#303 Being Married And Having Children Makes You Unhappy. The Shocking Truth

We are living in a time and space where there's this praise for comfort and convenience.

Being married is a skill.

Having children and being a parent is a skill.

The majority of marriages aren't that great.

You have to learn how to play the rules of the game.

Humans are a math.

Exactly.

If you're going to do it, then learn how to do it well.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life Podcast.

We're your host, Greg and Rachel Denning, and as always here, here to help you build, create, design, implement, maintain your extraordinary family life.

We are recording from the Azor Islands.

Which, if you don't know what the Azor Islands are, they're the Hawaii of Europe.

They belong to Portugal, which is where our home base is currently and we're celebrating our 24th anniversary in the Azur Islands.

So it's.

Amazing.

It's we just been wandering around just the one Big Island and it's been incredible.

Yep.

So we thought it's very fitting to talk about marriage and family.

OK.

But today we want to talk about it in connection or from the viewpoint of how it relates to single adults.

At least that's my take along with.

And my take is going to be.

Well, your take is relevant to parents because parents, whether they have single adults currently, which some of you do, or, or you have children who will become single adults.

I think this topic is relevant because it's directly going to affect essentially lifelong happiness for your young adults.

But my perspective is I, I want to talk to people who are already married and already have kids.

Yes.

So that's, that's what I'm talking.

I'm like, I'm talking to married people about the importance of marriage.

And it might sound silly because they're like, hey, we're already married.

But we constantly come across people that in their minds, you're already married.

You may even thought marriage was a good idea, but at some point you're like.

I made a mistake I what if?

What if marriage isn't a good thing?

What if?

What if we What if having kids was was a bad idea?

We thought it was going to be amazing.

We dreamed about having kids.

Now we have kids and it's not a dream, it's a nightmare.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, and I think that that's actually a very relevant point, especially considering that we're discussing this topic because I shared an article on Facebook that talked about this woman who I guess she's written a book or something.

She was married, she had four children.

And that idea, she realized this sucks, I don't like it.

She left them, she had an affair, she left her children, she went out, found happiness, found freedom, wrote a book about it.

And, you know, sharing this whole viewpoint of like, woo Hoo on the other side, it's amazing.

It's so great.

And so that's how this began.

And that's why we want to talk about it because, well, and, and I guess where I want to begin is I want to begin acknowledging that viewpoint, that argument that marriage sucks, being in relationships sucks, having children is not all it's cracked up to be.

There's more fulfillment in a career.

You know, being dependent on a man is stupid and it's a horrible plan.

I want to acknowledge that because it's real.

Like I really do.

And I'm not just blowing spunk here.

I really do feel that those are all valid arguments because they are true.

If you look around at the world, there are so many unhappy relationships, so many miserable marriages, so many abusive marriages and relationships, so many mothers who are like miserable, unhappy, so many children who grow up to hate their parents.

Like family life is a mess legitimately.

And if you're out there as a young adult, since we're also talking to single adults looking for a relationship that aren't getting married, you're like.

Thinking around like.

It's wrong if I stay single.

Yeah, I'm not so silly about this because it looks miserable.

You know, like that's a legit thing.

I can completely see that that's true.

It's not like I'm looking around with rose colored glasses and thinking what's wrong with people?

Marriage is the best, Everyone is.

Men are the best.

I love them.

They're so great, you know, like, I get it, Men are rotten sometime.

And you often complain to me being a man, a coach for men complain to be about how rotten men can be right?

So, so first of all, I don't ever complain.

So let's let's clarify that I do rant about how ridiculous men can be and and often are.

It's it's so pathetic.

So.

And and that's not leaving women, you know, yeah, Scott free either.

Like there's a lot of toxic.

Are also.

Vestibulative.

Exactly.

Best of women in the world.

So basically what we're saying is humans are a mess.

Exactly.

Relationships are a mess.

Yeah.

So we're starting this discussion, this argument, this debate from that viewpoint of saying, yeah, I fully like, I fully agree with that side.

I fully understand that side and.

Yet we could well hold on before we get to the end, yet we could easily argue you look at, just look at statistics, just look around and he said.

You know how many marriages work out OK?

Not not it's not that great.

And if those who even stay together, how many of those are truly, genuinely happy?

Not that great again.

So if you add those two together, you could say that the majority of marriages aren't that great.

And you could say you could make an argument saying marriage doesn't work.

Right.

And then you add parenting, you add kids to the mix and you see, OK, well, most, most of the issues that adults have, it's because they got it from their childhood, because their parents.

So in spite of doing quote the best they knew how sucked at it and leaves all these issues.

So if you just look around, you're like, yeah, I can I see that.

I can see the argument of like.

You know what?

Families don't work.

Yeah, family life's not doesn't work so great like there's why not choose?

Better off.

Eat, drink, and be merry.

It's better to be single.

It's better to not have children because you are going to be happier.

That that's the argument I've seen in multiple places now, and I'm saying it makes sense yet.

On a very superficial level.

Well, on one level of analysis, let's say that it makes sense.

Yet we could also rightly argue that if you look around, because, you know, human beings have been, well, human beings have been around for a very long time and they have been experimenting, I would say all this time we as a society have been experimenting with eliminating marriage, eliminating traditional families and.

That experiment has been done before.

Well, it has, but what I want to say at this point is that we're in the middle of that experiment.

And I think that I could argue that so far it's not going too well because if we look around at society today, there is clearly an epidemic of mental illness issues like suicide rates are up, depression is up, anxiety is up.

So if we believed as a society, which I think that was part of the feminist movement, that was part of, you know, a lot of this progressive movement that eliminating these relationships would make us happier.

It's not working because people are not automatically happier just because they don't have a spouse or children in their lives now.

Right there.

So, so on the other side of the aisle here, there's also this argument saying it's not working, the experiment is not working.

Now there's a lot of factors that go into this whole mental health health crisis.

I'm not saying it's just this one thing, but it's definitely a contributing factor.

And so that's the other side of the coin.

And we want to talk more about that.

We want to dig into some of the specific points about that.

But I guess what we do want to say is that despite their despite the fact that there is a legitimate and potentially strong case against getting married and having children, we are here to stay.

Say, and you know, if you've listened to our past podcast about why we're so certain about the things we preach on this podcast, it's because we only have very strong opinions about the things we've actually studied for, say, more than a decade.

And experimented with and experimented created long lasting results.

And taught to others and seen them create results like those are the things we have strong opinions about.

And so with that in mind, we are going to say and make a case for marriage, for saying, for saying that despite all of that evidence, getting married and having children is still one of the best ways, best potential avenues to real meaning, purpose and happiness in life.

And I'm mentioning meaning and purpose.

And I think I'm mentioning them first because actually meaning and purpose are more important than happiness.

People often think that the purpose of life is to be happy.

It's not.

The purpose of life is to have meaning.

And if you have meaning, even if you're sometimes unhappy because that's part of life, your life still has meaning.

Right.

Well, and there's so there's even people arguing against us like, hey, what makes you think that your life should have meaning?

Yeah, there's big arguments from very influential people saying, well, no, what makes you think that life has to have meaning?

It it doesn't.

So they're they're just throwing out everything.

They're questioning everything, which is a good thing to do.

As long as you keep questioning, keep thinking, just have one superficial thought and end right there.

As long as you keep going down that path and keep going, yeah, walk through the whole labyrinth.

Go through and say, OK, well, let's let's explore that idea.

Let's consider that.

Let's consider a life without marriage.

Let's consider a life without kids.

Let's consider a life without meaning.

Let's consider a life with happiness or without happiness.

Let's just walk down that path.

Let's see, let's see that whole thing and and see where it goes and, and, you know, consider.

Right.

All the layers and depths of possibility.

Consider at multiple layers of analysis, end of just one.

And remembering to like, not everybody's going to to follow this family path.

And am I, I'm OK with that, right?

Not everyone's going to get married.

I'm OK with that.

Not everyone's going to ask kids.

That's what I'll say, right?

I used to think, oh like having a family, having kids is amazing.

I think everyone shoves shit now.

I'm like, dude, please don't ever have children.

Please do not.

That would be terrible and unfair for those kids that you bring into the world.

Yeah, so even though we are making this argument, we also don't believe it's the path for everyone.

And that's OK.

But what we are trying to say is that because of the way society works, because of the way evolution works, the majority of people are going to follow a path that likely includes it's marriage and children.

And if you are going to follow that path, then you should learn how to do it.

Well, that's the point.

Because part of this entire argument to me is saying, hey, marriage doesn't work because people are miserable in their marriages.

Having children doesn't work because mothers are miserable being mothers.

But to me, it's kind of like, and you guys, if you've listened to us, you know, we love to use tennis.

I don't know why, because we've neither of us, either of us plays tennis, right?

We hardly know that much about tennis, but if you suck at playing tennis, the answer is not to get rid of tennis the game.

Well, no, but it makes me feel bad, so it should be eliminated.

Let's get from the earth.

Because I tried it once and it was terrible and it made me feel bad about myself.

I was embarrassed.

I had to spend all this money on fancy equipment.

I had to join the club and I it just sucked.

It sucked.

So we should get rid of tennis and I'm here to say no.

If you want to play tennis, then learn how to play it well.

That's all I'm saying.

I am not saying every single person should get married and every single person should be should have children and every single woman should be a traditional wife, a trad wife.

I'm not saying that, but what I am saying, what we teach on our podcast is if you're going to do it, then learn how to do it well.

Get the skills that makes it a better experience.

Because otherwise it's like playing tennis and sucking at it and then thinking we should just eliminate tennis from the earth.

That's it doesn't work.

So let's look at this and say, you know what?

For most of human history, marriage is a thing that mostly works.

You know, if you look at the big picture, it works in that it's perpetuated human society, right?

And if we're going to keep it around because as of yet we haven't found a better solution, despite the fact what many people think that they have found better solutions with open marriages or or polyamorous relationships, whatever doesn't work because humans are naturally very jealous people.

That leads to suicide or homicide and other problems, right?

If this is what we have so far, that's the best option that we have.

Let's learn how to do it.

Well.

That's our point.

Because it is a skill.

Being married is a skill.

Having children and being a good a parent is a skill.

And when you improve those skills, you have better relationships.

And when you do that, you have a more meaningful, purposeful, and happier life.

And yet, being married is hard.

Absolutely.

It's just brutals and you have to learn how to get along with another human being and try to understand them and, and, and somewhat of the opposite sex.

You're like, your brain does not make any sense to me at all.

As much as you tell me I'm just like, that doesn't make sense.

Then you bring a child.

End of the world.

On that for a second, because here we are.

We're literally celebrating our 24 24th anniversary yesterday.

OK, for context, yeah, our marriage is amazing.

Amazing marriage and still like even on our little trip here, we have things that occur that I'm just like that makes no sense to me.

Your brain doesn't operate like my brain.

I don't get it right.

It's a real.

Thing, of course.

My brain's the right brain, of course.

And mine's the left.

No, the wrong.

It wasn't right and left, it was right and wrong.

So, you know, it's, it's a real thing.

That's what people are dealing with now.

Again, back to the analogy, We don't just throw out the game because we haven't learned how to play it.

If I'm playing and you're black, I don't get upset because you're supposed to be black too.

We're different.

That's how the game works.

That's how it has evolved.

It's how it was designed.

You have to learn how to play the rules of the game.

So, well, OK, let me let me keep going down this road a little bit and then we'll come back to an analogy and some context.

And some exciting comments.

Facebook very interesting comments.

So marriage is hard enough, right?

And and it has these moments of joy and bliss and sex.

Well OK, let me add this little tidbit of your information.

Like the research clearly shows that the people who have the most consistent, best sex are married people, and among them it's actually religious married people that have more and better sex.

Which is counterintuitive to so many things what what's being taught and spread.

But then you add a child's a baby, and that's pregnancy and delivery and breastfeeding and sleepless nights and vomiting and diarrhea, blowouts and tantrums and a kid who could care less about your goals or agenda or your health relationships.

And then you have this just chemical dump inside your body that's, you know, estrogen and progesterone and oxytocin, all these changes.

And yeah.

And then the stress and the worry and the other kid and then the toddler, and then they become Queens and then teenagers.

And it's tough.

And you had more kids and like, oh, boy, here we go.

Now we're outnumbered.

And you keep going.

And so you can see how people think.

What am I doing?

I thought doing this, I thought my life would be a fairy tale.

And it's, it's terrible, it's horrible, it's no good.

I have no freedom, I have no identity.

Oh, it's I just taken advantage of and don't, I can't even live for myself anymore.

And so you can see how it goes down that path and can seem, especially if it's not played well, like the tennis comparison, it can seem pretty rotten and you can see why people would question it and even just walk away from it as some people do.

But I love we were in the gym this morning and Rachel made this comparison to health and fitness.

OK.

So I want, I want to get to that.

Hold on.

I want to get to that.

But first I want to mention something because you you said something about, because I want to get to the argument against having children, but you also said something about, well, if, especially if you're not playing the game well, it's going to suck.

Ultimately, if there is a message that we are teaching, primarily if there's something because I got accused on Facebook of preaching and proselytizing.

If there is a message that we are proselytizing, it's the fact that if you are going to have relationships in your life, meaning a marriage or a long term relationship, romantic relationship or have children, if you don't play the game well, it's going to suck a lot more than if you learn how to play the game well.

That's our message.

Ultimately, we are not out.

Like we already said.

We're not out there preaching everyone should get married, everyone should have children.

This is the best life path.

We are saying this can be the best life path, especially if you learn to play it well.

And I'm using the analogy of a game on purpose because a game has rules, the game has restrictions.

A game has, you know, if you're playing chess, you can't just like throw your piece off the board and play over here.

Like there's rules and restrictions.

You have to play within those in order to play the game well.

It also means there's a lot of options because of that, of what you can do within the game.

But if you completely throw out the rules and cheat, then you're no longer playing chess.

The same is true with marriage and parenting.

If you want to play the game those games well and receive the most positive benefit from them possible, you have to play by the rules, and you have to learn what those rules are and how to maximize them.

And what that requires of us is gross development.

We have to become smarter or skilled.

We we have to work on ourselves to get better and better.

That's true with anything taking tennis lesson any anything in business or sports or wherever you want to go, you, you have to put in the work and effort and when you do, voila.

Right, and so the main.

Results.

One of the main arguments we have here that we're in in favor of marriage and parenting, especially to the next generation, especially to the people who are already married, especially to the ones who are questioning it.

What we're saying is learn the rules so that you can play the best game possible.

Now.

That's what will make the difference in your life.

It's not whether or not it's not whether or not tennis is a good game.

It's not whether or not marriage is a good game or parenting is a good game.

If you learn how to play them well, they can be a great game.

If you suck at them, it will suck.

Yep.

So total transparency here, because we've been accused of only promoting our way of life as the best way of life.

So I think in total transparency, it's only fair to point out clearly we did not invent marriage or family life.

To be clear here, we didn't come up with this idea.

It's not ours.

It's not quote our way of life.

We've chosen to follow this path that was invented, created, evolved by others.

And so we're not just on here saying our way of life is the best way of life.

Because we.

There's a lot of history.

I always say there's a lot of history behind marriage and family.

And the fact that through serious study, questioning, doubting and searching, we've quote UN quote discovered because we haven't really discovered it, that wow, OK, actually this is a valid life path that works really well when you do it well.

Yeah, it it.

Just because we've aligned ourselves with that idea doesn't mean we're somehow now proselytizing our way of life.

It's.

The only way.

The best way, right?

It's not ours.

We just happen to align with that true.

But what's important is sometimes we think if you don't study history a lot, you kind of think that, oh, this is the first generation to really question it and really experiment with other ways of life.

And that's just not true.

It's been experimented with from any any kind of anything you can imagine.

Any weird thing you can come up with, it's already been done in societies, even thousands of years ago they were experimenting with different.

Ways in marriages relationship.

With with children, like weird stuff.

Yeah.

Any kind of bestiality, anything you can come up with, you can find historical data like, well, that didn't work and it actually led to the collapse of societies and civilizations.

So there's your sign, right?

And there's things we can just observe and realize.

OK, well, maybe I should question my assumptions to see how they play out in the long term and on a big scale.

Yes.

OK, so now let's move to the next part, talking about the argument against having children and the analogy that I want to share that I came up with that.

You in the gym?

I love gym.

OK, so in this article that I shared on Facebook, which I briefly summarized, I received a comment.

And I think that this is important because it does, it does represent an entire viewpoint out there that exists.

And again, the reason why we're bringing this up, we're talking to people who are already married because most of you are already are already have children, but your children are going to be confronting seeing, perhaps embracing this viewpoint at some point in their life.

Well, but so are you.

Yeah.

Those of you who are married.

And This is why I want to talk to the people already married because it's not just a given of like, why I'm already married.

So that's it.

Because there's going to be, you're going to have your days.

Like, maybe I shouldn't be married anymore.

Why didn't this guy?

Yeah, she's crazy.

I'm out of here.

Or she's such a jerk.

I'm done with, like, marriage.

Maybe marriage isn't the right path.

Or now we have these kids and it's horrible.

And what am I doing?

I should just go live my own life.

Those thoughts are still going to come up and people are going to blatantly say, look, well, if you're unhappy with your marriage, just leave.

Or if you don't like being a parent, walk away, Right?

Those kind of crazy ideas are being taught.

That that is the idea being taught behind this book that I share.

I didn't share the book.

I shared the article talking about the book, disagreeing with the premise that is being taught because this was a married woman with four children who walked away and found her happiness, her freedom and life has never been better.

That's what being shared.

And so, yeah, you're right, it is valid.

It is important for not just the young adults, our children, but for those of us who are already married, especially because you receive comments, questions from people saying all of my friends are getting divorced, all of my friends are walking away from their spouses and their children like it's, it's happening.

It is happening.

So I guess that's all I'll make that point again and again and again.

I'm not, I'm not just talking to young adults and trying to, you know, help them think clearly about marriage or not marriage.

I'm also speaking to marriage people that try to help us all think clearly when we're in the midst of the the strain and the struggle to still keep our thinking clear about why we got in and where we want to go and how to do it well.

Because the reality is people think that they will be happier if they walk away from it, but it's not true.

It is a lie.

You will find more happiness, you will find more meaning, and you will find more purpose by continuing the analogy, getting better at the game then you will by walking away from the game now.

To be clear, we don't have to talk about this, but not every marriage should continue there there is.

So done in it when you should consider divorce, there is a there's a time for that and there's a time to walk away from your children or to walk away.

Well, I'm going to use that very carefully to walk away from your parents.

Definitely.

Sometimes that's a a case, but you know, like there is a time when those things need to happen, but that's not the normative case.

It's going to be.

So that's why we're using we're speaking about it in the way we are.

OK, you ready for my comment?

OK, so it starts by basically I shared the link to the article.

The article was written on the Institute for Family Studies.

The guy commenting begins by saying, ah yes, the Institute of Family Studies.

At least there's no confusing what their bias is.

Now, first of all that.

That's a.

That's a great line.

That's just a great line.

It's so great and yet it's so myopic, as though any interest in family studies must have some sort of evil bias because they're concerned with the continuation of the human species.

But it's just like if you, if you take a stand for something like family, then you're biased, right?

So if I if I have started institute for healthy eating.

For tennis studies.

And they're like tennis.

So at least your bias is clear.

You think people should be healthy?

I can't trust anything you say about tennis because you are tense biased.

If you open a gym now we know that you're biased gym owner.

You think people should work out anyway?

This is a really great line.

This post sets up an obviously disliked book for a straw man argument.

Oh, wait.

That this post sets up an obviously disliked book for straw man argument isn't too surprising considering the tone of this website.

A woman free from obligations.

Let's not give our readership any ideas.

I love saying this in like the evil voice because it's so funny.

Because like though, let me give my little rant here.

It's as though someone who works for or writes at the Institute of Family Studies has never been exposed to or considered that a fact or idea of not getting married and having children possibility them know that they could do that, right?

So funny and, but, but you can see I there's families, I've met them, you've met them, the readers have met them.

Maybe you grew up in a family like that where it could be extremely conservative or extremely religious or whatever.

Considered that you're not married and have children, of course.

That's what.

You're and if anyone's like, well, what about people who don't, don't you dare say such things in this home.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, it exists, right?

It exists, Institute for Family Studies that I've actually been following for many, many, many, many years.

They're very grounded.

They're very open to studying all the research that's out there.

They just want to know.

They like really want to sincerely know what is, what's the truth here?

What's the science actually show?

Oh, interesting.

It actually shows things, shows things that supports families.

That's interesting.

We should share that.

We should let people know that not all of the evidence out there is against family life.

And there's so I actually really like how articulate this comment is.

And it's, it's, it's actually, it was a it's a good, it's a good comment in the it's, it's written well and, and it's fun and, and there's a lot of personality to it, but but a lot of the slots.

So, and we're going to kind of pick this part a little bit.

It's like a, a woman freer from obligations, which is a really interesting idea.

And that's I want, I want you listener, to chew on this.

What do you want?

Do you want to have more obligations or do you want to have fewer obligations?

Do you want to embrace more responsibility or less responsibility?

It's a really.

And so the the commenter here is promoting a life freer from obligations, a life with less responsibility.

And I want you to chew on that like, is that the better way?

Is the better way in life to have fewer obligations and responsibilities?

Less to have, more comfort.

Because obligation, responsibilities, they're burdens.

Yeah.

So you want more burdens or fewer burdens and, and you've really got to wrap your head around that.

Well, because a lot of people say, and they really believe less burdens are better because that means less stress, less anxiety, less challenge, and.

They think more happiness.

They think your obligations mean more happiness.

So duh.

Why in the world would I have children if I could live with fewer obligations and be, quote, happier?

But the truth is, and again, not just our idea, not just something we came up with, that people who take on more responsibility actually have more meaning and purpose and by default, happiness.

I would say can have can because there are many who take on more obligations and responsibilities and they don't handle them well.

And so then it crushes them.

And then those, the critics on the other side say, ha, see that person took on more obligations, more responsibilities, and it made them miserable.

It, you know, they broke them mentally or emotionally and destroyed the relationships.

It ruined their health because they took on more responsibilities.

Well, because the research, the clinical research shows that you have to willingly take on those obligations.

In fact, there's something that happens in the human brain when people are when they have obligations forced upon them versus what happens when they willingly choose those obligations.

So there's a huge difference there, yeah.

And you choose challenge.

It's a very, very different thing than having challenge forced.

Exactly.

So with his argument in mind, in some ways he's right.

A a woman or any person who is forced to have more obligations is not going to do well or thrive and will be more miserable than a woman who willingly chooses to take on those obligations.

Now with that and, and this is, this is our message, and I think we're kind of unique on this.

This is our message.

Anyone who willingly chooses to take on an obligation or responsibility with that automatically commits, even though they're often unaware of it.

We automatically commit to figure out how to do it well.

To learn how to play the game.

Yeah, because if we don't learn how to play the game, if I say, you know what, I willingly choose to become a tennis player, but if I don't simultaneously choose to figure out how to play it well, then I'm going to be the tennis player for years to come that hates it and struggles and sucks at it because I never figured out how to do it well.

And, and you might argue was like, well, not everyone can do it well.

Well, then maybe you shouldn't have kids, yeah.

And there's some that they shouldn't.

But like even in in athletics, right?

You might think, well, you know, that person may not eat as good, but there's a wonderful book called Talent is Overrated that this puts that to rest.

It's really going to come down to it.

You think, well, well, this person might not play well.

Well, you're right because they need to drop 20 lbs.

And then deliberately.

Practice.

They got to train like crazy and they got to sleep better and they've got to do the drills.

And maybe they'll never be the best in the world, but they're going to get better then they're.

Predominantly better and and when you look at like the the greatest athletes like Steph Curry does, I think he does 500 shots a day, every day, no matter what periods.

Like I don't even know what sport this is.

He's basketball.

So he he and he just, he's one of the best in the world.

But he just does that.

And I've read about like really extensive difficult drills he does where he's bouncing a basketball and a tennis ball simultaneously and then then doing one of them against the wall and one on the ground at different rates.

And then then watching a video and watching drills and moving laser lights.

You're too.

Much work.

It's so much I.

Do I?

I want to be a parent, but I don't want to have to do all of that.

That's like.

Too much.

I just want to.

I just want to do my things.

Yeah, have my job and.

Be on social media and let the kids just do their thing and and it'll all work out.

But no it won't.

It won't at all.

And so if you choose to embrace the responsibility of having a child or bringing a child into the world, which interestingly and importantly, if you choose to have sex, then you're choosing to procreate.

That's that's what sex does.

Case in.

Unless you take some very clever action.

But even then, like birth control is just absolutely wrecking.

That's the topic.

Women's.

Bodies.

For which we're going to get to with the common.

OK, keep going with common, OK?

So I'd really rather see people of all stripes make this choice for themselves.

So would I I agree rather than be encouraged or incentive incentivized to make babies just for the sake of making babies.

I agree with you.

And that is not the point of the Institute of Family Studies, just in case you were wondering.

I don't, I don't know.

I don't know if I've ever heard an argument of people just say, hey, you should have a baby just just to have a baby.

I think he's saying right here, your religion, whatever it may be, doesn't get to decide this for everyone else.

I think he believes that many religions teach that and that could I could see that argument for sure, where the the whole religious command is to multiply and replenish the earth.

So that means make babies just for the sake of making babies.

They can see that.

OK, yeah.

OK.

So you just, you know, you've been commanded to have kids, so you should just have kids.

And I actually disagree with that.

I don't think you should do that.

I think that if you want to have a child because it's a natural inborn desire for many people, from a evolutionary perspective, even then you should have a child.

But you should also do what we're saying and get really good at parenting.

It's not something just anyone and everyone should do just for the sake of it.

I don't agree with that.

And I don't know of a religion that's like, even the pushy ones don't.

They don't force it on everybody.

It's like, yeah, And they don't get to decide everyone.

Everybody's huge.

At least in their religion we belong to, they say it's between you and God, like it's not something that's forced upon you.

You get to decide whether or not how many children you have, etcetera, etcetera.

OK then of course I love this part.

Given that you recently posted something from Prager, you because of course they are pretty much, you know, far right devil, I can guess a lot about you and none of it is positive.

That's the best line in here.

That is also so, well, there's there's so much to that sentence.

Funny, especially.

If you ever share something from Prager U then that means so one post that means I can guess a lot about you and none of it is positive.

I think it's also.

Shared something from Prager UI.

Think it's especially funny because probably 234 years ago, I was the person who online would not watch anything from Prager UI was like, Oh my gosh, they're like far right.

They're so extreme.

This is just the no.

And I would literally if I saw it'd be like scroll, scroll, scroll fast pass Prager U.

And then I realized, you know what?

That's actually very small minded.

That's actually very underdeveloped.

If I cannot expose myself two ideas on both sides of the expect the spectrum and not feel like somehow I'm going to be captured and indoctrinated and baptized with blood or, you know, like something weird is going to happen to me.

If I happen to listen to or watch something from one side or the other, it's it's myopic, it's small, it's underdeveloped.

We have to be able to expose ourselves to ideas on both sides of the political spectrum, the whatever spectrum you want, right?

Religious spectrum.

I compare it to me.

It's like because growing up Christian, you and I growing up very religious, early on in our marriage we would not read anything that was not outside of our religion.

Sorry.

We would not read anything that was outside of our religion because we believed all truth would be found within our religion.

That was a very dangerous viewpoint and thank God we changed that and we're willing to read anything and everything.

We were willing to read things by.

We were willing to read the Quran.

Or the Damapata, or the back of a Gita, or the Dada Ching.

I've read all those.

We're willing to read things by atheists, by scientists, by people we didn't agree with.

That is what has developed our brain and our viewpoints and our way of thinking by being willing to expose ourselves to all ideas on all sides of the spectrum.

I love the rotisserie idea.

The rotisserie chicken idea.

Like really rotate that chicken and look at it from every single angle.

That is the best way in my mind to approach ideas in the world.

And so the to turn this back on himself, the very fact that he's so judgmental about something from Prager, you probably because he's never watched anything.

I can guess a lot about you and none of it is just kidding.

I'm not going that far.

But even if you do, and, and I've listened to a lot of people on, you know, and on both sides of, of the line and, and, and very often I hear it like, well, for me personally, I'll listen to people on the far right and I'm like, yeah, I don't agree with you.

And I'll listen to people on the far left and I'll be like, yeah, I don't agree with you.

But usually in, in both sides, you'll find little bits and pieces like, I agree with that.

And that's OK.

And then there are people who are, you know, blatantly 1 sided, mostly politically.

It's like everything is coming out of your mouth is just has this political agenda and you're not really talking about issues or solutions.

It's is so political.

Propaganda.

Yeah, there's and there's a lot of propaganda both sides like that's not it's so it's not worth.

Even party slogan.

Listening to yeah, so I get that part too, where you'll you'll hear some people in some places you're like, yeah, so I can't even listen to you because it's all just propaganda.

Right, OK, anyways, moving on the.

Comment The comment continues.

Comment continues the myriad studies mentioned both here and found via Google search.

Because Google is of course the most unbiased place to find information.

Or contradictory.

That was my little insert of satire.

Wait, why?

Because Google is biased.

Well, but still you do a Google search.

Yeah, Google search is great.

I do a Google search.

I'm just throwing that in there as kind of like, yeah, right, we're all going to do Google searches.

But Google, because it's created by humans, is biased.

Like everything out there is biased.

Everyone has a bias, We have a bias, everyone has a bias.

So it's just something that I'm always aware of when I'm looking for information.

And this is maybe one of it's probably a strength, it's also a weakness.

I am constantly doubting every single thing.

Everything I think, everything I believe, everything I read, everything I hear, I am doubting it.

My first response is criticism.

Like that is my automatic response to anything I see here.

Think believe it's to critique it so I can find the faults in it.

Because I I believe that's how you actually find the truth.

I agree.

You have to doubt before you can believe.

So questioning and, and this is important, questioning even your religious beliefs is really important.

Because nowadays that includes politics, because politics have become a religion for so many people.

Right.

And it's a bit good questioning that really truly questioning and studying it well, it'll, it'll lead to a stronger belief.

Exactly.

A greater understanding, but if you're like, don't question it ever, because it's infallible.

That leads to naivete, exactly.

And a very weak belief and foundation of faith, right?

OK so I just do that in as a side note.

But he did a Google search.

Of course their contradictory is similar to those studies found to reveal whether food is good or bad for you.

But one study found that between 5 to 14% of parents regret having kids.

And he shares links to two articles about parents who are regretting to have kids.

OK, so very true.

Seems irrelevant to me.

Well.

No, but it but it's also he's making a good point.

Like you do any Google search for for research and studies and you'll find contradictions.

That's absolutely true.

It's about food, about parents, whatever.

And so a study finding that 5 to 14% of parents were having kids, Yeah, that's that's a no brainer.

Not at all.

In fact, I would bet there are moments when maybe 100% of parents.

At some point like your parenting journey.

Fate.

That what were we thinking?

We're right here in the chaos of it and I'm saying, what was I thinking?

So I guess.

So every time you have another kid, you're like, maybe we shouldn't have had this, right?

Other one, it's going to kill us, right?

And in those moments of weakness and stress and faint and struggle.

Ability to be able to handle the obligations right, like.

But you question your choices, too.

Exactly.

And yeah.

And especially if you are struggling to do it well, if, if you feel like you're being crushed under this burden you've chosen to take.

And when you're tired, you're exhausted and you're sick and things aren't working out and there's change in the economy or now you get fired.

We all experience these moments where we're just rough.

My whole life.

By life and you think, man, I wonder if we should have even had kids at all or or the marriage is just terrible.

You're fighting is so sad.

You're like, maybe I should have married someone else, or maybe I should have not gotten married.

That's normal.

And I guess that's why I say like, I don't understand his point with this because it's almost like he's mentioning it as though he's going to shock me that what some parents regret having children.

No, I don't.

I think I just take him as like, I think that paragraph.

Sort of of something that.

Just that there's.

Regret having children right so.

Right, so he's just pointing out that it's studies are on both sides, they're contradictory and some parents truly are having.

Kids but I guess.

But I guess why mention it unless you assume the person doesn't know this.

Well, but they're all assuming that you are.

All right, they're assuming I don't know this, that I guess that's what I'm saying.

Like I'm, I'm not surprised or shocked by this.

OK, now he quotes from one of the articles that he shared a link to quote.

After all, having children, I'm sorry, it just makes having children, particularly when they are young, involves financial struggle, sleep deprivation and stress.

Thank you for sharing that.

I'm sorry for mothers.

There is also many cases the physical strain of pregnancy and breastfeeding and children can turn cheerful and loving romantic partnerships into a 0 sum battle over who gets to sleep and work and who doesn't.

Like who wrote this?

Well, it's coming.

What is done then?

I want to.

I want to.

I'm just curious to see if the person who wrote that paragraph has children.

Has ever act interacted with a child?

It's like, it's like they're pointing out, like stating.

You're like, thank you, Captain.

Obviously, but that's what's so it's like it's funny.

It's it's laughable that we're trying to articulate that for mothers.

There can also in many cases be physical strength of pregnancy and breastfeeding.

You've never been pregnant.

Yes, there's physical.

Wait, what?

Or been around anyone.

This is what I also wonder because this is actually one of the things I've heard that we live in a world today where many, many of the millennials have never been around a baby.

Like this is a thing.

They have never been around children.

They have never been around a pregnant person.

So I think, yeah, you're right.

This is an interesting insight because these are people who don't actually know.

They haven't seen it in real life.

They haven't seen the financial strain, the sleep deprivation, the stress, the physical strain of having children in your life because they haven't been like the.

Author's just like.

Can you believe it?

Yeah, actually, I'm going to throw this out of your life.

Tell people.

Now, having a baby can cause physical strain for some women like well Which?

Which women don't experience physical strain in pregnancy and breastfeeding?

OK, let me continue.

As the Atlantic staff writer Jennifer Senior notes in her book All Joy and No Fun, children provoke a couple's most frequent arguments.

More than money, more than work, more than in laws, more than annoying personal habits, communication styles, leisure activities, commitment issues, bothersome friends, or sex.

Someone who doesn't understand this is welcome to spend a full day with an angry 2 year old or a stolen 15 year old.

They'll find out what she means soon enough.

And I'm laughing, OK?

I'm laughing here because OK, I'm going to give my analogy now that we've been waiting for the amazing analogy.

But actually, let me finish this comment really fast because now he goes back to his own.

He's not quoting anymore.

Much of the stresses of parenthood seem to come from the stresses of caring for or affording them.

So so long as they were manageable, then yes, it stands to reason they'll make you happy.

If you're in a privileged position then good for you.

As a result of large scale capitalism, late stage capitalism, far too many are which OK, whatever, but.

Yeah, there's a whole sense of victimism there.

If you are privileged then good for you, but if not, if you're just.

Experienced children.

If you're just experiencing what he calls late stage capitalism, too bad for you.

This is Dan.

I'm married in Childish and like my partner, I'm quite happy with that choice.

I'm also quite happy with the vasectomy that I got a few years back.

I'm also happy with mine that I got a few back.

I'm happy with yours too.

And every time we decided 7 was enough and you got it.

And that was it.

Every time I pass a crying, whining child with a parent that can't or won't control their spawn, I am just a little more thankful for my vasectomy.

And we too.

We too are.

Grateful for your vasectomy?

Sure.

So back to the point here, having children involves financial struggle, sleep deprivation, stress, physical strain.

They can turn cheerful romantic partnerships into battles.

Yes, yes, yes and yes.

We're in the gym this morning, I said.

Greg, did you know that people who exercise sweat more, have more physical strain, They have more stress, they're more likely to vomit, they're more likely to have tired, sore muscles.

Therefore, people who do not exercise are happier than those who do.

This is my logic based off the logic and reasoning from this post.

And you might think, well that's silly, that's a stupid example or analogy.

But but this is to me, and I have read a lot of different articles like this.

These aren't the first ones I've ever seen.

I I've seen a lot of articles.

In fact, I wrote a post responding to an article like this like five years ago in 2019, right?

It's not a new idea.

But the point is, to me, it is just as silly as comparing happiness to whether or not you work out.

Because when you work out, you're going to feel all the stress and strain and pain and.

All of that struggle, in fact struggle in order to get a really good workout.

You're going to feel it.

But that is my point, and that is actually proving the point of why getting married and having children are better for you than not.

Just like exercising is and eating well, even though you have to deal with deprivation and making sacrifices about not eating those Donuts, that is better for you than not doing it.

Well, and I let's add to this.

I did some cold plunging and a very hot sauna today.

So I exposed my body to extreme cold and extreme heat, both of which are very, very good for you, but they are uncomfortable.

They're very.

Uncomfortable.

So if the entire reasoning and viewpoint behind this, which from all I can tell everything I've seen is based off this, you are happier when you don't have children because you have less stress, frustration, irritation and annoyance in your life.

It is exactly the same argument as saying it's the same if you don't work, don't work out and don't eat well.

But what are the long term consequences of such?

And I believe it's exactly the same when it comes to this argument.

If you want to avoid the struggle and strain of having relationships, well, you're going to get the long term consequences of not having relationships.

And what many people failed to take into consideration in all of the arguments I've heard is what is it going to be like for you when you are 50, sixty, 7080 and 90 and you are all alone in the world?

A.

Study we heard recently on the strip is that 90% of women who choose to not have children.

Or can't have children.

They they later regret that. 90%.

And again, so to not be misunderstood here, there's going to be some struggle and strain and challenge that comes with being married and comes with having children.

That's a good thing.

Well, then we talked about learning how to play the game well.

And I want to clarify this.

There's going to be a lot of unnecessary struggle and strain and suffering that comes from not a developing the skills to do it well.

So there's, there's part that's just, it's just tough.

It just is.

And that's great.

But then there's a part where things are really not working out well, and that's simply because of strategy, lack of strategy and lack of skill.

Right well, and I think even more importantly, I want to emphasize that the very argument people are using against having children is actually the proof for having them.

Because of what we understand about how human beings work, how the world works, everything that is worth having is difficult to obtain.

And because it is difficult to have children and to be married, that is actually why they are more valuable.

That is where the value lies.

So people are missing this point when they think, wait, struggle, strain, pain, suffering.

I'm opting out.

It's like Buddha teaches with the two fold path, right?

Let's bring in Buddhism here.

He teaches one path is easy and comfortable and it leads to all the things you do not want.

The other path is hard and strenuous and it leads to everything you do want.

There are two paths here, and that is what I want to emphasize.

That is my message to young adults.

That's my message to people who don't have children but are considering it.

That is my message to people who have children.

Who are in the midst?

Of who are in the midst of it.

Like this is.

The path that is more valuable is going to be more strenuous, yeah, and that is the point.

And it's more developmental.

You're you're going to get so much more from it.

We are definitely living in a time and space where there's this race for comfort and convenience.

And if we base all of our life decisions on comfort and convenience, on ease and pleasantness, that that failing leads to on, well, miserably misery eventually.

But you're going to be so underdeveloped.

Yes, that's like.

Think about that.

What?

What kind of life comes from?

Taking the easy.

Trying to get the struggle on straight.

It's the butterfly.

You're trying to get him out of the chrysalis too.

Too early, too soon.

Getting the chick out of the egg.

Yeah, like, Oh my goodness, that chicken looks like it's really struggling.

Let's just break it out.

Or what we just learned is like C sections, instead of going to the birth canal, it actually compromises the baby's immune system because they didn't go through the birth canal.

So there's all these, there's all these lessons in life is like this struggle that makes us strong.

So let's embrace the struggle.

Let's embrace the challenge, whether we're thinking about starting down that path or we're already in it and thinking about quitting and then figure out how to do it well, get the skills set up the systems that make it successful and and gratifying and fulfilling.

An absolutely wonderful, like genuinely extraordinary family life is 100% possible.

We just got to figure out the formula.

How to play the game?

Yeah, play the game and play it well, and it makes life so much better.

Anyways, we got to run.

Love you guys.

Thanks for listening.

Thanks for having families.

Lean into your marriages, lean into your kids, lean into making the world a better place by making your family a better place and becoming the very best version of yourself.

Love you guys, reach upward.