

the association and what's really cool is it's right next to the University of Sevilla. Yeah. And this cool moat and building. And one of our favorite restaurants. One of our favorite restaurants. And so it's all this stuff around there and they're creating this cool association. And I think that too often when kids or teens or tweens complain about travel, I think it's often because parents only do the things they want to do or feel like will be beneficial for them rather than doing the things that the kids

the kid themselves actually would like to do, even if that's something that to you seems a waste of time. Right. Like we're going to sit at this playground. We also see it like in very rigid, very strict, very packed schedules. Yeah. Here, here, here on a time scale. Look, go, go, go. And it's like, Hey, can we, can we just enjoy this for a minute? Nope. Got to get to the next thing. Right. And then you're like, this is a chore. I can't wait to be done with my vacation. Well, that's a good point. That's another very important tip because.

Rachel Denning (23:21.838)
For us, I would say less is more. Like there is an endless amount of things that you can see. You will never, and I've had to learn this, you will never be able to see all the things there are to see. And so mostly you have to decide what you're gonna not see and spend more, like have it be a more relaxed schedule. That makes it more sustainable for everybody. The entire family.

will enjoy the experience way better if you do less things. And okay, here's I think one of the coolest things that now that we're thinking through and articulating it, it was planned. It's, it's planning for spontaneity. Yes. Having a more flexible schedule allows you any well, so it opens you up.

to the possibility and then allows you to take advantage of the things you didn't know were going to come. Yeah, it gives you time to climb on the tree or whatever. Or meet somebody and they're super cool and you're like, man, let's just, let's hang out with these guys. Let's go get some gelato. Yeah, let's go do something fun together with this family we just met. Or the locals just said we should try this and you go over and you're like, this is one of the coolest places ever. Let's stay here and come back again tomorrow because we have some flexibility. Exactly.

Yeah, so for me when I'm planning our schedule, and this is the way I like to travel as well, I pick some of the most important things, like the things that to me are a must see, do not miss, and those are the ones I focus on getting to, and getting tickets or whatever, scheduling a time, but then the rest of the time it's kind of just open. So that we have, here's something we don't always understand. When you plan an itinerary,

while you're sitting at the comfort of your home, you're not necessarily going to feel like sticking to that itinerary when the day comes because you don't know what's going to happen between now and then. And the day that you have planned for this entirely busy packed schedule might be the day right after you missed a flight and you get in late and you know you're late. You don't know what's going to happen. And so I love to just leave plenty of space in there for the unknown because without that,

Rachel Denning (25:38.542)
That's when everyone grows to hate traveling and then they want to go home and they never want to do it again because they had a miserable experience because it was go, go, go, go, go with no downtime, no recovery time and nothing fun that they enjoyed. That's how you ruin travel for kids. A word of caution though. This could backfire if you're not proactive people. If you left some downtime.

and the whole family is very lethargic or not very proactive and you're like, okay, we don't have anything on schedule. fine. Let's just sit here. And then you spend a few hours every single day just sitting in some apartment in some rad place in Europe. On your device. Yeah, you're sitting on your devices. Right. You're like, you deadlings are full of it. We left tons of downtime. It was so boring. Yeah. We spent hundreds of hours sitting inside while we're in Europe. Like, well, duh, don't do that. Yeah. And so the way that I kind of

counteract that is, like I said, I'll have the top things I wanna do that like these are must see. And it might be a must see for me, a must see for you, a must see for one of the kids. It's like something that if this person is like, I want to see them. Then I'll also have a list of, well, that would be cool to see type things where it's available. I've done my research and then it's like, it's on a day by day basis where like, hey guys, here's some options for today. What would you like to do?

And then we're like, let's maybe go see that. And then we go see that. It's literally what we did for our Iceland trip. Yeah. And I asked the boys, I said, what are the coolest things you want to see? What are the must -sees? What are the cool things? And then we broke it down day by day and region by region. So like, okay, we're in this area now. Here are all the things we could do. And so we planned it out before we got there. And then when we actually got there on the ground, we're like, okay, now we're here. Here is that possibility. Which one do you guys want to hit? Which one you want to do? Depending on how you actually feel today as well.

It worked out great because we've done some flexible planning. Right. And we also have to remember that within all of that, and here's sometimes what we forget when we're planning a trip, especially if it's three months, within all of that, you still have to eat. So you have to go to restaurants or you have to go grocery shopping so you can buy food to prepare at your hostel or whatever that has a little kitchen or Airbnb. Both experiences we recommend. Yeah.

Rachel Denning (28:03.502)
And you still have to wash laundry. Like there's still the daily things that you have to do that we, without experience, you forget to plan that into the schedule. Like we need a shopping day or time. We need a laundry time. And so nobody cleans that. Yeah. Nobody thinks like today's laundry day. Yeah, exactly. And so we have to remember that that has to be a part of the schedule still. And it can be a very enjoyable part of the schedule.

It's an experience to go grocery shopping in another country, in another language, in another culture, currency, and to see what they, like I always feel like it's a treasure hunt. Like you go to this new, totally new store and you wander around looking for stuff and you're like, my gosh, what is this? I've never seen this before. I don't even know what that is. And please, please, please, this is what I beg of you, try local foods. Yes.

Don't go to the grocery store looking to find the same little brand of crap cold cereal you eat at home. Do not deprive yourself and your children of awesome experiences. You're like, but my kids only eat Lucky Charms. Well, then let them go hungry. Say, hey, we're in this other country. This is what they eat for breakfast. So you can have that or go hungry like up you whatever. Not buying stupid American garbage. Especially because it's often more.

because it's imported. Who cares? Well, but that's what I'm saying. That's another reason. Don't eat the stuff you're used to because it's imported to that country and it's more expensive. Even if they have it, we're like, no, we're not getting that. We're getting these other things because that's part of the experience. Right. So, so remember that that I mean, some of our best experiences in countries have been meals. Absolutely. Meals at restaurants or meals that we've prepared because, you know, with

these random weird ingredients were like, wow, this is all they had at the store. What is this stuff? And that becomes part of the experience itself. And so we have to think about that. And the stories and the memories are so fun. So think about that aspect too of like, okay, part of the cool experiences we're gonna have is gonna include eating or sometimes even doing laundry. And that's the thing about travel is that nothing is the same that you're used to. And so you think doing laundry looks like this when in reality,

Rachel Denning (30:26.958)
It's a totally new and different experience. And if you include the kids in part of that, you know, it also includes frustration often because you're like, what? Why is it this way? Right. But that's all part of it. The mundane annoyances of trying to get things done that need to get done aren't fun, but include them in all of that. Right. And then like they become more competent.

Well, that's part of the point. Yeah. Because you're exposing them to so many different things. And you're having to solve problems and figure things out. Like that's all a part of it. And so when you just do those things and basically voice it out loud, like, how do we solve this? What do we do about this? How do we figure this out? Even though it can be frustrating and annoying with the right attitude, those are the types of things that actually bring the growth and development that you're looking for.

And the stories and like our families talk about we talk about all kinds of crazy things that never were in the travel plans, but happen and you're like, yeah, you remember that time that was crazy. And that's how we often met people. Yeah. Is it in those experiences? So getting out and having experiences and being open and being willing to talk and communicate like, so, so one of the first questions was, well, how do we get them to meet people?

The simple answer is talk to people. Just talk to people wherever you're doing. You're often talking to people trying to solve a problem sometimes. Like where's the laundromat? How do I find that? Where's a good place to eat? So you're talking to other people. Okay, here's one of my favorite ones around food is like, hey, what's the local food here? And I'll just, if I see like a family walking along and they have like kids the same age and they're cool, I'm just like, hey, sorry, excuse me.

We're just here visiting like what's the best thing to eat in this town? Like what what is this city known for the food? What meal? What dish? And people light up and they get all excited and share and they'll like walk you through town and take you to this restaurant or or though I've been many times guided personally through a grocery store. get this and then this and then this and prepare it like this.

Rachel Denning (32:47.342)
It's like, it's so fun. So if you're just friendly and you ask, you talk to people, like cool things happen. And then there's been many times where like, well, we'll make it come over to the house and they have us over and then they make up this traditional meal and the kids play and we have the great conversations, get to know people and we become friends. I mean, that happens so many times. Exactly. So yeah, we can't discount the importance of those small.

daily experiences. We sometimes feel like we're trying to escape that through travel. But in reality, when we incorporate that into the travel experience, it becomes super valuable. And I want to add this too, because I feel like it's such an important point. And I also love, of course, that it came from one of our children, because Parker, our oldest son, did that podcast interview with you. And I just loved how he talked about that, because we backpacked through Europe.

It was like 17 countries with him last year. Well, with all the kids, but. And he talked about how, you know, when we think about travel, and this is true for everyone, and we think about all the cool experiences we're going to do, like it's all the bucket list exciting things. But the real transformation from travel comes from all the behind the scenes things that you really don't want to do that really aren't fun. That's where the transformation happens.

And we have to remember that, especially when it comes to our kids. Our kids are tougher and have more grit and have more character because they've had to sit in airports at 1 a because they've had to walk very long distances when they're exhausted in the rain, because they've had to go without sleep, because they've had to go hungry. It's all of those forced experiences that come from travel that have caused the character development. And so,

I think that we could easily discount that and think, I just want to get through this or we're just going to be grumpy right now. We're going to be upset rather than realizing that it's those opportunities that are the ones that can teach you or yourself and your kids the most when you learn how to deal with them with grace and a good attitude. Well, that's what I was going to say is like, those are the best teaching moments. Absolutely. Really the best opportunities and the way you handle them.

Rachel Denning (35:10.766)
will teach your kids how to handle things. So if you get all grumpy and angry and frustrated and you're just cursing the way things are, then guess what your kids are going to do? They're just going to do that same thing. But if you think, hey, we got a long haul here that was unexpected, there's a strike. All the transportation strikes. Or they just did a random roadblock. Okay. Or the trains are not running today. What in the world are we going to do? And you have a good attitude about it. And you

get together to solve a problem and you all endure what we embrace the suck is the same. You all embrace the suck together. Man, it's such a great teaching moment. And when you lead out with a good attitude, which you are amazing at doing especially, I just love to see how the kids rise up and like literally.

literally rise up to meet that occasion because they're like, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna do this. We're gonna make it through. They are so good at it now. Came to mind was last year when we, we were training and busing and we arrived in, I think it was Riga, Latvia, and we had to walk in the rain at night.

to our Airbnb. It was sketchy. It eventually led into this very sketchy neighborhood. It looked like a haunted house to me. I'm not kidding you. It was all dark and it was like a haunted house. Before that we got out of the train station and there was drug deals going down right in front of us. I see all that stuff because I grew up in some street savviness.

And so I'm noticing all this stuff and I'm constantly paying attention. I've trained my older kids and so they're like, we're giving each other glances. So the little kids have no idea what's going on. The older kids are like, yeah, watch this guy, watch that person. There's a deal that's going on right there. So we're cognizant of all this stuff. It was just, we just haven't ended up taking this route. And we're all exhausted and hungry, of course. And so we walk, it was a long way, maybe 30 minutes in the rain to this.

Rachel Denning (37:17.198)
Haunted house and then it's cold mind you it's winter. It's winter time it cold wet rain and then we get to this as opposed to the dry rain opposed to the dry rain and so then we get to This place I had booked and it was insufficient. It had one bed and there was what nine of us. Yeah, and it and it stunk really bad and Supposedly we were supposed to have another room as well. And when we opened up that room it

was being lived in. I mean, it was a disaster. Looked like a cat woman lived there or something like it was bad. And so here we all are hungry, cold and tired. How that person ever got a listing online that made it look nice. I have no idea. And what do we do? You just have to solve problems like and as well as like I am. I have become really good at planning, but inevitably there are.

things like that that happen. Like you can plan as well as you can, but there's still, even for me, there's that 10 % of things that are like, whoops, there we go. I did everything I could and this happened. Yeah, and so this happened. So you just, you know that that's gonna happen. And then what you have to do is you just have to solve the problem. You're like, okay, what do we do now? How do we solve the problem? And mostly that included everybody sitting around waiting while you and I are on the phone looking for another place to stay. And then we have to walk.

I think we didn't actually, we walked to the subway and then we took the subway. But then this was what's amazing. And I found this again and again. We took the subway to the new place, walked over, checked in and right around the corner was this quite adorable little Christmas market that had all the food we could eat, even though they were just closing down. Well, this guy was, he had this gigantic cauldron over an open fire with

all the most amazing food and it was just like the perfect setting. And he's like, here, I'll just give it all to you guys. I mean, we got it for cheap and loaded up, ate this amazing stuff, walked around the market. It was perfect. It was wonderful. It ended up being an absolutely perfect evening. And we couldn't have planned that. Yeah, we couldn't have. No way to plan that. Right. And it was absolutely awesome. And so I guess the whole point of this is expect those things to happen and know that...

Rachel Denning (39:40.558)
with the right attitude, those experiences will be as valuable as anything else you do. If not more valuable than going to the museum or going to the sites. It's those little things that actually make the big difference. They're so awesome. Okay. We talked a lot about that. I had a couple more thoughts about meeting people though. Yes. We just get engaged with life. So we get there and we're like, well, let's take some lessons.

So you get scuba certified or you go to a rock climbing gym or you go out rock climbing or you do, you sign up for a walking tour, a food tour, a cycling tour. You take a trip. You're going to meet so many people that way. We met people, going to the gym, go in the gym is like awesome. Right? Cause if you're people like you like to go to the gym, go to the gym, you're going to get tied into a new community.

You're gonna meet all kinds of cool people. Go to church. Go to whatever it is you like to do. Go out dancing. Go find the things you guys enjoy or you want to try and go get engaged in those things and then talk to people when you're there. You will meet so many people just by getting engaged in activities that are there. Yeah and again this isn't the type of thing where you're gonna...

create this little community because it's very often you're all on the move. And so it's touch points. You're gonna make these quick connections with people, but they can be very impactful connections because there's so many random people that we've met where they just stand out for some way and they impact or influence you in some way because of their viewpoint or the thing they did or their kindness or whatever. Those are the types of social opportunities you're looking for more than, you know, like we're gonna.

find these friends and we're gonna stay there and whatever. It's not that as much unless, of course, you intentionally plan to go to those types of community places. There are hubs around the world where they're called world schooling hubs or community hubs. There are hubs where people gather. Now, I mean, that's even the point of what we're doing now with our world schooling.

Rachel Denning (42:01.582)
world school family resort that we just acquired. That is one of the points. We want to make this a hub for traveling families because that is one of the things people talk about a lot when they're traveling is they want more community. They want to connect with like -minded people. Exactly. It's so interesting to me because this has been our experience and all the people we've talked with for almost a couple of decades now, is like, I want to meet like -minded people because we feel...

so alone and isolated sometimes. It feels so lonely to live unconventionally. Right. Like I want to step out of the norm and live differently. Like where are my people? And it's hard to find. So that's one of the main reasons here. We're going to host retreats for couples, for men, for women, for youth, for young adults. And we also wanted to have a place where families can come and go and they can come and stay for a few days or a few weeks.

or a few months or say with other meet with other families that are coming through and do their studies here and do their work here. Set up for digital nomads. To come have that experience as a family instead of being travelers instead of just tourists. Yeah and being able to connect with people on a more long -term basis as opposed to what generally happens is these touch points which again they're valuable they can be valuable but it

You need both. You need both, exactly. Right. So, okay, that was all number one. Let's go to number two. Okay, any budgeting ideas for traveling Europe? I would say that... Go to the best restaurants in France. Budget... That's not a budgeting idea, but that is worthwhile. Budget some money for some good food in France, man. Okay, all joking aside.

Please try to budget, if you can, try to budget at least one Michelin star restaurant. Like go experience, and you don't have to take your kids and say they won't appreciate it. But go experience what it's like to eat at a Michelin restaurant and be like, okay, this is wow. Wowzers. I would say as far as budgeting though, there are very nice hostels.

Rachel Denning (44:22.542)
in Europe and so staying at hostels with your kids is a great way to budget. And there are many hostels that are very family friendly. Yeah, I mean we stayed at some really great hostels. Now of course there are some trashy hostels but we've stayed at really great hostels. Kind of hit or miss sometimes. Yeah, I mean I tried doing my research. But then other ones were phenomenal. The one we stayed at in Bavaria, amazing.

The one we stayed at in, I got all the cities confused. Well, we stayed at one in Venice that was really great and in Copenhagen, there's been a lot of really great hostels. But then there are in, I don't know if these are just a German thing, they call them human farms. Yeah, those are, especially if you're coming the summer. Human means like youth. Wow, those are so great. Yeah, so staying at those can be great. Yep.

Sorry, you're gonna have to Google it. Because I remember specifically what it's called. It would be like J -U -N -G -E -N, I think something like that. And so yeah, I can't remember. It's a German word. But look up like a human hostel or whatever. Just search that. They are awesome. Some of our best memories. We're staying with our friends in places like that. Right. And sometimes they're like big, giant buildings, barns, fixing. And sometimes we stayed in they're like campground. Well,

cabins with big grassy areas and things like that. They're great. So you stayed some right downtown and then sent out in the country and they've been awesome. Yeah. There are long -term car rental deals that you can get the fact the Renault is the German or not German French carmaker. They actually do like a three month lease. So you can rent a car the whole time when you're in Europe and that gives you a lot of transportation. It's very affordable.

Yeah, and that can be a little challenging to figure out, but it is possible. But the other option too is taking trains and buses. I mean, it's not always as... Buses were affordable. Some of the trains were expensive. Yeah, some of the trains were expensive. But you can get passes. You can fly... yeah, that's true. We did passes that were better. But you can fly on Ryanair and EasyJet. Yeah, so that's the other thing. It was so cheap. You can fly all the way across Europe for 30 euros.

Rachel Denning (46:34.958)
Well, back to the budgeting idea. One of the best ways and here's one of the ways that I do this because it like again, if you're sitting at home at your house planning your entire itinerary, it's going to be different than when you're on the ground and you have some flexibility because if you look at Ryanair or EasyJet and you have flexibility with where you can go, that can

save you a lot of money. If you're determined, like I'm going from this city to that city, well, you're going to have to pay whatever they're charging. But if you're somewhere and you're like, okay, I'm in this city, where can I go? And you're like, wow, 30 bucks to this country or this city, that's the one you pick? That's a way of saving money, right? So that's another approach is that sometimes our itinerary is completely determined by the flight options we find. Exactly. And what's interesting about that is you can fly from one...

city all the way across Europe for super cheap and then fly back to a neighboring country to the first you know neighboring to the first country for super cheap and whereas going in between them could be way more expensive yeah you can best bounce all over and just and be flexible like that right and trains are good subways are good public transportation in the cities is fantastic yes all across europe groceries i wanted to share that grocery stores are are very affordable the food quality here is amazing

and the groceries are very affordable. So if you plan on hitting a restaurant often, it's gonna be far, far, far more expensive than hitting grocery stores and the food's amazing. Yeah, so that's another benefit of staying at a hostel or staying at an Airbnb. Now if I book Airbnbs, I usually find that outside of the city, they're more affordable.

But then that often requires us to rent a car to get there. So it's kind of a trade off. Or well, often you're actually really good at this of like finding a subway line or a train line or a bus line. That's so it takes us right outside of town and it's literally a 10 minute bus or subway and saves us hundreds of dollars on accommodations. So the combinations are great. They're just outside of town and we walk right out. It's like a five minute walk to the subway or the bus stop and we're right back downtown. Yeah.

Rachel Denning (48:53.422)
which is really nice. We did that recently in Dubai. It was perfect. Walked over, got on the subway, went downtown and came back out. It worked out great. True. But staying at a hostel or an Airbnb that has a kitchen then allows you to save money on food because you don't have to go to restaurants. You get.

Like we rarely, if ever, eat breakfast out because we always just buy things to eat at home. So you can have meats and cheeses or yogurts or milk. Which is what we do often for even lunches and snacks too. There's salamis here and cheeses and fruit. There's a lot you can just throw in a backpack and eat joyfully here and inexpensively. Okay, anything else that you can think of at the moment for budgeting?

Rachel Denning (49:38.926)
No, I'm remembering with fondness when we first came to Europe for our first three months, we bought bikes. We got here, we got on like a Facebook marketplace, we bought bicycles and we biked as a family in the little bike trailer for groceries. We biked everywhere. There was bike trails everywhere and Europe's really like that. We biked for three months and that was one of my all time favorite times of our life. It was so...

Well, and okay, this is another approach too, because when you're thinking about budgeting, you're always going to save money the less you move around. Every time you move to a new city, a new place, a new place to stay, whatever, that's going to cost you money. So one approach is in that case specifically, we stayed in one place.

one townhouse in Germany for three months. Now we went out and we rented a car on the weekends and we drove around and did stuff like that. The rest of the time we biked. That is one type of experience. It's completely valuable. You may not see as many places. You may not hit as many countries. But it's a very valuable experience in itself and you often meet more people. Right. So that's another approach, especially if you if you're more concerned about budgeting than you are about.

seeing lots of places, that's one approach. You go for three months, but you stay in one area. Stay longer and negotiate, because you can negotiate with any Airbnb or whatever, like, hey, we'll stay longer term, is there a better deal? And they can give you a better deal. Well, they often even just offer it. Like, if you book longer term, they give you a discount. And then if you pick a strategic spot, like, you could easily hit four or five countries within just four or five hours if you hit the right spot. But then, you know, on the weekends, you're doing that and whatnot.

And during the week, you're having the local experience. You're going to the local places and like immersing in the culture. And, you know, we had great time just walking to the local park and feeding the ducks at the pond and eating bratwurst at the lake and little things like that, which aren't again, aren't huge. But in some ways, they're even more memorable. And we walked everywhere and we're there while there's wild blackberries.

Rachel Denning (51:55.118)
for blackberries. Yeah, the blackberries were in season. So every day we went out and did a blackberry. And we walked on the paths in the forests. That was awesome. And it's a lot more of a slow, it's a slow travel experience, but it saves a lot more money that way. And it's a lot, it's more sustainable for sure, because I feel the faster, the faster paced you are, the more places you go, the more easily people get burnt out. Ooh, on the budget thought, a lot of the public transportation is free for children.

So like all the trains and subways were free. Actually in Europe, museums. Some of the museums are. No, most of them. It might be under the age of 10. I don't remember for sure. Some of them were under 18. So depending on where you are, always check because you might be, you might jump on and be like, I gotta buy tickets here. Make sure you double check because there are lots and lots of museums and castles and public places that anything under 18 or anything under 16, it depends on what it is. Anything under 15, it's free. In fact, there's a ton of museums that are just free for everybody. Yep.

That's true. Okay, last question. She says, our kids are not homeschooled, but I want to use this trip as an experiment in world schooling. Any tips on introducing older kids to homeschooling would be appreciated. Well, in a lot of ways, that's the purpose of traveling. To us, that is the definition of world schooling. World schooling is learning from the world as it presents itself to you. And finding, I guess the active part of that is,

finding the lessons that are there for you to learn. Because something can happen to you, you can have, like we talked about with the challenging, frustrating experiences, they can happen, and that can either make you a better person or a worse person, depending on how you respond to it. And so in essence, that's what world schooling is. It's learning how to respond to the world around you in a way that makes you a better person. So if, well, yeah, and then,

Okay, no matter what your kids do for school, this is for everybody, no matter what your kids do for school, you and I have a moral obligation to help them love learning. They have to love learning. And sometimes that means separating it out from school because their school experience is kind of killing the love of learning. They have to love learning. So your job, my job is to make learning fun and exciting, enjoyable and interesting.

Rachel Denning (54:21.422)
And if we find the right books and the right experiences and the right tour guides, then learning is amazing and kids love it. And, and most of the time they're like, wow, this is what world schooling is like. This is what homeschooling is like. I'm in, this is amazing. If you make it a good experience. And I think specifically that's if, I mean, there's a reason why they use the phrase interest led learning, because when you learn,

how, as the parent, to pay attention to the interests of your children and then use those as a pathway for learning, then it becomes a completely different experience for the child. A lot of times it's done backwards. We, the experts, try to decide what a person or a child is supposed to learn and then we try to force feed that to them. By making them memorize, you know. Or whatever. When was the war of 1812?

But if you take their interests and use that as the starting point and use that as the guide, it eventually leads them to lots of other things. It leads them to learning about all the things they quote unquote should learn about, but it starts with swords or it starts with dragons or it starts with mythology. Like there's a lot of starting points that when used,

in an effective way become the tool for loving learning. Absolutely. And on that same line is like get them into books, age appropriate books that have historical and geographical context. Yeah. So I love to do that. I love to find, because our kids love to do audio books and that's one of the things that...

we will do when we're traveling, especially if you're on a train or you're on a plane or you're waiting in an airport, like audio books are great. And I love to get audio books about the places where we're gonna be. Specifically, I love to get story -based books about the place. I'm not getting some dry, you know, whatever travel guide, but like we went to Norway and so my...

Rachel Denning (56:40.046)
and only the ones who were interested in it. I didn't make all of them do it, but I said, hey, here's a series about Norse mythology, who wants to listen to this? And my, at the time, 16 year old or 17 year old, he wanted to listen to that, so he listened to a series about Norse mythology. You and I watched a series about Vikings, which was also depressing, but you know, I got kids books about Norse mythology, and we read those during devotionals. So I like to do that and make it, because it's,

it becomes more interesting to everybody when it's actually about a place you're going to or you have been to. So you can do it after the fact too. But when it's like there's a connection in your brain, your neural network there that's like, I know about this place, right? I know about that. And that still happens with our kids. If they have a frame of reference, they're more interested in things like the Sistine Chapel or the Vatican or this or that because they've been there. And they're like, yeah, I've been there. I know what the...

And even like the Percy Jackson series, when we went to the Louvre in Paris, the Louvre and the Vatican, our kids were like bam bam bam bam, they knew all the stuff. Yeah. But then like if you're in France, you go through something like All the Lights We Cannot See, which there's a couple of sections that are hard to hear in there for younger ones. Or And There Was Light, a true story by Jacques Luceron, who's 16, when he was leading the French resistance as a blind kid.

Like that you read that when you're in you're in in France or a great all the great classics in England from Jane Eyre and Jane Austen Jane all Jane Austen books and Charles Dickens maybe even do some edited ones for some of the younger ones. I mean all those great timepieces when you're you read those you love the story you get into them and then then you're there. Yeah and that is the essence of world schooling.

is making connections in your brain between content or slash curriculum and real world places and times in history, which just comes alive when you get to go and see those places or touch them or experience it firsthand. It just makes it that much more impactful to you as a person. And this includes your youth, even if they don't always demonstrate that.

Rachel Denning (59:06.286)
when they have this concrete connection to a place or a thing, then they're far more interested. It's just a part of how the brain works. It's called the particular activating system, the RAS. Like once you become aware of something, then your brain starts to pay attention and be like, yeah, I know about that. I've heard of that. I've been there. And then you just become more aware. And that to me is the power of world schooling is because it concretizes.

learning about people and places with a real place in the world. Yeah. So then obviously we've led World War II trips through Poland and Germany. And so I would read all the great books like The Choice by Edith Egger. I absolutely read that one. If you're in Germany or Poland, the hiding place. If you're going to be up in

the netherlands and and then go to the hiding place it'll blow your mind and then read the dire van frank and go there and then go see Auschwitz go see some concentration camps now with 11 and 13 you're gonna want to filter it a little bit and temper it so they don't like get crushed by the darkness of humanity but still take them and still talk through it but just don't don't let the full weight of the torturing that was happening in Auschwitz like

just demolish their hope for humanity. But still just walk through it and maybe instead of maybe going in there and having them read the plaque of what actually happened to say, yeah, they would torture people down there because they have no respect for life. And then just move on. But hit those things and then go see the Disney Castle, the Nuschwanzstein. Well, and remember we went to that salt mine that's outside of - it's so cool outside there. It's near Ash. It's -

Hello, Crackow. Crackow, yep. That place is unreal. That on its own was so impactful for our children because it's one thing to talk about something and to give all the numbers about this mine is this big and this deep and this long and they've been on it. And to tell about it, it's a whole nother experience when you take the stairs. I don't even remember how many stairs we went down. It was like 20 minutes.

Rachel Denning (01:01:32.654)
Walking down store down spirals there I was starting to get dizzy because we were going around and around We walked down and then we we were down there for two or three hours and they said that was only like 1 % of the entire mine The miners carved these they literally carved a cathedral in this mine with salt crystal chandeliers and like entire mosaic tire mosaics of

Christ and the disciples and his entire life scene. I mean, it was huge. It was mind blowing. When you have experiences like that, it can never compare to reading about it. That's ultimately what we're talking about. And when you, you put that out there for kids, like, Hey, you want to learn like this, or do you want to learn from the book? You know, a textbook and a workbook to go with it. Yeah.

Or do you want to go stand there in person and see it? And even, you know, even all of our kids were just blown away by the mass, the massiveness of this mine and the sculptures in it. And, and it's awe -inspiring to you to see these were just regular people, regular miners. And because of their devotion and interest, spent time carving things in

to the salt and it's unreal. Like it just blows your mind. So cool. So I don't know. To me, that's the contrast. And ultimately to me, that's what World's Going is about. It's about having the real life experience with real places and real people and real history that brings it to life. And I don't, I ultimately just...

don't think it can compare. It needs to be used with, quote unquote, regular learning because that adds depth to the experience you have. But I found for me and our children and you, we're far more interested in the subject once we've had a real life experience with it ourselves. It just somehow fuels that interest. You're like, wow, that's so fascinating. And it makes you want to learn more about people and places and...

Rachel Denning (01:03:54.446)
events in history when you have seen it firsthand. Okay, hopefully that's helpful. Yes, there's, you obviously know that we would invite you and hope you would go out and have long trips around the world with your kids and expose them to all kinds of things and figure out how to do it. There's ways for every budget, countries for every budget, experiences for every family, and you expand and you grow.

And the last thing we want to do is just stay in one tiny little corner of the earth and stay in our tiny little container and remain small and underdeveloped. It's an absolute travesty and so sad that we remain small when we could expand and grow and see and experience so much. Why would we do that to ourselves or our kids? So let's get out and see this world. You're invited to come to our World School Family Resort. Yes, come here you guys. Please.

Come here. It's a great base to go over to Spain and to see Portugal is incredible. And even to jump across to Morocco. It's just what a place and there's so much to do right here from surfing and paddle boarding and kayaking and mountain biking and hiking and trail running and horseback riding on and on and on. It's amazing here and we are setting it up. Rachel's redoing all the rooms. They're just gorgeous and comfortable. We're.

We've got orchards and farm animals and learning spaces and working spaces. We're putting in a sand volleyball court and a sport court. We're just going to make this whole place a place of learning and inspiration and transformation. So come stay with us. Thanks guys for listening. Love you. Great job, work.

Rachel Denning (01:05:53.518)
you

you