#259 How to Motivate Your Teenager to WILLINGLY Help Out & Take Responsibility

Rachel Denning (00:10.702)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We are your host, Greg and Rachel Denning. Thank you for stopping by and listening. We're getting new listeners and then we have our loyal listeners and love all of you guys. Great for you here. And we are dedicated. We think about this, we talk about it, we live for it. We're dedicated to helping you get the tools and the tactics, the systems and the strategies to live life on your terms.

Not our terms, not anybody else's terms, but life on your terms, the life that you want to live, that you long to live, that you dream about. Your own extraordinary family life. Yeah. Whatever that looks like for you. And obviously there's going to be some differences between each family, what an extraordinary family life looks like, but there's also so many common denominators and we'll use the same tools, the same tactics even to...

pursue parallel dreams is what we'll say. So, you know, ours, ours is specifically, one of them is specifically to travel extensively all over this beautiful world with our family. And you might have a little travel here and there and might love that, but maybe your dream is something else, but we can use the same principles and practices to build our dreams, even though they look different. Well, especially because ultimately that comes down to, at least for us and people listening,

It comes down to creating a certain kind of family culture and a family lifestyle, especially one that's filled with peace and prosperity and love and well adjusted kids and well adjusted family members so that you have not only because where we're different is while they're out, there's lots of people out there talking about pursuing dreams and creating wealth and doing all of these things.

We're specifically talking about it as it relates to family life and the relationships that you have in your life, because in the end, that's what matters most. Like nobody's going to get to the end with their Lamborghini and their expensive homes and feel satisfied if they don't have good relationships. And so that's where the family emphasis comes in is we want you to do all of those things. All the things you want to do, great, do those things, but not at the sacrifice of your family.

Rachel Denning (02:38.766)
And more importantly, I think is with an emphasis on raising great kids because that is ultimately the legacy you're leaving behind. It's the kind of children and the kind of family you create. And not that you, you create your children into being these little, you know, robots or whatever that you design, but you help to mold and direct mentor and guide them into fulfilling their own potential.

That's the most important work you can do and so that's what we want to talk about again today specifically as it relates to chores and family duties Well, yes, but also the whole underlying principle of like getting your kids to be engaged with life to help out to willingly want to participate in

all the family responsibilities. Well, yeah, to be responsible and to take on responsibility. Exactly. So that they're ready and willing to take on even more responsibility when they become adults. But that's actually, we talked about that yesterday with, I mentor a small group of youth and we talked about that yesterday. I'm like, you want freedom? Be more responsible. You want to have a great life? Be more.

responsible, like prepare yourself for more responsibility. Right. And it takes some real strategy and it does not happen by accident. It's not going to happen just because you think it should happen or just because you tell your kids to do it. Yeah, you expect it to happen or you tell your kids it should happen. It does not happen that way. You have to be very strategic in

integrating it into your life and into their learning ultimately. And this isn't like homeschool or public school thing. This is just like life education. It has to be integrated in an intentional way if you want your kids to pick up these skills. And ultimately that's everything your habits of a successful life class is about. But we really want to dive in today with

Rachel Denning (05:02.926)
specifically as it relates to chores, I think, because I think it's maybe a concrete way of getting the picture of what we're talking about. Yeah, but that's way too small. If we only talk about chores, we're missing the bigger picture. Agreed. But we'll start with that and then we'll expand it into the other areas that are also important. And we're also going to specifically talk about teens here, but we don't want those of you without teens to just check out because the exact same principles and practices.

apply to your kids at any age, whether they're toddlers or young adults. And in fact, the way to get them to be helpful and engaged as teens is how you treat them when they are young. So please pay close attention, no matter what age your children are. And then you're going to have grandchildren pay attention to these principles and practices here, because we've got to get this figured out. Now, if dear listener,

you do not care about having a wonderful, happy family life. And you don't care about your kids being engaged and helping and how they turn out as adults. And then this may not be for you. But if you have kids and you care about your relationship with them and how they turn out as human beings, this is your spot. I love that. I'm like, we.

I don't even know how to adequately articulate how much I love our life. And how much I love our kids and our family. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous how awesome, ridiculous in a positive way, how awesome it is and how much I sincerely love it and love all of them. Like they are just so amazing. And for those of you who might be new,

to our audience or maybe haven't met our kids in person yet or us, we're not blinded by our biases and we're just so in love with our own children and can't see anything else. I think they're perfect. We work with people all over the world every day. I worked, specifically worked with youth for

Rachel Denning (07:27.374)
over 25 years, well, and families for that long. So we're not just blinded here, hiding our own little corner and just thinking that our kids are the only ones. We're not like that. We're able to see objectively. And I'm telling you this because when what you do works and it creates the results you want, like,

You gotta share it. We're sharing those and I want you to listen. Like this stuff works. It works like a champ and it removes so much unnecessary struggle and suffering. I think it's actually kind of a little bit ironic because for me...

One, being higher in neuroticism than Greg. If any of you know about Jordan Peterson's personality test, we've taken that. And I have 56 times more neuroticism than Greg. And so I am more neurotic, meaning I focus more on the negative than he does. And because we do kind of live in our own little bubble in a way, I think I sometimes tend to view our family and their little, again, we're not perfect and we're not,

Our children aren't perfect. Sometimes I tend to magnify those imperfections in a way that I feel like Who are we like we've got nothing special here. We've got nothing going on right and then I'll be reminded by you or by someone else or by someone who says something or by some experience where I'm like, Right we somehow we are getting different results here, you're right the results are a little bit different

Not a little bit. That's your, that's your, I was gonna say a little bit different. They're, they're massively different, massively different. And admittedly, you guys early on when we were young parents, we were so unconventional, total nonconformist. And there were times when we questioned like our, our strategies and philosophies, like this is so ab,

Rachel Denning (09:39.566)
Abnormal it's so unconventional. We're not following the crowd at all and We didn't we didn't know many people who were unconventional because again unconventional people people are really chasing greatness are less than 2 % of the population So obviously you're gonna feel pretty alone. And if you're surrounded You're in an ocean of the 98 percenters You're looking around you might not see anybody for a while Who's being unconventional?

Now obviously social media has changed all of that, but when we started there wasn't any of that wasn't happening. And so we're like, is this going to work? Yeah. Well, and especially because, you know, I was blogging, which that was the new thing back then was blogging and people would leave comments like you guys are ruining your kids. They're in 20 years. You're going to look back and be like, Whoa, we messed up. They're totally screwed up now. And there were times when we were like,

Gosh, is that what's gonna happen? Are we gonna be like, well, what did we do here? And we definitely had those moments along the way, but - Where we questioned it. definitely. But now, you're right, we look back and we're like, no, dude, we did things right. Results don't lie. Yeah, exactly. So let's dive in. Yeah, so that's, and we share these things just because, why should you listen to us? Why should you be spending your time here? Well,

This is why we have gotten the results. We are not yet grandparents, but we'll probably be grandparents in a couple of years. But we've gone through the gamut of raising children so far. Our youngest is seven, so we're still in it. It's not like we're done. But our oldest is married now, and life is moving on for our older children. They are adults. Three have launched. And so the bulk of - And we're getting the feedback from them of like,

Yeah, you guys did things right. And when I think when your own children tell you that and you have really, really great relationships with them, like great relationships, that's credibility in my mind. For me, I'm like, okay, yeah, I did something right. And like we mentioned a reference earlier, it's not in isolation, you guys. It's when you get out and really start experiencing things.

Rachel Denning (11:56.334)
and your kids get out and really start experiencing things. And then you hear from people your kids are working for or working with or interacting with and they're telling you, wow, your kids are different. Like they do things differently. They think differently. They're very mature. They're very capable. When you get that kind of response, then you're like, okay, yeah, something we're doing is working here. Let's share it. And it's not obviously,

Ladies and gentlemen, we don't, none of us, you listening and we here, we don't do things for the opinions of others. I wholeheartedly believe in living independent of the opinions of others. I really do. But we do do things to get the results that we care about. And then results don't lie. Results, like they're noticeable and that's how...

It's almost like a confirmation, so to speak. Positively or negatively, the results are not so good. Right, exactly. So you see some people who may have the results you do not want. And they're remarkable in a negative way. They've used a quote unquote formula to get those results. And we're here saying, hey, here's the formula to get the positive results you do want. So let's dive in. In my Family Charts and Systems course, because I have a...

teaching about how to do charts and systems with your family because that was one thing that made a huge difference in our life. Like before charts and systems, I felt like I was a mom without a personality. I was just a human being that met needs for everybody else and none of my own. And I felt, you know, disordered and chaotic. And then after charts, everything changed. Like that was a major transformation for our life.

and for me, but in this course, wait, hold on, let me, let me emphasize that many of us are operating at a level of, disorder where our lives aren't ordered enough. They aren't organized enough and we're, we're hoping things work out and we even might feel like we're organized. Like you might think to your, well, I'm a, I'm a very organized, I'm a very organized person and I like order. But I think,

Rachel Denning (14:22.35)
The vast majority of families aren't ordered enough, aren't organized enough. There's, there's an entirely higher level of organization and order and what systemization that really facilitates easy progress. And I see easy. I mean, there's, there's a lot of work, but once it's in place and it's operating, you're like, dang, this works so well. It's.

easier to lead the family now once we get on the other side of all of that ordering and organization and systemization. And to be clear, because I've recently had some comments on my Facebook page, this is this does not mean that we're teaching complete order and organization. The counter is always clean and the children are always neat and tidy. And like, that's not what we're talking about here, because

If you came to our house, our house looks normal. It looks lived in. It looks like a family exists there. But we're talking about the kind of, it's almost an underlying order, an unseen order, a mental, emotional order more than physical order. Not that physical order is not important. It is, but throughout the day, there's going to be a lot of disorder that occurs. It's the ability to put it back into an order that helps you to function. Exactly.

And it's an ability to maintain throughout all of the chaos that occurs in family life, a mental and emotional order. Yep. Yeah. You make such a great point. We've seen so many families and in fact, I was one of them early on, especially when you have toddlers, you're just like, my goodness. They are such mess makers. Why do we even try to clean up? Like, this is ridiculous. And I see lots of families that just throw in the towel. And carry that on into the kitchen. Yeah. Cause I'm like, I'm...

And again, you've heard it, you know, like cleaning up after children while they're growing is like shoveling the walk while it's still snowing. That's true. But if we mentally and emotionally, like you're talking about, we just kind of, and physically just check out and be like, why clean up? Cause they're just going to make a mess. That becomes the way of being. And it carries on for years and then decades and becomes part of the family culture, which then is a problem. You can't acquiesce into the chaos.

Rachel Denning (16:46.222)
even though you know it's still going to be chaotic and messy, you still have to keep cleaning up. Like this is crazy talk. You're like, why would I clean if there's gonna make a mess? Because if you don't, it's going to turn your head into a mess. And your heart into a mess and your family culture and your family legacy into a mess. So knowing fully knowing that it's going to be chaotic and messy, you still have to bring order and cleanliness.

If you try to go too far to the other side and say, we're always going to have a clean house, then you're not going to allow your kids to be kids. Right. And that's, that's really unhealthy. And then if you go, like I was just mentioning, if you go too far to the other side and say, fine, it's just going to be a mess. We're just going to live in a sty like pigs. That's too far. And that's unhealthy. Well, and that's why I love the yin and yang back to that again. Like I love to use that symbolism because if you think about it as a circle on the ground,

and you've got the white and the black, well there's always a little bit of black and the white, and there's always a little bit of white and the black, but the perfect balance is like having a foot in both. You've got a foot in order and you've got a foot in chaos, and that's good. Or even walking in circles. You go to the white and you come back to the black, and you go to the white and you come back to the black, and you're moving back and forth and people are like, you're inconsistent. You're not one or the other, you wish you were else. You're like, no, actually I'm very balanced. Yeah. And sometimes I'm standing in the white and sometimes I'm standing in the back.

in the black and you're going back and forth. Because that's family life. That's life. Especially family life. Yeah, that is family life right there. Yeah. So when you do a big cleanup party and everything looks clean and great, you move way to the white side. And then you're like, family party, pillow fight and blah, or dinner. All you have to do is have dinner. You have dinner and it's like, yeah, there's a mess. And then you do a good cleanup and now you're like, it's clean. But

It won't be clean for long. Well, this is fun because it actually brings us to the topic in a way because because I'm going it's been on my mind because I'm going to specifically talk about teenagers and getting them to be actively involved because at this moment in our life and the family stage we're in, our 13 year old son has primarily taken over the responsibility of keeping the kitchen and living area clean. He's taken that over for the past couple of weeks. He's doing such.

Rachel Denning (19:05.55)
Great job great job at it now ironic. I'll throw this in here as a disclaimer I think this is the dad side of me talking He has leaned into some domestic help so he doesn't have to come out and do the hard manual labor I want him to do Which is totally normal if when you're like Yeah, if I can avoid the heat and the sweat and the blisters by helping mom I'm all

over it. But at the same time, I'm totally appreciative of it because if you guys have listened to our other episodes, we're in the middle of, we've just bought our our resort here in Portugal and it's our home base. It's also a world schooling center for families and so there's places to stay, there's rooms, there's communal kitchens and communal spaces and so I have been busy working on that project and so

I'm very grateful to have this help, especially because right now we only have four kids at home. Our oldest daughter has been out helping you more outside and doing more of the outside projects. And he's been inside keeping order in our main living area, which to me is very important. Like it's very necessary. So, well, there's, there's something interesting there with the dynamic of, the, okay. So now we have two that have moved into their twenties. So they're no longer teens.

So we have three teens right now with those that are at home. Yeah, it's, it's been our daughter who's been out training our big old massive slobbery dogs that we're training in protection and she adores it. And she's been out doing the hard dirty work with me. It's been fantastic. And then he has leaned into helping you. And I only point that out to realize like,

We don't have to slip into traditional thoughts or roles around boys and girls, but then it'll switch back to exactly. She also does a lot of meal preparation and she is, she is just a woman and just as beautiful and sweet and tender, but man, that girl can be tough as nails and so can he as well. And so you're going to watch them again. Gosh, that.

Rachel Denning (21:30.702)
The yin and yang is so important here. You're going to watch them go from white to black, black to white, and keep switching. And it's okay. And you're facilitating and fostering and cultivating the masculine and the feminine in all of them. Yes. Yeah. So anyway, so back to the comment. One of the things he's been saying to me recently, which I think is so funny because it's definitely the way I have felt for many years because...

He'll get everything all cleaned up and then we come in and we have lunch or we have dinner and then it's a disaster again and even if we kind of clean up after ourselves, which we try to do, there's still plenty of things that, there's still plenty of messes that occur. And so he'll be like, I just cleaned up after you guys. I gotta do it again, right? that's so awesome. Okay, that personal experience right there is gonna help him understand your frustrations as a mom. absolutely. But man, he's gonna understand, he's gonna be a better husband.

Because he's like, yeah, babe, I know exactly what you're talking about. Exactly right. I just barely took up this one. When I was in charge of the kitchen. So it's a really great skill. And so, so with that, laying that out there, what's occurring, I want to talk about, well, what are the specific strategies that have allowed us, helped us to be able to get our children to do these things? Like, what is it that...

At this point, he literally from, he gets up in the morning, he does his morning routine, which we can talk about strategies of how I get him to do a morning routine, but he willingly of his own does a morning routine. And then basically from then until bedtime, he is working for me. Literally working on all the projects I want done, including what we mentioned, keeping the house clean, keeping.

you know, cleaning up everything. And, and so that we're clear here, cause people are like, what, what about school? What about education? Yeah. There are educational things happening right now, but we're on a little bit of a pause. We're taking our own summer break. Exactly. So many people take, you know, they have, you have winter break from school or you have summer break from school. We do school stuff and educational stuff year round all the time. There's never a graduation from education in our family. We will take.

Rachel Denning (23:57.55)
specific pauses when we're focused on other things. Maybe a really intensive travel or right now we're learning insane amounts of everything trying to get an entire resort ready inside and out and he's participating in that. So there's a different form of education right now. Including animals because we also have two pigs, three geese, four ducks, seven chickens, three lambs and two goats. Everybody's learning about.

So we're learning a lot about that. Well, and we've had a few animals die already, which is natural path when you have more and more animals, they die. And what a difficult but important lesson for animals to die. Well, and to reproduce because our little ones are like, just this morning, Sanji is seven. She looks out the window. She's like,

Whoa, look, that's so cool. There's two birds, one on top of the other. That's amazing. Why is the one bird on the other bird? Right, exactly. So anyway, so there's other educational things going on. So he is basically doing work from when he gets up until bedtime. So we're going to talk about that. Why and how in conjunction with a question that I received in my Family Charts and Systems course, coming back to that.

Somebody asked, I have a 17 year old, but this applies to 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, whatever. It applies to all the ages who's not motivated. Like I've made a chart. They're not motivated to do it. How do I get it done? How do I get them to be motivated? And so we want to talk through all of those very specific things. How do I get my children to be motivated and to willingly...

Do chores and take on responsibility.

Rachel Denning (25:54.638)
And so to clarify here, obviously you guys, you guys are obviously thinking through the numbers here. We're going to talk about our 13 year old son right now, because he's in the stage that where a lot of youth and a lot of parents struggle. But he is our fourth child. And he's our fourth 13 year old.

Although is he our fourth? Is he our fifth? He's our fifth child. Okay, when you have that many kids, you're like, which number is he? He's our fifth. There are four siblings above him. And all four of them are absolute rock stars. When it comes to helping carry the load in the family and do hard things willingly with a good attitude. They are absolute champs. yes, absolutely. But all of them went through the phase where...

they didn't want to do that. And that's why we're talking about the 13 year old phase because that is the phase he's in. Despite everything I've described, his natural inclination is to do nothing. He would prefer to sit around and do nothing or to play video games or to watch movies. We're not describing some prodigy person or child without the strategies and.

the family culture and all of the things we're talking about in place, he would be a normal kid. And to even describe it as normal is sad to me because I guess it's a, I would say.

80, I would say 80 % of people, if allowed to do whatever they just wanted, would do little to nothing. There's just part of maybe it's the 80 -20 rule, there's just part of humanity. It's like, you know, if given the chance, they would do nothing. I will do the least amount possible. And maybe some of you listening are like, yeah, I'm in that same group. Give me a chance to do nothing. I'm gonna sit down and like do nothing.

Rachel Denning (27:59.886)
Like we want to avoid exertion, we want to avoid effort and discomfort and inconvenience. It's just, there's this part of us is like, I'll do nothing. And I think it's definitely a part of that coming of age process, especially for boys, especially for boys. And if not directed in the right way, that's when they develop these habits that take them down this path of do nothingness into adulthood. Late teens, early twenties, and now the thirties.

And you still, so this is relevant. Cause some of you listening have young adult children who are still acting like 13 year old boys. And that's exactly why they were never led out of a temporary stage. Right. Of what's the stage? It's like inertia. Like they're just stuck in, I would like to do what's easy and comfortable. You're just like in a spotlight. Wait, why, why would I do something that's

takes effort when I can do something that doesn't. Right. So I think I'm going to simply describe the process that has occurred. And this is a similar process that we, I would say we have used with at least, if not all of our older children, at least half of them, we have used a similar process because like we said, you know, our kids are not abnormal in that they don't have the normal human tendencies and that they wouldn't be normal.

quote unquote, normal children doing normal things, if it hadn't been for specific intervention. When we like to use the word intervention, because that's truly how we believe, we believe, that's what we believe it is. It's intervening into a course, a path that could lead in a direction that they don't want to go and we don't want them to go. Well, let's point it out. It is intervention because every human being in the human experience, you're either left.

to a strategic action or default. You're either being proactive and active or passive and reactive. So the default setting for every human being is mediocrity at best and often much worse than mediocrity. It's just absolute disaster. It's a dumpster fire and misery. If you do nothing,

Rachel Denning (30:23.822)
you get the default setting. You literally have to do nothing. If you just procreate, have a child, and just hope it works out and just roll along, you're going to get the default setting. But this is true everywhere in life and nature. If you want a garden and you go out and you just, you mark off a rectangle in your yard and say, this is my garden. And then you walk away and do nothing. Well, even if you threw some seeds on the ground or planted some seeds. Yeah.

You're like, yeah, so you throw out some seeds or whatever and you're like, Hey, there's my garden and you walk away and leave it. It is not going to be an awesome garden. It's not going to produce what you want to produce. Even if you planted because the weeds will overtake it and the, what you plant will die. It's not going to thrive. Nothing's going to happen. So if you leave it to default and be like, yeah, I, that's, that's a perfect metaphor. You know, I put seeds in the ground. I cleared out and put seeds in the ground. It's like, yeah, we procreated. We have a kid and hope this all works out. We're parents now. Yay. And then it's all going to work.

No, your kid's going to end up like your garden. Like it's just an absolute disaster for weeds. But the same is true with your body. If you have a body and you're like, okay, I have a body. I'm an adult now. I'm just going to let my body do what it does. my gosh. Before long, you won't even be shaped like a human body. You're going to look like a pear or something. It's just... Not to mention aches and pains and all the other issues. And the suffering, like your body's going to go mess.

So it's the atrophy, the default setting is like, if I don't exercise, then what's the default? Atrophy. Yeah. So we call it intervention because we are intervening into the default course with intentional action that produces better than good results. That's the plan, right? That's the hope. And it's worked so far, as we've talked about already. So here's essentially what has happened. And...

This again is the, this is the normal course for things. So we aren't like completely anti -technology people. In fact, we use technology all the time, Greg and I, because it's provided us a location independent income, which gives us the ability to travel. So we, you know, we're on social media, we're on devices every day, using them for work. And we, our children use them for education because there's so many resources online for education, so much curriculum that's available.

Rachel Denning (32:50.478)
Specifically during last year we did a it ended up being like a 19 country trip we backpacked much of it and For each of my children before that they were sharing devices, but for this trip specifically I bought each of them and I think an iPad or some Laptop so that they each had their own device to do studies while we backpacked through Europe Well that always has its pros and cons

One of the cons for this son was that he...

figured out, well, the other challenge too, and this is always a journey, side note, is that education can also include games, but I think that's a very delicate line there. I'm leaning more towards the education should not include gaming type of thing, but we've experimented with it. And some of my children have.

more of what I call an addictive personality where they are just drawn to those games and they want those games. And so he's had this relationship with games, educational games specifically, that has led him into wanting to play more and more and more games. So during this time of travel, there were a few different instances where we caught him playing games or sneaking games that he shouldn't have been, either by hacking passwords or different things like that, which led to...

So far as we know, and again, we're just going to share what has worked for us and you guys, you know, everyone's got to choose their own path. We're sharing what works and what doesn't. And we've seen it. And it's not just in isolation for our families with our coaching clients and others. And reading plenty of books on the subject. Right. Exactly. Educating yourself. A little side note here, too many of us as parents and just as people, we make decisions that are absolutely based on ignorance.

Rachel Denning (34:42.862)
Like we don't educate ourselves first and then make decisions. So we really try to educate ourselves before we make big decisions. But it's important to point out, I think, that as far as we know, he didn't get on inappropriate games where they're bad. The more we've said it, the more I've worked with youth. We've just taken a stronger, stronger stance against just

gaming in general. And if, what's that book? Glow Kids. Glow Kids. Well, we've read several books, but the recent one is Glow Kids. Please read it. And don't just, don't be like so many parents are like, what? There's nothing wrong with gaming. There's nothing wrong with being on screens. It's the future. Or kind of defeat us. Like, well, it's just, it's here. There's nothing to do about it. They're all going to be on. So might as well just embrace it and let it happen.

Again, that's the default setting. Yes, technology is a wonderful tool, but don't just throw in the towel and say, well, there's nothing we can do about it. We'll just see what happens. Like that's being totally reactive and passive. Right. And the principle behind this whole thing is we've continually taught our children that technology is a tool, not a toy. And when we've given them technology to use, specifically devices, it's with the intention of it's a tool, not a toy. So when they use it, very, very clear.

We've always been very clear. So there's clear expectations and standards. When they use it as a toy, especially if they sneak it to play games and entertain themselves, that is a violation of the principle. The principle is the tool to improve yourself, not a toy to entertain yourself. Not that entertainment is a bad thing in itself, but that too much entertainment is. Too much entertainment is what leads people down this path of least resistance.

So you have to be strategic. And ultimate destruction. So let that sink in, you guys. Again, we're sharing what has worked. And this is one of our absolute core philosophies. And I don't think anyone would ever accuse our family of not having fun and not being fun. We love life and we play hard, but we're not constantly seeking entertainment. We don't...

Rachel Denning (37:06.798)
we're not just entertaining ourselves to death. Well, there's a whole lot of science in there as far as dopamine levels and dopamine baselines and like we could geek out about that, but that's a whole nother thing. But so essentially that's the principle. So when our children violate the principle of this is a tool, not a toy. And when soon as you start using it as a toy for entertainment, that's when you lose access to this privilege because ultimately it's also a privilege, not a right. And so that happened with this son. He lost.

the privilege of using the device and then he can earn it back over time. Anyways, this happened multiple times, which is normal. It's all, this is also a process we've gone through with, with almost all of our kids. Yeah. I think we have one that never has really abused it. Right. But I guess that's, we're illustrating that this is a normal process of helping children and teenagers as they mature to learn how to appropriately use devices so that they then make their own good choices about them. Right.

So that happened. That's the underlying framework. I want you to understand that first of all, there's principles in place and understanding of technology and its use. There's also an understanding that there are privileges that are not just rights. You don't just have this right to have an access to unlimited technology use and to unlimited internet use. That is not a right, right? And that's.

That's a privilege that you get to earn. That's worth emphasizing so hard there. Again, some of you might be like, no, it's like, whatever, kids get access to it. I want my kids to be able to have whatever they want and do whatever they want whenever, because I want freedom and we're just going to provide for them. That's my job as a parent, just provide for them. Again, sharing things that just work and have worked wonderfully for us. If you want an extraordinary family life, do not just hand over everything to your kids free and.

Available like no way that that in no way shape or form is true to life, right? Everything in life is earned and so beyond being a child Like when they're just little little they can't do anything beyond that Everybody earns well, and they need to begin earning those things incrementally and this is one of the great ways to teach them by something like device access

Rachel Denning (39:27.502)
When they learn that there are certain privileges in life they have to earn through appropriate behavior or through appropriate choices, that's beginning the process of learning how to operate in the world and how to make good choices and how to be responsible and how to be accountable to people. And I think that's true with everything. Now, we're not like super hardcore about this, but I start teaching it early on where even food, I'm like, food isn't a free ride here.

Like there's no place where it just the world just operates where food is just available for the taking except there are some places like that and that that starts ruining societies. Well, I'm laughing here because this was this was one of the things that the Ruby Frank thing that went on where she would like deny her kids food or whatever. We're not talking about that. Okay, so then then you take a principle that could be so powerful and it gets all twisted and weird and then you're like, are you guys nut jobs and and

depriving your kids of food. I'm like, no, our kids will out eat anybody. And they do under the sun, but it's teaching the principle that your food isn't free. Right. And at the very least, what you need to do is wash your dish or put it in the dishwasher or the very routine. The very youngest are, yeah, we're like, Hey, you got to help clean up and do that. But then as you get older, you're like, no, you're helping in food preparation. Yeah. And then you're helping in cleanup.

and I'll buy the food and I'll provide it for you, but why don't you take care of mowing the yard and doing the laundry? Because we're going to do that. So you're contributing to the family economy and the family system that is also helping to earn your food. Right. And so you're pulling your own weight, so to speak, is what we say in English. You're earning your own key.

And that even you guys, man, I see this in so many families and we've experienced ours too. Our kids are just kids where, you know, you, you pull up, they don't want to go to the grocery store and help go shopping because they're so boring. I'm like, yeah, it is boring. Guess what? I don't want to go to the grocery store either. I hate, hate, I abhor going to the store. I hate it, but I want to eat. And if I want to eat, I got to shop. I get, I get some food and we don't have.

Rachel Denning (41:52.27)
delivery here because we live in a remote area. Otherwise, those of you are like, wait, just do delivery. It's not available yet. We're gonna hire a personal assistant to just do grocery delivery. But anyways, you got to go to the store and the kids are like, it's boring. Yeah. Do you want to eat? Because if I go and you don't want to help me, I'll just buy stuff. You can go hungry. They don't want to help. Well, that's the first thing. So then you get back and you're like, hey, come on. I don't want.

I want to just sit here and do my thing. I'm like, that's fine. I don't want to feed you tomorrow then or no dinner for you tonight. Okay, I'll help like exactly But but I see this so many times and so many families mom and dad do everything They pay for the food. They go shopping. They come home. They put all the food away They prepare all the meals and then they clean up afterwards and all the kid has to do is show up Eat some food

and then go back to whatever they want to do. That is the most messed up family culture I can think of. And I'm not trying to make you feel bad. that's not the most messed up. That's right. But that leading to a very messed up thing because it's teaching these horrible, horrible principles and practices. And again, I've been working with kids very closely for over two decades and I can tell immediately when they come on trips, whatever I'm like, this is the most entitled,

brat that I mean I love them. I totally love them. I love you. But you are an entitled little brat and you've not been required to carry your own weight and you somehow think things should be done for you. Like that is the most messed up mindset and mentality. Well it's it's not empowering them for a life of responsibility. Ultimately it's disempowering. You are disempowering your children when you have that kind of culture.

And so at the very least, I mean, based on what we're talking about today, how do you help your teens do chores? You can't just provide everything for them without at the very least explanations and expectations. They need to have it explained to them of how the world works and how you expect your family culture to work. I expect you to help out because I can't do everything myself nor should I. And this is how it works in the real world. You have to earn your keep. You have to earn.

Rachel Denning (44:22.958)
your room and board. And that idea empowers them to be more competent and more capable. And obviously it's an uncomfortable idea. Yeah. But I don't think anybody likes, let's say for example. Unless you're like sadistic in a way. Like enjoy torturing your children and making them uncomfortable. But like a perfect example is like if I, if I, you know, don't feel like it this month and I just want to just sit around and

binge watch Netflix and just do what I want. And I just want to, I just want to take it easy. And then I'm like, well, shoot, I don't have any money. So I can't pay my utility bills or the internet. And so I call the utility company and be like, Hey, you guys mind like just keeping the power on and stuff? Cause I just didn't, I didn't feel like working this month. You know, I was just doing other stuff like nowhere, nowhere in the world is utility company. Like, you didn't feel like it or you won't feel well.

Yeah, no problem. That's okay. We'll give you a free month. We'll cover it for you. Yeah, we got this. We will keep providing utilities for you just because we understand that you didn't feel like it. Yeah. Or that it was hard for you to work. Yeah, it was tough. You had a tough month. No problem. Don't pay your bill. Go find a cell phone company or any company that'll do that. It seems like a silly example. And yeah, I feel like there are many parents taking that same approach where their kids don't feel like it or they're having a hard time or this or that or the other.

And I get that. We're not talking about being uncaring, unempathetic parents because we're not and we don't believe in that. But you can be caring and empathetic and still hold a standard and say, sorry, you still have to help out because I don't feel like working every day and I still do so that I can pay the bills. Again, not to be misunderstood. If our kids are sick, we're like stay in bed, rest, recovery, whatever. But if they're just, you can just tell they're being lazy. I'm like, sorry, man.

That, it doesn't fly. There's days I get up and I don't feel like doing what I need to do, but that's irrelevant. If it has to be done, I do it. Right. So anyways, that is the underlying framework. Hopefully you're getting this picture because I'm stacking on top of it. Then of course there's the device usage. There was the misuse of device usage, which resulted in a device fast for this kit. So all of this, I'm telling you these things because all of these,

Rachel Denning (46:50.286)
play into helping a child to be motivated to do chores. And also with the understanding that that motivation is going to change depending on different circumstances, right? And so that's part of the challenge of being a parent is you have to learn how to adjust the motivation according to what's happening in their personal life. I'm kind of chuckling right now because I can imagine some of the listeners going like,

And I was really hoping this episode was just like a simple three step process to get to get my kids involved. It's more complicated than that. It's so complicated. But if you want to have phenomenal kids, you don't want to resolve. You got to do the work. Okay. So leading up to where we are today, he was on a device fast, but then we took on this big project, but this would apply whether you have a big project or not. And,

Because he's on a device fast, which also included no audio books, this is important. You've got to understand. And in my family charts and systems, of course, I call this privileged based accountability.

So you're going off privileges, which we just talked about. Privileges are a lot of things, sometimes including food, but definitely including device usage, definitely including audio books or video games or fill in the blank of whatever your kid's privilege is, because there's lots of them. And honestly, starting around 12 years old, everything, everything is a privilege. Yeah, you definitely start working into that. But I would say even with...

You know, I've started it with our 10 year old and sometimes our seven, like there's, there's always things there. Exactly. You start, you start at four or five. It requires wisdom for you to decide when, you know what, this kid, this is starting to become a privilege for them. Not just a need or a responsibility. And you have to be careful about that. And it does require wisdom, but you can start to see that as they develop and grow, you know, like my 10 year old now, she's, or my seven year old, will you please get me a drink of water? As they're sitting on the couch, I'm like,

Rachel Denning (49:03.054)
No, you can do that. I will do for you the things you can't do for yourself, but you are completely capable of getting your own drink of water. And so I will consistently tell my kids things like that. Can you do this for me? And then there's a time when you just do it out of kindness, but there's some days where I'm like, no, right now I'm doing this. If you want to load the dishwasher, then I'll get you a drink of water. Right? Too many parents do too much trying to be kind, trying to, they think I want to be a good parent so they keep doing too much. But you can still be kind.

by nicely saying, hey, I'm loading the dishwasher right now. You can get your own drink of water. Or you can do that because I'm doing this that you can't. And as they get older, they, what you just said was just such a fundamental framework. Your children should do everything that they're capable of doing. So as soon as they are able and their ableness really comes down to your training, they should be doing their own laundry.

and they should be taking care of anything that they can take care of. Exactly. And so you're still a good parent. In fact, in my estimation, it makes us better parents when we have our kids do things that they are capable of doing on their own. Well, I think in many ways that is the definition of good parenting is you, over time, you do less and less and less for your children. And if you think about it on a lifetime, yeah, that's how it works.

You do everything for them when they're young, but then as you get really, really old, they do everything for you, right? It switches. You switch roles, but you have to make them competent enough that they're capable of taking care of other people besides themselves. And that's how by allowing them to do more and more things themselves. Kids, I'll point this out. Our children, our older children, especially are extremely competent. They can travel all over this globe by themselves and handle problems and difficulties and.

and unexpected situations. Even getting stuck missing flights in foreign countries. Yeah, I mean they are champs literally because we have deliberately prepared them to do this. We've insisted that they take care of themselves as they are able. And as they started young and just grew and grew and grew and grew until now as late teens and early 20s, they are so capable and so competent because we as their parents led them to that. Yes.

Rachel Denning (51:25.678)
by not doing things for them. And here's the point. Here is how you motivate them to want to do that because I know you're thinking, well, yeah, I want them to do that, but how do I get them to do that? It's privilege based accountability. When they have all of the privileges they want for free and they don't have to work for them, then they have no motivation to do the work. Exactly. Why? The privileges are how they get motivated to do the work.

So that's why there needs to be a system in place where they don't have automatic non -stop access to the privileges because then they actually gain some motivation to do the work. And that brings me back to the story here with my son. He was on a device fast and we were planning to do the device fast for a long time, but because I'm here working on a project or whatever, just because I wanted to.

I said, I will allow you to listen to your audio book if you work for me. He gets one privilege in exchange for work.

And that works all day long. From the moment he gets up practically until he goes to bed, he will work nonstop because he gets to listen to an audio book. That's now that's how motivated he is by that thing. You pick your own privilege. Well, and try to, okay, the reason our kids love books is because we read to them and we got them to fall in love with learning and stories and books.

So we want him to read books whenever like he could go in and read a physical book if he wants and he does he loves reading and and we want our kids Okay, this is an important strategy. We want our kids to love things that are good for them. We want them to love Sports and activities that are good for them or edifying their uplift and we want them to love things That are good for us. And so then you're in this perfect

Rachel Denning (53:27.374)
Perfect situation and scenario where your kids are begging you for the ability the privilege to do something that you want them to do like listen the books it's awesome if If you don't foster that and they're just like they just want to play fortnight till three o 'clock in the morning If you do your chores, and I'll let you play fortnight no way

I mean it would work, but it's not the ideal. Well not even an ideal, it would never happen in our family, ever. It would never ever happen. I'm saying for other families. But don't... You could start, I guess I'm gonna say don't discount that right away if that's where you're at. Start with that. I have a different approach. Because, I know, but you can transition to these other things and listen to Glow Kids because it talks about how to literally detox your kids from...

because it's a real thing. It is so real. Being addicted to video games and devices, it's a real thing and it talks you through a detox program. But it's a place to start if you're trying to motivate kids. But yeah, that would never happen in our family. I'll just throw down here. You guys figure out where you are and what you're doing. But like for us, and I feel so adamantly strong about this and I can back it up with literally thousands of youth that I've worked with. We have never.

allowed any gaming consoles in our home. We just there's just no place for gaming. There's I've never met a gamer and and this is gonna sound harsh but I want you to chew on it. I have never in five continents, 60 plus countries, thousands and thousands and thousands of people in real interaction, deep coaching, I've never met a gamer, youth or adult who I thought

wow, I want to be like that. Or, wow, I hope one of my children marries this person. It's never been the case because there's something there that spills over. It's literally an addiction. It is. And it spills over to other areas of your life and it just tanks real growth and real achievement and real well -rounded

Rachel Denning (55:48.238)
highly developed. But grit is just one element. Like if you want to be a superb human being, I've never, never met anyone that I just admire and look up to. None of my heroes are watching or giving into addiction. Yeah. In any way, shape or form. They're not, they're not gaming. Most of them don't even own televisions and, and they're just, they're not into that kind of entertainment. And this is not to discount because we also truly believe that

Thoreau said, every human being is my superior in some way. This doesn't mean they're not good people. This doesn't mean that they're not, you know, a good human being. It has nothing to do that with that. But there is an element of addiction that while I understand it's a very complicated subject, that it weakens character. Especially if you give in to the addiction and essentially gaming, this is true of porn, this is true of...

alcohol, whatever the drug is, whatever the addiction is, it's the same principle in effect that your full strength of character is not at force. Your full potential is not being reached. And that's ultimately what you're talking about. That's what we're trying to avoid in ourselves and prevent in our children, avoid and prevent in both of us. That's the point. That's the goal. Because that is where true strength lies.

I was gonna say something else though, but now I forgot. Sorry, babe. But I do wanna give a couple more specifics about how we do this, because I know parents are gonna be having questions like, what if you just turn the audio book on, they're gonna be lost and gone, you'll never see them, or, you know, because I know that happens. Like, it's not like this kid has razor focus and so he's there, checking in with me, making sure he's not off task, you know. That happens, that's normal.

And so the strategy I use... Especially if they get into a fantasy book that they love. Well, and that's what he's listening to. He's listening to the books he loves. They disappear into another realm. And he does. And I know that, but that's the point. I know that, so I work with that instead of against it. I know that he's getting lost in it, but I also know that it's that thing that's motivating to him right now. And so I'm using it to my advantage. No trash books, by the way. Not in a manipulative way.

Rachel Denning (58:08.942)
It's with an understanding, he clearly understands this is a privilege and I explained it to him. I am allowing you to use this privilege right now, to have access to this privilege so that you will work for me while we are working on this project that's big and important to us. Now the very specific way I do it is one, he does not have passwords to the devices. I have the passwords. Then I don't know about Android but we use...

and on Apple, you can set downtime with Screen Time Password. So I turn on downtime, basically he has downtime except for one minute a day. By chance one time he got on and it was that one minute when downtime was off and he was like, everything's on and then it went away after a minute. You can set downtime for the whole day and during downtime you have to use the Screen Time Password to access any and all apps. He doesn't know the Screen Time Password.

So for audible, which is what we use for audiobooks, he has to, and this is why I talk about motivated and willing. I don't have to ask him. He's literally begging me all day long for jobs to do. That's why the system works so amazing. He comes to me as soon as he's done and he's learned because I taught him. He used to come to me right away and then I'm like, did you do your morning routine? Have you brushed your teeth? Have you?

Fixed your hair, I can tell you haven't. Have you made your bed? Have you spent some time praying or whatever? Have you done these things first? And he's like, no, I haven't. We'll go back. Because you don't get access to the privileges until you've done those things. And we've been teaching about morning routines his entire life. He knows, like we all have morning routines. So he does this morning routine and then he's coming to me begging, what can I do? What jobs?

I'll load the dishwasher. I'll do this. I'll do that. I'll make breakfast for the girls. I'll do like, he's literally coming up with things he can do willingly. And so I say, okay, yeah, do that. Load the dishwasher and make breakfast for the girls. And then I do this Green Time Passcode for 15 minutes. That's it. 15 minutes. When that 15 minutes is up, he has to come back. He has to come back and check in with me. That's why I call it privilege based accountability.

Rachel Denning (01:00:31.086)
He's got a report. I don't have to worry about checking up on him. I don't have to worry about following him around and making sure he did what he said he's going to do because as soon as that 15 minutes is up, he comes back to me. He will search far and wide. He goes. I mean, we are 15 acres here and this giant property and this giant house and he will literally climb all the stairs and go everywhere looking for me. Good exercise. Yeah. Good searching skills. He's not sitting around on the couch being lazy. He's

up and down and everywhere looking for me and comes to me and then I say, did you do the things I told you to do last time? And he'll check in and he'll tell me, yes, I did it or no, I'm almost done or I forgot sometimes. You're like, okay, we'll go back. And sometimes I'll say, we'll go back and do it. You don't get more time until you finish that. Right. Which is absolutely genius because ultimately the ideal is that it is each person's responsibility to do good work.

and report back about the work done. Our societies, our families, it's all messed up. We have managers in the workplace that are hovering and micromanaging and checking in and making sure people did what they do. And I'm gone. I'm working on my own projects. I'm not even there to check to see if he's doing what he's supposed to do. So then he comes to me and then I say, okay, what are you going to do now? Or he'll ask me, what do you want me to do now? And so then we...

come up with the next job he's going to do and I give him another 15 minutes. I do that 15 minutes at a time all day long. That's extremely interrupting to you. It is absolutely. And yet, a lot of people will be like, I'm no way I'm going to do that. That's it's bothering me. It's interrupting me. It's simply by being bothered by it. They wouldn't do it. And there's definitely times when, you know, I'm tempted to feel that way, but then I'm reminded of like, wait a second.

He's literally asking me for jobs to do. He's literally asking me for work. You have a 13 year old son who's eagerly looking for work and looking for you to report on the work you've done. And all it cost me is a couple of minutes of a screen time passcode and an audio book. Yep, and being interrupted four times per hour. Right. And so yes, it is convenient for you. And yes, it could be quote bothersome, but...

Rachel Denning (01:02:55.278)
That's the point. A little bit of discomfort now, a little bit of interruption now is ounces of weight compared to the tons, literal tons of weight it would be if this kid went down a terrible path. And a path of destruction, which many, many youth go down.

they get into drugs or alcohol or porn or being addicted. Well, because one of the things I was going to talk about is that there is in the book, look kids, it talks about it and you were aware of this firsthand way before we even read this book, that there's a direct connection between all addictive things, all things that are addictive have a connection because essentially in the brain addiction is the same. It doesn't matter what you're addicted to.

it looks the same in the brain. So if it's alcohol or drugs or porn or video games, it's the same. And so you have personally seen a lot of connection between addictions to video games and addiction to porn. Especially in young men. What I saw among Christian boys, and I only mention Christian because these are good families who are trying to do the right thing. They're trying to be good families. It wasn't families where it's like do whatever, nothing happens. These are families who are trying to be good, principled, high -value families.

So they were monitoring what their kids were playing and how they're doing. They weren't doing the terrible games. And so again and again and again, I saw this over years. Even Minecraft is what they were doing. Well, that's what I found. I found a direct connection between Minecraft first as a little boy and then porn as a young man. It was just one, it was just a jump and the jump was just adolescence. It was just puberty. They would play Minecraft and get addicted. So they created the hard wiring for addiction in their head. And as soon as they hit puberty, they switched to porn.

And I just saw that again and again and again. Because of the wiring in the brain, because of the addiction wiring is essentially the same. And so the medium changes and that's it. So the point is, yeah, there's interruption, there's annoyance, there's potential irritation. Hashtag worth it. Worth it. And the reason we say it's worth it, because I know that you might be thinking in your head, well, if he's motivated just because of the audiobook, that doesn't carry over to...

Rachel Denning (01:05:17.134)
being motivated for the sake of doing the work itself. Excellent question and argument. Yeah. And, and I could, I may not have an argument against that except for the fact that it's worked. Well, okay, here's why. The argument we have is proof and results and results don't lie. So every one of our kids, so he has four older siblings, they all initially got into these habits and activities. They played these.

very little. Well, but the point is that they have. They have. Okay. And they could have. Here's the thing I want to point out. Sorry, I want to, I do want to point this out because I think it's important because, and I think we've mentioned this in another podcast. We have at least one child who I know would be a gamer if it had not been for our intervention. he could have been addicted to anything. He's a very addictive personality. But, but point is he played Minecraft and he was a kid who snuck Minecraft.

And until we intervened, or unless we had intervened, he would be a gamer. And so these strategies work in preventing these things from happening. And it's not because our kids are special or different or whatever. They have different outcomes because we have taken different actions. That's my point. And I wanted to point out that to answer your question, that people are naturally questioning. It's like, okay, well,

Do I have to do this indefinitely? And is that just an extrinsic motivator that will never become intrinsic? And I wanted to point out that for all four of our kids and for people I've coached, it starts out extrinsic, but very quickly becomes intrinsic where soon the child no longer needs the, the, the, the privilege for them to do the right thing. They get so used to it becomes a habit. They get into it, they grow into it, they mature into it, become more responsible.

And then they realize, well, I'm just going to do it. I'm going to help out. I'm going to have a good attitude. I'm going to do hard work. And eventually they literally need nothing. They need no, you know, privilege. They need no stimulus from us. They just get up, they get after it. They do their stuff. When you say, Hey, will you help us? Absolutely. And they come and help and they don't need anything anymore because you keep teaching them, you keep reiterating it and they get in the habit of like, well, I get up and I get about work because that's what a good life looks like. Right.

Rachel Denning (01:07:43.374)
Well, I want to disagree with you in a little bit here, just to emphasize a point, because you're saying they don't need anything from us and it just that happens. I don't think that's entirely true because the other thing that is happening is yes, he is externally motivated right now to do work. He's motivated by the audio book to do the work. But the other thing that's happening along the whole way is me saying things like, hey, I don't want you to just be motivated.

by the audiobook, I also want you to, you know, because I will intentionally at times say, no, go do that thing without an audiobook. Go feed the animals without an audiobook. And then I emphasize, and I want you to have a good attitude about it, because remember that this is a privilege. And if you want to keep having this privilege, you need to do some of the work I ask without the audiobook. The other thing we do intentionally is,

We praise him, we give him feedback and say, I'm so proud of you, you've been so responsible. You're doing such a great job. So grateful that you're doing this. It's so helpful. It's so needed. Like we're emphasizing all of the internal reasons, the internal motivations, we're emphasizing those. And you're right, doing the behaviors, actually doing the work, right? Rather than sitting around and doing nothing.

it gets him into the habit. It gets the biochemistry going. It gets him used to feeling good about working. It gets him used to being active. And so you're creating the habit and all of the biochemistry that is then training, literally training his body, brain, mind, emotions to, if you want to use the word, get addicted or get used to or be conditioned to.

doing these things doing the work along with the praise and the encouragement and the Positive feedback all of that goes into working and creating What you're talking about this thing where it becomes natural and normal for him to do that And that's that's happened with all of our kids and of course the underlying current is that we're also modeling We're also setting the example. We're doing that. So he sees it from us. He sees it from his older siblings we are

Rachel Denning (01:09:56.622)
We are actively engaged in a good life and doing work all day long like he is. We're not sitting around telling him to work and saying with a good attitude. I mean, we're all over it. So it's no shocker to him that we like this is how we do it. So just in this stage and this temporary period of training or conditioning, trying to emphasize it, we're using

a specific extrinsic or external motivator, a privilege and accountability to get him through this temporary state where he realized, yeah, this is how we roll. And so when I said earlier, you don't have to do anything. Like our older kid, like our son, Kimball, he's 18. You don't have to do any accountability with him. You don't have to ask him to do it. You don't have to.

Our 17th element. With, with, yeah, any of the older ones, you just say, Hey, can you help with this? Absolutely. In fact, it's even so good. Sometimes they just notice like, that needs to be done. They just do it and they help out. And so it leads to the ultimate goal of them being attentive, aware, helpful, capable, willing adults who it's awesome. It is awesome.

And so this is one specific strategy that we use to help get them to that place. Well, and I just want to reemphasize that for a minute because I think that's important that it is essentially training. Just like an athlete trains by, they don't train by sitting around and talking about and thinking about and being lectured about doing their sport. They get trained by actually doing the sport.

And so in a way that's what we're doing. We're using this external motivation to train them mentally, emotionally, physically to do the work so that then their body, their mind, their emotions gets used to doing the work. It's a similar process, but if you just let your kids do whatever thinking, they'll grow out of it, the reality is they're not really going to. They're not gonna just naturally grow out of it. They have to be trained out of it.

Rachel Denning (01:12:17.678)
And it goes back to that quote that we love about archilochus, you don't rise to the level of your expectations, you fall to the level of your training. And that's so true in our family life. And when we're raising our kids, our kids are not going to rise to our expectations. Just because we have the expectations does not mean they are going to rise to them. And what they will do. We told them, yeah, like I told them 10 ,000 times. Like, yeah, that's not going to work. Sorry. It doesn't work like that.

But what they will do is they are going to fall to the level of their training. And right now, specifically in this example, our son is in training. He is being trained to work and he's going to fall back to that work when he's 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, because he has been trained to do it now. So he will know how to create and generate results that matter.

He will know how to have a good attitude and do things that need to be done, whether he feels like doing them or not. And he will know through this training that the way to get the things you want in life is to put in the work to get it done. I mean, these are all just great relevant life lessons and it works like a champ. Love it. Yes. Thanks for listening. Thanks for being here. Thanks for Karen. Lead your kids. Again, train, don't accept the default.

Don't allow the default to be the default. Be deliberate, be intentional, be proactive, lead your kids into the behaviors you want them to do consistently and figure out the systems and strategies to make it work. And man, it works. And the results are worth every bit of effort to make it happen. Love you guys. Reach out for it.

Rachel Denning (01:14:19.214)
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