Oct. 21, 2025

The Truth About Gentle Parenting — Why Extraordinary Parents Are Using Something Better

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This episode reveals how kind but firm parenting outperforms gentle (often permissive) approaches by pairing empathy with clear boundaries. Greg and Rachel show how to co-regulate big emotions, set respectful limits without yelling or shaming, and use intuition with the right tools so kids feel safe, seen, and guided. If you want connection and cooperation, kind but firm parenting is the balanced blueprint.

Are you tired of hearing about “gentle parenting” — but still want to raise kind, confident, and emotionally intelligent kids?

In this powerful episode, Greg and Rachel Denning unpack The Truth About Gentle Parenting — what works, what backfires, and what extraordinary parents are using instead.

They reveal how gentle parenting often gets misapplied as permissive parenting, leaving parents exhausted, burned out, and unsure how to hold boundaries without becoming authoritarian. The Dennings share a better, more effective approach — one that blends empathy and structure, kindness and firmness, compassion and clarity.

They explain how to develop your parenting intuition, create emotional safety without losing authority, and respond to misbehavior without yelling, punishing, or shaming. You’ll learn how to raise respectful, resilient kids while staying calm, confident, and connected — even in the toughest parenting moments.

Key Takeaways

✅ True “gentle” parenting means connection with boundaries, not permissiveness.

✅ Kids feel safest when parents are both kind and firm.

✅ Respect doesn’t mean letting your child lead — it means guiding with love and clarity.

✅ Emotional awareness + structure = long-term cooperation and trust.

✅ You can’t pour from an empty cup — process your own triggers to parent authentically.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Extraordinary Parenting

12:20 The Nuances of Gentle Parenting

30:41 Pros and Cons of Gentle Parenting

41:02 Navigating Disappointment in Parenting

47:01 The Importance of Setting Expectations

50:10 Balancing Empathy and Boundaries

56:13 Authenticity in Parenting

01:04:20 The Shift Towards Hybrid Parenting

01:17:55 The Path to Effective Parenting

Memorable Quotes

🗣 “You can’t spoil a baby—but you can fail to build trust.”

🗣 “Be kind but firm. Gentle doesn’t mean weak.”

🗣 “Children will push to find the boundaries. When they find them, they feel safe.”

🗣 “Emotions are contagious—if you’re calm, they’ll learn calm.”

🗣 “Parenting isn’t about being perfect. It’s about having the tools and the intuition.”

If you’re ready to stop oscillating between being too soft or too strict — and instead raise emotionally intelligent kids who respect and trust you — this episode will help you find the balance between empathy and authority that extraordinary parents master.

RESOURCES:

Let us help you in your extraordinary family life journey.

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Greg's ⁠⁠Recommended Reading List for Parents & Youth⁠⁠
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0:00

What we're talking about is having the skills and the mindsets, the tools, the intuition to be able to handle whatever is going on and whatever generation you're raising your kids in.

Gentle parenting is equal to what we call permissive parenting.

You and I, and in our family man, we are adamant about respect.

0:19

When is permissive good and when is permissive not a good?

Approach like you cannot spoil a baby.

We literally pass it on because emotions are contagious.

I'm going to be a kind but firm person, Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Live podcast where your host, Greg and Rachel Denning, super crazy excited, OK, about a lot of things.

0:40

We've already we already talked about this.

So if you've heard some episodes, but Rachel and I are working on, we've created and we're still adding to what we hope becomes the best parenting course on planet.

Exactly.

We we want to make this thing just absolutely world class.

0:59

And, and we're, we're already doing it.

We're just going to keep adding to it.

And I was thinking this morning because we got some exciting news from our oldest daughter.

So at, at this point, right, we've been through every, well, every stage of parenting from pregnancy and birth, toddlers all the way through teens, young adults, married, and then the stage where you help your kids have kids, right?

1:29

That's where.

We're going next.

That's where we're going next and we're right on the verge of that awesomesauce.

So it's like we've, we've done all the stages and.

For, I guess, having mature older adult children.

Right.

So we'll keep doing that.

And that's, that's kind of the grandparent phase two.

We're now you're, you're still a parent and A and a grandparent.

1:47

But, but those those other phases we've done and, and with phenomenal results.

Our kids are amazing.

We have a great relationship with them.

They have a great relation with each other.

Or without mistakes or without challenges.

But the point is the emphasis for me is that we have, and this is the way I always think about it for myself, because it's not about being a perfect parent, but it is about having the tools to kind of know what to do when things come up.

2:14

Because things come like you're going to have challenges raising children, they're going to face challenges, You're going to be dealing with emotions and mistakes and making decisions like all of these things are going to happen.

But for me, the comfort is having the tools to be like, OK, we can work through this, we can handle this, we can deal with this, we can make it through this.

2:37

That to me is what it's about, rather than being crushed by whatever life throws at you.

Because, well, and crushed, right?

Because you don't know what to do.

I was actually writing about this yesterday.

Like the one of the most frustrating things in life is, is trying things that don't work and keep trying it and just giving all your effort and energy and everything and it doesn't work and you don't get the results you want.

3:00

And just like what is going on?

And it's most often just the lack of a, of a tool or a strategy that then makes it so much easier.

You're just like, man, that's it's so easy with the right tool.

And I think everyone's experienced that when you need to hammer something in and all you have is a screwdriver or a rock or something like, oh, this is so infuriating.

3:20

It's like you can do it, but it's it's more difficult.

Right, you know, you're trying to build something beautiful and all you have is a hammer and and some old rusty nails.

You're like, man, I could sure go for a nail gun right now with an air compressor and, and all this great stuff, right so.

The right tools make a difference and and can vastly simplify things, just like a power tool can make a job easier.

3:42

But I also sometimes I'm concerned that we still emphasize the tools too much, which is why in some ways I think I'm right.

I'm literally in the process of writing a book called Authentic Parenting.

3:58

Because the other aspect of it that maybe we don't touch on enough, we don't talk about enough, is the whole intuitive side of that, the whole awareness piece.

Because there's one thing to have the right tools, but the other thing is to know when and where and how to use them.

4:15

And which one to use?

And which one to?

Use 'cause you might pull out a sledgehammer when all you needed was a.

Like a little A.

Little chisel.

Teeny little chisel.

So, and for me, that's the intuitive side of it, that's the awareness, that's the sole part of it.

4:30

Well, that's the refined part of it and the finesse of it.

And so I guess I'm, I'm bringing it up now because I, I want to emphasize, especially as we go through this episode, but you know, in all of our episodes and everything we're teaching in our coaching, like I've been trying more to emphasize it that it's not just about the tools.

4:49

Yes, the tools are important and they can make your job so much easier, but having that intuition is even more important.

In fact, if there was one thing you could pick, I would pick the intuition.

Because with intuition you're going to have more power to know what to do than if you have all the tools but no intuition, right?

5:10

Because you'll just be still probably using the wrong tool at the wrong time.

I agree with you.

It's so critical, but like I have this big like flashing warning sign in my head because people do horrendous things in.

The name of intuition.

Yes.

5:26

And they're like, I just got this intuition.

I felt like this is what I should do.

And so they're misinformed.

And intuition often comes after information and inspiration and people.

Educated Intuition.

Yes, exactly.

5:41

It has to be very educated and it has to know like as a as an individual, you have to know what tools are even available.

If, if I know, if I have three tools and I'm living like a caveman and I'm like, I've got some intuition here, I'm gonna use the big rock.

5:57

And it's like, bro, do you even know that all of these other options are available?

Do you even have an understanding of the parenting styles?

Do do you have a, a, a big picture vision of what you want from your kids?

Because if I have no big vision of how I want my kids to turn out, I'm only acting in the moment.

6:15

And my intuition tells me to do this.

But like the the distance of my farsighted thinking is only this weekend or getting through this stage with these kids, then I'm going to, you know, have quote intuition that's wrong.

I'm I'm misguided because all I'm trying to do is manage symptoms instead of get the end result that I want.

6:37

So yes, you're right.

Intuition matters so much.

But people get so misguided thinking it's intuition because their intuition is often uninformed or coming from some negative past experience.

They have some trauma they haven't resolved and their intuition, you know, quote intuition is screaming through the opposite.

6:57

Or they're, they're still so triggered by things that the emotion is a driving force.

They feel like it's intuition.

Yeah, you are so right there.

And I, I feel that it, it is necessary to have an expanded perspective I guess or framework in order to have properly functioning intuition.

7:18

So while you're speaking at like all these thoughts and images are going through my mind.

One of them that came up is the labyrinth, and Greg and I have talked about it before.

The specific labyrinth that we always think of is actually on the floor of a cathedral in Chartreuse, France.

7:33

And it's a labyrinth that in order to get to the middle, you have to walk every part of it, every aspect of it.

N SE W you have to walk all of it to get to the center.

That, to me, is at least my idealized vision of intuition.

7:50

Please put that in your book.

Yes, absolutely.

Like that application specifically, intuition is found at the center of the labyrinth and until and you're trying along the way, but you get really good and accurate intuition once you've walked the whole labyrinth.

8:08

You've been to the far left and to the far right and to the far north and the far South and you've seen the dips and the UPS and the downs and the darkness and the light and, and the all of the experience of life.

Then in the middle you're like, OK, accuracy and the beauty of intuition is so powerful.

8:24

But the thing that came to my mind also while you were speaking is because you said that, you know, you could have some past trauma from your childhood and your quote UN quote intuition tells you to do the opposite from what happened to you.

And what I thought was like, well, in some ways that is true.

That is your intuition.

8:40

Because I've learned from experience that if your intuition tells you to do the opposite, that can start you on a path on the labyrinth.

Labyrinth that takes you to ultimately to the center, but where people get stuck is, and we've seen this time and time again, and this happens with diet, happens with religion, it happens with basically everything.

9:04

They start at one place and their intuition tells them to go to the opposite, but then they stay there forever.

They never change, they never move.

They think that because this was wrong and they got better results when they went here, that that is now the thing that they will forever.

9:21

Do that was the image I just had to so like you go to one side and you're like, I've been enlightened.

And so then you, you're, you're just in that little section of the labyrinth.

When the key is to continue to follow your intuition, even if sometimes, and this has happened to me, it literally takes you back to where you started from and you're like, wait a second, I left this.

9:42

How, how am I coming back?

But that's because to get back there, you've walked the labyrinth and you've returned as a different person.

That's the point.

You have changed and that is the point.

That's the point of intuition too.

9:58

Not that it tells you the right thing to do in the right at the right moment at all times, but that if you continue to follow your intuition, you walk the labyrinth and it transforms you.

As a person, exactly.

So you're, you're completely different, being more informed, wiser.

10:14

Sometimes it warns you what not to do.

Absolutely.

That's the strength of intuition, though.

I was reminded of the teaching by Francis Bacon, who he says, you know, you start studying philosophy and if you only go halfway, you end up left in in the darkness or you become godless.

10:30

Say you become an atheist.

Right, He's like you just don't don't believe in God.

He's like, if you keep following the path of philosophy, it brings you back to God.

And so, but then now you come back with greater faith, greater understanding is is walking the labyrinth well, right exactly spans on the doubts.

10:46

You understand your doubts and you understand your fears in your concerns, but we have to do that.

So going back to them, what we were saying is like, yes, you have to have the tools.

You you've got to have a a big beautiful tool set and you have to have the wisdom and intuition.

11:02

You have to develop your intuition.

And and then knowing how to use the tools skillfully and with the, the art and the refinement of a of a practiced tradesman.

So that probably all sounds really overwhelming to parents, But but that's like if we want to do a phenomenal job, if we want to have extraordinary family life and we want to be world class parents, well, that's what we signed up for, right?

11:28

It's a career.

You thought you were just signing up for sex.

You're like, this is great and a woman.

And a little baby.

And then babies will come.

This is so cute and you feel like you're just getting this little baby that's now you have your little family and like no, no, no, no, what you signed up for?

11:45

Was a career.

Yes, a lifelong career of figuring out how to do the most complicated, the most challenging, and most rewarding.

And important.

Occupation on the planet.

And so it is so, so, so important.

So anyways, we're putting all of that to the intuition, the wisdom, the experiences of all the ages and stages.

12:05

We're incorporating all these lessons, everything we learned with ourselves, things that worked for us and worked for our clients.

We've been a whole people all across the planet for two decades.

We're putting that in that course and today we're going to talk about.

Specifically.

12:21

Well, gentle parenting, but I want to say being gentle as a parent, but knowing when not to be gentle.

And so there's, there's nuance here and we're going to try to give as many specifics as possible so we can fit this in because there's a draw obviously to like, Hey, I want to be gentle.

12:40

I don't want to be screaming and yelling and beating and be the monster or the witch that I never wanted to be.

I want to be friendly and kind.

I want to have a great lift for my kids.

But then you're like, I try that and my kids just ignore me or walk all over me.

12:57

You're like, that crap doesn't work.

But some parents keep doing it.

They're like, well, I want to be gentle and say, OK, I got a pretty example.

We had a sick puppy.

So I took her to the vet yesterday and they, they're like, well, they didn't know what sickness she had.

So they're like, why don't you wait in the parking lot?

13:14

So I sat in the parking lot for two stinking hours waiting.

But I got to observe humanity, all kinds of different humans bringing their animals.

And it was the perfect example of like parenting styles, authoritarian, right and gentle.

13:35

Mostly what I saw was gentle parenting of of their pets.

And I just sat there chuckling because these individuals, they let the animals make all the decisions.

And I could tell them like, man, these animals literally run their lives.

13:51

The owners do what the animal decides it wants to do, wherever it wants to go, however long it wants to stop, like wants to go over there.

So, and so the, you know, I just watched this lady, She's trying to get back to her car.

She's trying to leave, but the dog wanted to look at other things.

And so she's just wandering around doing whatever the dog wants to do.

14:11

And so they're just observing them watch and having met lots of people because I got into dog training like 20 years ago, is watch people get their lives are taken over by their pets and they don't give them any direction or direct.

Well, and I think because we want to talk about this today and I think this is a good place to make a differentiation because especially in that example, and to some people, gentle parenting is equal to permissive, what we call permissive parenting.

14:40

So that's one of the challenges about having a conversation about gentle parenting.

And in fact, I've even posted on Instagram about it.

And I, it's, it's that people don't define it the same way some people would define gentle parenting the way I would describe attachment parenting.

14:56

And some people would define it or act it out in the world like they do it in a way that is what I described permissive parenting.

And like you were just describing that style with the dogs, that's permissive parenting to me.

So just having that differentiation in, in definition is helpful so that we know what we're talking about.

15:17

So we kind of want to walk through these different things.

OK, well how when is this gentle AKA attachment parenting, which I think is a positive thing, attachment style versus gentle AKA permissive.

And when is permissive good if it is and when is permissive not a good approach.

15:37

So yeah, it's.

Good, I think, I think that's, that's the way to distinguish it and and we can use different words like, you know, because people think, wow, I just want to be nice.

I want to be a nice person.

Well, yes, they want to be a nice person.

In fact, yeah, I remember at times during my parenting journey thinking like, the meanest part of me comes out with my family.

15:58

And that's sad, right?

Like nobody really wants that.

They don't want to be the meanest version of them with their kids.

And that's that's pain probably most common.

Yeah.

Maybe that it's with the people we love the most, who matter the most to us, that.

16:14

Bring out the worst.

Of it comes out.

Right.

And so like, I hated that.

And so I'm like, I want to be the best version of myself with my family, right?

That that's the ideal.

We want to be a nice person with our family.

16:29

And yet, as you already touched on, if we do this permissive, gentle parenting, it's like because we want to be nice, then we end up getting walked all over and then we feel like trash.

And and the kids don't turn out because they they have they don't know what to do with themselves.

Yeah, it backfires.

16:45

So I, I guess for this definition, you know, being nice, you know, Mr. Nice Guy or nice, that being nice doesn't work people, they don't respect you if you're nice.

Equate that with.

Permissive.

And if you're permissive, yeah, you get walked all over.

It's like that doesn't work.

But we do want to talk about and we will talk about the nice that's also a.

17:03

Rotative.

So I would say kind.

I like that word.

So if you're just trying to be nice and and be likable, trying to fit in, you want your kids to like you.

That's very different than I'm going to be a kind but firm person.

I'm going to have attachment.

I'm going to have authoritative, which is good, not the dictator.

17:20

Authoritarian.

Right.

And so we're going to walk through this thing and give examples, but we want to acknowledge that it's challenging.

They're going to push the buttons and push the boundaries, and you're going to just feel exhausted and overwhelmed.

They're frustrated and think they're not listening.

17:36

It's not working.

The only time they respond is when I yell, scream or spank or threaten.

OK, Then I get a response and that's when parents like I just.

I'll keep resorting to what works, right?

But the truth is it's not working.

17:51

It's just getting reaction.

Getting short term results, but it's not working and creating the long term relationships that make you want to spend time with your children and want them and them want to spend time with you.

So kind of a little bit of a history of how this well, because the other challenge we're facing facing as parents is that there's also these societal expectations of what parenting should look like, like how it's supposed to be done.

18:16

And especially if you look through the generations, the boomers were a very authoritarian style.

So it was basically like, because I said so, you know, I'm the boss, you need to do it because I'm in charge.

18:34

That was just the approach.

It was like obedience.

Obedience was expected.

Children should be seen and not heard, that type of thing, right?

Well, and use the belt.

Yeah, right.

Just like, you know, there was no hesitation, like you talk back anything, the belt comes off.

18:49

And you expected by society and it was just expected from children to to toe the line.

I think it's important, I know you're going to expound on this a little bit.

I think it's important to just point out what most of us don't think about the, the parenting style.

The, the predominant influence on parenting is social expectations of that generation.

19:09

And that's really, really, really important to understand because we don't know that you're born into it, you're raised a certain way.

And then you think when you become a parent, you're like, I'm going to do it a little bit differently.

And, and your version of different comes from your generation reacting to the previous generation.

And and that's about it.

Maybe you hear a little bit about your grandparents generation, but that that's about it.

19:27

And so most of the the parenting that happens in a generation is influenced by the social expectations of that generation.

And it's really important to see outside of that and the question all the stuff you've heard since you were little because it's just happens to be the the latest trend in parenting.

19:46

Right.

So which then brings us to the next point that then the millennials in response to this authoritarian approach from the boomers.

And it was also a more like there was an emphasis on independence, like children were just expected to be independent.

Which I I think was really, really good.

20:04

Just they'd let the kids, well, go out and play and except go get wander down.

To the definition, because some of this independence is like, well, you should also be making your own meals and you should be handling your own emotions.

Like I don't want to have to deal with you or be involved in that.

20:23

I'm living my own life.

You're right, it's that.

Sort of.

There was a misapplied independence of kind of a disconnection, a lack of attachment.

Neglect.

Yeah, because when we think about the four parenting styles, which we did a podcast about, it's authoritarian, authoritative, permissive and neglectful, that almost that type of independence almost falls into the neglectful category.

20:47

I'm not gonna help you with anything.

You figure it out on your own.

That's Yeah, it's misapplied independence.

Yeah, where I was referring to this.

Right.

Like like letting letting kids.

Have some freedom and free time, yeah?

Where they they can actually go out and build things and get hurt, jump off things and now everything has to be supervised and monitored and super safe.

21:07

Like, no, you can't play with that because somebody might feel bad and so you can't do that.

You can't.

It's like it's so restricted now.

There's no free play.

Right.

OK.

So anyways, the millennials responded to this authoritarian style with specifically what we're like.

21:23

This is where it started is the gentle parenting approach.

And so it was a response to that.

And of course, it in a way it was a pendulum swinging to other side of now it's focusing on, not that this is a bad thing as we're going to talk about it, it can go too far and it did.

21:42

It's focusing on empathy, it's focusing on respect, it's focusing on the emotional connection, all which can be amazing things, all things we should be using in our parenting, but swinging to permissive parenting.

So it's like you're describing with the dogs at the vet, you know, children in fact, become the they rule the roost, you know, and, and you've seen I at least I have, I've seen the videos on Instagram.

22:10

Many of them are satire, making fun of the permissive parent.

That's like, is it OK, the gentle parent?

It's OK if I touch you.

Oh, I know you're feeling big emotions right now.

Oh, you're hitting me because you're so mad.

Let's talk about it.

You know, it, it's gone too far where it is permissive and that's also not healthy for children, right?

22:29

Like children don't really want that.

Children want That's what I was going to know who's in charge.

They want you to be in charge, so.

You're like, oh, I'm just gonna let the kid decide.

Let them choose.

They don't know what to do with it because they're children.

You, you give them all this.

Basically, it's the permissive and the neglectful, and the poor kid just doesn't know.

22:47

Feels like they're in chaos and it's overwhelming to them.

Well, OK, so first I want to talk about now the Gen.

Z essentially, which is where this younger generation, well, I mean, we're Gen.

Z, right?

I keep getting confused.

I don't know either.

23:03

We were born in the late 70s.

Let me, I wrote.

It, but even for context doesn't even matter.

Millennials.

So we're, we are Gen.

No, we're not Gen.

We're, we are in the millennial group.

That's right.

We're right in the end of the millennial group.

No, we're not OK, Gen.

23:19

We're right before the My goodness.

So in between.

The Boomers was Gen.

Is Gen.

And then millennial and.

Then the millennials.

I don't know why they come up with these labels and I guess it doesn't even matter, but the generation after World War 2.

Although, you know, and I've also seen where people say, well, there's kind of a generation in between Gen.

23:39

X and Millennials, which is our generation because we're the first ones who grew up like without Internet and that had Internet type thing.

Which I would say is a unique.

That's a.

That's a very unique one in history.

But what I'm trying to get to is now Gen.

23:56

Z, because I just read an article about this on parents.com and they're talking about how Gen.

Z is moving away from the gentle parenting that their parents, the millennials, were doing, which is just right after it.

Like 1981.

I was born in 79.

24:13

Gen.

Z starts 1997 to 2012.

So our children essentially and others, because our kids started being born in the 2000s are.

See even our families divided by how they divide generations.

24:29

So half of our families in one and our younger kids are now in a different 1 so.

But the article was talking about how Gen.

Z is moving away from the gentle parenting because, well, for one thing, it doesn't work.

And another thing that they mentioned is that it actually produces more parental burnout.

24:48

Like one in three gentle parents complain of burnout because of the large emotional investment required to constantly be kind of letting your child.

Lead but as as.

25:04

And you're there trying to prevent tantrums or try to prevent problems or prevent challenges or whatever, Like you're just always there trying to be gentle.

And nice and unlikeable.

Which actually can lead to burnout because you don't have clear boundaries for yourself specifically.

25:24

That that's when you allow your kids to become the tyrant.

Now you're you as the adult are not acting like the adult in the room.

You're now being victimized by a baby tyrant.

I literally saw it reel on Instagram of this woman crying and she said, I mean, it was very sad because she was sincere, it was real.

25:47

But she was crying talking about how every single day her three and five year old abuse her.

They beat her up, they hit her every single day.

And she was just in tears.

And it was very sad because she was like, what do I do?

And I'm just thinking like, this is so sad.

26:04

One, yeah, it's sad that they're hitting her and abusing her.

Two, it's sad for the children because they're doing that because they feel.

The frustration.

For lack of control.

Exactly a lack of she's.

Not in charge.

As a result, they feel out of control and so that's why they hit.

26:21

It's almost on a subconscious level.

It's like them saying do something about this, take charge.

Like stop making me be the one in charge.

They're reflecting back to her, what she's giving out.

She's like, wait, I'm I'm just trying to be nice and they're hitting me.

How's that reflection?

It's because she has no control or direction.

26:38

She has so they.

Firmness.

Yep, they're reacting like I have no controller direction, so they're out of control because she doesn't.

He doesn't have control and so they're out of control.

Let's I want to use the word boundary.

She doesn't have boundaries and so they don't know where the boundaries are.

26:53

Children will push to find where the boundary is and once they find it, they feel safe and comfortable.

They know what's expected.

There's the bounds allowed.

But if they they can't find that boundary, they will push and push and push to the point of heat hitting you, beating you up because they're like, yeah.

27:11

And then they say, oh, here's the boundary.

Here's the boundary.

That's literally how it works.

They will push until society says, here's the boundary.

We'll give you, you know, we'll put you in prison, right?

But if we as parents show them where that boundary is, that provides safety and confidence for them to be able to then function in a healthy way.

27:35

And those boundaries, little side note here, we could do a whole episode on this, but those boundaries cannot be arbitrary.

You can't just pull them out of a hat and be like, always think this or this one?

No, my grandma said that or I watched this movie one time.

And so we'll just pick a boundary here.

Yeah.

The push is to find where it is that there is a description.

27:51

It has to make sense.

I listened to this guy a long time ago and he was talking about Beowulf, the epic poem.

And it talked about the bottom of the swamp.

Like, because the monster came out and he came and killed all the Knights in the at the feast, and then they killed the monster.

28:09

But all that did was bring up the mother of the monster.

And the whole point was, it was there's always a problem behind the problem and you have to go.

So finally Beowulf went to the bottom of the swamp.

He swam down into the swamp.

He killed the mother monster because that was the source of the problem.

28:27

Your children will push to find the bottom of the swamp.

Like, where's the actual foundation here?

Here's the the real edge.

That's what they want to know.

Yes, and I love that because it forces us as parents to get our crap together.

28:43

Right.

And to ask ourselves hard questions like.

Sway our demons so that our demons aren't raising our kids and, and to get resolved and fill the pit in with concrete for good.

And the kids go looking for the pit and you're like, hey, I took care of it.

28:59

Yeah, there's no pit.

And they're like, oh, OK.

Great.

And now I can be healthy and whole and feel good.

So basically what what's going on here is we have these generations and this has happened since the beginning of time, these generations.

And there's always something different, something new.

29:17

Each generation has some unique thing going on, but life goes on and there's something crazy.

There's a new invention, there's a new technology, there's there's a new societal problem.

There's some kind of disaster, man made or natural, whatever.

There's always something going on in life.

What we're talking about is having the skills and the mindsets, the tools, the intuition to be able to handle whatever's going on in whatever generation you're raising your kids in, to be able to adapt to and and solve and work through problems, challenges, difficulties, etcetera, to raise really great kids.

29:51

Yes, using an approach that's Evergreen, meaning it will work.

You know it'll work consistently regardless of everything else that's going on.

Yes, yes, yes.

So in every generation there's been good parents who realize that and raised great people.

Who were usually outside of society and how society was doing things.

30:10

Right.

They kind of step away from it.

And then in every generation, there's been the masses that this kind of raised trouble and and a mess and, and a lot of dysfunction.

I mean, just dysfunctional families are the norm.

But that doesn't make it OK.

And it's just because they're common, right?

And just because it's an ideal doesn't mean it's impossible to achieve.

30:29

It just requires everything we're talking about here.

Hey there, this is Greg Denning.

We want to reach as many people as possible and help as many families as possible with these conversations.

And we want to keep this podcast ad free forever.

You can help us do that by subscribing on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen your favorite platform and on YouTube and leave a quick review and share your favorite episodes with friends and family.

30:56

It makes a big difference.

Thank you for being a part of this very important movement.

OK, so I do want to go through some of the pros and cons, let's call them of gentle parenting and then weave it into what is a better approach?

31:11

Like what is this more Evergreen approach that we're talking about?

So, you know, of course, the main idea behind gentle parenting is that it emphasizes empathy for your children's feelings, which that's a good thing.

It emphasizes respecting them, which I also think is a good thing.

31:28

And it emphasizes emotional validation, emotional connection, all of those are good things when used within the proper boundaries.

And when understood, it's interesting you and I and in our family mem, we are adamant about respect.

31:45

You just respect human beings, no matter how small they are, even even babies and toddlers.

They deserve respect.

That's often misunderstood.

If I respect them, then some people think that's that's going to get permissive.

I get them to do whatever they want because I'm going to respect him.

32:01

That's not respect, that's trouble.

And that can also be challenging too, because I believe, and Erica Komizer backs this up with her own research that for and Jordan Peterson talks about it, that for a baby under the age of 1, it is basically like giving them whatever they need because you are you're because their needs are like food, sleep, love, play.

32:31

And that's how they form this healthy foundation that will that will I carry them through the rest of life for too many parents because of this, you know, I've I've heard all sorts of stories.

In fact, my own grandmother, you know, it was like a baby was on a schedule and you've but it still happens today.

32:48

I know people that do this and you feed them at 4:00 and that's it.

I don't care if they're crying for two hours before that.

Insanity.

I feed a baby at 4:00 and So what happens?

Come up with those.

There's books about it.

Like I know, I know people who have read the books and like that's what they do.

33:06

They have them on this schedule.

And so that right there is.

Then well, can I just encounter that is so selfish.

It is so selfish of the parent man and so messy.

So there's just there's about massive misapplications.

I don't know, maybe.

33:22

Why?

Why would they do a schedule?

It's so they can keep living their life and do the things they want.

Whatever, but in.

Some ways I think it inhibits their life because I've also seen how it's like, Oh well, the kids have to go to bed at 8:00 and so we can't go out and do anything and everyone has to adjust our.

Schedule Whole family has to go home because one kid has to be asleep.

33:40

All the children whatever have to do this hour.

So I don't know if it's selfishness per SE, as much as it might just be like, I think it's driven from the desire to be a good mother.

And you, again, it's walking the labyrinth where you walk over here and you find this, you're like, this is it.

33:58

This is the truth, order and structure.

This is the opposite of chaos.

And so you implement it and you hold on to it forever.

And then it produces chaos because that doesn't work with children.

And you know, it was all built on the intention of wanting to be a good parent, right?

34:17

So I don't know if it's selfishness.

It's just miss applied good intentions perhaps.

But my point being is I don't know what was the point being what.

Well, it was just that was a trendy thing at that time period of.

It keeps popping up like even.

34:35

So it keeps recurring, but OK, so I guess what we're talking about is like, you cannot spoil a baby.

You have to all of their needs.

And then at that point you start putting boundaries in structures.

You start saying, no, we don't say it was poison and razor blades and we don't play in the road.

34:52

So you start putting up these boundaries.

And of course the kids, the little ones are like, what?

I don't they'll, they'll scream out and react because they're bumping up against the boundary.

When you hold the boundary firmly and you keep redirecting like, okay, then they, they understand and trust the boundary.

And if you do it well, they trust you.

35:09

But if you don't set boundaries or you set boundaries that don't make sense, you lose trust.

This is crazy.

Starting when they're little toddlers, they stop trusting you.

They'll never articulate it.

They won't be at three.

They won't be like, you know what?

35:25

I don't trust you because your boundaries are crap.

OK, but I'm I'm going to even say that it actually starts sooner than that.

That's why the whole thing, that's why I went on that tangent, because that's where the trust begins to build.

If they can trust you to fulfill their needs that they're literally incapable of fulfilling themselves, that's where they begin to build that attachment and that deep trust that this is someone I can count on.

35:52

But if they're screaming at you because they're hungry and they have to scream for two hours?

Because you're on a schedule.

You feed them and they literally have no clue because they can't tell time or understand the concept and now you decide to feed them.

36:08

They just think you're not someone I can trust because you literally make no sense to me.

Yep, and I don't understand the world isn't safe.

And the world's not safe.

And it's.

All arbitrary, right?

I don't get to eat when I'm hungry.

I just I don't know why.

I get to eat.

It's totally out of my control.

And so you build this relationship built on chaos, and that's why they don't trust you.

36:29

That's where it began.

But no child, no baby is going to be able to communicate to that.

To you.

They just cry.

And you don't know that that cry means I can't trust you.

This world isn't safe.

And 100% this will show up later in their tweens and teens, young adults.

36:45

And you think, well, my kids just rebellious.

This is like you created that.

I have heard from multiple people, multiple parents who say my children were great until they turned 3 or 4 and then they were out of control.

And I and I'm in my mind I'm thinking, well that's probably because of things like this when they were a baby or one or two.

37:08

And that relationship of trust wasn't built because their needs were not meant met when they needed to be in met and the boundaries were either too strict and controlling or not there at all.

So, so, and those of you like some of you right now are like, Oh my child, this can all be rebuilt.

37:29

Exactly.

You can rebuild the attachment.

Prepare it all you can you.

Can fix it and have a great relationship, but if you keep going on oscillating between being permissive and the negligent and then a dictator.

Gentle all the time, right?

37:45

Like that's why we're discussing the nuances of this because it helps us to find that perfect yin and Yang balance that becomes this approach that is healing while still rebuilding the trust.

38:02

OK, let me let me talk a couple more things.

So of course, the other emphasis of gentle parenting is no yell at me, no punishment, and no shame.

I actually agree with all of that actually.

There's some rare occasions when you should yell I think.

But yelling should not be a daily or weekly.

38:19

Thing it'd be very.

Rare.

Very rare.

Yeah, so just create this framework in your head.

It's so helpful.

It's like there is a time to yell, but it's extremely rare.

There is a time to punish, but it's actually really extremely rare.

And and most people are going to be like, wait, what?

38:34

No, I punish my kids every day.

That's what parenting is.

No, it's not.

Punishment should be very rare and then shame.

So we're in this generation right now.

It's like no shame, no shame, stop shaming, no shaming.

There is a place for shame.

Well, I'm going very rare.

I'm going to push on that a little bit because I don't think there's a place for a parent shaming their child.

38:55

There is a place for a child to feel shame, but that generally I think occurs because of the circumstances, and our job as parents in that case is to stay out of the way and not protect them from feeling the shame.

That makes sense.

Like it's a little nuanced there.

39:11

So you're not you're saying don't, don't rescue them from feeling the weight of what they've done.

Yes, because a lot of parents step into they're constantly rescuing.

But I would say, and here's here's why I say this.

I bring it up and and I know it.

It's one of those things where people were in this no shaming craze.

39:30

And here's the context.

Like there are very shameful behaviors, right?

And for those things, people should feel ashamed.

But I think that that's what I'm saying.

And I guess where I would, I would share a different perspective because you're saying, well, the parents should stay out of it.

39:48

I think it's a parent's job to teach the child what is shameful, truly shameful.

And this is, these are like sick, horrible behaviors that most children aren't going to be doing, but they need to know, hey, here's the boundary beyond the boundary.

This is the beyond that boundary.

40:05

There's a cesspool of filth, vile, horrible behaviors where one should be very ashamed.

It's interesting in Spanish there's a word called sinberguensa.

Basically it's.

40:20

And it's shameless.

And you you refer it to a person who's just doing terrible things.

You're like, what a that's the adjective or, or that's the description.

Like he says a scene better Gwenza.

He has no shame.

He does things, doesn't feel it.

And that there's there are shameful things where people ought to feel shame.

40:37

So I agree with you and I think in a way that's what I'm saying because when I when I'm saying a parent should not shame their child, I'm meaning because I think it's too common of a parent saying you're so lazy, you're such a bum, you're this, you're that.

40:54

To me, that's a parent shaming their child and that shouldn't be done 100%.

I agree.

They.

Let's say they.

Especially for those things, because those are just learning experiences.

Because you might think, well-being a lazy person is shameful as you go, it's true.

41:11

But as you're going to the stages of childhood development, that's not a lazy person.

Yeah, exactly.

And parents are worried, like, Oh my gosh, my son's going to be a lazy bum.

I need to shame him out of doing this.

But what I'm saying is that doesn't work.

Right?

Exactly.

But what does work is because I'm also not saying that you can't express, let's say, disappointment with your child or expressed sadness or, I don't know, like you can express your own negative emotions towards their behavior without intentionally shaming them.

41:44

Does that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely.

So I'm not going to hold back my words because I don't want them to feel shame.

But I'm also.

Not going to say yes.

Throw them under the bus.

Yes, label them.

Things to them.

I will literally just say like, I'm really disappointed with that and that's about it.

But I'm going to allow them to feel that.

42:02

But I'm not going to say you're such a disappointment too.

That's a very different thing.

Huge distinction right there.

So so.

Important one is intentionally shaming, the other is just allowing them to feel the emotion they should be feeling appropriately.

42:17

That's that's a nuance.

I want to throw in a little warning here because you said something that just reminded me of of what we see often.

For many parents, their whole parenting experience is essentially telling the kids how frustrated, irritated, or disappointed they are, and it's just too much.

42:34

And it's just this burden that kids can't psychologically or emotionally handle.

Well, and it it actually literally creates their self identity, which then of course is a -1.

They have a very low self it.

Just wrecks it.

Because everything you say to your child becomes truth to them.

42:52

Right.

And identity, yeah.

And so I don't want anyone to hear us and say what?

OK, I'm going to let my kids know how disappointed sometimes that's the parents problem.

And they're quote constantly disappointed by their kids like well.

43:07

Maybe you just have the wrong expectations.

That's I or or the wrong strategy or you're not a very effective parent yet.

So your kids behaviors off the chart, but it's not them, it's you.

And so you're like, well, I'm just going to constantly let them know how disappointed I am in them.

They're just wrecks wrecks your relationship.

43:24

It wrecks their identity.

It just this all backfires and so much of it comes back to like, well, you just need to get your own crap together instead of every day you're just endlessly disappointed in your children's behaviors.

Like, wait a minute.

And one of the ways is there's so much to parenting.

We got to go on and on and on.

43:41

One of the reasons that we're constantly disappointed, well, when we have misaligned expectations.

We're too high expectations where we expect them to behave older than.

That's where I was going.

We're not allowing our kids to be kids, to act their age.

No, that's it.

No, I'm really glad you pointed that out because even when I was saying that, I do want to make it clear that just like yelling and punishment, which should be extremely rare, it's also rare when I will say something like that to my child of like, I'm disappointed.

44:13

In fact, I can hardly even think of an example when that's happened.

It should be very rare.

Like, a handful of times.

Yeah, it's not something.

In their entire lifetime with us, all the years in our home, it's a handful of times.

Yeah, it's that.

And so it's not something where like every day I'm disappointed that you spilled the milk or I'm disappointed that you, my daughter today, who's 8, she tracked mud through the whole house up to her apartment.

44:38

And I went up there.

I said, Sandriana, you tracked mud through the house.

And I just said, come with me, let's go clean it.

And I spray it.

And she had the paper challenge.

We wiped up all the mud and that was it.

OK, that's a perfect example where if we're trying to be super nice and gentle, we may not say anything and we'd go clean, you'd go clean up yourself.

44:56

You never say anything.

It's like it's normal.

Or on the other side, you're like, you're such a disappointment.

I've told you, why don't you pay attention?

What's wrong with you?

Don't you know you have mud on your feet?

Just on and on and.

I just wreck them.

Yeah.

And I I was just very clear.

I said Sandriana, and I used her full name.

45:12

Right.

But she knew.

Gets her attention.

Sandriana, you tracked mud through the house.

You need to take your shoes off downstairs.

Did you do it in that tone?

Basically, yeah.

I mean in my head, so.

We get asked her what town it sounded like but we don't.

And then we just cleaned it up and that was it, this.

45:28

Is a perfect.

Example and we moved on.

Cuz some parents overreact to that, some under react and you have to find this balance of just pointing out cuz she was just.

She was clueless.

She literally was.

And well, the cute thing was because I, you know, we live in this resort in Portugal.

45:48

And so she walked through the basement part and up to her apartment, and then took her shoes off at the apartment door because she knows not to wear her shoes in the apartment.

I love it so that.

Was great.

I'm like, you take your shoes off by the door good.

But you tracked mud through the whole resort, you know, and so, but, but again, then we just cleaned it up because that was the point was that it needed to be cleaned up.

46:11

And then that will help her to remember, take my shoes off at this door, especially when I'm out with the puppies in the mud.

So we'll use this example again.

Our whole intention here is to share things that we've done that has worked for us and this has worked great with all of our kids.

Whatever they happen to be doing, you just stop and you say, hey, Sanj.

46:29

This is what you did.

You just tracked mud through the whole house, so come help me clean it up.

That's it, That's the tone.

Those are the words.

And it doesn't have to be.

What's wrong with you?

Why aren't you thinking you know it's not of that because she's a child?

She's 8.

And it's what 8 year olds do.

You could maybe say hey, go clean that up, go do it.

46:48

And that might be a bit much for or depending on the kid they might be able to handle it.

It was a long distance so I wanted to make sure she got.

All the way back.

All of the.

And so, yeah, and and OK, that's a great point that rates you've always been good at is if you want it done a certain way, do it with them.

47:05

Absolutely.

Because if you're hey, go clean it up and then you come back, you didn't even do a good job.

You missed all these foot better and you just perpetuate your own like irritation.

Yeah, instead of like, let's go because.

I have these certain expectations, but I'm not communicating exactly how I want it to be done.

47:22

And so then I end up getting disappointed because they didn't meet the expectations when I I didn't show them.

I didn't communicate my expectations.

Too often that's happening with too many parents.

Are they going back to what we're talking about with the expectations?

47:37

It's like they're getting upset and they're disappointed in their kids because they had these expectations for them, but their kids didn't know that and they're operating at their own level.

And then we're saying, oh, I'm disappointed in you because you failed to meet my expectations that I which.

Weren't even communicated exactly.

47:53

So here's another example of this happens.

And the permissive parent who maybe refers to themselves as a gentle parent or a nice parent and the kid tracks about through the house and they don't want to say anything.

They don't want to make them feel bad.

They don't want to control.

Them or with empathy for the child because I cannot.

48:09

I also have this part of me where I'm like, oh, she's a cute little girl.

She was playing with the puppies.

She went up to get a snack before we go to the gym.

Like I can emphasize with all that and understand that she didn't do it on purpose.

There is no malice.

There was no malice.

She wasn't trying to be bad so I can empathize with that and just think, well I'll just clean it up because I don't want to get after her or I don't want to make her do it.

48:34

And that's where I was going to go is like, no wonder they feel burnt out because they do that day after day after day.

They're following around, cleaning up, doing this massive load of work, and because they're not setting up healthy boundaries and teaching.

Because because what I'm, when I do that, when I did this this morning, what I'm doing is setting the boundary because now it's clear to her, her.

48:57

And in fact, she was telling her brother, mom made a new rule.

We can't wear our shoes past the mud room downstairs.

And she's like, when did you make that rule?

I'm like, well, I made it this morning after you tracked mud.

And that's kind of been a rule for the last year, but.

49:13

It has not been enforced, so that's why we keep.

Reiterating the rules.

Yeah, we keep reminding, especially the younger ones, the older ones get way better at it.

And so you keep doing it.

And and a lot of parents are like, I've told them 10,000 times, all right, keep telling them and keep gently enforcing it until they get it.

49:31

Like parenting, this is the essence of all great parenting is effective teaching and mentoring.

That's what great parenting is.

What what?

And the communication is the teaching and the mentoring.

That's what parenting is.

It's not punishments.

49:47

It's not cleaning up the messes.

It's not even like feeding them and cleaning up after them, doing their laundry and and providing a house and driving them around.

That's so many parents in our generation are caught in that.

That's what they think parenting is.

I drive them everywhere.

50:03

I take care of my buy groceries for my cook.

I clean a washing line, clean up the house.

I provide all this stuff for them.

I'm being a good parent.

That's not parenting.

Anybody can do that stuff.

Parenting is effective teaching and mentoring.

That's what great parenting is.

50:21

And when it's done well, it creates the results we want.

So if I want to be a great parent, I'm constantly looking for and taking advantage of teaching opportunities.

This morning was a perfect one.

OK, so let's go back talking about the gentle parenting because what we just mentioned, the empathy, the respect, the no yelling, the no shaming, like all of that is actually really good for building a secure attachment with your child, building the trust like we already talked about and helping them build their own emotional literacy.

50:51

Because if you, you know, you work on this emotional connection and validation that helps them to understand themselves as human beings with emotions so that they begin to understand how they operate.

And it also helps them to feel safe and seen.

But of course, there are some, let's say, downsides if you only use those if if you think I'm a gentle parent and so I'm only going to do that, which means no yelling, no punishing, no shaming, no, you know, always empathy, always respect, always whatever.

51:29

Then of course, that requires what what it naturally leads to, what we're talking about more permissive parenting because there's fewer boundaries, because whatever it is about being a human, like there's something that requires you to, I'll say harden a little bit to hold a boundary, at least for me as a woman.

51:50

Maybe it's different for men.

Like even even the little scenario I just gave, I had to have a little bit of toughness a little bit, you know what I mean?

In order to hold that boundary a bit.

Because otherwise it's so much easier to me to just kind of be soft and flowy and whatever.

52:08

I have to have a little bit more, if that makes sense, right?

And so I don't know if we're in this I.

Think maybe it's easier for men.

It's easy for me, but I don't know if that's because I'm a man.

I think for men it might be a little bit easier, but I've developed this realizing what no, there has to be boundaries.

52:24

And so I worked on that because, you know, a lot of, but a lot of men are people pleasers too, and, and they want to be liked and they want to be nice.

And so I think that's good in describing that some of us have to.

The best word is firmness.

We have to be a little more firm in order to hold that boundary.

52:43

And so, and it requires the ability to go back and forth from it.

Because I went from because she was downstairs with me.

We were whatever we were, everything was great.

She went up to get a snack, then I checked there's the mud across.

52:59

I had to firm up a little bit, go talk to her, say hey, we need to clean this up and then go back to soft.

Soft, so it's not rigid.

I like that.

It's not rigidity, so it's like this flexible firmness.

So, but if you're in this gentle parenting mindset where you think I always must be gentle and soft, that's why it's more difficult to hold boundaries because you're not becoming firm at any moment.

53:26

And that's, I think that that's what can lead to the burnout for parents because if we're always soft, people end up walking on us and then we get burnt out because there's no, there's no boundaries that are held.

Plus, it also requires an immense amount of emotional strength as a parent to constantly be gentle.

53:49

And that's that's not because.

We're to constantly be rigid.

Well, either one, but I'm maybe, no, I think this is true for dads too, because a lot of dads have, you know, well, I mean, they can be known for having tempers or whatever or whatever.

What I'm saying is that it requires a lot of emotional and mental willpower to constantly be gentle because as human beings, we experience a lot of different emotions.

54:17

We experience frustration, we experience irritation, we experience annoyance and anger.

And part of what I want to call authentic parenting, right, because I'm writing a book about it, is that we appropriately show and share those emotions when we feel them with our children so that they can run develop emotional literacy and to learn how to deal with them.

54:42

Where if we focus on always being gentle all the time, that starts to feel a little fake to.

Everybody.

That was exactly my first.

It's inauthentic exactly, and that's why I think it learns.

It leads to burnout because being inauthentic is exhausting.

54:59

Yeah, I'm seeing, I'm seeing the warning sign again, though.

Yeah, of course you're you're spot off.

That's exactly right.

But some people hear this think, OK, I'm just going to be authentic and I'm going to tell my kids what I'm feeling all the time.

It's like, woo Hoo Hoo.

That's what you realize is, you know, you're depressed all the time, you're irritated all the time, you're angry all the time.

55:20

That has nothing to do with your kids.

It's not about your kids.

It's about your own past.

And because I get to work with, with individuals and couples and families literally every day, I see this all the time where moms or dads, they're, they're feeling these huge emotions and they think it's the kids.

55:36

Well, the kids are just a catalyst.

That's.

They're just triggering A wound.

They are.

Exactly.

And so it's like, so you know, you take a mom who's just oh, like angry and frustrated and disappointed and she hears, I'm, I'm just going to be authentic with my kids in it.

55:52

Tell them not realizing, no, the reason you're so upset is you need to process and resolve and heal a lot of stuff you had before your kids were born or even things that are being brought up.

It's it's the work you have to do that inner work.

So it's so important.

56:08

Yes, you're right.

We have to be authentic to that.

But if we find that we're chronically or perpetually in a negative emotional state, I highly doubt it's the kids.

In fact, it's almost never the kids.

And if the kids behavior is what brings it up, well, that's a chance for for us as parents.

56:28

Rachel, I had to do this right.

We had to do this work like kids are just That's what that's why kids are so awesome is they expose you to all your weaknesses.

Well, that's why family life is awesome, because it's literally like a laboratory for personal growth.

Exactly.

So you get married and you're like, oh, that's my wife.

56:43

You're like, no, it's not.

My wife's just bringing this up so I can address it.

And then we have kids and I was the kids and I wait, no, it's not.

The kids are just bringing up this thing that I need to work on.

And so I keep working on me.

So I love to say work harder on yourself than you do on anything else.

57:00

Just keep working on you.

And every time you're in the family laboratory, it's like, oh, there's another thing.

Oh, there's another thing.

And you keep healing.

And so then that way you can be authentic.

So in our family, Rachel and I and the kids, we are happy, joyful, resilient people the vast majority of the time.

57:21

And if it's off, then there's, hey, there's something off and we talk about it.

Also though, like I want to paint an accurate picture for people because on a daily basis we still also feel frustration, irritation, annoyance, especially because we're working on so many projects.

57:37

So, you know, you're trying to dig a hole in the ground that's of rock or, you know, so you're frustrated about that.

I want to point out that there's frustration, but the difference I think is that you're not putting your frustration on our kids, right?

57:53

We've learned how to separate it out so that we we recognize the source of the frustration and then we don't take it out on other.

Families.

As much as possible.

Not that we're perfect, at least for me, I don't even let it like I don't let it get to me.

58:08

I don't let it become a controlling or dominating factor in my life because because those kind of things, they want to play Monopoly, they want to take over.

And so, you know, I'm out working on a whole and it's just filled with trash.

I'm like, who who would bury all the garbage here?

58:25

And so and my son's out there working with me and the most he's going to see is me.

Like, man, where did I do this stuff?

That's it.

And then I dig the hole and we're out there having a great conversation, having fun, play with the animals.

And we just keep digging the hole and and then things will go wrong and and I fell and crushed my puppy and hurt myself, smashed this whole little enclosure, rebuilt for him.

58:50

And it was I was hurting.

I was frustrated and I I rebuilt the whole thing in the dark.

Yeah.

And I just came back in and was like, oh man, this.

Is what happened.

Crushed my puppy, hope he's OK.

And that was that.

Right?

I don't have to come in and throw things and yell and scream and whine and cry and spend the whole rest of the night and the next morning upset.

59:11

Why?

That's not who I want to be and that's not how I want to experience life.

I want to emphasize this for people because when I, when I realized this, it was an absolute game changer.

I don't have to let those things as the, the circumstances of frustration have a big part of my life, even a significant part.

59:30

I don't have to participate in that.

I don't have to allow it.

I literally get to choose and everyone listening.

You literally get to choose what you experience in life and how you show up and how how you go through life.

59:46

But what I still want to re emphasize for people is that it doesn't mean you're still not having those negative emotions.

The key is you're not staying in those negative emotions.

It's normal to fill them.

It's normally frustrated and irritated and annoyed about things.

1:00:03

That's normal.

The problem is when we get stuck there.

And then spread it to everyone else in the family.

That's the problem.

We absorb it.

Yeah, we, we absorb it and then we literally pass it on because emotions are contagious.

So we have learned how to, and now at this point, quickly, like what you've described, you have learned how to quickly process those negative emotions so that you can remove most or all of them before you come in to interact with the family.

1:00:32

So it doesn't spread.

Of course, people are like, well, how do you do that?

Well, there's a lot of strategies for doing it, but as you get better and better at it, it can become very fast like it.

Happens almost instantaneous.

Sometimes instantaneous if you've never done this before though.

1:00:49

That's the path of emotional mastery.

Right.

If you've never done this before, I found that one of the best ways to do it is by writing.

Writing on scratch pieces of paper or something.

Writing ugly.

All the negative, all the ugly thoughts and then just throwing it away like that is one way of literally processing the negative emotions.

1:01:08

Now, if you have a lot of stacked emotions that keep coming up when your kids trigger you, but they're.

Misbehavior.

Regular writing.

A lot of writing you may need to write every single day.

But.

I would.

Highly recommend that.

Like if if you've got lots of past of you, you're constantly feeling in negative state.

1:01:25

Well, is that you feel angry and annoyed and triggered by things all the time.

Then do the writing.

Sorry, I'm interrupting you.

That's exactly what I was gonna say, right?

Literally.

And I tell people this when I'm working with clients.

In fact, I just met with clients just a couple days ago.

I'm like, look, this is non negotiable for you.

You have to process all these just pretty terrible things that happened to you recently.

1:01:44

If you don't, they will stay bottled up and you'll just spread them for years to your wife, to your children, to anyone you associate with.

Get that crap out of your soul and and do it by vomiting on paper and hard workouts and sauna sessions.

1:02:02

I mean, you're just processing all the garbage.

So it's not a part of you.

And trust me, you guys, I had to do that.

I had a lot of baggage and a lot of crap from decisions my parents had made and and moving out early and just suffering things as as a youth and I kept hold of that.

1:02:20

It would have just spread to to Rachel and my kids, but I got rid of it before I even met Rage.

And and continue to work on it.

Right.

It's when something came up, I was like, oh, OK, that's got to go.

Right.

And So what happens, though, the beautiful thing that happens when you do that is then you get to a point where you're not triggered by your children's behavior because it's not pulling up something from.

1:02:45

Because you removed the triggers.

Because you removed it.

And so now you're, you're more level headed, you're more clear headed.

You'll be able to observe this behavior, you know, detached and you make better decisions about how to parent because you don't have all of this this emotional stacking that you're dealing with.

1:03:05

You know it's and.

So you parent in a very different way, right?

A good visual for this is those, I don't know what they're called, the little thing that measures seismic movements and measures earthquakes like the old school one when the heart monitor is always gone.

Where the you know, if there's if there's a tiny little movement just like just, yeah, just a little shift in the plates and just a little blurp on the screen.

1:03:25

Otherwise it's flat.

And then oop, little blurp.

And some people right now, it's like the kids drop the milk and boom, it's like it's a six, you know, a, a 6.5 earthquake.

And I'm giving this as a literal example that happened a few months ago.

1:03:42

Dad comes home and the little girl had, you know, she was being creative in the kitchen.

She's like 3 and just he lose over the milk and, and, and I get it.

I understand, especially as a provider.

And you're like, I, I had to pay for that and everything's expensive.

1:03:58

Food's expensive and I had to work for that.

And you just a whole gallon.

And so like this little thing is like, that's way too much.

So pull that way, way, way back.

And, and the vast majority of people do it.

And it's for different things.

You, you might say, I never get upset about the milk, but then the electricity gets left on.

1:04:16

These are all the things dads do.

The lights on the door got left open again.

And then there's mosquitoes or flies coming in or, you know, whatever.

All the AC is going.

Out you went out you played in the car and you left the interior light on in the car and the doors unlocked and went out in the morning.

1:04:33

The battery's dead.

You know, what are these?

Kids are kids and spouses are spouses.

But you start bringing that back to where even if it, you know, OK, that cost us 1000 bucks or five or ten.

That sucks, but I'm not going to blow a gasket.

And so all of this we're trying to fit into the gentle parenting, which we're now a moving to authentic parenting.

1:04:55

Like we want to be authentic, but part of that authenticity, like you're talking about warning sign.

That doesn't mean have a 6.5 over the milk.

What it means is in this authentic journey, processing your own past, your own childhood trauma so that you can respond appropriately.

1:05:15

You can respond with firmness, Maybe you respond with A1 on on the Richter scale as necessary when needed.

But it happens intentionally by choice, not because you are reacting to your own inner wounds.

Yes, Rachel, that's huge.

1:05:32

I choose my response instead of just react.

Yes, out of control.

That's where that's the golden ticket right here to really phenomenal parenting.

Where the gentle parenting movement is focusing on calmness and gentleness at all times.

1:05:49

Which is often pretended we've had parents say.

Exactly.

Pretended it has to be pretended.

I'm pretend it's all the time to.

Not be upset.

Yeah, I didn't show my kids how upset I was.

You'll say things like, well, did you remain calm during the day?

I tried to remain calm or or I'm making an effort to be calm and we're.

1:06:09

Always calling in front of the kids.

I'm like, yeah, but you're furious.

Yeah.

On a calm face is not the same as being actual.

Calmness feels like calm.

So you're either are calm or you're not.

No, no matter what the facade is showing, you know you're either one or the other.

1:06:26

So.

I love that.

So that's why, you know, now we want to talk about the pivot that's being made by many parents by supposedly by Gen.

Z, according to parents.com, where I.

Don't know.

Yeah, you know, well, at least in the article, they're, they're recognizing that this one-size-fits-all approach like, oh, gentle parenting, one-size-fits-all.

1:06:52

I'm going to do it with every child, every time, every interaction.

They're recognizing at least that that's not working.

And So what the article said is that they're switching to a hybrid parenting.

It did not specifically say that they were moving to authoritative parenting, which is what, you know, we emphasize and like to talk about.

1:07:09

But they were doing more of a hybrid where they're recognizing, you know what, I can kind of pick and choose strategies here and use what works kind of the toolbox.

Use what it?

Works for the child, for the situation, for the whatever, rather than gentle parenting all the time I.

1:07:26

Hope that's true, but it requires awareness like you and I talk about all the time, you know, requires awareness that that there's even parenting strategies or philosophies or different ways to handle things, that there's different tools and abilities that you can change that you can choose.

That has to be that awareness.

And now people listening as podcasts, like kudos to you guys.

1:07:43

You're sitting here listening to a parenting podcast That's fantastic.

You're a unique group.

The vast majority of parents don't read books.

They don't listen to podcasts, They don't they're just it's social media, they're unconscious.

So it's it's that scale of unconscious incompetence.

1:08:01

They don't even know that they're showing up as permissive or negligent parents subconsciously doing what they do.

And and so that requires a sense of awareness to say, hey, wait a minute, what what would be more effective?

1:08:16

What would actually work better?

So I guess what we kind of want to emphasize and close on is specifically talking about from our perspective and work with our own children, work with clients.

The approach that does work best is what we call the authoritative parenting style, which is, is that balanced?

1:08:36

I love the yin and Yang between empathy and structure like, you know, empathy and emotions and attachment and boundaries, firmness structure like you need to have both in order for you to have really effective parenting.

1:08:51

I love using the words for me personally as being firm and kind, right?

And I can be both simultaneously.

They are not in opposition.

I can be exclusive, right?

Exactly so I.

You can literally be firm and kind at the same time and.

Kind a lot of people I talk to are like, hell, you can't, you can't do it.

1:09:08

And it's obvious because they think and I remember him going through this.

I'm like, the only way I can hold this boundary is by yelling or threatening.

And and I, it took me some time to work through that.

It's like, wait a minute, no, I can totally hold the boundary literally while smiling and meaning it.

I wasn't a fake smile.

I can be happy, I can be jovial, I can be joyful.

1:09:28

I can even just be neutral.

I can be sincerely calm and like, Nope, I'm going to hold this boundary here.

I think one of the reasons people struggle with this for me as I'm thinking about it, I think This is why I even can struggle with it is because most people equate being kind with being comfortable.

1:09:48

If you comfortable in meaning you're not making another people, another person feel uncomfortable or making yourself feel uncomfortable.

But the reality is you can practice kindness and still be uncomfortable, right?

But we we think that you can't.

1:10:03

We think kindness equals.

Everybody feels comfortable.

Because we we confuse it with being nice.

Yes, where we need to kind of reshift that of like, like I can be kind and still make you uncomfortable and maybe make myself uncomfortable with what I'm saying by holding this boundary, but I'm being kind in the way I'm doing it.

1:10:22

Meaning I'm not yelling, I'm not screaming, I'm not shaming, I'm not belittling, I'm being kind.

But you may.

But that boundary is not moving.

Boundary I'm holding.

We learned that with our with our toddlers, when they would want to, it was our oldest ones and they would try to blow a gasket.

1:10:40

We were trying to figure out like, OK, how do we remove tantrums for good?

How do we hold a gentle boundary for little kids?

You know, let them be their age, but not let them act like animals.

And not let them hurt themselves or hurt.

Or hurt other people.

1:10:55

The hitting, the biting, the destroying things, making messes like, well, that's unacceptable.

How do I sit here as a, as a father, not get angry, not blow gasket myself, just stay calm, good love the kid and set up a gentle boundary while they're like inside this gentle boundary, like just losing it and screaming and yelling and fighting and kicking and biting and going nuts.

1:11:21

And, and I learned how to do this.

And this is where I learned this principle of like, I could sit there loving them, like, and I genuinely, my heart and mind were in a good place.

I wasn't mad, I wasn't upset, nothing.

I'm just sitting there with them and they're bonkers, right?

1:11:39

They're going nuts.

And I'm like, come here.

You know, we can't do that.

You know, you can't hit me now, you can't bite.

Come here.

As soon as you take a breath and calm down, we go back to playing.

We go back to stuff.

But I'm not going to leave you out there playing or, you know, in a public place, wherever, when you're just acting like a wild animal.

1:11:59

Yeah.

So that's where we learn to be kind and fun.

Right.

So especially when they're young and, and I think that this of course works best when they're young.

It's easier to teach this specific principle than when they're older and bigger than you, of course.

But we, we would either one physically move them from one place to another.

1:12:19

So it's almost like, OK, here's the consequence, you're acting out.

Let's take you to a place where you can act out in a safe.

So removing them is the firm boundary.

How you remove them reflects kindness or not.

We've seen so many parents like they are mean the way they move them, so meaning jerk them and grab them, yell at them and scold them is make them feel horrible.

1:12:43

We've seen so many examples of that.

It was like, no, I'm, I'm removing you, right?

Literally just pick them up and take them out.

And then one, one option is you just have them stay in A room or a bathroom or something, you know, you keep them contained in that area.

And it's the idea of you're upset, you're feeling this way.

1:13:01

You know, when you are ready to calm down, we can return to the group or we can return to the family or the other thing.

Like you're saying, let's point out.

Physically restrain them, like on your lap or something.

Again with calmness, with peace, with love whispering in their ear, telling them hey.

1:13:18

OK, you're good.

And, and I think it's important emphasize here, it's OK.

We have to tell the kid it's OK to feel frustrated and angry and upset.

Like all this emotion you're feeling.

That's OK.

We're not telling you to be numb.

We're not telling you you're wrong.

We're saying you can't behave like that.

1:13:33

You can't treat other people like that.

You can't.

Because you're frustrated you can't hit your sister or you can't bite or you can't throw things.

So we're differentiating the emotion itself between the behavior and and showing them.

And we've even done it.

If you want to come in here and punch this punching bag or punch this pillow, great, That's fine.

1:13:51

You can't punch other people, right?

And so when they're young, we're physically helping them with that.

And then they're.

Helping them self regulate because I am calm, because I'm in a good place emotionally, It helps them self regulate well, Co regulate very quickly.

1:14:09

Yeah, because they're like, well, that's totally chill.

You're speaking they're.

Like they just chill out and they're good.

And after a couple times they don't do it anymore.

Yeah.

And so it's, it's been years and years and years and years since our kids have had any big emotional blow UPS.

1:14:26

Yeah, where they're acting out in that way, not to be confused with having big emotions because they still have big emotions, but they've become very good at articulating them.

Even our like 8 year old can say I'm feeling like this because you know and she just explains what she's feeling and why so we can actually resolve it instead of there needing to be a meltdown.

1:14:48

And they can have big emotions and still maintain proper behaviors.

Yes.

So, yeah.

So in this, you know, hybrid authoritative approach, we're we're integrating the empathy, the validation, the the emotional presence of a parent, but we're also ensuring that we have the boundaries, we have the consequences.

1:15:12

We're clear on communicating what those are.

So there's not community or confusion.

And then we're also dealing with our own, you know, reflecting on our own traumas, our own wounds, trying to break some of those cycles that came from the past.

1:15:28

Like, that has to be integrated into the parenting as well.

Because like you already brought up, you know, we might be frustrated and annoyed and irritated.

And really, it's because of something that happened when we were a kid.

And our child's behavior is reminding us of it.

And it really isn't about the child and their behavior.

1:15:44

It's about our own healing that needs to occur.

Can even, It can even happen.

I've noticed something that completely unrelated to the kids that's going on for me.

A frustration with work, a frustration with the government.

Trying to do anything with any government on the planet is so inefficient and effective.

1:16:03

And they're bureaucracy.

And so you might just be all worked up about bureaucracy and your kids, like, Dad, can you help me this?

And you're like, it's like, no, it's not the kid.

Yeah, it's, it's whatever's going on.

And so we have to resolve those things quickly and keep them segmented.

1:16:18

Yeah, in a way.

It's my disdain for bureaucracy does not have to come out emotionally on my kids.

Exactly.

But I think the biggest benefit for taking this approach, the authoritative parenting approach, which is to me a hybrid approach, is that it becomes way more sustainable.

1:16:37

Because we have seen in so many parents when they pick and you know, whether it's the gentle parenting approach or whatever, they pick one parenting strategy and they just feel like they have to always do it that way.

Like this is the way I do it.

1:16:52

This is the way I always do it.

There's no flexibility.

They're rigid.

Rigid, rigid, rigid.

And that's the irony.

You could be rigid in your gentle parenting because you're not willing to adjust or change when necessary.

And at least in my experience, it's that rigidity with whatever approach I've come up with that then begins to seed problems in my children, right?

1:17:21

And the way they turn out, because I'm not willing to adjust myself and adjust my approach to the child, to the situation, whatever, you know, using that developed intuition to be willing to do something totally different.

Where if my intuition tells me, hey, this is where how I would do it based on all of my parenting studying, But my intuition is telling me to do the opposite.

1:17:45

I need to do the opposite, right?

Because that could be the very thing that that kid needs in that moment.

Now, of course, there's a lot we've already talked about.

There's a lot going on there.

There's a lot of layers here.

Because that's the right strategy, with the right tool, with the right timing, the right tone.

1:18:02

Exactly.

That's actually, that's the parenting approach that works best.

But it requires you to integrate everything we've talked about, right?

And requires you to integrate the intuition and to continually develop the intuition and to walk the labyrinth, and then to know what the tools are that are available, and then to understand your child and to know which tool to use in the moment.

1:18:22

And that's why we've created a master class and a weekly coaching program.

The beauty of that is that there's actually a simplicity on the far side of that complexity.

It sounds very complex, but when you learn how to do it, it actually becomes so much simpler.

1:18:40

Like it's actually way easier than what you're currently doing.

And I know that from my own experience because I know what it was like to parent the way I used to parent versus now how a parent.

Was exhausting.

Yeah, it's exhausting because it's inauthentic and you're trying to put a square peg into a round hole.

1:18:59

With that rigidity, too many parents, this is interesting.

Like a lot of parents are just super soft and squishy.

They're just the permissive negligent parents and they're just, they're getting taken advantage of.

There's there's no boundaries, there's nothing there, there's no substance.

And not not they're bad people, but it's just their parenting is ineffective.

1:19:19

And then there's all these really good parents we meet all the time.

And these are really good people.

They're ambitious people, driven, successful people.

And and somehow they've gotten this idea of like, I've got to be really rigid and really strict.

And if I hold this rigidity, it'll work out.

1:19:36

My kids will turn out.

What happens is the kids, they get broken against that rigidity, those hard walls and they fight for their freedom and they often rebel and they do these secretly living this separate life.

So the parents don't know about it because the parents are so strict and so rigid and, and all of that either extreme there is just so exhausting and and ineffective.

1:20:00

So anyways, we'll wrap up there well.

Yeah.

So just to close into the take away, I think I want to emphasize because even when I'm using the authoritative style, right, I'm using that wording.

I want to emphasize that in many ways the approach, the the approach that works best is not a one-size-fits-all approach because children are not one-size-fits-all and no family is 1 size fits all.

1:20:28

So, so while we're talking about this authoritative approach, to me, what it means is there's a lot of different things going on.

Like it's going to look different for every parent and every child and every situation.

But the, the underlying core or principle lying here is this intuitive use of the right tools at the right time, right?

1:20:51

You know that's.

Literally what I just wrote down.

I was thinking it's like you have to learn how to only use what is necessary for the moment.

Yes, exactly, which only comes from developing your intuition and your awareness of the tools available and how to use them properly right now.

1:21:14

Of course, that is why and what we do in our coaching and what we're teaching because it, I'm not going to lie, it is simplicity on the far side of complexity does require you to learn a lot of things.

I mean, just like, that's why I love to compare this to a career.

1:21:33

If you're going to be good at a career, anyone who knows this, anyone who has a career knows there's a lot of things you have to learn and many things you have to master.

And parenting is no different.

There's a lot you do need to learn and there's a lot you need to master.

Now, it's not impossible, it's totally doable, but it does require.

1:21:53

Effort.

Effort and an investment of time.

As with.

Anything right?

It's worth it.

So it's worth an effort and investment you put into this.

But ultimately that approach, this kind of hybrid authoritative approach, or it's not one-size-fits-all, is what works best.

1:22:09

It produces by far the best results.

Not only are we, you know, only saying this because of our own family, but people we've learned about, studied about, read about people we've worked with.

Like when you use a customized approach to each child that produces the best results, which of course includes the long term meaningful deep relationships that you have with your children.

1:22:37

Who become superb?

Human beings, when they become adults, like that's, that's to me is the best part that we're really just getting into now is that we have these amazing adult children.

We are now friends that we continue to have relationships.

With and so I just love it.

1:22:53

The greatest joys in life.

It's amazing.

Yeah.

Love you guys.

Thanks for listening.

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