#268 I’m Tired of Being a Lonely “Roommate With Benefits” For My Husband

Greg & Rachel (00:00.772)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. I'm really stoked about this topic and questions. It was a great, we asked, so two episodes ago we asked for some feedback about marriage and we got it. About what bothers you in your marriage. Right, because I wanted, we wanted to talk about it. So this is perfect. And I love, love when listeners are able to...

I guess I imagine they use the mental process like, hey, what is it that's off? And then they can articulate it. I love that. It's so powerful when we can acknowledge and then articulate the thing that we would like to be better. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's wrong or it's bad or you're ungrateful or anything like that. It's just like, hey, I would love it.

if this were better. And that's the formula for an extraordinary life. Yes. Saying, I would love it if this were better. Well, and I think that not enough people realize that that's the formula because we've been taught and conditioned, and it's a good thing, it can be a good thing to not complain and not to focus on the negative and all that stuff, which is true. But the irony that we've learned is that unless you do focus on the things you don't like and don't want,

you can't really change them for the better. And so there has to be this balance of, we call it a dichotomy, it's the yin and the yang, it's a two -sided coin, it's divine discontent. There has to be this element of discontent, of being discontented with what you do have in order to make it better or to get what you actually want. And part of that is focusing on what you don't want.

one of the things that you love to say is you get what you tolerate. And so, yeah. And so if you continue to tolerate things you don't like, you'll just keep getting those things. And so at some point you have to say, no, I'm not going to tolerate that anymore. Whether that's in your marriage or your finances or your fitness, your family, you have to stop tolerating things that you don't want in your life. And that's actually then how you get the things you do want. It doesn't, for some reason, it doesn't work the other way around. You have to stop tolerating.

Greg & Rachel (02:21.092)
what you don't like in order to get what you actually do like and want. And this seems a little tricky because if you're striving to be a good person, you don't want to complain. You don't want to nag. You don't want to be pointing out the problems all the time. Right. And that's true. It's good. You don't want to be a complainer. You don't be nagging. You don't want to be constantly focused on the problems. That's true. So that's great. Kudos to you. But there's this art.

to not complaining, being grateful, being happy, and still wanting it to improve. Yeah. And there's a mental, emotional finesse to this, where you're like, I love my life, I'm stoked, I can wake up and sing, everything is awesome, every morning, and yet still say, well, this needs a little improvement.

Or I'm sick and sometimes it's I'm sick and tired of that. Yeah. Like I'm done with that. You draw the proverbial line in the sand and you say no more. That right there is no more. I've been tolerating it too long. I've been putting it with too long. I'm going to put up a barrier where I see couples struggle with this. Actually, you see in the workplace too. You see it in church. You see it everywhere. When it's between two people, they want to draw the line in the sand and say I'm done.

I'm done tolerating this, no more, this is unacceptable. We get so upset right then, we get all fired up and angry and bitter or whatever, it's built up. So then when it's time to implement or when it's time to say something, which things need to be said, we often don't do it with much tact or diplomacy. It's like, bleh. And so then the recipients, usually not very...

Receptive. Exactly. Is the right word. But it has to happen. So Rachel's going to read the question. Well, wait. First, I want to use an example that's coming to my mind while you're saying this because this is a principle we live by all the time. I mean, we're currently sitting here in our recording studio in our home slash resort in Portugal. We live, I mean, the closest beach is eight minutes away.

Greg & Rachel (04:47.108)
Other we have so many amazing beaches within 20 to 30 minutes like countless amazing beaches We live an amazing place in an incredible house in with like animals like all the things that we want and Have dreamt about for years and as you were talking about discontent. I vividly remember a moment probably maybe now

four or five years ago when we were in our house, maybe even longer ago, it might've been 2019, 2020 right before COVID, we'd moved into a house in Georgia and you were just discontented. In fact, I mean, many of you in our family were discontented the whole time we lived in Georgia. And I remember having this moment of like, why can't you just be happy? We're here in a house just - The area where we lived was one of the most boring spots on the planet. Well, I mean, I'm gonna explain that. I was gonna explain that.

like we just need to be happy. Why can't you just be happy here and just make the most of it? Like I know it's boring, but like find a way to enjoy it. We have a great family, have a great life. Now, unbeknownst to both of us, that was very divine because it was a great place for us to be during COVID. It was a great situation for COVID. Like we had a great COVID experience and you know, all things considered. But...

If it hadn't have been for your discontent and the discontent of some of our children, we might still be there. Because it's easier to be there. It's easier to stay somewhere you are. It's easier to not change, to not move. We would not be where we are now if not for that discontent. And that discontent drives the pursuit of dreams.

And so we have to remember that ultimately that's what it is about. That's what it can be about. Now, you can obviously go about it in the wrong way and it can just become a wedge or a source of contention. But in the right way, it drives your dreams and it makes them possible because you're like, no, and that's what you said. You're like, I'm grateful for everything, but it's just unacceptable to me to live in a place that's boring.

Greg & Rachel (07:03.428)
I want to live in a place that's exciting and fulfilling and where there's lots of things to do, the things that you like to do. And that was, Georgia was not that place. And so now here we are in an amazing place where there's mountain biking and paddle boarding and kayaking and surfing and I mean, on and on and on, all these things. But it's only because of discontent that we've got to this place. It propels you forward. Exactly. If you allow it and fuel it.

Propels you forward to the things you want and I think that's worth touching on for a minute there, especially in this context like why not just Be okay with the way things are yeah, because everyone's like bloom where you plant you're planted and you know Just be grateful for what you have and stop focusing on what you don't have and the vote the vast majority people will tell you just Be content with what you have be grateful for what you have. It could be a lot worse. You have a good life Which is all true a good marriage. You have a good family

How dare you complain? Because other people have it so much worse. That's all true. It's all true. But Rachel and I are crazy enough to believe that... As good as it is, it can be way better. It can be better. And if you personally have your own unique ideal, why not pursue it? Yeah, why settle? Why not achieve your ideals?

And that doesn't mean achieve perfection either. Right. Because that's not possible. There are, well, some people believe there are things to do in rural Georgia. Baseball's big there. Shopping. I'm not one of those people. So, I mean, there are people doing things, but I'm like, no, that's not for me. So if you're a person that loves the mountains and you want to live in the mountains,

then my invitation is figure out a way to live in the mountains. If you love the beach, if you love the big city, like wherever, if that just makes you feel alive and excited, figure out a way to be there. Yeah, because I mean we've traveled to and lived in 55 countries for me. I've learned it's not true to say bloom where you're planted. Location makes a difference. Places...

Greg & Rachel (09:25.7)
different. They have different energies, different spirits, different like they speak to people in different ways and when you can find that now there's no perfect place but when you can find a place that speaks to you more and enlivens you more that's a good place to be. It's not gonna be perfect there's still gonna be challenges and you know there's still life you have to face but it definitely helps you feel more alive when you're in the right place. Exactly. Okay now that was our little detour about that discontent.

Now I'm going to read the question that's related to the topic today, which is about not being a roommate with your spouse, especially if as the man, the husband, you're the roommate with the benefits and the wife feels like she's not getting the benefits or the things that she needs from the marriage, which is not a good place to be. Okay, but this... In many of the men I have worked with...

Greg & Rachel (10:28.324)
to really serve and love and cherish their wives and provide all the

Greg & Rachel (10:45.503)
Psychological stuff that she needs. So it goes both ways. The vast majority of the time the women reciprocate. There are occasions where the woman gets all her needs met and the husband feels like, she's getting all the benefits. We're roommates with benefits for her. Yes. And I still feel like I'm a single guy when it comes to sex specifically. So it goes both ways. But I think it's definitely.

Predominantly more one -sided. Yes, and I feel like we have definitely addressed that side of it in some of our other episodes And so I'm excited today to address this other side of it because as she's well, I'll read it like she's she's trying to meet those needs but it's still feeling She's lonely. She's not getting her. This is like the Epic fail right indictment. Okay, and on that note though. I hope husbands and wives both listen to this and I think sometimes we're like

just listen to this like I don't want my husband to hear this. Whoa that's just some real honest talk. He might feel bad. He might get offended whatever. You guys know or if you're new to us Rachel and I are advocates of straight talk. It is so important to just have honest talk and just be straight with each other. Like hey this thing I need this.

or this is really bothering me. Let's talk about this. Let's address this issue. We have to talk about the issue because too many of us are skirting around it and we don't ever bring it up. We don't actually say it. Well, and we keep tolerating what we don't want going back to that idea. Like as long as you continue to tolerate that, which is essentially what you are doing in an effort to not be confrontational or to not be mean quote unquote or critical, you're essentially tolerating something that's not okay. It's not.

It's not fulfilling for you. You're not your best self. Your relationship is not the best it can be because you continue to tolerate this thing in your life. So yeah, let's not do that. Okay. I've been listening for a long time. Thank you for the podcast for championing greatness in personal and family living. It's been a process and I'm nowhere near perfect, but I've been trying to clean up my side of the street and improve our marriage and family. I love how she worded it. Clean up my side of the street.

Greg & Rachel (13:04.932)
Because of your podcast and recommended reading, I've realized that my husband needs physical intimacy more than I do. And I've tried to step up and make sure that his needs are met. My husband is a great provider. He loves me and he does sweet things to show me his love. Okay, well, pause right there. That's awesome. That is awesome. So he's a great provider. He loves her. He does sweet things to show that he loves her. So...

We have to point out from the beginning here, this guy's not getting thrown under the bus. He's a good guy, doing a lot of good things. It's the little refinements now that we're focusing on. He's always adored me and loved me even at my worst. I can overlook our normal marriage issues, dirty clothes on the floor, unashamedly farting or burping all the time, and hobbies that take tons of time, like hunting. It's always hunting season. Stop there.

Greg & Rachel (14:04.42)
She says, I can overlook those normal things.

Greg & Rachel (14:14.276)
And I'm the man here, obviously. I'm like, no. No, even as a guy, I'm like, no, I'm not going to tolerate that. No, man. Pick up your clothes. It's not that hard to get them in the hamper and then do your laundry and the belching and the farting and like, OK, that's that's funny when you're like a teenager and like, ha, it was funny. And you laugh at it and giggle like.

At some point you're like, no man, that's not classy.

And I know when the guys are like, well, I'm not classy. I'm a rough, tough guy. I'm a caveman. Well, whatever. You don't have to just... And we all pass gas, whatever. But like, you don't have to be nasty. It's just refinement and being classy. We should be gentlemen. So even if we're like tough warriors and we're out hunting and we're fighting, we can still be gentlemen warriors. Well, and I think that, you know, obviously some of that's been lost in society where...

we don't think, I shouldn't do this in front of ladies type thing. That's an old idea. But I think specifically, if your wife doesn't like it, don't do it in front of her. You know what I mean? What wife would like that you leave your dirty laundry around and that you belch and fart? I can't think of any woman's like, dude, that was sexy. That was a good one, bro. It's just not. And is it a deal breaker? Nope. It's not. Could you tolerate it? Sure.

But if you want to add a little bit of spark to the marriage, don't do it. It's so simple. It's so easy not to do it. To the clothes or the laundry, and we're going to get to hunting here in a second. It's so easy. So a little bit of refinement, a little bit of teeny tiny extra effort on your part makes it just a little bit, this is nice. Because at some point, you know, especially after we're 23 years of marriage,

Greg & Rachel (16:15.62)
30 years of marriage, it really does come down to the small things. Like you've done the big things. The big things have been done. So at some point it's really just the small little tweaks and refinements and improvements of like, even after all this time, you recognize that that matters to me and you do it, you know? And it's not the big things anymore. It's the small things that help show that you still care about someone. And especially when...

especially because a theme, our theme, is constantly improving.

You can't always make huge improvements because at some point that's just not possible. It is the small things that you're constantly improving. It's the little teeny tweaks that are where the improvement's happening. And so that actually becomes the focus. That actually becomes the point. Like what are the small things? It's easy to do, easy not to do, right? But over time, there's a fantastic book called The Slight Edge. There's also one that's a similar principle, The Compound Effect.

that over time it's the small things that either build up to extraordinary results or that lead to actually, you know, blah, or mediocre or worse. I've been leaving the laundry out for years and I've gotten used to it. But like, then it's... But if it still bothers you, then to me, and we talked about that before in another episode, maybe the last one or the last one before, but if there's things like that that are bothering you, yeah, you can overlook them.

But you could also just say, you know what, you're an adult, put your clothes in the hamper, like I'm done picking up after you. You know, like I love you, but I'm done. I'm not tolerating that anymore. And the belching and the farting needs to be somewhere else. Go to the bathroom. If it's pretty chronic and consistent, my guess is your diet needs to be cleaned up. And that's something we always look at. Like if we're regularly burping and farting, something's off with your diet. Because when we eat a clean diet,

Greg & Rachel (18:17.572)
that's not happening very often exactly now the hunting thing and she says well you know hobby tons of time and hobbies and his particular hobby is hunting and I understand that I understand the desire to have hobbies and whether it's cars or toys or trucks or motorcycles or boats or and that's a good thing fishing those are good things but they have to be because you're not single life is about family

Yeah, because you're not single, because you have kids, because you have grandkids, you have to be cognizant of that. And we are advocates of pursuing personal hobbies. But we're maybe even more of advocates of finding hobbies you can do together. Find things you can do. So you can have your thing, but...

When your wife says, it's always hunting season. Now she may, you know, and again, we're hypothetical, the hypothetical wife might feel like it's always hunting season. Really, it's not that bad. Or maybe it is. But like, are we?

Which way are we facing is what I'm asking. Are you facing towards the hunting or are you facing towards your wife? What are you pursuing? Which way are you leaning? Is your is hunting getting more time and attention and focus and thought and money and resources? Then your wife.

That's where the rubber hits the road, fellas. That's where the problems lie. Right. And it's not that the hunting itself is a bad thing. It's like, if you find yourself constantly thinking about, strategizing about, I mean, you're so into your thing, whether it's fixing up your rig or the latest, greatest fishing rod.

Greg & Rachel (20:22.052)
Again, nothing wrong with those things, but like which way you're leaning, where's your focus? Where's your attention? That's going to be really relevant for the rest of this conversation. It's always hunting season, but after 30 years of marriage, I'm lonely. When he's home, he's not home. I want to write down the indictments here. Should I keep going for the moment? Yes. So lonely. Okay. I think it's so important that we.

We have these conversations with our spouses or we even think about, I have my coaching clients do this. I'm like, we're gonna write this down. I'm coaching this couple and I was like, you write yours down to the wife and husband, you write yours down and we're gonna compare, we're gonna talk here. So the indictment here is I'm lonely. That to me is a big problem. Like I never ever, ever want you to come to me and say, Greg, I'm lonely. You what?

Right? Okay, keep going. When he's home, he's not home. He's on the computer playing games. When we are on a date, hold up. He's not on the date. This is simple math. 30 years of marriage, probably at least 20 years old when you got married. It puts a gentleman in his 50s playing games.

I knew you were going to go off on that one. yeah. I got a rant about this.

Okay, and I hope he's listening. So brother, to you sir, little boys play games. And little boys leave their laundry on the floor. And little boys run off and play in the woods, forgetting about their commitments and their responsibilities. And I'm saying that with love, but I'm saying it frank. Like, too many men are acting like boys.

Greg & Rachel (22:19.62)
And most of the men I talk to they admit, like they'll be first and they'll be like, yeah, that's not real manly of me. That's not my best self. So as your best self brother, do you walk around farting, burping, throwing your crows down, spending all your time out there and playing video games? Playing? Yeah.

And we've talked a lot about this because, you know, people are like, well, what's wrong with games? It's not, whatever. They're fun. And yeah, OK, all of that's true. But when you look at it from a bigger perspective, one, many of the reasons, one of the main reasons that people

boys and men specifically are spending so much time on games nowadays is because they actually have a lack of adventure and excitement in their own life they're not pursuing like men want to that's why the games are so attractive is because they're doing something that men want to be doing they're pursuing a goal and outcome and they're achieving levels and getting rewards and all these things if they're strategically designed to work with the psychology of men especially the humans

And if that's not happening in your actual life, then the game has just become a pseudo life for that. It's just a big fake replacement. Yeah. Besides the fact that the pure math of the exchange rate, like if you're playing games, that automatically means there's something else you're not doing that you probably should be doing, one of which is investing into your relationship or investing into your children's relationships. Like there's so many other things.

Like, and one, you and I obviously are unique people, but I can't even imagine being able to have the time to play a game. That's how busy and full my life is with pursuing real life goals. And I know it's even more true for you. There's no time for games. Like games would just be a complete interruption to our great life, to an extraordinary life.

Greg & Rachel (24:25.796)
So on that level, that's another consideration. What are you giving up? What are you not pursuing? What are you not achieving because you're playing games? Who are you not becoming because that is taking up your time and attention? So the hard research here, and I would say this for anybody and everybody listening, if you have devices in your home, then

Which is pretty much everybody listening. I'm purposely throwing that out. So if you have a device in your home, then I would highly, highly, highly recommend. In fact, it would be a requirement for me, and it is in our family. Like, if you want devices, then you got to read these books first. And one of them is Glow Kids. And the other one we just finished is The Anxious Generation. They are phenomenal. And they just give you all the research and a very enjoyable read. Well, I would also add.

Greg & Rachel (25:22.532)
Wait for it. Boys by Dr. Boys Adrift by Dr. Leonard Sacks. Yes, fantastic. The research is so clear and he shares it all very thoroughly in the next generation. Video games make boys and men less successful. So if you are playing games, you are less successful. Now, some of you will say, well, it's because I'm already successful.

things are good, I have a good income, I have a good job, things are good.

Like, no man, but you're leaving potential on the table. Not that you necessarily have to pursue more money or more whatever. Like now you're in a stage of life. You should be pursuing impact, contribution. What's your legacy? What's your legacy? What's the song you're going to sing? Well, one thing here, your wife feels lonely. So that's the first thing to address. And then I bet if we talk to your kids, they would probably love a little more influence. Your grandkids or whatever. Like there's more to you have more to give, brother.

All of you gentlemen, you have more to give. Playing games is keeping you from really living and it's limiting your success. Okay. When we are on a date, he's not on a date. He's looking at his phone. When we go on vacation together, he's not with me. He's on the iPad.

I've expressed my need for, no, first of all, this is common. Like, we've heard this. And wives hate it. They hate it when their men are on their devices.

Greg & Rachel (26:58.596)
I've expressed my need for his attention, but I don't feel heard. Habits are deeply rooted on both sides, and we fall into our same patterns of interaction. I have become more autonomous, which he hasn't liked because I'm less available. OK, this is the whole idea of collusion. Yes. And collusion is where it's your coping mechanism, it's the vehicle you choose.

It's essentially engaging in behaviors which cause more of the thing you don't want to happen. And so he's like, he's doing his thing, does this and that and the other. He's always on his own. So in order to not just go crazy, you become more autonomous in this case. So there you go. Like it's just, it's one step further apart living separate lives. Right. And he leans into this. He's like, well, I'll just hunt a little longer.

because she's doing her thing and another step apart, another step apart. And this is how couples create this massive gap between themselves. I've gone back to school online and I go to religious practices alone and I find my own projects to work on. We recently went... There's so much there. There's so much there. It's like...

because of just little frustration. Well, and here's the irony. And I think that this is something important that men need to understand because it sounds like they spend time together. They're checking the boxes. He's at home with her. He's on a date with her. He's going on vacation with her. But what

many people don't realize is that men and women have different scoreboards. And if you go on a date with your wife but you're on a phone, guess what? That doesn't count. That doesn't count on her scoreboard. In fact, it's now a withdrawal. So instead of you making a deposit into her emotional bank account, you've actually made a withdrawal. But you think, I took my wife on a date. And yeah, I'm good. And she's like, no, you're not. You actually, I feel worse now.

Greg & Rachel (29:07.332)
because we went on a date and you didn't pay attention to me. So even though he's doing all the right things per se, she's feeling more and more lonely because they're not counting on her scoreboard. And as a result, she's like, well, I'm just going to do more of these things by myself. I'm going to find other ways to find fulfillment because I'm not getting it from the things we're doing together. And I'm not just going to sit around and do nothing while you kind of do your thing. Right. So then it's.

Or sit around and sit around and do nothing while you're, while we're together physically but not really together. Because, and I assume it's same for men and women, but maybe it's not. If you're in the same presence physically but not together mentally and emotionally, it doesn't count for a woman. You may be together but you're not together. And in fact it's worse, you feel like you're more apart because you're together physically but not together.

mentally you're not in the anxious generation he talks about embodiment you're not embodied in the same space you're not occupying the same attention and so the way to test that is to just remove the devices to remove to remove anything and just just be well essentially he basically says in the anxious generation that if you have the devices and they're like almost

Usually even if you just have them in the room, you're not as embodied as if they're not in the room In fact, they did a Dean Yeah, they did research with students and they performed way better when the devices were just not around then even if they were on silent in the same room So removing the devices is really the only way to be fully embodied But at the very least they need to be like on silent or airplane mode or whatnot that's the only way to have full embodiment so as a

husband specifically because usually I hear this more from the wives complaining about it than the other way around. I don't there's not many men complaining about their wives being on their devices but it happens. That if you're on your phone and with your spouse she doesn't count it as you being with her. You have to be off your phone to be with her because what she wants most, what a woman wants most is your attention, your focus. That's what she wants.

Greg & Rachel (31:27.972)
She mentions that he doesn't like her being gone. He doesn't like that she's being more autonomous. Right. Even though, because to him that probably counts that they're together even if she's on his phone. He wants to be with her. He wants time with her. And like, you're in the room. And I can see from a man's point of view of like, okay, we're home, we're here together. And I'm just going to do some reading over here. I'm going to play my game, but we're here. We're together. And that counts. She's gone.

Right. And so you can just see the little bit of frustrations. Again, good marriage. OK, we also have to address this. 30 marriage, 30 years, the kids are probably all out, right? They're all grown up and out. Potentially. Yeah. For the most, we're going to guess here. Or even if you have older kids, you're at a different stage of life. So maybe the finances are pretty well taken care of. Kids are up and out and maybe doing marriage, doing things. And you touch bases here and there with kids and grandkids.

But what do you, and this is for all of you, and if you're younger, think about it, plan for it. If you're getting to that stage, what are you going to do with your time and attention?

Too many people stop setting goals and stop chasing dreams. Because in our society, we very much have this path laid out. But it's only laid out to about 40. Yeah, we've heard that from a lot of people because they're like, I've achieved all my goals. I did all the things. I went to school. I got a degree. I got a job. I got married. I had kids. And now I bought the house.

Now what? Like what's after that? There is nothing after that except retirement, but it's so vague. And so people, they do, they kind of are like, well, I don't know what to do now. Where's the gap between 45 and 65? Because they have their eyes on retirement, whatever that means. It's just some random thing. Like, well, just stop working and just what am I going to do? And most, a lot of people just die within a couple of years of retirement. They have no purpose.

Greg & Rachel (33:33.156)
But nothing else to do. So I would say, let's shift this. From 45 forward, what exciting, wonderful, great things are you going to do for the rest of your mortal life? What contribution are you going to make? What legacy are you going to leave to your kids and grandkids? What impact and influence are you going to have? That's what we need to be focusing on as a society, especially, to give more meaning and purpose and influence to.

the older generation who can have a big impact on the growing, rising generation. I plan on staying busy, fully realizing that the busyness will look different at each stage and not busy for the sake of busyness and not so busy. We've never done this in our life. We've always been so intentional, so deliberate about living that we're never like crazy, crazy busy and

Neglecting each other the kids are just running ragged and stressed that we've never done that but we're productive So I'm gonna use that word instead of busy. I'm gonna be productive as long as I'm alive. Mm -hmm and productivity I'll redefine it through different stages, but there's never a time where I'm like, I Think I'll just sit around play video games Or I think I'll just sit here and watch other men play sports

Greg & Rachel (34:59.623)
That's never, ever, ever clicked with me. Even as a kid, I'm like, why would I sit here and play a game or watch somebody else play when I could be out there playing? Like, I'm gonna go live.

watch other people live. It's a framework that's helped been very helpful for me. Okay, she says we recently went camping where there was no cell phone or internet coverage. I had his undivided attention for one night before everyone else arrived and it was wonderful. We talked like we did when we were dating and I didn't feel like an afterthought. There it is.

Greg & Rachel (35:45.028)
I think in some ways that's part of maybe the saddest part of our society nowadays because all of the benefits and good things that technology has brought, what we have lost is this undivided attention. And in fact, I even heard something on a different note where as humans, we used to have a lot more downtime. We used to have time when we just sat and thought and did nothing and like looked at the trees or whatever.

they the paper or whatever I read was talking about how that was very important this diffused thinking for processing and understanding and comprehending like all of these processes go high go on behind the scenes in our brains when we have that sort of time and now we just don't partly because if any of us have a spare moment we pick up our phone to check the next

the news or the Instagram or email, whatever. Like we're constantly, constantly inputting things into our brain and have very little time for just nothing. Just reflection, reflection, creativity. We're just, we're not getting that. And especially that's showing up in our relationships or something like this, you know, we get to go out and there's no phone service and we get to actually be with each other and enjoy each other's company. And that, that just doesn't happen anymore because

The devices are always there. And yet, how easy is it, watch, like in seconds, I could pick up my phone, slide down the top, hit airplane mode, boom. Now we're, quote, in a place that doesn't have service. That's true. It's so easy, and yet so rarely done. Yeah. And I think we can all picture that.

camping scene where they're out in a remote place, no devices, no service. Everything's simple. There's a fire, they're sitting on a log, and just being a couple. That's awesome. And that's ultimately, I think, that's the opposite of loneliness. That's what we want.

Greg & Rachel (38:07.556)
both sexes, but especially women, they want that. They want that sort of undivided attention where you are not an afterthought. Like you're the most interesting thing at that moment. Besides maybe the fire, you're the one getting the attention. You're the one being looked at. You're the one being listened to. That's what women crave. They want that more than anything else. That's how they know that they feel special and important and that they matter to you.

And so if that's not happening on a daily basis...

then yeah, obviously you're gonna feel lonely. I received a text from a wife several days ago and she just, just one little sentence, I don't feel loved and cherished.

like, what an indictment. And now add these ones. I feel lonely. I feel like I'm an afterthought. Right? Yowzers. If there's one message I could share with husbands, it would be, it would be these, this, this message and what you just said. You just said it very well. Wives want and need.

our attention and focus and not just in passing words, not just in pretense or saying it, but showing it.

Greg & Rachel (39:48.356)
You asked for a list of things that bother your listeners about their marriages. This is at the top of my list. I don't want to be roommates with benefits. He gets sex and I'm a financially well -kept woman. I want to be partners. So that's... I mean, so there's lots of roles, right? There's lots of roles in marriage. And he's providing. That's awesome.

Like they can't be dismissed. That's great. And he's doing things to show his love. That's fantastic. And she's now leaning in and giving him more sex. Also great. But what's coming to the surface now, which is so great, is there's still some other things that feel unmet. Yes. I wouldn't have vented to you had you not requested feedback. But I appreciate the opportunity to articulate my thoughts. I would appreciate your input. I can't change anyone but me.

But I also can't envision living the rest of our lives forever being this disconnected. I don't think he has a problem with the way things are, or at least he hasn't said anything. My complete list of what bothers me in our marriage is I want to have priority and at least be more important than electronics and games. I want him to lead out in spiritual and family matters. I want to have shared goals and direction in our marriage. And I want to be spoken to respectively

rather than dismissively and I don't want to be ignored. Wow, so good. Okay, will you read those last few? Those are worth repeating, memorizing, writing down somewhere. This is so good. I want to have priority and be more important than the electronics and games. I want them to lead out spiritually and in the family. I want to have shared goals and direction in our marriage. So something you're pursuing together.

and I want to be spoken to respectfully rather than dismissively, and I don't want to be ignored.

Greg & Rachel (41:44.967)
Wow. Wow. Those five things are huge. Now we got to help out the gentleman here a little bit because sometimes they define those things differently. And in all sincerity, they might be like, I don't do those things. They get together with a group of men. They're like, brother, I am never disrespectful to my wife. And then she's like, I just wish you'd respect me more. Like, wait, what? Right. What are you talking about? Like I.

pride myself on being respectful. And she's like, you don't respect me. In the world. So you have to get back to the scoreboard differences and the definition differences, which we've talked about a lot. So that's going to require some conversations. So it's taking those five things that she articulated so well and sitting down and having a conversation and say, okay, what does that mean to you? Like outline this for me, spell it out.

And I know a lot of women are like, are you kidding me? I honestly have to spell that out for you. And that's part of the bother we hear a lot from some wives. They're like, seriously, I have to tell you everything I do? I don't want to have to tell you. Yeah. I just want you to know. If you want me to do it a specific way, you have got to tell me what that is. You should just know what it is. You should just know what to say and how to say it and when to say it. I got nothing. Yeah.

Mother's Day be special or my birthday or anniversary be special. And this is what special means. This, this, this and this. Because otherwise I think, I know what special means for our anniversary. But that's what special to me means or me like guessing. And you're like, thanks. That was thoughtful. But not really what I was thinking. Right. So spell it out. Spell it out. Be clear. What does that mean? This just reminds me of recently. I mean, it was Father's Day this month and I sent. We were apart.

I was in the US and you were here in Portugal and I sent you a message because you had been asking me for a few weeks about buying a lawnmower at our resort property here. Because we need one. But I was like we need a lot of other things first. We need to get all of our rooms ready to rent on Airbnb. And so I thought we don't need a lawnmower. It's not the highest priority. And so finally I thought maybe I should get him a lawnmower for.

Greg & Rachel (44:06.788)
Father's Day because he's been asking and so I sent a message and like would you like a lawnmower for Father's Day? And he was like no would you like a broom for Mother's Day? I was like no. But it's just being able to be open about that and ask and tell the other person like yes I would like that or like no that's a horrible idea don't do that for me please. That's a perfect example yeah because you're sitting there apart thinking you know what he's been asking for weeks.

Greg & Rachel (44:39.892)
But the other thing you said was I already bought one It wasn't the one I was gonna get was a very simple one. That's a perfect example. Yeah, so Number one is let's talk talk more about it. Ladies and gentlemen talk more about it and well and very specifically for women especially Tell them exactly exactly what you mean and what that looks like

Somebody one time says, you have to communicate so clearly that not only are you understood, but you cannot be misunderstood. And that's tough. It is tough. Because she even says it, she's like, I've told him. And I would say, well, either he didn't get it, or he forgot, or he didn't understand. And I would like, I'm going to go off on this for a minute. Not go off, but share some of my thoughts. Because for me, at least,

I think that the best way I have helped you to get understanding is when I first understand your viewpoints related around sex and intimacy and your needs and then I can come up with some analogy that helps you understand what it feels like for me. So if I can be like, you know what, when you do this thing, that's like me rejecting you for sex.

or me saying, not tonight, I have a headache, babe, or come up with something where you can understand what that feels like, and then me say, that's what it's like for me with this thing. When you do this, when you look at your phone, that's like you rejecting me, or when you, whatever, fill in the blank. And that takes some creativity and some thought and some awareness to be able to make it an accurate.

comparison because you can't also just make it up. Like it has to actually make sense and be legit. At that point, as you started doing that, I had this, just listen, like really truly listen. Cause it doesn't make sense to you. Maybe you're overreacting a little bit or that wasn't my intention. Right. I'm not rejecting when I get on my phone. I have important things to do.

Greg & Rachel (46:54.628)
I wasn't rejecting you for sex. I legitimately was just so tired and exhausted.

Greg & Rachel (47:04.228)
phone because it feels like if I'm looking at my phone instead of paying attention to her, it feels like my phone is more important than my wife. And I could argue all day long. But that's not true. We could get big fights like, babe, how could you say that? How could you believe that? I'm so hurt. My phone is stupid phone. Or I'm doing this for you. Yeah. I was on here. This is for you. This is why I do this. It won't ever make sense. It won't ever help the argument. You just stop and say, OK.

When I'm in your presence and I get on my phone, that just bothers you to the core. Okay. So then I start making this concerted effort and then you get on your phone. And in my mind, I'm like, okay, it doesn't bother me the way it bothers you when you get on your phone and you're doing something.

I know you're not on there wasting time or whatever. So you jump on your phone, you're doing something. If I were then to say, she's on her phone and I get on my phone, you'd be bothered. And I have to be okay with that. It happened the other day. We were sitting there together and you pulled out your phone, started doing something. I thought, man, if I were to do that, I'd be toast. But I'm like, okay, yeah, it's a different standard because it matters differently to you. So I'm okay with that.

And I could be like, it's so hypocritical. There's sheets on her phone. It's a different thing. If it matters to you, I'm going to adjust. And same for you. If it really matters to me, you're going to adjust. That's marriage. And I'm not going to try to, this has to be equal and the same. Like that's retarded because we're not the same. I'm like, okay, let's work on this.

So you go through those things that she articulated so well and start making the adjustments. The first step is being like we're talking about that explicit, that clear, communicate so well. And I'll throw this out there too. You had to repeat this a lot. Even when I felt like I got it, this was years ago. You started articulating like, well, this is what it's like for me. This is this. And at first I was like, that's...

Greg & Rachel (49:33.828)
That's off. I didn't understand, right? And then you kept repeating, I'm like, okay, I think I get it, but I didn't. Or I would forget. Especially like the listening. Right, because it's easy to forget. You just wanted, men love to fix problems. So women start talking about the problems, it feels like they're complaining. And so you're just instinctive desires to fix the problem. So she starts telling you about the problems, you're immediately like, I'm in fix it mood. And you kept telling me, no, I just want you to listen.

And I remember having these like pivotal moments where you're just sobbing and just like, Greg, shut up. Just listen. I'm like, I got it. Two weeks later, you're talking to me. I'm like, babe, I got this. She's like, stop. yeah. And I don't remember the timeline. I remember.

thinking, when am I going to remember that? She has to keep reminding me to not talk when I'm supposed to be listening. And it took a while. So I guess what I'm saying to Wife is like, don't be upset if you have to keep reminding him. Like get very clear and then just keep reminding him until it sinks in. You're like, yeah, I'm just supposed to listen. And so now, Rachel, I'm like, I'll ask her, I'm like, is this a listening moment or would you like me to speak now? Mm hmm. And I.

We have to get to the point where we're okay doing that, where we're okay telling each other, this is what I expect from you right now and you're not bothered by it, you know, and I'm not bothered by it. If you, if I were to get bothered of you asking me...

and i suppose we listening or you let me sell from then that causes more problems but now tell what's wrong with you know i don't you just know you should just now i'm like no i'm gonna tell you right now i want you to listen or sometimes i think you know i'm not sure try offering a suggestion i'll see how i feel about it right and picture you don't disagree though but when we but when we understand all those processes more than it makes it easier more playful and

Greg & Rachel (51:32.964)
gentler and and there's less confusion about what's happening because we're understanding that this is a whole process It's the whole thing now something that really helps that is having we love to talk about having this shared vocabulary or shared understanding which is why it's so powerful for you to read and talk about the same books like

Men are from Mars and women are from Venus. It's so easy for us to use one thing like you're speaking Venetian and we know what we're talking about. Like you're speaking a different language that I don't know. I don't know Venetian because I'm not from Venus, I'm from Mars. And all of that gives us a frame of reference for us to be able to say, hey, this is what's happening right now. This is why we're confused. Because we're from different planets and we're speaking different languages. And remember, you need to learn to speak my language, which right now is sitting there and saying, mm -hmm, mm -hmm.

I understand and you know and so you're listening that's so helpful and

Greg & Rachel (52:43.46)
Because if we don't get it, we think she's complaining. I'm like, that's how I, if I were to do that, I would be a complainer and that would be ridiculous. Men are complainers. But I'm misinterpreting what you're doing. You're just venting. You're just processing out loud whatever you're having to thinking about or worrying about. Where men tend to process internally often. And then say something. So if a man says it, it's different than if a woman says it. Because he's spent a lot of time thinking about it. And so he really means it where a woman's just thinking out loud and sharing.

random thoughts that come up and then that are not necessarily true but she's just experimenting. Exactly. Another thing I have to remember is like you'll say things that you don't believe. Where I don't do that. Like I'll think through it. I'm so careful with what I'm saying. And you'll be like, what about this?

And you're thinking, what? I kind of chuckle a little bit. Whenever Rachel is she's worried about something or afraid of something. She'll just say it. And I just kind of chuckle. And I think it's really cool like you don't get angry that I'm chuckling.

And I'm chuckling because in my mind I'm like, that's kind of cute. So silly. And I've learned that that I think helps and it actually helps me because I also can recognize that often things I'm saying in those emotional times are silly. They're like absurd sometimes, you know? And so it can be very funny and it helps to keep it light even though it's heavy and deep. It can help keep it light and

the awareness of what's actually happening here. It's not as heavy and serious as we think. It's just emotion. We're processing and going through emotion. So, but one of the things I think that really helps with this process that people need to understand if they aren't already aware of it is that I think it only works if you practice emotional honesty with each other.

Greg & Rachel (54:53.348)
Because a lot of times we can say things that aren't true. We can say, I feel this way, or it feels like that, and it might not be true. So it really only works if we are actually emotionally honest. But that also means, at least for me, that means sharing things even if they might be hurtful, or they might be misinterpreted, or...

maybe I think I should hold it back. And I guess the reason why it's important for me to do this is because it helps me to keep you informed of like where I'm at or what I'm thinking or what I'm feeling. And I know because you are a great husband and a great person, like you don't intentionally say things to hurt me or to hurt my feelings or stuff. But if I... And that's fundamental for you to be able to share.

Yeah. You have to trust me. Like if you share something, I'm not going to turn around and use it against you. Right. Exactly. That would immediately eliminate your trust or willingness to share things with me. Ever again. Ever again. Yeah. Exactly. yeah. We'll use... No way. That's done. Yes. But it also includes for me that I'm learning to just tell you. So even if I know you don't mean to hurt me with something you say, if you say it and it hurts...

then I like to share that. I'm like, that's interesting. It made me feel like this. Because to me, that's part of the emotional honesty part. I'm not going to hold that stuff back to you because we're in the process of self -discovery and relationship discovery. And I feel like all of the feelings and emotions and thoughts that we have can be important in that process. Now, we also, though, had an interesting conversation that that, if we want to talk about.

double standards and whatnot, that's not necessarily true the other way around. You don't share with me every single thought and feeling you have because for whatever reason, I think perhaps this is just the biological differences between men and women, women may not or cannot necessarily handle it as well as men can. They can't handle the uncertainty.

Greg & Rachel (57:10.596)
of their men. They want their men to be men. They want their men to be firm and the rock, right? Or analogy I heard was the sun. Like the man's the sun and the woman's the moon. And she's got these changing phases, you know, waning crescent, waxing crescent. And she needs him to be steady. She needs him to be the steady sun that's central and that you can rotate around and that he's going to hold that place so that she has the freedom to be

changing and unpredictable, right? And I know that this, I know that this used to bother me a lot, but the more I learn about it, the more I think about it and understand it, like the more sense it just makes to me. Like, yeah, that is the why. And that is why so many people have difficulties in their relationships is because this whole push for equality wants us to be the same. And we're not the same. We're very different. And when we can learn to understand and use those differences,

then that's what brings actually the equality that we want, the equality of in our relationships and in our families. But it comes from our differences, not because we're not different. I'm going to do a whole, I don't know, maybe a long form video or maybe a podcast on the Be The Man podcast or something. Because I got an excellent question from a gentleman. He says, my wife wants me to be vulnerable.

She wants me to open with her and tell her what I think and what I feel and what happened. He's like, but then when I'm vulnerable and I tell her everything, yeah, whoa, she did a mess. We had a fighting, she ends up hurt, says too much. She's crying. Really what you're saying. This is gonna sound.

This is going to sound a little off. So please, please don't misunderstand me. But I do believe there are certain things that you.

Greg & Rachel (59:06.564)
filter or withhold from your wife. Now immediately even saying that you're like, you what? Are you telling husbands to withhold things from their wife? That sounds like dishonest or off or anything like that or inappropriate. It's not. Here's the perfect example.

I had some clients, they would have all these frustrations at work with the business partner, or this went wrong, or whatever, and they would go home thinking, I'm gonna be the good husband, I'm gonna go home and tell my wife what happened. And they come home, they're mad, like my partner did this, and did this, and blah, blah, blah, blah, and they dump it on her.

And he's like, I feel better thinking about it. I think I know what I'll do. I'll take care of it. She holds onto it. She absorbs it. She keeps thinking about it. Working through it. She's still angry. Wanting to write an email or talk to them. She's mad and she's off. She's off with the kids. She's off with you. She's just like, she took it. And so I'm like, bro, call me.

to me let's work through strategies I'll help you with the business stretch I'll help you with things that are like whatever's going on and just like literally pull the car over and just yell and scream right go to the gym hit it hard go hit a punching bag then go home and say yeah babe it's a tough day that you know partner did this or one place did this and talk to her about it tell her about it but in a way that makes her realize you have it under control you're gonna handle the situation

and I think it's gonna be good this one would do. You get this processed version that she gets. She doesn't feel the full, rah. Well, because at least for me, I feel control and safety in my life knowing you have things handled. If you feel like you don't have things handled, like it's beyond your control and you can't fix or solve the problem,

Greg & Rachel (01:00:58.82)
I'm a mess. I'm like, I don't know then I guess everything's gonna collapse and we're gonna end up in the gutter. Like I have to know that you have it under control. So I don't go to you in moments of... and again good husbands are like I'm gonna go talk to my wife about it because I don't know what to do.

It sounds like a good idea because we want to be able to rely on each other. We want to be there for each other and I want to be there for you. But it has to be done tactfully. But I also know and this is the other challenge with this whole process, me being the moon or the ocean or the storm, especially if it's the wrong time of the month and you come to me with that, I am going to be a mess.

I will literally think our world is ending and like, that's it, we're done. Our kids are gonna go hungry and we're gonna be homeless. Because I take, like it's so heavy, it's so much. So that's part of that challenge is because, and you may not know when that is. So it's difficult and it is almost this double standard because you're definitely that for me.

Greg & Rachel (01:02:19.012)
Yeah, but interestingly though, I think where and this again seems so.

traditional, where you find strength and solace is in our sexual relationship. So when you have those low times and those low, those doubts and fears and whatever, if I can be there for you sexually, that helps you. Like that's just like a boost for you of like, okay, my woman is here. She's got me. Everything's good. I can take on the world. I know for many men that's the case. Yeah.

Greg & Rachel (01:02:57.96)
So and I know that we've talked so much about this I have these because I love it this circle of you know, it's Giving and receiving like I think that's really how it works. I Give you my problems and my concerns and my worries But you don't give that back to me instead you give me Sex and I receive sex if we want to think about it specifically that way and then I can give you my problems and it goes on and on and so we're

supporting each other but it's a different type of support because I can't take it's not exactly reciprocal right because as a woman I can't necessarily handle the burden of you doubting your ability to provide or to protect or to exactly I'll come to you and I 100 % advocate this go to your life's for ideas hey babe let's brainstorm this I love your insight right think about this and here's something

I have some ideas. I would love to hear what are your thoughts on this instead of, babe, I was due, everything would fall apart, help. Well, because what we have seen happens in those cases is that because it's not like women are capable of handling that or doing that or taking on the pressure. I mean, women have done that.

But I think that there's always an exchange rate, and she has to take on a more masculine role, which in a relationship, and I think that this plays out if you look at history, women who take on those more masculine roles have more difficult relationships because they don't know how to be the feminine. They don't know how to do the feminine part of it when they take on the masculine role. And that's often what happens. When a man comes to a woman saying, I don't know what to do, I can't handle this, then she automatically, her response is like,

I'll take care of it. I'll do it. It's a feminine approach that then induces some masculine... Yeah, she has to take on a more masculine responsibility to be able to solve the problem and then do it for him. And then she like miss... She basically throws off the balance of masculine -feminine relationship and then that causes more problems in their own marriage. Which we've seen in a lot of couples. Yeah.

Greg & Rachel (01:05:11.524)
where the wife really starts to lean, it's like, I have to take care of it, it's gonna get, I have to take care of it, and so she becomes... Well, like they used to say, she wears the pants. Right. But whatever. So then the man becomes more and more feminine, but then in every case, in every case I've seen, the wife will be like, I have just lost respect for my husband. Mm -hmm.

And so she's playing this masculine role. And doing all the things. But then she's like, I'm not OK with you having the feminine role. Yeah. And then they lose the respect, and they lose the spark, and romance, and passion. Well, yes, definitely. And it all plays out there. Interesting little tangent. Yeah, we're on a tangent there. The financing, I just want to share one thing. I know a couple who have hundreds of thousands, or even millions, or tens of millions of dollars in the account.

they can still be absolutely worried sick about finances. And like, it's the, we're gonna have the gutter, the kids will have a future. Even when there's tons of money or great investments, things are still good. Like, no, it's like this, just the tendency to - To catastrophize. Exactly.

Okay, so hopefully this was helpful for you. Well, it was for me. There's so much goodness here. I feel like we did a lot of psychoanalyzing. I don't know that we gave specific strategies, especially from the wife's perspective of what to do about it, except for simply finding a way to be more emotionally honest and to quote -unquote stop tolerating.

things that you don't like. And again, you can learn to do this. It doesn't have to be a mean or nagging way, but you can just stop doing things. I have shared it before and I will share it again. There's a fantastic book called The Empowered Wife by Laura Doyle and she walks through specific strategies for just helping your husband to want to cherish you again. And part of them is just things like that. She's like, if you're sick of

Greg & Rachel (01:07:17.54)
washing the dishes or picking up after your husband, just stop. Literally just stop and go do something else instead. Something that you want to do. And if the socks don't get picked up, fine. Like eventually, you know, you could not even find, I say the next level of that is like, tell them like, I'm not picking that up. Please pick it up. Yes. But she says to tell it in a way of not nagging or whatever, but saying, and she's, she actually uses this to use this phrase, simply saying, I can't, I can't pick up your socks anymore.

I'm sorry. Because it's a way of saying... I get where she's going. Well, because she talks about, in all of these things we've talked about, the need for the feminine to be kind of happy, you know, happy wife, happy life. Like, the woman has to feel...

Greg & Rachel (01:08:09.988)
nurtured, whole, healthy, not burdened. And so saying something like, I can't, is actually more honest in a way of like, I can't do that anymore because it's wearing on me. It's making me feel resentment. It's making me whatever it is. So when you say, I can't do that anymore, it's like,

Basically, I won't. It's semantics at some point. But it's this way of saying, I'm just not doing that anymore because I just can't feel the way I want to feel about things if I continue to do something that is not honest. From my perspective, it sounds like things are good. There's no massive problems in the question. And this is true for a lot of good couples.

I just have this super simple philosophy that has worked so well for us and for so many of my clients. It's like, babe, make me a simple list of the things that are most important to you, the things that you'd like me to do, or the things you'd like me to stop doing. And now, gentlemen, you have your direction. Like, it's so easy.

There's five things she mentioned here, and I'd ask for some clarification on that, and then I know what to do. I'm going to go to work. And if you have that type of conversation, she might say, well, I don't know what's on the list. But then as you move forward together and something happens, she can then say, this would be on my list. And you know exactly what she's talking about. And you're like, OK. And you could even say, well, like, why? Help me understand why this would be on the list.

But it gives her that permission to nicely be able to say somewhere along the line of like, this would go on my list right now. Perfect. Husbands, give your wife an easy way to have a list. And wives, don't be manipulative and don't take advantage of it. But if it were just this simple, and it is, it can be. Like, hey, tell me the things you'd like me to do or just stop doing. And I'm going to work on that. And it can even open the door to be like,

Greg & Rachel (01:10:26.756)
to have the, because you want to have the conversations, you want to be able to talk about these things. So you could even say like, this might go on my list. I'm not sure, but let me talk through it here because this is how I'm feeling right now. Right. And with men that I've done this with, they get their list, they start doing it, and they're on and off. And I'm like, not until you do 100 % consistent, until you're absolutely crushing it. 90%. Well, with simple things, I'm like, no, that's unacceptable. You don't ever have to do that.

Like be done with that. You never ever again, ever have to leave your dirty clothes just sitting on the bathroom floor outside the shower. Like that's an easy one. You can be 100 % on that. It's not asking too much. For an example, right? So, and they get going. I'm like, when you're consistent, when you're really rocking it, like then we can talk.

And so they're working their up and down, up and down. And then they're like, dude, I'm nailing it. I'm like, great. What happened? Well, she added more things to the list. Like, great. Good. Now your way of being, you nail these things. Now she's realizing, well, well, this is important to me, too. And it's this. And that's the path of refinement. Yeah. So it may be like there's always five things on the list, even though the original five like are a non -issue now. Like you just keep going. And why not?

That is the path of growth. Right. Why not just keep growing and keep getting better? It's, I don't know, in my mind, fundamentally so simple. Please let me know some things you'd like me to start doing or stop doing. And then help, please help me remember. And I'm going to write it down. I'm going to set up alerts, alarms. I'm going to put it in. I'm, I'm really going to make an effort to, to change. Yes. Just one more thing I want to say, because I feel like I want to give very specific actionable steps for.

this questioner. And again, you have to be careful because I truly believe that men and women have their strengths and weaknesses and the weakness for women can be manipulation. So we have to be careful not to be manipulative, but we can be more honest and we can be more vulnerable. And I think when it's honest vulnerability,

Greg & Rachel (01:12:42.884)
That's where we have the real power to influence, as opposed to using that vulnerability to manipulate to get what we want. But I'm going to try to share this approach I've used in the best way possible without it sounding manipulative. And one thing I feel like I've done is I'll use your natural interests or draw to me specifically.

sexually as an opportunity to have a discussion or a conversation and Not in a manipulative way not like you don't get sex unless we talk about this or you don't get sex unless you do this thing But I'll I will say to you things like I don't feel Open to you sexually or I don't feel Available for sex right now because I'm having these feelings or I'm having these concerns or for whatever reason this just keeps bothering me

And I want to be able to talk about it. And I might even do that. Well, I often do it while I allow you to. It's not like I'm holding withholding it from you. Like you'll caress me and Greg and I have something we called naked philosophy, right? Or I'll let him take off my clothes, but we're going to be talking because I have to work through this and I have to share this with him. And I found that you've been obviously very receptive to that sort of conversation and you're less. Because I know how important it is to you. Well,

And because I'm naked, but it also feels, I think, less threatening to you because I'm naked, literally. And so you're drawn to me, but I'm also being vulnerable with you. And I'm saying that this is, you know, maybe this is scary for me or I feel like I can't be totally like I'm naked with you now, but I can't be fully naked with you mentally or emotionally because of these blocks or because you do these things. And it makes me feel like this.

It can be a very helpful way to have a conversation where you're quote unquote using that natural draw in a way to be more open and vulnerable and using it as a metaphor as well of the other side of the conversation of like, this is your need and I want to meet these needs for you but I have these other needs where I'm feeling like they're not being met. And so.

Greg & Rachel (01:15:11.908)
I guess that's just something I want to share that we need to learn how to carefully do that because it can definitely be done in the wrong way. And one of the simplest ways to do that, I think, is just be straightforward. Like, I'm not trying to be manipulative here, but I'm trying to be honest. Just saying something like that can help diffuse it from feeling like a manipulation. Say, you know, I just want to work through this together because I love you and I adore you and I feel like.

there's something missing that I want to put my finger on and resolve. And then when those are, when they're out in the open and we've talked about them and they're there, then we can continue talking about them and we can address them. We can fix them. Yeah. But if we just quietly put up with them, put up with it, or we make these little jabs or hints or.

you know, whatever, hoping that something changed. Hope is not a strategy. So if I hint, hint, and hope, it's never going to work. It has to be clear and directed. It just really bugs me. And I just don't want it to be a part of our life anymore. What can we do about it? That's where you can get things done and make real lasting changes. Love it.

Thanks again for the question. Such a great question. And we've got our list here, gentlemen, of indictments that none of us want to keep. Guilty of? And to be guilty of. At least not permanently. Maybe we'll slip up and make mistakes, but we've got to remedy those things and take this super seriously.

And it's all in an effort to have an absolutely extraordinary marriage. Because when it's good, it is so, so good. And it's worth every effort. And for me, these are such simple things. They're little refinements like we talked about at the beginning. They're little adjustments, little refinements, 1%, 2 % tweaks that make such a positive difference in the quality of the marriage. OK, love you guys. Thanks for listening. Reach upword