#267 The Challenges (& Lasting Impact) of the Baby/Child-Rearing Phases on Your Marriage & Parent/Child Relationships

Greg & Rachel (00:00.)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We are your host, Greg and Rachel Denning. Today. We're doing something a little bit new. Yeah. Different, really. And different. We haven't touched on this for years. Lots of years. When we were, well, and it's about having babies. Well, OK, because we have seven children. But our youngest at the moment is seven. So it has been. 

Greg & Rachel (00:31.244)
Seven years, six years, since we've had a baby. And yeah, I think we tend to focus, which is normal, we tend to focus on talking about things that are actually relevant to us right now. But we received a great question from somebody. He's like, hey, can you talk about becoming new parents? And what to expect, especially as it relates to, I think, intimacy between husband and wife. But we also, I also. And intimacy, but. 

Greg & Rachel (01:02.38)
Perhaps because it's a survival mode and it's just different, man. Well, right, we want to talk through that. When you're pregnant, you have an infant or a toddler. That's a different world. It is. It is a different world. And I think I want to talk through that so that especially new parents have a frame of reference. Yeah, it is definitely different. It is way different than... 

Greg & Rachel (01:27.98)
what you have been used to so far and it's going to be different than I think even where we're at now. It's so much different than that. It's a challenging time and I wanna talk through that. But I also personally wanna talk about a little bit about meeting the needs of babies and how important and critical that is to their mental, emotional, psychological development because that is one of the reasons that intimacy between spouses is affected. 

Greg & Rachel (01:55.66)
but it's important, so I want to talk about that. So there's a lot of things for me I'm excited to talk about. So this is really relevant for anyone who has young kids or babies or will. I think it's also important for people that still have older children because you're going to perhaps receive some insights about why you may not have the type of relationship with your children or your spouse that you want. 

Greg & Rachel (02:25.132)
have and it can kind of be this processing session where you begin to understand yeah that's what went wrong no wonder things are the way they are yes yes thank you so those of you who might be tempted not like I don't have little ones anymore we're done with that phase hopefully there's gonna be some great clues here to what's going on with your older kids because of what happened when they were younger exactly and in same in your marriage 

Greg & Rachel (02:51.34)
There may be things that are off in your marriage and with your kids. That happened during the childbearing stages. And you didn't know, right? Most people don't know. So it's like, it's not your fault you didn't know. But there's going to be ways to remedy that and fix it. And what's really interesting is some people get into that baby caring phase and they stay there. Some people mean usually women. Yeah, usually mothers. 

Greg & Rachel (03:19.788)
and they will stay in that kind of methodology or framework even as their kids get older and older and older, they're still... Babying them. Babying children and neglecting husbands. Yes. So I guess the invitation here is don't just like, well, I don't have babies anymore out of the phase and this isn't for me. It's like, no, this is... Yeah. If you're married, if you have children, this is for you. Right. And even if you're older, we have people who are now having grandkids. 

Greg & Rachel (03:49.868)
You want to hear this so you can help your children have children. Yeah, relates to to grandchildren, I think, for sure. OK, so I'm going to start just by reading the question that we received, and then we'll walk through it. My husband and I have been married for a little over two years, and we are expecting our first baby in the fall. Woo -hoo! We've both listened to and loved your podcast even before we were married. 

Greg & Rachel (04:12.812)
Now that we are about to become parents, we are re -listening to your podcast since they've taken on a decidedly new meaning and depth. Understandably, your podcasts talk a lot about older children, teenagers, and your adult children launching into successful lives. What I, the wife, was wondering is if you could answer some questions about what it was like to become parents for the first time. I've listened to prominent speakers like Jordan Peterson talk about how wives are essentially, quote, 

Greg & Rachel (04:42.22)
gone from their husbands for up to six months after the birth of a baby due to the intense vulnerability and helplessness of the new infant, as well as the healing mom needs to go through after giving birth. And while the husband acts as protector of the mother's energy and sanity during these first crucial months, he will just have to be patient as he, quote, waits for his wife to come back to him, unquote. And some men wait. 

Greg & Rachel (05:09.868)
years. Decades. And some moms never come back. Yeah so that's why this is important. First off, what does quote gone from him even mean? How did Rachel overcome the need to be the on -demand mom for so long without neglecting Greg? If she struggled, what did you do about it? My husband says he's not terribly worried about it. He should be. And has told me to just take the birth and first few months as it comes. Which is great. Which is true. 

Greg & Rachel (05:39.116)
And that I have... Maybe he's just like, I'm not worried, babe, it's okay. And he's like, he has no idea what's coming. Okay. That I have his full permission to be there for the baby. Which is awesome. Wonderful. However, the worried side of me won't seem to shut off because I don't want to be just the mother of his children. I want to be his wife first and foremost. Excellent. Good for her. Yes. That is awesome. And so that's awesome. Not done, done, And easy to say... 

Greg & Rachel (06:05.228)
having never given birth to a child and when that child comes into your world you're like... 

Greg & Rachel (06:11.756)
Like you just go in the deepest love trance of this child is everything and almost subconsciously forget about. wait. Anyone else including yourself. I had a husband. Yeah. I'm a person. So now. Wait let's. You're like I'm married and he's here. 

Greg & Rachel (06:35.916)
And you're like, don't worry, I won't forget you. And then you have that experience and your entire biochemistry, everything changes. And you're like, I love baby. I don't want to get into it too deep already. But then the other thing is to the sleep deprivation. Like it's a real thing. But let me finish. So you're operating on half a brain. Yeah. Because you're not getting sleep. OK. But let me finish. Let me finish. I love this stuff. All the things you say and think now. 

Greg & Rachel (07:04.716)
You won't say and think because you're literally a different person. Yeah, and you're going to be like sleep deprived, hungry, like your body's just gone through a crazy transformation and this love trance. Everything you thought and believed before is like, wait, what? Okay, but let me finish. Let me throw this out though. You need to relisten this episode after you have your baby. Yes, that's true. Okay, let me finish and then we'll get into it. 

Greg & Rachel (07:34.06)
I want to be his wife first and foremost. Maybe six months doesn't sound like a long time to veterans. That sounds like forever. But it certainly sounds like a long time to essentially quote clock out of wifey duties. Wonderful question. Fantastic question. Great question. Great thinking. So much awareness. Way to go. Yeah. Yeah. You're at tons of awareness already of like, hey, wait a minute. I want to think through this. I want to do this well. And I hope everybody listening 

Greg & Rachel (08:02.924)
kind of takes on that core life philosophy of like whatever is worth doing, I want to do it well. I think that's one of our superpowers for you and me. That's what's made our life genuinely extraordinary is because from the very beginning, we just, I don't know, both of us, even when we started dating, like you know, if we're gonna do something, we're gonna do it well. Let's just commit, let's do this right. Let's do it the best way we know how. And now every aspect of life. And as I'm thinking about this, 

Greg & Rachel (08:31.244)
based on what you've already said, in some ways it already feels hopeless, like, my gosh, there's no hope. We're just gonna be different people. And I think that's partly true. There is definitely something that goes on having birthed six children. Our oldest was adopted, and I wanna talk through that, how that was a different experience, because I wasn't pregnant. We were just married young adults, and then all of a sudden had a baby. So I wanna talk through that. But, hold on. 

Greg & Rachel (08:59.532)
There is definitely something, having done both, adopted and given birth, that happens to you as a woman mentally and emotionally that I'm a different person. I'm literally a different person. Starting in your pregnancy. Starting for me in my pregnancy until maybe nine months after the birth where, and I think it's hormonal ultimately, I'm just different. 

Greg & Rachel (09:23.532)
I'm not the same. I don't have the same ambition. I don't have the same interest. I don't have the same drive. I don't have the same focus. I don't have the same attention for you. I just didn't. And I didn't know how to change that during that time. The scientific term is crazy. Just kidding. Just kidding. No. But we realized after Rachel's pregnancies, I realized, I guess, and I had to settle this in my head, like, 

Greg & Rachel (09:53.644)
The Rachel I married, we'll call Rachel one. And the Rachel that is pregnant and new mom is Rachel too. Yeah. And you were fundamentally different. And when we say hormonal, it's just really an alter, an alteration in biochemistry. Yeah. Your biochemistry changes. And because you were nauseated and struggle sleeping, it just changes you. 

Greg & Rachel (10:22.508)
You have to understand that essentially, because a lot of people think, you have a personality and that's just who you are and that's personality is permanent. And there's actually a book out there called Personality Isn't Permanent because it's not. Your personality is very much determined by your biochemistry. And so you can change your personality by changing your biochemistry. Now what happens during pregnancy and birth is that your biochemistry has been changed to produce another human being. 

Greg & Rachel (10:52.268)
And so I feel like it is definitely a time period where you have less control. It's not that you don't have no control or you're totally out of control. But I feel like you have less control. There's way more factors involved into your biochemistry and how it's being affected than during normal times when you're not or nursing. And I think it's worth pointing out that any one of us, no matter how tough we think we are, 

Greg & Rachel (11:22.476)
consistent I am, how stable I am. 48 hours without sleep or food and you're gonna be a different person. I've seen it. We've gone into austere environments and rescue situations, humanitarian efforts, big adventures. Come with me on an adventure. We'll put you through a wringer and see how stable you are. See how you think and feel and act after 48 hours without sleep or food. You're gonna be and high stress. Crazy high stress, high pressure. 

Greg & Rachel (11:52.428)
lack of sleep, lack of food, sweating. Let's see what you're made of. Well, and Jordan Peterson has often talked about how we think that we are independent beings who just are stable and competent, but in reality, a lot of that stability and competency comes from our environment and the stability of our relationships and the stability of society in general, like the fact that we wake up and there is internet and power and... 

Greg & Rachel (12:22.38)
You know, like our world is functioning as we expect and we got the sleep we needed. Like all of those factors go into it. And so when you disrupt that, yeah, you have to work even harder to try to be the person that you were naturally before that happened. Which is another way of saying, and I just pointing out, we are all so fragile. It's true. Our identities are fragile. Our personalities are fragile. Our way of being is so fragile. 

Greg & Rachel (12:51.884)
And we, yeah, I love this concept because we think we're like, no, this is the way I am. yeah, you're only that way because you're sleeping and you're getting food and the power's on. Safety has been available. Your relationship is stable. Order has been available. And you just completely remove order and introduce chaos. And the vast majority of us. Right. We're just so done. 

Greg & Rachel (13:20.46)
Now I know all of this sounds depressing and terrifying like, wow, what's going to happen to me? I'm going to become a parent and like everything I know is going to change. And that is true. But I think the importance of this is having just some awareness again, coming back to the awareness of what's going to happen and being able to have this framework that in the end, it's temporary. That's the most important thing. It's only going to last the rest of your life. It's only, no, it's not. 

Greg & Rachel (13:49.74)
It's not going to last the rest of your life. Being a parent will last the rest of your life, but these specific conditions we're talking about that are so quote unquote chaotic, they are temporary because you will reach a point where you will sleep again, where your child won't be so demanding, where your relationship with your spouse will become more like it was. That will return. 

Greg & Rachel (14:16.076)
I think the hardest part for too many people and well, and I want to mention something else too, is that they feel like it will go on forever. That it will never be any different. And now coming out on the other side, we can say, no, it does. Those long nights feel like that. Yeah, it's true. And now in hindsight, of course, the cliche is, it passed so quickly. Like those years are gone. And I know it feels like forever when you're in them, but when they're over, you feel 

Greg & Rachel (14:45.932)
It 

Greg & Rachel (14:46.172)
feels like it was a blink of the eye. So the point is we have to learn to cherish and enjoy what we have. Including diapers and messes and demands. And getting up in the middle of the night. And crying, yeah. yeah. I think that that's the key to surviving those years is when you focus on simply enjoying them for what they are. Like, yeah, I wish I was sleeping, but I'm not. So I'm going to enjoy. 

Greg & Rachel (15:15.532)
cuddling with my baby right now while she nurses or whatever. Like you learn to enjoy what is rather than wishing for what isn't and that's the way you make it through in a sane manner that actually that can be enjoyable as well, right? That's the key. That's the point. Knowing that also it's not gonna last. It's gonna transition and change and they're gonna grow up and they're gonna move out eventually. You guys, I miss it. I really truly soul level miss it. 

Greg & Rachel (15:45.964)
Yesterday my daughter who's almost 18, she found a little picture from maybe five, six years ago. We were in Mexico, I think somewhere. And our youngest, Sandriana, who's seven, she was maybe one and a half or two. She fell asleep out cold on the countertop. 

Greg & Rachel (16:10.924)
She was laying there just gone. In our Airbnb in Mexico. Just laying there on this tile countertop while Leah was cooking. And it's just that chubby, cute, adorable. I think she had a little binky in. And gosh, I miss that so much. So much. And even seeing that picture just, it stirred my soul. And I guess, you know, we probably went 14 years with little ones. 

Greg & Rachel (16:40.428)
From the time we adopted Kaya to the time Sanji was born or won. So you're like 14 years. Without sleep. And yet it flies by and then when it's gone you're like, man, it's gone. And that's with seven children. So those who have smaller families, it's a small window. Yeah. 

Greg & Rachel (17:05.612)
It's a very small window and when you step back and look at the time that you actually have all of your children under one roof, that's short. And then all the time you have just little ones that are just their adorable little cute chubbiness and all their little way of being, that's a tiny window. So you're right. Lean into it, enjoy it, love it. Even the hard part of it, like they say in the military, just embrace the suck. 

Greg & Rachel (17:31.596)
You know, like, I have to carry these kids everywhere. I have to do everything for them. Yep. Enjoy. Well, which I want to talk about that as well because this is important to the topic. But I want to say something else because one of the things, one of the ways I feel that couples get into trouble during this time is that they... 

Greg & Rachel (17:52.108)
I don't know how to say this in a nice way. Neither of them realize that the wife is not the same, that she's not normal during that time. And like you were saying, we were able to identify that there was Rachel one and there was Rachel two. And that helped a lot. Because - To be clear, that took me a bit. Yeah, it did. I was like, what the heck? Right. 

Greg & Rachel (18:16.364)
Stop acting like that. Stop being this. This isn't the person I married. Right. And I had this turmoil. And then I guess it was specifically it was things like while I was pregnant, I I'm a very ambitious person. I love to read and be productive and get things done. And when I'm pregnant, I like to watch Netflix. That's about it. That's about all I can do. Whenever you're just looking for distraction. Yeah, because I was nauseated. 

Greg & Rachel (18:42.22)
And so to you, you're like, I did not marry the Netflix chick. What are you doing? This is not acceptable. And just eating whatever. Yeah, eating whatever I felt like eating because I didn't feel like eating everything. And so that was hard for you. And what I want to emphasize is that when you can recognize that, OK, you're a different person right now. And so I'm going to. 

Greg & Rachel (19:10.348)
be okay with that. Well, to a point. This isn't a free pass to do anything. Right. But that's also challenging. Agreed. But I'm going to be okay with it because it will have an end. Now the challenge that comes around is when couples don't realize that and especially if women then take on that identity and now become that person permanently. And we've seen it. You've seen it with coaching clients and people you've worked with that for one 

Greg & Rachel (19:38.252)
especially people that have large families, the wife can be in that stage indefinitely. Like we know some people who have lots of children and so she's never out of that pregnancy or nursing stage and so she's constantly in this hormonal. Nursing right up until the next pregnancy. Right and so in that case like it's ongoing crazy. It's ongoing hormones here and it's that is very disruptive not you know not saying that having a big family is a bad thing because we have a big family. 

Greg & Rachel (20:08.396)
But if you're not aware of what's going on and you never go back to that state of normal for a while, then you begin to believe that this is just who you are, which is not really the case. But it could be. Well, because you become that. People can change, can change, you become so you can you into  then become that person and stay that way. And that does happen. And so then that becomes very disruptive to the relationship because you then just become that person. 

Greg & Rachel (20:34.668)
And it's not the person your husband married. Which is an important point. Had you stayed, had you gone into that phase and stayed? The Netflix phase? Yeah, just like no ambition, do whatever, no drive. If I had stayed there, we would probably be divorced. Yep. Like that's how, seriously. No, we're not doing that. But it was generally within six weeks after you had a baby that... 

Greg & Rachel (21:03.884)
I just noticed this spark come back. The productivity would start to come back. And I'm like, I'm gonna. And vibrancy and life and excitement and like, hey, I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna get ready and let's go do something. I feel driven to do some, even to clean up the kitchen. Yes, she's back. There's hope, it's coming. And it wasn't immediate, because like we said before, sometimes it would last nine months, but it started to come back. And so I guess that's where we can start getting into some of the specifics on this question of like, well, what does it mean? 

Greg & Rachel (21:32.78)
when you're gone. Well, partly it's that. It's the nausea. It's the exhaustion. It starts in the pregnancy. And it depends. You know, like, she's already pregnant. She's due in the fall. It depends. For me, and I hate to say things about what to expect because I believe that women then have these expectations of like, that's what it will be like for me. I remember with my mom, she told me each of her pregnancies got easier and I expected that. 

Greg & Rachel (22:01.26)
It was the opposite for me. Each of my pregnancies got harder. And so it was disappointing when I'm like, why is this harder? It's supposed to be easier. In hindsight, it got harder because your physical condition worsened. You were in worse shape with each pregnancy. OK, OK, Let's touch on that for a minute. Because as far as what you can control, I believe that that's one of the things that I did wrong. I did not. Well, first of all, people who know our story know I'm. 

Greg & Rachel (22:29.708)
never been great at working out. I was not great at working out. That made a huge difference with my pregnancies. If I had been more fit, I would have had better, and I'm not necessarily saying that's going to affect the nausea, I don't know, but it definitely had a negative impact on my abdominal strength, which then made each successive pregnancy harder because my abdominal muscles were weaker and weaker and weaker. So that leads to poor sleep. 

Greg & Rachel (22:59.564)
Back pain, worse delivery. Yeah, harder deliveries and all of my deliveries, longer recoveries, all of my deliveries were natural and they were at home. So they were unmedicated, but they were definitely harder. The last one was the hardest because of the lack of abdominal strength. So that's one thing that is within your control and something you should be doing beforehand, like, because once you then get pregnant to decide to work out is harder than to decide to do it. 

Greg & Rachel (23:29.42)
But if you know if you can continue exercising in some way that's gonna help a lot and make a difference in pregnancy and I and I'm using I mean it's anecdotal but Comparing myself to my sister who also has seven children gave birth six times because she has twins She Her abdominal her she literally has flat abs still to this day with no stretch marks And I'm like that's because you worked out and I didn't like that that made all the difference so I feel like that 

Greg & Rachel (23:58.04)
definitely plays an important role. Absolutely. So yeah, that's something that's within your control that can make a positive impact. And that's one of those things in life where you're just like, you may not always feel like doing it, but just do it. And adjust it. It doesn't have to be the same. The workout you're doing pre -pregnancy and the workout you do with six months pregnant can be very, very different. Or it could be the same. It depends. 

Greg & Rachel (24:24.588)
When I was a personal trainer, I was working in the gym. This lady came in. She put in, I think, five miles on a treadmill every single day right up until she delivered. And I watched her. I was working there the whole time. And she just got bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And I'm like, one of these days, she's not going to run. Nope. She came in, ran, and then a couple days later, had a baby. And I was like, what in the? It was amazing. It was incredible. Because she had conditioned herself to be able to do that. Yeah. Absolutely. I'm going to keep going. Right. OK. So that's an important thing. 

Greg & Rachel (24:54.38)
Eating well also. Eating well, of course. I want to touch on some proactive, preemptive things. Eat well all the time, pre -pregnancy, during pregnancy, post -pregnancy. Just eat healthy food. That makes such a gigantic difference. So you are going to lose sleep. There may not be much you can do about that. I mean, we'll strategize, but if a baby wakes up, a baby wakes up. But what you put in your mouth, you can do something about that. 

Greg & Rachel (25:22.988)
And that's important. And we already mentioned that for me, I became more, well, I don't know what the word is, but I had less control or less interest in what I was eating. But there's still, for us, we have the hard deck. We call it the hard deck. The hard deck is the thing, you don't cross that. There's still the hard deck there of, no, I'm not crossing that line. 

Greg & Rachel (25:49.804)
My daughter shared, my oldest daughter, Kaia, she shared this reel with me of this Instagram couple. I don't know, they're pretty well known. I don't know their names, but anyways, she was pregnant and the reel was she was holding a box of Krispy Kreme donuts that she was gonna eat and he comes over and you know, it's controversial to people because he slaps it out of her hand and then he goes and he shows him making her healthy donuts which were made out of like apples fried in, you know, whatever. 

Greg & Rachel (26:20.332)
And the point was, well yeah, she's still gonna have her cravings, but as her husband, I'm gonna help her meet her cravings in a healthier way. And people were saying, well, it's still fried, it's not that, but it's better. It's better than the Krispy Kreme, right? And so there's levels there, and maybe the levels drop a little bit, but still, you're trying to make it better than, you don't have to go all the way to Kentucky Fried Chicken and Krispy Kreme. You know what I'm saying? So. 

Greg & Rachel (26:46.476)
find the healthy levels and stay at those healthy levels. Because I never went to that. It's not like I was eating McDonald's or anything. Because we don't eat at McDonald's. So yeah, healthy food. I guess I kind of just want to walk through it a little bit and talk about, I specifically want to talk about the importance of the mental, emotional, psychological development of the child. But like with our first, we adopted her. 

Greg & Rachel (27:13.388)
and we were probably 24 or 25 maybe. We had a four hour warning. And well not not totally we did kind of have a four hour warning but we had put in adoption papers four months earlier it only took us four months so it was really pretty short. But the day of yeah it was four hours we got up and we drove to the airport. 

Greg & Rachel (27:37.132)
to pick her up at the airport. They called Rachel at eight. I was already at work. She got ready and came over and grabbed me and said, hey, we're going to the airport to get a baby. I'm like, wait, what? There was not a nine month pregnancy. No. And so maybe we could say it was a four month pregnancy because we'd put in our paperwork and knew it would happen sometime. But like that, it switched and we were parents. And so that night, she went to sleep and she woke up a few times to eat. We fed her. 

Greg & Rachel (28:06.444)
goats milk people will be like why did you do that we had a reason at the time to feed her goats milk and like that we were parents and I remember I kind of remember not like I was not working at the time I'd already quit in preparation of having a baby or adopting a baby and so I had the freedom to stay home and so the waking up thing wasn't a huge deal because I was able to sleep in the next day and be with her 

Greg & Rachel (28:34.732)
So that really is important because I hear this a lot from couples, especially from men. They're like, hey, I want to help out. I really do. But like it or not, feel like it or not, I have to be at work the next morning at 730 or 830. I don't get a choice. My boss doesn't say, did your baby wake you up? yeah. Take the day off. Come in late. The boss doesn't care. The economy doesn't care. 

Greg & Rachel (29:04.3)
Whatever. He's like, I got to go. He's like, but my wife, she's like, it's your baby to get up. And he's like, I, yes, you're right. But you got to stay home and sleep in. You got to sleep in. You got to take a nap when the baby takes a nap. Like. I don't. I don't. There's no napping in my workplace. It's not allowed. This is like, I want to help. And I know that's a good point. Our baby, not your baby. But. 

Greg & Rachel (29:33.932)
We're both tired. Neither one of us wants to wake up, but one of us has the option of sleeping in and taking a nap. The other doesn't. And I think that was... I think it's important to take that in consideration. And I know that because you were still very helpful with her and our subsequent babies. But yeah, it definitely... I feel that on the nights when neither of us could sleep because she was screaming or whatever, like that's when you were really helpful because I needed the emotional support. 

Greg & Rachel (30:03.5)
But otherwise, you know, if it's just a quick get up to feed her, whatever, yeah, you should be sleeping because I can sleep in in the morning and I can take a nap with her. And so those types of things I think are important. I know people think, it's just traditional roles. Well, OK. But if this is who's working and one's staying home, yeah, they should be sleeping. Now, in later years, when we both worked from home, yeah, we equally shared that job. 

Greg & Rachel (30:31.404)
And you would get up. Even when you were young, I got up a lot. Yeah, you would get up because we both had the opportunity of sleeping in because we work from home, which was great. So yeah, that's a good point to remember. I changed a lot of diapers. I'll just throw this in here. And I know some men are like, I don't do diapers. That's a woman's job or whatever. I don't know if that's a thing nowadays. Yeah, I still hear it or whatever. I don't know. It still comes up. I changed a lot of diapers. 

Greg & Rachel (31:02.731)
purposely. I wanted to help. I wanted to be a part of that. And it was a way to connect with the kids. Especially if I am getting up and when you are home, you basically changed all the diapers while you were home. That was the break I had. It's like, you're home. You get to change the diapers until you go to work again. And I carried the kids. They were heavy, fat little monsters. I carried them all over. And they were born close together. The first four came close together. 

Greg & Rachel (31:31.308)
I was carrying two or three kids sometimes. I had no problem taking care of the dirty work and cleaning up messes. I just leaned into it. I was like, like, this is what it's like. There's a lot of diapers, a lot of messes, a lot of chubby babies. Let's go. And for me as a husband, I just thought, OK, we'll have to be strong enough to carry babies. And I have to. 

Greg & Rachel (31:53.676)
I think I became a mouth breather because of all the diapers. Which is not a good thing. We later learned. Mouth breathing is not good. I'm just a mouth breather and nose breather. I think I know why. It's because I literally just stopped breathing through my nose. There's so many diapers. But but it's a subtle but significant thing. Like if there are messes clean up, there's little spills, stains like it was the dirty work. Yeah. 

Greg & Rachel (32:21.42)
Absolutely. Any of the dirty work, the heavy lifting, I'm like, I got this. And I leaned way into it. So you did have help. I think one of the reasons it can become very overwhelming is if wives and moms don't feel supported. And especially in relation to the question of feeling like she clocks out of her wife duties or she's gone, that definitely plays into it. 

Greg & Rachel (32:49.42)
One, she is getting up with the kids, especially if you're going to work and you're sleeping. Two, she's with them all day and exhausted because despite what you think, it's nonstop. It's like go, go, go. It's exhausting. And then if he comes home and he's not helpful and he's not helping to carry that load, she's definitely going to be checked out. And why would she be interested in her wifely duties? Because. 

Greg & Rachel (33:16.332)
You're not helping her. You're not giving her a break. You're not giving her a chance to recover. I need to rest. You've just been sitting at home with our baby. Yeah. So cute. So cute and adorable. What's your problem? And so I think as it relates to intimacy specifically, this is partly where it plays in. Because in order for women to engage sexually, 

Greg & Rachel (33:45.836)
There's a lot that has to happen mentally and emotionally. Like, I was watching a course about sex. And again, and one of the things they say is like, your biggest sexual organ is your brain. And I think that's especially true for women. If your brain is overloaded, you are not going to be interested in sex. And on a biological level, that makes sense. Like, reproduction is a luxury in some ways. If you're not surviving, 

Greg & Rachel (34:16.812)
you're in survival mode and that's what takes precedence. So in a way, moms are living in survival mode and so the reproductive functions are not on the radar at all. So it's almost like you have to be very intentional of creating this space for her to be able to get to the point of being sexual, which is extra hard when she has a baby because what comes first? 

Greg & Rachel (34:43.916)
is her own personal sanity. She's not going to jump from baby care to you. She has to go through a phase of personal recovery. Like, I just need to be by myself for a minute without someone touching me or climbing on me or grabbing me. I just need me time. So if that's not built into her routine, basically... 

Greg & Rachel (35:08.812)
And husband's not helping facilitate that. Well yeah, it's only going to be built into the routine if the husband helps. She's never going to get to the sexual part. Just because you can't. Like again, back to the biochemistry and the physiology. It's just not there. There's not room for sex when you're overloaded with care and exhaustion. Right? Your body just can't get there. So. 

Greg & Rachel (35:35.948)
when we understand that on a biological level, then we're like, that makes sense. Well, yeah. So what she needs is tons of recovery. And then after the recovery, then there can be space for that. But that takes a lot of work and planning and strategy to be able to make that happen. Support. Especially with a young baby and a new baby. Yeah. Which then that brings me to I want to talk about. 

Greg & Rachel (36:04.14)
the importance of why the baby's needs do come first, especially during these years, right? And you and I somehow were, I think this was just instinctual for us at first, because I don't know that we ever talked about it per se. I think part of the reason we had this viewpoint was I read a lot of books on, even before we adopted our firsts, I read a bunch of books about home birth, which really got me into that kind of natural mothering approach that's very kind of intuitive and ancestral, if you want to say. 

Greg & Rachel (36:33.9)
So that as soon as we adopted our baby, like we were both very adamant and proactive about meeting her needs. So when she cried or when she was upset, like we were just right on it. I remember one time, I mean, the quintessential story is we were at your mom's house for Christmas or something and she was sleeping in the other room and she started crying and both of us just jumped up and ran into the room to go. 

Greg & Rachel (37:03.18)
go get her because we just very much believed in essentially that babies shouldn't cry like they shouldn't be left to cry and I know there's a lot of discussion about this and disagreement I personally believe babies should not cry like and Jordan Peterson says this too I can have him back it up during the first year or even maybe 18 months of a child's life definitely the first six to nine months for sure a baby can't be spoiled you cannot spoil them 

Greg & Rachel (37:28.844)
Meaning it's impossible to do. It's impossible to spoil them. So if you met their needs every second they demanded it, you're not going to spoil them. In fact, what you're doing is the exact opposite. You are building a solid mental, emotional, psychological foundation that will pay off huge down the road. In fact, I believe... That's where they develop this massive sense of security, safety, and love. That's where it develops. It develops in those early months. 

Greg & Rachel (37:58.22)
years when they begin to feel like the world is safe like people love me when I need something because I'm helpless literally and obviously they don't think like this because they're a baby but this is what develops in the brain when I need something because I'm helpless and I can't get it myself there are people surrounding me who will meet my needs and that builds this foundation which I think then later 

Greg & Rachel (38:24.524)
carries over into your relationship with your children and as they become teenagers. In fact, I believe that many of the behavioral issues that people have with their children started in infancy. It started in those early years when, and I've read the books and I've seen the philosophies when, my baby's on a schedule. I don't care if they're crying now, they don't eat for another hour. 

Greg & Rachel (38:50.38)
Like to me, that's just the most absurd thing in the world. You're destroying your child mentally and emotionally. You're teaching them that if I need something and I'm hungry, nobody will listen. Because I have a schedule. Because they don't know that. Some arbitrary schedule. So stupid. Exactly. Same with sleep schedules. Sleep schedules too. Like, you know, if I... Or letting children cry it out. You know, we very much believed in co -sleeping and our babies always slept in the same room. 

Greg & Rachel (39:19.276)
often the same bed, although later I preferred just the same room, not the same bed. And we were there for them all the time. And that, to me, has been foundational in the relationship we currently have with our children. I mean, even our adult children. We literally were on the phone yesterday with our 20 -year -old son. And then he was sending us messages later just how much he loves us and appreciates us, how much he admires us and respects us and so grateful for us. 

Greg & Rachel (39:48.108)
All of those types of things. And interestingly, so it's not misunderstood here. Our children are very independent. Yes. Very tough. You're worried about capable. Well, because there's there's a there's a point where you go too far. Yeah. And the babying continues. You know, you think, no, they need all their needs met. And then when they're four, five, six, 14, you're still, my little baby. I can't. And we're the opposite of that. What? No. Push that kid off a cliff. 

Greg & Rachel (40:17.74)
And let them throw them into some water. Get in the cold water and swim around like, no, man, no. And same when you fall down, like, hey, we're there. But it's like, you're tough. You got this. We weren't babying them all the time. We were meeting their needs. And there's an important distinction there. Exactly. There's a difference. Coddling them continually. That creates these little these little babies. 

Greg & Rachel (40:44.428)
And so some people might be listening to this, be like, yeah, I met some 20 year olds that really love their parents so much that they're never ever gonna move out and they can't do anything. They take mama to all their interviews for jobs. Even though they just can't get jobs. Even though mom was there to do the interview interview them. Whoa, we are not talking about that. And it's meeting those core needs as babies and then. 

Greg & Rachel (41:10.892)
tactfully helping them launch that makes the biggest difference. No, yeah, and thank you for clarifying that because it's true that there's so much else involved there, but 

Greg & Rachel (41:20.94)
But the point is, because our children are very independent, you know, our son right now is in the United States, we're in Portugal, he's traveled by him, he went to Turkey and Venice and all these places by himself, he went and worked in Florida, he's done a lot of things by himself, but he's expressing his love and appreciation because he recognized, and he even said, like, what our family has is so special and beautiful and I love it and I just love being with all of you because it's so wonderful. But all of that, what I'm trying to emphasize is, 

Greg & Rachel (41:50.316)
I believe all of that started in the cradle, if you want to say that, right? It started when they were babies because we focused during those crucial years on meeting those important needs, those basic needs. And if you look at like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, like that's the bottom, the bottom part of the pyramid right there is that meeting the food, the shelter, the safety, the clothing. That's what you're doing with a baby. 

Greg & Rachel (42:19.5)
in the first year of life. And so tying it into this question here about the wife being gone or whatever, it is important. And I love what her husband is saying and that he'll support that. That's good. That's important because that is going to take the precedence. If your baby cries, that's more important. You do have to leave your husband and say, I'm sorry, the baby's crying. I have to go feed the baby. I have to go comfort the baby because that is most important. And if you don't do that because the husband gets jealous, which happens, 

Greg & Rachel (42:49.132)
Your husband will get jealous of the baby. Well, we'll get into that in a second because what just happened is you got some competition. Right, exactly. Beforehand, it was just the two of you. Now, there's someone else who needs attention and it can be a little jealousy inducing because there's some competition. And so if you're not careful, that can also play into the relationship in a bad way with the father -child relationship. 

Greg & Rachel (43:16.14)
Yeah, if you're not really careful, a father can quickly become to get to a point where he's resentful toward a child. Because it's like, man, my wife, I was married, but now I'm quote, no longer married. She's become a mom, and she forgot that she's a wife. Exactly. Right. So it is difficult to find that balance because, as we already said, and you and I agreed, that did take precedence. The baby's needs did need to be met. 

Greg & Rachel (43:44.396)
if the wife is not intentional about then one making sure you carve out your space so that you feel rested and restored at least to some point I'm not going to say you're going to be 100 % but if you can get back to 50 or 70 % great and then be intentional about making some time for your husband which you know to be short and to the point is going to be sex as you know as soon as you can as soon as you feel ready for that 

Greg & Rachel (44:14.028)
Which includes physical healing from the birth process. Absolutely, right. Of course. And then just just mental -emotional state. Yeah. Do you feel like they kind of came back simultaneously, one sooner than the other? You know, I don't really remember for sure. I think it was probably about this... No, sometimes I might have been mentally or emotionally ready before I was physically ready, depending on the birth. But yeah. 

Greg & Rachel (44:44.204)
probably about the same period, which I think honestly it was probably six weeks generally. Yep. So. It was about that time, which was just physical healing. Yeah. But that didn't mean necessarily going back to the sexual life we had before. It was probably more like a once a week type thing. And kind of slowly getting back into it. Yeah, slowly getting back into it because of all the demands and the lack of sleep. But the point is, and 

Greg & Rachel (45:12.044)
Again, her question is very intentional. She's aware of that. Good, wonderful. So as long as you have that intention, you can get back to that realizing it's not going to be the same right away. It's going to take time. So what are some specific strategies to? 

Greg & Rachel (45:33.915)
navigating the last bit of pregnancy, the birth, and then the recovery. 

Greg & Rachel (45:40.748)
just for your sanity and for the marriage. I know on the husband's side, I have to step up my game. That's why, like, marriage forces you, well, even dating, you start dating. And And of course. It forces you to level up. Like, if I want to ask a girl out, I gotta level up. And then if I want her to say yes, I have to level up. And then if I want the date to go well, I have to level up. And if I want her to like me and keep liking me, I have to keep leveling up. And then engagement, and then marriage. I'm like, gosh, I gotta keep leveling up. 

Greg & Rachel (46:09.772)
And then after the honeymoon phase, you're like, I have to keep leveling up. I got to keep earning it. And then babies come. And I think a lot of people stop. They're like, no, this is another chance to level up, to increase your capacity. You have to be able to handle more. You got to be able able do more. So what does that mean on the husband's side? I'm like, OK, she needs more help. And now I have to provide for a baby. I have to help take care of the baby. And I got to help my wife. 

Greg & Rachel (46:37.676)
Well, and in a way, you have to take care of her, too. Right. Like, you have to be there for her. There it is. Now I got two people I have to take care of. And in a tough... Not Not you weren't taking care of me before, but it's... But But it's another level. It's more need. Because I'm... Because likely what often happens is she's taking less care of herself. Right. Because she's taking more care of her baby. And so it was simple things. For me, it was like, I would like a shower. I haven't been able to shower for days, right? Because... 

Greg & Rachel (47:07.02)
How do you shower with a little baby, especially if you put them to sleep, but then you're worried that you can't hear them? I mean, there's so many things that go into it that I'm not getting a shower. So for you to be able to help me to be able to get a shower, that's a big deal. It's the little things like that of helping to restore some of that order that is now missing. And I learned to love that, where I would come home and I'm like, OK, the kids are mine. 

Greg & Rachel (47:33.964)
or even early in the morning or whatever. I'm like kids are mine and I would either play with them or take them running. Okay my favorite because this was chronic is that you would hold them and you would both fall asleep and I would find you sleeping on the couch with a baby on your chest. Out cold. Which when I want to say this too that was another thing like holding your babies while sleeping that's something that in American culture is like so taboo. Don't do that don't let your baby sleep while you're holding them. 

Greg & Rachel (48:03.148)
No, it's very natural. People all over the world hold their babies while they sleep. And so baby holding is a thing. And it can be so helpful in helping with the whole situation. Because then if dad comes home and now he's holding the baby and the baby's sleeping and resting, everybody's just better off. I forgot about that. I fell asleep so many times with the baby sleeping in my arms or on my chest. Yeah, exactly. And so I spent a lot of time with my kids. 

Greg & Rachel (48:32.524)
just cuddle up and snuggling. And then countless hours on a backpack, on a chest pack, on my shoulders. In a stroller. In a stroller. I took them out to have adventures. We ran and biked hiked.  were going out for the adventure part. And when they're very young, obviously, they're just sleeping. But then as they grew, yeah, they learned to love being out there and being a part of it. But yeah. It was a was a huge, huge of bonding And that was a major  

Greg & Rachel (49:02.444)
Because then that's some me time. That's some time when I get to do something else I want or need to do. And you wouldn't have necessarily asked for that. So I'm going to say dads like be super proactive about that. And wives ask for it. Make the ask. If the husbands are kind of clueless and husbands are kind of clueless. Right. So make the ask like this. No, like I come home. Let's go. And and by taking the kids leading out. 

Greg & Rachel (49:31.692)
And guys, but I had a hard day of work, man. Man up, dude. Work day is one thing. Now you're home. Let's go. Buckle up. Get some energy. Get some excitement. Lean in there. Grab the kids and go, whether they're six months or 16. Like, let's go. Six weeks. Lean into it, man. And help out as much as you can. And what that does is it allows it allowed you, Rachel, to. 

Greg & Rachel (50:00.364)
recovery and downtime and rest and take naps and and start recovering right and yeah and I always hoped it would lead to sex and it disappointingly didn't always lead to sex but it helped get back there 

Greg & Rachel (50:22.828)
Right, it helped in the overall recovery, which is ultimately what's happening, is recovery. You're recovering from the whole process. And so, yeah, even if it wasn't directly connected to sex that day, it definitely was connected to sex next week or next month, right? Let's not go out that far. I know, but got to... That's way too far out. But I'm talking about if you've got a six week recovery from the birth, then you can't... 

Greg & Rachel (50:48.204)
will 

Greg & Rachel (50:48.484)
be like, I'll wait till then to start helping out. Then you might be waiting years. You've years. You've start making the deposits now. Exactly. Right. That's my point. Don't wait because it's not going to lead to it now. That's true. Because you're like, six weeks, nothing. I'm just going to go in the other room and do my thing. Right. And be depressed. buddy. You're going to be in the other room by yourself for years. For a long time. It's going to be be horrible.  want to circle back to the competition thing. 

Greg & Rachel (51:13.484)
I'm talking like healthy competition. You're not in an actual competition with a child with a baby. It's ridiculous. But what you're doing is like, well, we're competing for attention. Now, that doesn't mean you cry more than your baby does. Right. You're getting a a cry. Some men do. They start pouting, whining, misbehaving. You're like, dude, she doesn't need another baby. She needs you to level up so much that that can't help but. 

Greg & Rachel (51:43.564)
keep looking away from her baby back to you because wow, gosh. Let's talk about that because that is a good point because yeah, in this cycle that's occurring of jealousy and competition and attention, if you, the man, start acting more like a child, that is not attractive. I'm just going to tell you. It's not. You have to become more attractive to her. And what is attractive? 

Greg & Rachel (52:13.58)
is your help and your manliness, like you taking on burdens and willingly doing the dirty jobs and all those, like to me, yeah, you changing diapers, that was sexy because I'm like, yeesh, no, neither of us like it, especially the really dirty, messy, gross ones, especially the blowouts, you know, nobody likes that. Or when you're, I know, we tried to forget, but I remember. Or like if, and it happens, like. 

Greg & Rachel (52:40.3)
The child poops on the carpet and then you open the door and the poop smears across the carpet with the door opening. You did those jobs. You cleaned them up. I don't know why, but I was like, no, that's my job. Yeah. That's my job. Or I know there are plenty of men that would be like, I'm not doing that. I'm going to let her do that. That's not attractive. You doing that just made you more attractive to me because I'm like, you love me because you're willing to do that. And that is what then 

Greg & Rachel (53:10.252)
leads to eventually intimacy and sex. So the key then is to keep leveling up in manliness. Yeah. To keep becoming more capable, more competent, more attractive. So I'm trying to earn your attention again. It's almost like you're dating again. Yeah. So every time dating, courting. Well, if you think about it that way, you know, you're trying when you were out in the dating field, you're trying to become the most attractive option out there. 

Greg & Rachel (53:39.404)
compared to the other men, now it's just... Now you're going you're going own home. Yeah. And with seven kids, you're like, I'm gonna, I got this. Who's your daddy? I have to be the most attractive, right? Yep, I'm I'm gonna  here. And that's always the case. And why not? Like, work for it, earn for it. Because ultimately, it is the man and wife relationship that's the most important, the most paramount. It is their... 

Greg & Rachel (54:06.092)
that foundational relationship that builds the strength and stability of the family. So yeah, it has to be that way. But it is easy for men and women after a kid comes to slip into mom role, dad role, and then roommates with occasional benefits. And that's just a lame transactional existence. It doesn't have to be that way. Speaking of, we're going to do a podcast about 

Greg & Rachel (54:34.604)
because we got a really great question from someone about a wife who's tired of being a roommate with benefits for her. Dangalang. Spouse. good. I'm excited about that. So So going to to that next. So in this question, she asks, OK, if Rachel struggled with it, what did she do? So let's try to go back in our mind palace to these time periods. This periods. This we need to talk about this, because there is a difference in the roles between men and women. Your job is to level up. 

Greg & Rachel (55:03.02)
to help out, to support wherever you can despite the fact that you're also tired, you're also exhausted, you're also sex deprived and sleep deprived. Like, you know, things aren't perfect. And there's nothing worse than that. It's the worst condition. Sex deprivation has got to be the worst condition in humanity. I'm being sarcastic, but it is pretty bad. One time I went 23 years. 

Greg & Rachel (55:29.676)
That's not even funny, okay, because you were a baby part of those years, all right? That's just wrong. So anyways, but on your end, you're leveling up. For me, for the wife, for the mom, I really think it just comes down to intentional self -care. And at the same time, just... 

Greg & Rachel (55:56.332)
Enjoying the process if that makes sense which can be challenging because you'll have an intention to do something for self -care which then gets interrupted by the baby and So there it's almost like they're in opposition to each other which they are So it's trying to find that balance of being able to do the self -care But also enjoying the interruptions from the baby and then this is that's where I I gonna go because now you're like before it was like self -care and some responsibilities and husband care yeah, now it's like 

Greg & Rachel (56:26.38)
Baby care first. Then maybe some self care. If you even remember to take care of yourself, which a lot of moms don't. It's instinctively just all attention and care to baby. Then some self care. And then last is husband care. So the question, like how do you do that? How do you possibly do that? And then you add more kids down the road. Like how do you possibly take care of babies, take care of yourself, and take care of your husband? To most people it's gonna seem like it just can't be done. It's not doable. 

Greg & Rachel (56:57.74)
Good luck. No. I think it has to go back to. 

Greg & Rachel (57:06.423)
For one thing, there are times and seasons, like right after the birth or right before the birth, there's not self -care. I mean, maybe, yeah, if you can get some sleep or eat some good food and maybe do some walking or whatever, like that's it. That's your self -care. So things do get out of balance. I think part of that's the point. You need to remember, it's going to be out of balance. But... 

Greg & Rachel (57:30.796)
you need to, in the back of your mind, have this intention to start focusing and noticing where and when you can start bringing more balance and order. I think for me that was it. I just would try to pay attention to like, how can I make this a little bit better? How can I make this a little bit less stressful? How can I make them sleep a little bit more? Like, how can I slowly make those incremental changes? It's optimization. To optimize and to improve all of this. And that, for me, it would include like, 

Greg & Rachel (58:00.716)
reading different books and stuff. Now you have to be careful because you can read books with the wrong philosophies and then you've got your baby on some sleep schedule and they're crying out, you know, they're crying themselves to sleep and you're only feeding them every four hours or whatever. So you've got to be careful about what you're reading because that's going to have a direct impact on your child and your relationship ultimately and yourself. One book I did like that I can remember again but not 

Greg & Rachel (58:28.268)
I'm not recommending everything 100 % was the child whisperer. I liked her approach because it focused on routines, not schedules. And her 100 % and and an approach we still use is routines, not schedules. And the routine is that essentially baby would go through four phases. One, they would sleep, then they would wake up and eat because they're hungry, then they would play whatever that looked like for a. 

Greg & Rachel (58:54.54)
a baby that's just looking at you and interacting and whatever, and then they'd go back to sleep. Like, there might have been one other, I can't remember, but it was basically that. And if you could remember that that's the essential routine, then you kind of knew what was going on, where I feel like so many parents are clueless, they're just like, I don't know what's happening next, why are they crying? And they're like, well, they're crying because of one of those four reasons, basically. They're either tired, they're hungry, they're bored. They're changed. Or, yeah, changing. 

Greg & Rachel (59:23.212)
That was probably the other one. It's one of those four things. Once you get that, you're like, it's simple. Like sleep, eat, play, clean up, sleep, eat, play, clean up. And that's it. So you have this routine that's not on a schedule. It doesn't happen at 10 o 'clock. I get so fired up about this. Because mom is like, looking at her watch or phone, it's like, but now it's 10. So the child is this, and like, no, the child's on its own routine. Well, it's 8 PM. The child needs to go to bed. No. 

Greg & Rachel (59:52.62)
They go to bed when they're tired. And so if you try try force things for some arbitrary stupid reason, man, you wreck family dynamics in kids. Exactly. No, you totally do. But when you have this framework in mind and you know, essentially it helps you to know that, OK, if they've been asleep and they wake up and they're crying, well, they're hungry. So you feed them. It doesn't matter what time it is. You feed them because they're waking up and they're hungry. Or they're waking up because they're 

Greg & Rachel (01:00:20.588)
I mean, obviously there's some variables in 

Greg & Rachel (01:00:22.408)
there that maybe they had a blowout and so they're waking up because they're uncomfortable and you change them. But then they would, after eating, then they would go into the play stage and so then they would play. And then if they started crying after that, they're probably tired, right? And so it helps you to realize and perhaps anticipate what they needed next. And as long as you meet their needs, 

Greg & Rachel (01:00:46.284)
I mean, it's not easy, but it's a whole lot easier. Easier. And then they get into these routines and rhythms that carry on into their toddler phases. Yeah. And it just keeps going. And we've done other podcasts where we didn't have the temper tantrums. After a couple of times, we're like, whoa, wait a minute. We're not doing that game. Right. You learn to, OK, OK, yes. Let me touch on that for a minute, because that's huge. We literally went, I don't even know how many years, without any tantrums. None. 

Greg & Rachel (01:01:14.252)
People think tantrums are normal. No, they're not. Tantrums are the result of unmet needs. When your child reaches a point where they've been trying to tell you what their needs are through crying, because what else do they have, and you don't meet their needs and you continue to ignore them, that's when they have meltdowns and tantrums. If you can anticipate and have these routines where you know what their needs are and you meet their needs when they need them, tantrums don't occur. Like, I'm legit here. 

Greg & Rachel (01:01:43.34)
No tantrums. You don't have tantrums unless you have unmet needs. So. I'm going to make a connection here. Unmet needs as a baby can literally easily lead to tantrums. It's teenage rebellion as a teenager. Tantrums as a toddler and rebellion as a teen. Yeah. They're directly connected. It's all this stuff. My needs aren't being met. The connection's not there. 

Greg & Rachel (01:02:09.068)
And nobody could articulate it, but there's this pattern of their whole life of like, things are off, and I'm confused, I'm frustrated, my needs aren't being met. Yeah, and we've seen this, and we've heard this with all the people that we've interacted with and coached. And often people will tell us that. They'll talk about the problems and issues they're having with their teenager. And then as we hear more of the story and we hear about their early years, we're like, 

Greg & Rachel (01:02:38.252)
Well, yeah, no wonder. That's why right there. It started there. The mistrust in your relationship started because you're not meeting the needs of your child. And I see this so often and I get it because I know that parents, they don't have a manual, they don't know what they're doing, they're trying to figure it out. It's not like they're bad people. They're good people trying to do the right thing. You have all this confusing information out there. 

Greg & Rachel (01:03:06.636)
But when I see them or watch them and the way they interact with their child, and I'm just like, why? And they're trying to be good. They're trying to be strict. And they're trying to be, they're teaching adult principles and skills and expecting toddlers to toe the line. And they're trying to do the right thing. You're like, no, that will never work. Yeah. Well, one thing I see is that it's almost like parents will not interact with their child as though they're a human, a person. 

Greg & Rachel (01:03:36.492)
And so they'll do things to their child or treat them in a way that you would never treat an adult. They move them around without telling them what's going on. They just tug them over here, move them over here, or they try to force them into clothes or like all of these things. I'm like, why don't you just talk to them like a person? Why don't you tell them what's going on? Why don't you explain to them what's happening and have them opt in to being a part of it, right? And it's almost like they think, well, that's not reasonable for a two -year -old or a three -year -old. 

Greg & Rachel (01:04:06.316)
I'm like, no, it is. It works great. And if you can't even learn to convince a two -year -old of something, you really need to improve your negotiation skills here. That can easily be one of the most simplest negotiations ever if you learn how to do it. It can be so simple. But if we interact with our children as though they're humans with rights and interests and passions and needs, 

Greg & Rachel (01:04:34.028)
and communicate with them in that way and meet those needs, it makes the whole parenting process so much easier. Not that it's easy ever, but it's easier when you're not fighting against the child and you're not fighting against their needs constantly. It's almost like it's this battle that's going on where my will is going to dominate over yours, little child. And it's only because only because and I say so. Yeah. And you're like, no, you for a while need to become the servant of your child. 

Greg & Rachel (01:05:02.86)
so that they have that firm foundation and then they trust you and they respect you and they adore you and they they want to listen to you because they know like in their soul in their body in their biology that you have their best interests at heart where if you don't do that they they don't know they honestly don't know on a soul level or a biological level if you're and and this sounds 

Greg & Rachel (01:05:29.484)
cruel and heartless in a way, but they don't know if you're an enemy or a friend. Because when you they need something, you're not there to give it to them. And in fact, you are the one often keeping it from them. You're the one withholding what they need. Yeah. So anyways. Okay, there's a little bit there. Just a little connection there with a spouse too. 

Greg & Rachel (01:06:03.276)
And so it's worth it's worth thinking about. It's worth considering in our other podcasts and things we talk about with sex specifically. So if, if I'm a good guy, I'm not going to use pornography, I'm not going to use masturbation. I'm not going to commit adultery. So you, Rachel, hold the full access to your sexual fulfillment. Yep. That's it. 

Greg & Rachel (01:06:33.743)
That's it. So if I'm if I'm really committed to that if I'm really committed to marriage and monogamy Like wholeheartedly including pornography, whatever And when we talked about in another episode where masturbation can be Not always but a form of cheating or a form of not it is it's well because and this is why because if If you can't have sex with your spouse one way or the other 

Greg & Rachel (01:07:02.316)
That's often because something is off in the relationship. Something's off with her, something's off with you, something's off with your interactions together. Ultimately, sex, being able to have sex is a representation of things being right in the relationship. Because if you can get to the point where both of you want to engage in sex, that means there's a lot of things underneath that that are in place and in order. And if you can't get to that point, and so instead you masturbate or look at porn, 

Greg & Rachel (01:07:30.86)
in our mind that's a form of cheating. Because you're like, well I can't figure it out with my spouse, I guess I'll just fulfill my needs in other ways. This pseudo replacement. Right. It's garbage. Exactly. So I think this is important. You are the only one. Which, and we have to emphasize, we have to emphasize that for many women and especially women with new babies or young children, that's an overwhelming. 

Greg & Rachel (01:07:59.436)
It's often distressing or disturbing reality or thought. So after birth and the few weeks of recovery, I know that it's off the table. At least the traditional aspect. You can be creative, I suppose. So that's like, okay, so there's a path. 

Greg & Rachel (01:08:27.98)
But I also would hope and help. 

Greg & Rachel (01:08:34.636)
that you would get to recovery as quickly as possible. 

Greg & Rachel (01:08:40.14)
Because I mean, you're it. That particular need actually, and there's several, there's several needs. That's why we're married. We're married because we both have needs. Marriage is a sexual relationship for one thing, right? But sexual contract. And there's other needs too. So I would say there's several needs, human needs. And we're not talking about like staying alive, but like thriving as a human being. There's several needs and they're going to be met only with you. 

Greg & Rachel (01:09:07.98)
If you go elsewhere to meet some of your needs and I go elsewhere to meet mine, we're, we're, we're right. We're breaking the marriage contract. We're cheating it and ruining it. Like we're cheapening it. And you're, you're most definitely not getting to the extraordinary levels of marriage. So if, if you know that you are the one source, then, then my hope and my desire and my help is that you get back to recovery as quickly as possible and that you want to. 

Greg & Rachel (01:09:37.996)
be that one source again. Right. And I think it's difficult for, and we've had a lot of conversations about this and we've had some really good conversations about it lately with our older teens that are still at home about this topic because for many women and probably women listening to this podcast now, I know we've talked about it in other episodes, they don't understand how much of a biological need sex is for men. 

Greg & Rachel (01:10:06.604)
And interestingly enough, I think they don't understand that sex is actually a need for them. They just don't realize it because it's not on their radar per se. As I've learned to embrace and understand sex on a deeper level, I've realized that yeah, it's a need for me too. I just didn't know it before. I thought, you know, I'm like, yeah, sex, take it or leave it. Not realizing how critically important it is for my own health and well -being as well as for our relationship. 

Greg & Rachel (01:10:35.468)
health and well -being. And so they not having that understanding and I because I know I was this person I just thought just get over it like what's your problem Greg? Like I'm literally too busy and why we don't need it. I from my perspective like I don't need it. Why aren't you like me? Why are you not fine just doing this stuff? Like why do we have to have sex all the time? Why can't we just not have sex? Why is that not an option? 

Greg & Rachel (01:11:05.9)
And as I learned more about it, and in fact, God basically told me like, nope, that's not how it works. You need to learn how to have more sex and like more sex because that's the key to having this really deep relationship that you want. And that's the thing. Women want a man who cherishes and adores them. But for some strange reason, many of them think they can get that without the sex being a part of it. They want to have that without the sex. 

Greg & Rachel (01:11:35.916)
I'm like, it doesn't work that way. You can't have that. If you want the level of, which I have, if you want the level of cherishing and adoration and like absolute commitment and I can't even find the right words to explain it, it's going to include sex. It has to include sex. And so, right, that's a need that only I can meet for you. 

Greg & Rachel (01:12:05.26)
and then on the other side and i think this is also where women understand women have a need to connect relationally like we want to talk through things and talk about things and share worries and frustrations and and concerns with someone that can and should be their husband now too often they go to other people for that they go to their friends or their girlfriends or their their mom or someone 

Greg & Rachel (01:12:29.1)
helpful but ultimately it's not deepening the relationship. It gives all that emotional depth and power to someone else. It disperses it. It's kind of like an emotional masturbation. I mean I don't know it's kind of a weird way of explaining it but it's you're dispersing that energy in other places rather than reinvesting it back into the relationship. So when you understand that then then ultimately you be and for me that's true you are primarily 

Greg & Rachel (01:12:58.7)
my emotional outlet. Like if I need to talk to someone, you're the one I go to talk to. It's not a therapist, it's not my mom. Like I'll talk to my mom about stuff, but for the really deep things, like my most serious problems, I go to you. And that's how it should be. And it's funny too, because I've felt, and I've explained to you before, especially the ones that are like, it feels like, 

Greg & Rachel (01:13:25.932)
your entire world is unstable or the really existential questions or problems of life, it feels frightening that I need you so much. It feels overwhelming that like you are so important in that role of mental and emotional healing, you know, but I feel that in some ways that's also the other side for you with the sexual needs. 

Greg & Rachel (01:13:55.724)
I'm like that you are the one source. Right. And if you withhold that. Especially intentionally. Or I'm gone for two weeks. Yeah, if you're gone, it's like, But the other side is like, well, no, it's a big deal. It doesn't even come up on your radar. It's like, I just forgot. I forgot that I'm married and that. 

Greg & Rachel (01:14:24.332)
You have needs. You need this. And I forgot that I'm the one source. Gosh, I don't know how to adequately articulate that enough. If you want, if a wife wants her husband to be 100 % committed to her, like faithful and loyal and true, and only to her. 

Greg & Rachel (01:14:57.484)
the temptation becomes insane to look for other sources. And I think, okay, this, I want to emphasize this too, because I don't want women to misunderstand this of like, well, men are just pigs and whatever, you know, that they're just horrible people that just need to control themselves because, and I say this with all sincerity, you're one of, if not the best guy I know, legit, okay? Like the most, the highest integrity. 

Greg & Rachel (01:15:27.436)
Goodness, okay, if you guys have not listened to our podcast before, Greg was a virgin when he got married. I was not. He's never masturbated, okay, and we know that this is an anomaly here, right? He's never looked at porn intentionally. You've seen it accidentally. Like you are a good person, a sincerely good man. Legit. And the very fact that if you go two weeks without sex, your temptation, 

Greg & Rachel (01:15:56.652)
increases your and it's not like I guess we can use the word desire to look at porn or look at women increases that to me says it's not it's biological it's built in it's not something that you're doing because you're a you know a questionable guy right it has nothing to do with that it's it's just built into the biology and it becomes and that's that's like two weeks I mean 

Greg & Rachel (01:16:25.752)
it was like two years I can't even imagine right so the temptation level just increases and increases over time if I am NOT able or willing to fulfill your sexual needs because I am your only source because you are a good guy and you want to be faithful and you want to be monogamous and you want to be invested in our relationship and not in something else 

Greg & Rachel (01:16:54.188)
I want you to be the only source. Exactly. Right. And so if I want that and you want that, which I do, obviously, there has to be a mutual agreement, commitment, understanding, understanding and action. I mean, results don't lie. Right. So if I guess that's what I want to emphasize. Like if women really truly want that, then they have to be it. 

Greg & Rachel (01:17:23.884)
And if men want it, then they have to earn it. Which we're going to talk about in our next episode, I think, because as I hinted already. And this woman specifically, she said, I've been listening to your podcast. I've been trying to improve our sex life. But now basically, my husband is my roommate with benefits. He gets all the benefits. And I'm not getting what I need. I need that mental and emotional connection. And he's just clueless. So we'll talk about 

Greg & Rachel (01:17:49.604)
We're not, you know, we recognize that this is a complex issue and it's not just about being some prostitute for your husband, right? It has to be a two -way street here. It has to go both ways. Yes. Because otherwise you're just unfulfilled and it's, it's, and here's what happens on a biological level for women, because it still happens for me. And I tell Craig these things because we find it so fascinating. I'd then just feel used. Like, 

Greg & Rachel (01:18:19.244)
I had sex with him and he's still being rude to me and he's not listening to me and he's not He's not there for me. I feel used Like he got what he needed and I didn't get what I needed so You know, it's complex. Are you saying you saying and not listening? Yeah all the time. No No, I'm saying that Hypothetically. Yeah. Well and even just the other night I was explaining to you we had this little 

Greg & Rachel (01:18:45.036)
It was kind of a playful interaction, but it was soon after sex, which is interesting. Basically what happened what happened disagreed with something Rachel said. You disagreed with me? How dare you? In our home, disagreeing with the Queen is strictly verboten. No, it wasn't. And it wasn't just a disagreement. It was, well, OK, we've talked about this before. Women are way more sensitive to tone and to how things are said. And for some reason, I feel like maybe it's that way. 

Greg & Rachel (01:19:15.596)
close after sex especially. It's almost like the afterglow and so if it's too close after sex I'm even more sensitive and so if you disagree with me in a tone that I'm how dare you I we just had sex what how could you disagree with me in that tone? Or if we did it well I was gonna say shortly before but there wouldn't be 

Greg & Rachel (01:19:34.924)
Anything if it was before well, and that was the joke because we joked about it I said you wouldn't dare talk to me before sex like that because Lesson my your chances, right? There is something to it that even you Instinctively know like that would lessen my chances here. So I'm gonna not speak in that tone So there is something to it, you know I'm saying and so yeah, it's it's complex. I mean, there's a lot to it and you know 

Greg & Rachel (01:20:05.004)
We've done a lot of episodes about it, so definitely go back and listen to them. If you're feeling like, wow, what is all this? I need to know more. Then listen to those episodes. But for this one, this question was so awesome. Thank you again. Adding a baby adds a ton of complexity. But that's a good good that's good thing.  a chance to rise. Adding children, having a child changes you in a f 

Greg & Rachel (01:20:34.604)
- 

Greg & Rachel (01:20:34.724)
Well, it can. It can change you and should change you in a fundamental way that you become better. Well, even Jordan Peterson says, like, you can't truly become an adult until you become a parent. Because that's when someone else's life literally depends on you. And you're striving to be a good parent. There are people who have kids who haven't grown up. But take this, the fact that you're listening to this, you're one of those people, you're taking each child as another opportunity to level up in each phase of childhood, each phase of being a parent. 

Greg & Rachel (01:21:03.532)
So here's another way for me to increase my capacity. And if, if not only as a parent, but as a spouse as well. Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So if, if we'll take on that approach fundamentally, like anytime there's a challenge, this is an opportunity for me to increase my capacity. I can do more before I was able to take care of myself and take care of my spouse. Now. 

Greg & Rachel (01:21:27.276)
I have to figure out how to take care of a baby, take care of myself, and take care of a spouse. And then later, now two kids, myself and a spouse. and we just did a, we started a business. and we just got another house. wow, I got this other thing here in the community. Now we got another kid. I have to figure out how to be more capable. A lot of people are just like, I can't do it all. Because before I felt maxed out, and now you add stuff, I'm out. Right. And they just stop. And that's. 

Greg & Rachel (01:21:53.804)
And that's when things get neglected. Which too often, I think, comes down to the spouse. The spouse gets neglected because people are going to work on their business and they're going to take care of their kids and they're going to do their church work. But my spouse, they just get the leftovers, if anything. So wife leans into the kids, husband leans into work, and they just kind of grow apart over time. Living separate lives. 

Greg & Rachel (01:22:21.164)
And that's not how it's meant to be. Because if you recognize, like you said, that these obstacles are actually opportunities, you can use them to help grow you closer. And I think that if there was one thing that really was a pivotal moment in our relationship, we've always had a great relationship. But I think it got better at a pivotal moment when I basically said, why do we need sex? I'm too busy. We have businesses and all these kids. 

Greg & Rachel (01:22:50.604)
Like, why does this have to be a part of our life? Instead of just, you know, saying, huh, whatever, I'm not gonna worry about it. Instead, I leaned into it and I found out more and I learned more and I researched and I studied and learned about sex and then used your desire for more sex or at least probably at that point it was some sex, right? Your desire for that became an opportunity instead of an obstacle that I just saw as an annoyance. 

Greg & Rachel (01:23:18.668)
That changed everything. That's what helped us to then improve and grow our relation to extraordinary levels. So kudos to you for this question and for thinking about it beforehand and for wondering what to do about it and for, I mean, be aware that, yeah, there will be challenges, but if you learn to embrace them and to enjoy the journey and to see how you can make those obstacles, 

Greg & Rachel (01:23:48.492)
opportunities and you can you know just be there and learn from what's happening to you and be curious about it and gain awareness about it all of it can be to your growth and benefit and improvement and I think that's the point really I mean that's the point that's the point of marriage that's the point of parenting is to come face to face with the obstacles and say wow how can this help make me a better person 

Greg & Rachel (01:24:15.756)
And just as a super simple strategy, maybe right now, while you're listening to this and you're thinking clear and you got some sleep and you had some food and you think they're good, you might go ahead on your schedule, go out several weeks from your delivery date and put little notes and reminders and date night and be sexy and cuddle and dress up like. 

Greg & Rachel (01:24:43.82)
And for husbands, like same. You know, if you know there's things that she loves, put those things into your reminders, into your notes, into your calendars, into your alerts, into your alarms. Because you'll forget. I think so often in life, success in life comes down to remembering. It's not that you don't know, it's that you forget. You're crazy. And you're listening to this thing and no, no, no, I will totally remember. I'm going to remember remember I need to help her. I will remember. 

Greg & Rachel (01:25:12.332)
Well, no, man, four weeks after she delivers, you'll have a rough day and you'll come home venting and ranting and raving and like a big baby. And she'll start crying. Dude, you just blew it. And afterwards, you'd be like, I totally did. I forgot. I knew better, but I forgot. Like, do yourself a favor and put that stuff on your calendar. 

Greg & Rachel (01:25:37.42)
Like just throw reminders on there and it might not be, you know, you might be like, okay, five weeks after like, just put a foot massage on there. It might not happen exactly then, but you're like, yeah, duh. I need to be coming home and giving her a foot massage. She's probably exhausted. Maybe a back massage or carrying the baby around all the time. Like what can I do to help out or just, just. 

Greg & Rachel (01:25:59.532)
And again, a lot of guys just need reminders. You might need to put on your calendar. If you get off at work at five, you might put a little alert on there to go home and do the dishes. Because you might just not think about it. So right now you're like, do the dishes. And then the next day, put a little reminder on there to help with the laundry or whatever. Do yourself a favor and remind yourself to proactively do the things that help. 

Greg & Rachel (01:26:28.46)
All right, love you guys. Reach upward for it.