Why Homeschooling Alone Isn’t Enough (And What To Do Instead)

has to be happening at home and then you've got to take them out to see the world. Education is not the filling of a bucket but the lighting of a fire. That is the only method that will produce the results you want. Expanding the schooling from just home and out into the world. Comfortable, convenient methods do not produce extraordinary results. There is something that is cemented in your soul. Again, change the method. Hey there, this is Greg Denny. We want to reach as many people as possible and help as many families as possible with these conversations and we want to keep this podcast ad free forever. You can help us do that by subscribing on Spotify or Apple Podcast or wherever you listen your favorite platform and on YouTube and leave a quick review and and share your favorite episodes with friends and family. It makes a big difference. Thank you for being a part of this very important movement. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life Podcasts. We're your host Craig and Rachel Denning bringing you the goods, all the goods that you need to create and live your extraordinary family life, whatever that looks like for you. Okay, I want to dive in deep to these really, really great questions. I really want to dive into the homeschooling question. So when you when you get the desired outcome, you have to absolutely critical you attach it to a corresponding method. This is where a lot of people fail in life. They want one thing and they choose a method that doesn't create that result. So if I want target A but I'm using strategy F, they're not correlated. So the method I'm using will never produce the result I want. Right? So I have to be willing to change my method. What she describes in this list cannot be and I and I say that boldly and confidently cannot be accomplished in public school. And because it's so extensive actually it cannot be accomplished in mere homeschooling. And this is really why we got into what people are calling to world schooling or at least our variety of world schooling because there's so many varieties of doing it. But the list she describes so well can only be accomplished by a unique version of world schooling. I would boldly declare that that is the only method that will produce the results you want. So at that point we all have to ask do I actually really want those results because if I do if I want those results enough I have to change my method. Well and I think the point ultimately that you're making here is that if you want to create extraordinary results you have to take extraordinary measures like you have to do extraordinary things otherwise ordinary methods produce ordinary outcomes. Somebody asked me that question last night. I was interviewed on a podcast and they said what's the difference between extraordinary and ordinary? I'm like, it's the extra. Right. Right. If you send your kids to public school because that is the ordinary method. I mean, that's what most people do. So, we can all agree that that's the ordinary method. Homeschooling them is going to produce something a little bit extra, a little bit more extraordinary. Absolutely. But then if you want to go even beyond that, then you have to take it another level of extra. And that is what essentially you mean with the world schooling. People may not totally comprehend what you're talking about, but what we're saying is expanding the schooling from just home and out into the world with experiential learning on a higher level. She mentioned several things in this list that can only be thoroughly learned and experienced abroad. Before we get into it, I was going to say because I love that she has this list because you and I also made a list. First of all, you and I made lists about what we wanted in our spouse before we met each other. That was important. And then when we were married and were talk before we had any children, we read a book about homeschooling and we talked about and decided to do homeschooling. We made a list just like this one. It was actually much longer about what we wanted for our children in their homeschooling journey. And now I actually we've made it into a PDF. It's the must must know skills skills for young adults. Right. Love it. So, we have a whole list of of essentially everything we put on there. But the idea is you you need to have lists. Like you need to know what it is you're after because otherwise you think, "Oh, my kids need an education. Public school. There you go. Done. Education check." And again, if you want more extraordinary results, you have to think bigger than that. That's that's very naive trust to think that well of course the people in this school and the people running this school they want my kid to have a world-class education. Of course they do. I mean that's why they're there. They must love children and youth or they wouldn't have become teachers. I mean they're there to do what's right for my kid and the best for my individual child and their unique potential. It's so naive. It's not the case at all. uh to love Jesus, to live for him, to be independent, smart, capable individuals who can handle life. Stop right there. Even that's very complicated. Yeah, that's so complex. And there's no way that's happening in post. It does not. And the major reason it does not is because school is designed, and this is not my opinion. This is the research that's out there that's proven that's backed up the history of schooling. It's designed to create compliant rule followers who don't know how to think, who aren't trained to make decisions for themselves, who are told what to do and are expected to do it. Right? The very model of how the public school system works means that by default, your children are not going to learn to be independent, smart, or capable individuals who can handle life. They're not going to learn to love Jesus either. Well, because it's illegal to talk about Jesus in public school. Okay. Then of course the next one to be able to think for themselves and solve problems. Nope. Not going to happen in public school because again the goal in public school is not to learn to think for yourself. Because when you think for yourself, you actually become an disturbing element. You become a problem because you're asking too many questions and you're disrupting things. Disruptive. Exactly. you're not letting the teacher get through the curriculum or get through get to the test. Like it's interrupting the factory of production. And we did an entire episode, you and I, about allowing your children to quote unquote talk back because that's how they learn how to think. When your children when you say something to your child and then they say, "Well, wait a second. No, what about this?" That is their brain learning to think. Now, if you shut that down and you say, "Don't talk back to me. just obey which if you're a parent doesn't work if you're a teacher because you have to do that also does not work if the outcome is learning how to think. Allowing children that space and that freedom to be able to talk back like that is how their brains learn how to think. So the very environment of school doesn't allow for that nor for solving problems because they're not trained to solve problems in school. They're trained again to follow directions. Education has to be self-directed, right? It has to be. And so at age appropriate levels, learning to solve problems is having it be self-directed because you're the one leading the education. They learn by figuring out problems on their own. This entire idea of solving problems that happens in homeschooling, not from the curriculum they're taught, but by the process of solving the problems they face and learning how to learn. Exactly. And learning that thing. Yes. So, so when we look at it like that, like the foundational framework of public school is to learn to follow directions. The foundational framework of homeschooling can be because it's not always that way. Some parents set up their home school just like a school. So, there's small difference. I want to address that. But so, essentially, the entire framework is self-directed. Like, this is your education. Figure it out. Solve the problems. I'm here to help you. But you are in charge. The basis itself is is thinking for themselves and solving problems and being independent and gaining in capability. Everything she has in that first two lines happens by the very nature of the framework of homeschooling. Yep. If if it's done appropriately, it's done correctly. There's a great quote. I think it's by Aristotle, but I'm not sure. Education is not the filling of a bucket, but the lighting of a fire. And it's that entire idea like the the framework of the public school system is you're you are a bucket student and I'm going to fill you with information cuz I'm the teacher. Cuz I'm the teacher and I have the information and I'm going to give it to you. The other idea, it's not filling a bucket. It's lighting a fire. You want to spark something in them that catches them on fire, that gives them passion and excitement for learning, for life, for growing, for studying and and digging deep into things. That's the idea. And that fire does not come by someone filling a bucket with water, right? It's just it's completely incompatible. And then we wonder, why do our kids hate learning? And why are they incapable? And why are they incompetent? And why are they struggling with mental health? Then why are they, you know, lacking initiative? It's because we've literally been dousing them with water trying to fill their buckets instead of sparking flames to light fire. So, okay, the list continues. To be well-rounded, languages, culture, instruments, history, science, math, English, computer skills, sports, health and fitness, financial management, cooking, and cleaning. All of that and more and more has to be happening at home. And then you've got to take them out to see the world. The language, culture, history, that has to be experienced in person. Now, obviously, you can do some studying. You can do dual more immersion schools and you can, you know, study history from the books or videos or podcasts and that's all great. But when you go into a foreign country and you challenge yourself to communicate with the locals in their language and you learn, as they say in Spanish, alafa by force of being thrown in a situation where you've got to figure this out. Well, cuz it's one thing to be like, "Oh yeah, I'm going to learn Spanish and you know, I'll study it here and there, but it's a whole another thing when you're in a Spanish-sp speakaking country and you're like, I cannot buy groceries unless I learn some Spanish words." Exactly. It's al fora and you have to do it. There is something that is cemented in your soul and and you it's like you're literally connected to the timeline of history when you go to a place that's been in existence for thousands of years. Like there is I don't know how to explain it. There is something special there. There's something very unique where you it it's like you step into history in a way. You step into that space and time and for one thing you you can't forget it. it becomes a part of who you are. And so it becomes much more relevant to your children when they learn about things and then can make a real connection to time and space by visiting an ancient site, right? And trust me, when you actually learn about those places, your kids are way more interested because they have been there or are going there. So if you want the things that are on that list, and I hope you do, I hope everybody listening does, then you have to do more. You have to do the extra. Yeah, you got to do the extra for the extraordinary. But okay, so then she continues, I don't want to be the only teacher in their lives. I want them to experience high levels of learning and to be challenged and also to experience society at its best and its worst. So this is kind of that requires travel. Well, but in a way, this is kind of her protest against why she doesn't want to homeschool because she thinks if I do, I'm going to be the only teacher. They're not necessarily going to get high levels of learning from me. And plus, they're not going to see the best and worst of society because they're at home with me. To be challenged and to experience the society and best at worst, that also happens when you're traveling. Like, that for sure happens. You get to confront every interaction you have from the hotel desk clerk to the taxi driver to the the guy on drugs drugs in the in the subway to like you see society at its best and worst when you're out traveling just by default. And so yeah, if if you are just homeschooling and you're sitting at home, you're right. They're not going to be exposed to all of that, right? But that's why you have to do the extra. Nor will a child who goes to public school. They're going to see some toxic weird crap going on in the school, but it's it's like that's not even a good representation of society. It's just this weird little I think it petri dish of weirdness. I think it could be because you're going to have good people and bad people. You're going to have the best and the worst. So, I think in some ways to support her argument, yeah, I could see how sending them to school would it's a warped version of it. In a way, it is. because people of a similar age. Where does that exist in society? It's unnatural in that form because it's peer group based and that's not real to real life because that's the only place that really exists. Even in a workplace, you're generally going to have more diverse peer groups than that. So, it's kind of it is unnatural that way. I agree. And I think because of that unnatural peer group peer grouping it does produce those toxic outcomes you're talking about because we have noticed traveling the world and interacting with thousands and tens and tens of thousands of people that public schoolers tend to always be a little more harsh mean um bullying there's more of that that occurs and I think that happens they're edgy it's it's not a health confidence they lack they lack self-esteem team for peer um approval and actually not I think I know that that comes from being in a group for the majority of your day your time that's pure grace and in fact there's a fantastic book about it that I would highly recommend that's called Hold on to your kids and he talks on this subject so beautifully about how it's so detrimental to a child's mental and emotional health to have this peer-based group as their major influence because they have to have their parents or a mentor figure that can guide them and instruct them. He's like otherwise it's the blind leading the blind and of course they all fall into a ditch because nobody can see. And so it is a really big deal actually like it's a huge deal if your children spend the most of their time with their peers. One, they're not going to listen to you as much because they don't have that attachment relationship with you. And two, they're going to be inappropriately influenced just by even if it's good kids, just by association, just by the fact that they're still children, not adults with wisdom. And that's really what kids need during their formative years. Okay. So, but back to these two other ideas. She doesn't want to be the only teacher and she wants them to experience high levels of learning. Well, the amazing incredible thing about the day that we live in, which was not possible 50 years ago, is that we have the internet. Possible when we started. Yeah, you're right. It wasn't even possible 20 years ago when we started homeschooling. We have access to the internet nowadays. Now, this seriously is life-changing. If if we could fully understand how life-changing this is, I think everyone would be homeschooling. They would if they realized I can have my children can have access to the very best teachers on the planet. Where do I sign up? Like that's what I'm doing. And that's actually what you have. You do not have to worry about ineffective teachers, teachers with toxic ideas, teachers who are just trying to corral the masses because from home you can outsource your children's education and give them literally the best education possible from the very best teachers in the world of all time. Of all time, right? Aided now by AI. Well, AI by online schools by Well, but yeah. So say AI is the supplement, but you can get access to the greatest teachers, thinkers, leaders, instructors, mentors, coaches of all time, and very affordable, readily available. You're not stuck with whoever happens to be at your little local school. Tangent for a second. Besides the fact that I read the book called The Smartest Kids in the World, the US literally has one of the worst education systems on the planet. Well, okay. Okay. There's some pretty bad ones. way. There's some there's definitely ones that are way worse, but the the countries that have the best school systems in the world like Finland, like Scandinavia, like they really value the education level of their teachers. In fact, I think it's Finland where they teachers there get the equivalent of a doctorate. So they become doctors like our doctors do in the United States, but that's so they have the privilege of teaching and then they go through a residency program where they learn how to actually teach effectively as opposed to the United States. They literally I read this book. Okay, this is backed up. It's proven. It's not just my funny ideas. They will allow practically anyone to teach any subject whether or not you studied it or not in college as long as you have a four-year degree. a teaching certificate in a teaching certificate you can teach anything. There's just not high standards for teachers. I think we got to emphasize that a little bit because any any of you who who have a four-year degree, you know, it's a piece of cake. Like it I I got a 40 degree and like it whatever. I like I stayed up late, went spent most of the time snowboarding and rock climbing and mountain biking and dating and like it was I had a blast and I made the deans list every semester went all the way through and this was a a a very good big university and you know well known for its academic rigor and like now obviously I mean it it's easier for me than for some people. I love learning and and learning it comes easily to me. But I I flew through that. I'm like, okay, that that definitely wasn't hard enough to qualify me to be a teacher. Then in addition to that, I went through a 2-year pedigogy program. Like learning how to teach, that was what was critical, right? I learned how to teach for 2 years. I know you and I highly, highly recommend that if there's any way, shape, or form that this is possible, go for it. Try it. Figure it out. Knowing along the way you're going to have to figure things out. You don't have to get stressed about it. You don't have to be controlling. You don't have to be crazy about it. You don't have to fight it or force it. You just set up systems and strategies. Say, "Look, look at these resources. It's good stuff." Like Neil deGrasse Tyson for science and physics and astronomy and the Peterson Academy. Well, yeah. So, across the board, obviously parents are going to be like, "Well, wait, what are those resources?" And you know, I should compile a complete list, but just off the top of my head, my kids currently use Aselis Academy. There's, of course, Con Academy. There's our daughter does Peterson Academy, which is now college level, but you know, just so you know, going into the future, all of MIT's courses are online for free. There's Corsera. There's another one I think it's called like Edu Academy or something. There's Quill for grammar. Quill.org. So there's so many resources out there. It does take some work. Like I think the hard part in this case, especially if you're just starting out, is doing the research to figure out what all the resources are that that's available. There's monster math. There's there's another one that was actually started by Elon Musk. That's a online science and math school. Well, and okay, at this point now, you can also just jump on AI. Just jump on Croc and say, "Hey, I have a I have a nine-year-old. I want to do some homeschool and I want to just have what are the what are the best resources available. They'll kick it out. In less than 30 seconds, you'll have phenomenal list. That's what I did yesterday with my 11-year-old is we were talking about the piano. And I'm like, okay, you're going to have to figure this out. But I'm like, let's use chat to help us come up with some ideas. And so I said, "My 11-year-old wants to teach herself piano. What are some resources?" It gave me six right away. And so we looked through them and then she picked the one that seemed most pleasing to her, right? And so that right there is a tool you can use to help you in your homeschooling in in being quote unquote the teacher or administrator of your own homeschool. In fact, using chat or grock are fantastic ideas because then whenever you're stuck, you just can ask for that like what do I do? How can I help my child learn this subject? And it's going to come up with a ton of ideas. So yeah, that's that's a great resource right there. Okay, she brings up this very important and relevant point that makes sense and I understand with public school it gives me a margin to do the things I need to do for work, right? So, I get that many moms I think do send their kids to school because it gives them the freedom to do other things and that's a legitimate thing. Okay, so your kids are home. Is it possible to still have hours to yourself? Absolutely. 100%. Right. Totally. And we'll talk about that in a second. But I just want to acknowledge that yes, that is a real thing and I I can empathize with that. But the point is if you want this list, if you want the extra list, unfortunately, that's not going to suffice. And that is the truth. Like in order for me to achieve the things I have with my children, I had to make sacrifices. Me, the mom. And some people don't want to do that. Some moms don't want to do that. They don't want to sacrifice their personal time, their personal ambitions for this type of outcome with their children. And so if that's their choice, okay, great. But what I am saying is if you do want this, then you do have to make those sacrifices. But at the same time, there's still a way. Like I still have been able to build my own business. I've still been able to pursue my own things. So there's still a way for me to homeschool, especially when we can use all the resources we have now. now available to us while also pursuing my own thing like it's possible and this this is related to what I was saying earlier about results and method. Yeah. So if you want those results if if you if you hear this list and yes that's what I want then you have to question your methods of saying well but but I like the convenience and comfort of just sending them off and doing my own thing. Well that method is not going to get you the results you want. So, we have to, every single one of us has to be willing to take the good, hard, honest look, the uncomfortable truth of the methods I'm using will not produce the results I want. The results we've been able to produce come handinand with spending lots of time with our kids. Quality and quantity time. That's one of the foundational pieces. If the less time we spend with our kids, the less influence we have over and with our kids. the more time we spend with them, even though initially, like she mentions in here, it feels frightening, it feels like we can't handle it, it feels like it's too much, it feels like we're not enough. Even though initially it's that way, the more time you spend with your kids, those are obstacles that have to be overcome. And in in the process of overcoming them, you actually grow and gain that capability to be able to do that. And that's also how you get the results you want. there's no other way. Like that is the path. So we have to again question our methods if we want to get different results. And one of the methods to get better results with your kids is to actually spend more time with them, not less and doing quality things and and I was writing that down capturing that idea. Yes, doing quality things, but also sometimes even just more time can be more influential. But anyway, yeah, quantity matters. There's no substitute for that. But I just wrote down I just wanted to capture this idea for myself like comfortable convenient methods do not produce extraordinary results. Do I feel the best hours of their weekdays are being taught and led by underpaid teachers corelling the masses? Is learning even happening? Best hours of the day are during those daytime hours. And so it only makes sense that if you want to get this extra effort, these extra results would be to capitalize on those best hours. Right? So then the key is that you use the resources. Is there a way we can homeschool with a better quality education? Yes. By using the resources available to you so that you become the home sourcer, not the homeschooler, not the homeschool teacher, but the home sorcerer. And still create margin for me to get work done and for my kids to have Oh. And then for my kids to have real social experiences. Take your kids out to see the world and interact with other humans. and the full scale extremely wealthy to extremely poor and everything in between all the religions all the cultures take take those are social experiences yeah so there's a couple things I want to say about that one first of all you don't have to necessar if you're sitting here thinking like well I can't do that or I can't afford that well you don't have yes you can if you're sitting thinking you can't yes you can you can there's a way you just have to get intentional about it but first you can also just start locally you can start in your own town like what museums are what site old folks homes, what community centers, you know, even in places in the United States, there's Buddhist temples you could go visit or or Muslim mosque or like get creative and be like, what is what is there around me? What's available? Where where can we do a field trip? You could go to the fire department. You can go like we've done so many different things. Even in places when we were just living in small little towns in the US, you just have to get creative and actually get out of your house and go have experiences with people. All right. So, socially awkward kids, super sheltered kids. Again, if you are at home all the time, they're going to be sheltered, but the key is the key is to get them out into the world. I would like to believe. So, I I keep them at a distance to save to save them from myself. Back to this idea though, the only way through is through. The obstacle is the way. Yes. So if you're afraid of this, the only way to do it is to do it. Okay. This is so powerful and so good for all of us. If there's something I don't like about myself, the response is, well, I'm going to keep my kids over there so they don't pick this up instead of, I should change this about myself so that my kids don't pick it up. Exactly. Again, change the method. Okay. Um, I think just to finish up here that ultimately, you know, I feel don't feel I have enough time to improve on myself to be the mom and teacher I need to be for my kids. If you wait until you feel good enough, like you're a good enough mom, like, okay, now I've been working on my stuff myself. I'm a good enough mom. Now I can handle it. And the kids are gone. Now the Yeah, literally the kids will be gone by the time you get to that point. The only way through is through. Yeah, I love that. Pull the kids out and figure it out. So, if if you want to homeschool, if you want anything on this list, if you want the extra, the best way is to just do it. Just go for it. Literally pull them out and start figuring out. And that's how I did it. Like many times I'm like, "Okay, I don't know what we're doing. We'll figure it out. I don't know how you're learning what you're going to learn, but you're going to come home and we're going to spend time together. We're going to have a relaxed cuz the other amazing part of homeschooling is just the lifestyle piece. Like everything in life becomes a part of the curriculum. So you might even start by like, "Wow, you don't even know how to make your bed. Let's start there. Wow, you're not brushing your teeth very well. Let's start with brushing your teeth." Like that's the curriculum today. You don't know how to make yourself breakfast. Let's do that. You don't know how to get into a mental positive mental state, how to recover negative mental state. Let's do that. So that begins that that's the beginning of your curriculum. That's the basics there. You start with these basic things so that not only are is the goal to get your kids an education, but to help them learn how to live life well, to help them learn how to have good habits. mine and our our primary outcome was always that our kids are genuinely healthy and happy. Exactly. That they enjoy perpetual inner peace and contentment, that they're fulfilled, they live meaningful lives, they're just good human beings who are excited to wake up every morning and live life and do things that actually matter. Very few people live that way. Extremely few people live that way. And so that was our primary target. And so if you think that the most important thing is the academics, then I think you're missing out on the major benefit of being able to homeschool and have an an extraordinary approach like this. I have heard and I've used this myself that one of the best approaches if you're brand new here and you haven't done homeschooling or it's been a while. One of the best things you can do is a period of time that you can call either deschooling or unschooling. And it's essentially like you don't need the curriculum, you don't need the schedule. It's just like let's all just take a break to recover because I'm going to say this, a school life is literally crazy. Like I don't know how people do it. I really don't. We have such a beautiful slow wonderful life morning routine like just rhythm. It's so wonderful. I don't know how people do it where they get up early and get their kids out the door and it's chaos and it's mayhem and it's crazy and it's stress and it's yelling and it's crying. That is no way to live for me. I don't get it and I could not do it. It's so hectic. It's so hectic. It's so crazy. It's so unhealthy mentally, emotionally, physically. Like, it literally, it's physically unhealthy for a child to get up that early. In fact, it's best for all people to not wake up to an alarm at all. That's honestly the best way to live. So, part of this process of again homeschooling is not just about the education. It's about it is about the education, the full holistic education. It's not just about the academics. It's about learning to live. So if you have a period of time where where you deschool, like let's just figure out like let's recover from sleep first of all, right? And actually get some sleep, let's figure out our own body's rhythms and our family's rhythms and like what do we want to be doing and how do we want to be spending our time and what would what would we do if we didn't have to do all the things we have to do right now? part of this. It only works if there's not a lot of tech or devices because otherwise your kids are going to be on their devices the whole time and that's what they'll be doing and that that doesn't count. That's not unschooling. That's not deschooling. That's dangerous. It's just endless entertainment, visual trash. So it has to be I would say as much as possible device free but it's a period of time of just really seriously reconnecting with yourself as a mom them reconnecting with themselves as individuals and reconnecting with the love of learning listening to books and reading and reconnecting as a family right so I think that's a beautiful wonderful way to start a homeschooling journey low pressure no pressure and you get to then introduce things along the way as you feel inspired to do like like reading like okay let's read a book together or let's start reading every night or let's start you know let's start doing crafts from the books we read you know like we read Little House on the Prairie then I got the Little House and Prairie cookbook and we made stuff you know it's like very natural and very interested you know you're following your passion and interest there that spark that we talked about you're lighting the spark that sets the fire not just trying to fill their heads with information and those of you who are overachievers or just high achievers and you're driven and ambitious. You might be sitting here wondering like what about academic rigor. That'll come. Yes, it'll come at the right time. And usually it's not the right time until the later teen years. That's when there's a time for academic rigor. And you like but my kids will be behind and oh, what about this and I want want them to, you know, xyz and we get caught up in all these social expectations of all that. Just chillax. Make sure they love learning and on their own when they hit those teen years, they will start learning like crazy. They'll chase it down and do the hard work because they love learning. Yeah, that that's what I was going to say. I mean, I think really the right time is when that's what they want because it's never the right time if you're forcing them to do it. That just doesn't have good outcomes. So, it's something they want and you think, well, they'll never want that. They will. If you set up this type of environment where the love of learning is natural and and a part of their life and not all of them because not all people are academics and that's okay but the ones who are like they're going to dig into that and thrive with that because they love learning. Awesome. Okay, go for it. Full send. Get clear about what it is you want. Identify the methods that will help you get what you want and then make the sacrifices and the extra effort to become extraordinary. Love you guys. Um again, Rachel has tons of resources on this. Tons. So, it's all built in there and and this is what we do. We have our resources. Um, jump in there, get the stuff, join the groups. Um, do whatever it is you need to do to help create the extraordinary family life that you long for and live for. Love you guys. Reach upward.