Guiding vs. Controlling: Routines that Raise Self-Directed Kids

The more we try to control certain outcomes, the less we get the outcomes we want. Stick on the path you want and figure out how to fix the things. The obstacle is the way. Like I never intended to be the crazy person. Those challenges are what will make you become this best version of yourself. We have to have quality and quantity. That is the key to achieving the vision that you want. Welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We are your hosts, Greg and Rachel Denning. And as always, doing everything in our power to help you create your extraordinary family life and wake up every day happy, well, joyful, excited, fulfilled, like looking forward to living the life you dream of instead of, as in some cases, the nightmare you're living in, right? Because you're living the family dream. All right, so let's just dive right in. We got an absolutely phenomenal question. We want to talk about specifically the controlling, being the best mom that you can, fulfilling that role, not being overwhelmed, not being frustrated, or at least mitigating that overwhelm and frustration. That's the aspect that we want to dive in today. There's these two big parts. One is getting clear on like what it is we really want for our families. So, everyone listening is like you you have to get clarity. What's your target? What's your goal? What's the long game? What's the vision? What's the vision? And you've got to have a vision. Yeah, because without a vision people people perish right from right from the the good book and families perish, individuals perish and and life perishes. It's just it's lame. And you can't hit a target you don't have and you can't hit a target you can't see as humans and and they're learning this by the way computers and artificial intelligent intelligence works. We cannot even move forward unless we have a clear vision. Now, that of course includes micro visions which connect into the bigger visions, but like I can't go to pick up a cup to drink from it unless I have a clear vision of what I'm doing. And we think that, oh, that's just automatic. I don't even have to think about it. But when we're children, especially when we're learning that skill so that then it does become automatic. That's how our systems work. It has to have a very clear and specific vision. And I know for me especially whenever my vision is muddy, that's when I feel the most overwhelm. It's when I have a very clear vision and I know exactly how, which I think you're going to get to next, exactly how to do it, what to work on to get that to move towards that vision. That's when I feel the most clarity, certainty, purpose, confidence, peace in my life. That's what I want to say right off the gates here. Get clear on what you want and then address the obstacles that are in the way. Don't deviate. Sometimes we see what we want, we see an obstacle, we feel overwhelmed, we feel like we're like, I struggle with that, so I'm just going to go over here. And we take a tangent. And what we're doing is acquiescing. We're settling in away. We're avoiding. We're doing whatever. And we're like, that's really truly the path I want to go up, but I know it'll be hard for me and I can see the obstacles, so I'm going to take this other path over here. And that at the time seems a little bit easier, a little simpler, a little more straightforward. All of the things. Yeah. But ultimately, that path doesn't take you one where you want to go. So one goes up to the summit, the other just goes around the mountain perpetually. And you're like, man, I really want to go up there, but that looks hard, so I'm just going to I'll take this one over here. And so you just go round and round the mountain and and your whole life you'll live with disappointments. Yeah. And frustrations because you never summited. You never went up where you wanted to go. And you're like, "Well, yeah, but if I go up, that means I have to face these obstacles. I have to overcome my weaknesses." Yeah, exactly. That's great. And that's why Rachel and I do what we do. We're going to give you the tools and strategies to get through those obstacles and around those obstacles and over those obstacles and and overcome your weaknesses. It's all through leverage and and tools and systems. So you get the right systems in place, you're like, "Oh, there goes the problem." that was preventing me from what I really wanted. There's a book out there by this title called The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday and he took his entire prem premise from I think it's Marcus and the wording is in exactly the same the impediment. He says Marcus wrote in his personal journal, we we often think the impediment is in the way, stands in the way, but but the impediment is the way, right? And essentially what that means is that the very thing that we are afraid of, the very thing that's overwhelming us when we face it head on and move into it and lean into it, that is the thing that actually helps us grow into the person who can then achieve whatever it is we envision achieving. Right? So she has this beautiful vision here of what she would like to achieve. And because of the obstacles, yeah, hinges on her working through those obstacles. So, you know, currently because of the obstacles, which are legitimate obstacles, she kind of buffers to this other path. But the key is what people often don't understand that you talk about in your coaching a lot is no, head back onto that path you want. Lean into those challenges and those challenges are what will make you become this best version of yourself. Exactly. So that you can have this dream that you achieve. Exactly. So the extraordinary family life you want is on the other side of those very obstacles. And in this case, well, as it's so relatable, getting overwhelmed, not knowing how to do it, knowing how to mold the outcomes you want without being controlling. I think controlling was the other one. It's like, "Oh, I'll be too controlling." How to do all of that without being mean. Mhm. And being a crazy person. Like, I never intended to be the crazy person. I, you know, I want a great relationship with my kids. I want my kids to have a great education. Like, ah, I don't know how to do it. I I know my tendencies, so maybe I'll take this other path. And we're saying, "No, stick on the path you want and figure out how to fix the things." And that's why we're here to help. Right. Exactly. So, I guess the big thing is like you're not alone. And the people listening, I'm sure, can relate like, "Yeah, I I want all these great things, too." And wow, uh, it's a lot. Yeah. So, I love this here, though, because almost right away in the first paragraph, she says that she is driven and focused and successful with a desire to slow down and be the best mom I can be for my kids, to be more present. And so she's she's recognizing that dissonance that's occurring like well I am all of these things and I you know apparently she's good at it and it's fulfilling and it's motivating but at the same time she's noticing well wait I'm not that present with my kids by going too fast right because kids do require that they require that that slowness you know for us to be with them in the moment and presence yeah and our presence and man I I got to I got to drop a hammer here. So many people, especially ambitious people, are are shouting this message of quality over quantity. And I say bogus. That is an absolute myth. And if you think a little bit of quality time will be enough for your extraordinary family life, you are delusional. They need quantity as well. So we have to have quality and quantity. Yeah. especially during key developmental phases of a child's life, which is 0 to 25. Pretty much it is like let's just let's just be real. That's the uncomfortable truth, right? You need to be Yeah. No, that doesn't mean that there's times as they grow where you'll have more freedom to work on, you know, growing your business and doing all these other things. But certainly for sure 0 to three and I would even say 0 to six you need to be there as much as possible so that the attachment and the bond will build because the more you and I have somehow figured this out in our parenting journey and we're able to parent this way and now we're finding the work of researchers which are supporting this. That is the key to achieving the vision that you want. Whatever vision you have with your family, if you could boil it down to its essence, it would be attachment. You learn how to truly attach with your children and you will be able to achieve connection is probably a word we would use more than attachment. Yeah. But I'm I'm liking that word more and more. Attachment, bonding, connection, building the emotional bank account. I mean, there's a lot of different ways to word it, but at its essence, if you focus on that, you will be able to do all the other things you want to do with creating your extraordinary family life because you will have the bond, the attachment required to be able to help facilitate those things happening. The first thing she says though is is really important for ambitious driven people is we have to force ourselves to stop. We have to be able to turn it off. And and entrepreneurs, business owners, high achievers are like, I just go go. Like, no, you have to set up your own boundaries. Now, the the great thing about having your own business, like she says, is like, I don't have a boss telling me when I have to work. Yeah. But you also h you also don't have somebody telling you. You also don't have a boss telling you when to not work, like go home, stop. So, you actually have to put your own boundaries in place and honor your boundaries. That's why it's so important to create a plan and honor the plan. to create a schedule and honor the schedule and set up systems that help you keep your boundaries and your commitments. So, as important it is to get the work in, it's just as important to stop doing turn off from work. And so, you're either fully engaged or strategically disengaged. And I think that that that is also so important for your children as well because as you are building a bond and a relationship and attachment with your child, they need to know what to expect from you and they need to be able to trust what you say you will do. So if you tell them, hey, I'm going to work until this time and you don't honor that, you're breaking your attachment with your child and destroying trust and destroying trust, which is a foundation for that. So, you have to set up those boundaries and then you have to honor those boundaries, not only for your own well-being, but for the development of that attachment relationship with your child. Hey there, this is Greg Denning. We want to reach as many people as possible and help as many families as possible with these conversations and we want to keep this podcast ad free forever. You can help us do that by subscribing on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen, your favorite platform and on YouTube and leave a quick review and and share your favorite episodes with friends and family. It makes a big difference. Thank you for being a part of this very important movement. As we're giving strategies here, this is a strategy that you and I use. For me, I call it time chunking just because I don't know that works for me. But I have chunks of time throughout my day and I honor those chunks. So I start with the morning chunk of the morning routine. Then we do workout time which we often do as a family. Not necessarily everyone but a lot of everyone is there. Then we do breakfast and devotional time as a family which leads right into their studies. Although a lot of my kids get up and do their studies right away, so they're often done by then. And then I go to my work time, right? And so then we spend time working and that chunk of time is dedicated to work. And so if the kids come in and want or need something within reason, you know, I'll help them out. But otherwise, I say, "No, this is now my work time. So I will help you with that or I'll do that with you afterwards after I'm done working. We'll do it in the evening." Because the evening time is also then another chunk of family time. And I found, at least for me, that having that dedicated time almost every day, because it doesn't necessarily happen every day, like that just helps me feel this sense of what she wants. Like she has a desired outcome from wanting to do these things. This sense of like I'm doing a good job. I'm fulfilling my role as a mom. I'm enjoying my children's life. I get that sense when I practice these things and when I have that chunk of time to be able to be present with well and that way because because what's happening is you're you're meeting all your needs and desires and their needs and desires and my business's needs and desires. Exactly. all of the things are being met. And it all comes down to being more strategic, like having marked, dedicated time to work well and to do all the things you need to do where most of us are just frazzled and crazy and putting out fires everywhere and running around and it's chaotic. It's hectic. It's overwhelming and and we're just a frazzled mess. Instead of calm, strategic, deliberate, deliberate, thoughtful, like, I know what I'm going to do. I know what I need to do next. I'm going to do it. Like, and I want I want to invite all of you to lean into this idea that even in the midst of chaos, which family life is chaotic, and then if you own a business on top of that, there's a lot of chaos. It's possible, in fact, preferable to be calm and operate with a sense of urgency, but just keep your cool. There's no reason to just lose it. Well, and it's very fascinating to me as well because you you don't realize this when you're in it, but when you step back and when you study it, it's actually better for us to operate that way. A lot of times, I know I especially used to do this, but I can still be tempted to do this sometimes. When you think about your business goals or your financial goals and you want to work on them, and you just think, I just need to work, work, work, work, work all the time. Like, that's the best thing I should do. Non-stop work. because then that would help me. But I've learned from past experience that actually sabotages you because as human beings we work better when we can switch off. Like if I have a dedicated amount of time focused on building my business but then at least and I won't use the word every day but I would say at least multiple times per week I also stop working on that and I dedicate it to my family or to my relationship or whatever. It is actually better for my business. I will be more productive. I will have more clarity. I will have more insights. I will have more energy when I strategically disengage from my business and engage with my family. That's sciencebacked right there. It just helps you be a better person overall because you're not burning yourself out by just working non-stop on the one thing. Yep. I love that. And this is a good leadin to the next kind of big obstacle is being controlling. So, when you feel like you're leading effectively, you have great attachment and connection with your kids, you're taking care of your business, you're taking care of yourself, your kids actually listen to you and and you've got good things set up for them and they're following through. You don't have to be or feel like you need to be controlling. It's a it's a very very common thing for good parents to be controlling parents. But the outcome of controlling parents is that it creates either rebellious children or resentful children and those are the outcomes and so it backfires. Yeah. So you actually don't get the results you want because you try to control the results. I mean, it's one of these ironies of the universe that the more we try to control certain outcomes, the less we get the outcomes we want. And it it's really it really is this difficult balance I've found to try to find because as driven people and in fact I mean you and I live by mods such as I'll either find a way or I'll make one, right? I mean, that sounds like the epitome of control, but we've also learned to balance that with this essence of surrender, right? And I think we got that early on from like Wayne Wayne Dyer where he's ultimately like you just have to surrender. You can have what you want. You can have the clarity. You can have the vision, but it's this weird dichotomy where you also have to just surrender it all of like this is what I want. this is what I'm going for, but I'm surrendering and whatever happens happens, right? And that's ironically what actually produces the outcomes you're after. And that's a difficult thing to do. It's especially difficult to do. I mean, it's difficult to do with everything, parenting, business, finances, but definitely with parenting. Like, it's hard to find that balance of like I'm going to set these expectations, but I'm also going to surrender, you know? Yeah. And Yes. Totally. That's a hard one and it's a hard one to understand. It's a hard one to implement. Even talking about it, I can see how it would be like, what? This is confusing. Yeah, exactly. I'm not surrendering. And again, we want such good things for our kids. And so we think I have to ensure that that happens. And if we don't have the tools or the skills to guide it, then we the only thing we think we can do is force it. And you cannot force another human being without devastating consequences. You literally will sabotage your family if you keep trying to control. Like can I shout this to everybody listening? Stop trying to control your children or your spouse. It will backfire. It already is backfiring. Like it will not create the results you want. This is why we we see good people with good families. Kids are rebellious or resentful always. Like I' I've never seen an exception to this. Mhm. And then they're like, "Why does this happen?" And then their kid like, "My kids's just rebellious. This is the way they are." And so then they double down and they're like, "I'm going to be even more controlling and more strict. I'm going to force this to happen." And I'm like, "All you're doing is creating more resentment, more distance, more rebellion." I think even sadder than that, that's sad. But we've also seen the other side of the control and the parents think they're producing the outcomes they want because their children outwardly at least in front of them are obedient to their desires. But what's sad for us because we have this very unique insight into people's lives from leading trips from you know our teens interactions we get to see that behind the scenes they are secretly rebelling right or they're secretly resenting even if their parents don't know about it. That also is a failure in my mind all the time. Kids are doing what you want, but inwardly they're secretly resenting it. Will willingly obey when you're not around or they have the opportunity. So they they obey when you are around and then as soon as you're not, you turn your back or you go away, they're into their rebellion. And we see that all the time. So the desire for those great outcomes is amazing. The implementation is what matters so much here. And and even in the question, which was so great, she's like she she has enough self-awareness to be like, I try to control this and I'm not always pleasant. I mean, strict controlling and it pushes our kids away and causes a resentment. There it is what I want. Here's what I've been doing. It's that doesn't work. So, I guess we'll send them to school. She has self-awareness about this, which is powerful. Which is genius because a lot of people are clueless. Yeah, they are. And that to me like self-awareness is always the first step to creating change. Change a problem you're not aware of. So as soon as you begin to become aware of a problem, celebrate that because that's good. When you recognize, oh, I'm pushing my kids away and I'm causing resentment. It's like, woohoo. You recognize that. Now you can begin to do something about it. Well, and there's a there's an important point right there where you said that soon as you recognize you're like, oh, wait a minute. I'm being too controlling and mean and it's driving my kids away. Right there, you have a moment of thinking and decision. Because you could conclude, well, I guess I'm not fit to do this, so I'll send them away. Yeah. Or you say, well, okay, here's my chance. Here's the obstacle. Here's the impediment. That is the way. I know controlling them won't work. So, what do I do instead? So instead of throwing off our dreams, throwing off our targets, throwing off our goals, we stop and say, "What can I do instead that will bring the outcome I want and the relationship I want?" Yeah. And it's a it's a journey. I mean, you you know, you made it sound like right there in that moment like that's the only chance we've got. Well, no, no, it's the moment of decision right there is what I meant. Like of clear thinking. You're like cuz and I see this all I literally see this every day. Well, this isn't working, so I guess I'll give up on my dream and do this. Or this is what I really want, but I the way I'm doing it doesn't work, so I'll settle for something else. It's that moment of decision where instead of choosing to go down a path you don't want, you stay on the path you do want, you just figure out how to do it differently. Yeah. It's that moment of decision is critical. For many people though, they don't necessarily consciously have that moment of decision unless they have a coach. I mean, you do that every day because you're that's the point of coaching. You're working with people, helping them to make those moments of decision so they can alter their path and instead of giving up on what they want, figure out how to, you know, push past through the obstacles to get what they want. Exactly. Too many people just do the default of like, oh well, I guess it's not possible and so, you know, I'll do what I don't want to do just because what else to do? Settle for a less, right? you have, you know, good, getter, good, better, and best, and they want the best, and they're like, well, I'll settle for better, and they'll settle for good, right? And and so many good parents are settling for good, right? Okay. And I think that that's so important because as we love to talk about with our tennis analogies, you know, it's not a matter of you being a good or a bad person or of just this somehow misguided conception that you're either a good parent or you're not. That's not true. It's a skill you have to learn. And so if you sucked at tennis, you would just take some tennis lessons. Like that's solves the problem, right? The same thing here. And that's why I mean that's why we have the podcast. That's why we do because we're trying to get this message out here. Take some parenting classes. Like get some coaching or get some coaching. So for this particular lady, you know, you have a successful business. You have the the funding, the financing, like sign up for coaching. Like this is what we do. And I'd coach you through every aspect of this and go through the whole journey of like implement this and then as we're going along, okay, I did this, I did this, and here's what happened. Okay, now make this adjustment and make that adjustment. and just get coaching through that entire journey because what you're looking for is systems, strategies, tools, tactics, tweaks to make it really work, right? And re refine it. It's it's so doable, right? And and that's the emphasis we want to give is that all of these things, everything she's bringing up are skills that can be learned just like with anything else in life. So that's the mindset we really just want parents to get. Like this is something I can learn. This is something I this is a skill I can gain. But I want Okay, I got to address this right now because I guarantee there's people listening like but I've tried everything. That's why I want to talk about the specific strategies of how to hold these standards without controlling like without being the dictator without forcing the outcomes. You know everything we just talked through. Well, okay. How do you actually do that? Let's talk through some of that because that's that's where the rubber hits the road, right? So, I think that, and this this will tie back into my confusing remarks about surrendering and letting go and all of that, but I I have to continue to emphasize these things because I le I know that at least for me, it's made a huge difference in my parenting approach and in my parenting outcomes because I know when I started out, I felt this need to just like control like I wanted to just make sure my kids did everything the right way and everything, you know, the way I wanted it to do in the way that was perfect for them to become the perfect children I had envisioned. Like I know I felt that and I that would come out in my parenting. And so as I learned to navigate this and you guys know I love the yin and yang symbol. In fact, ironically, I remember I loved it since a child or a teen. Like I just love the yin and the yang. And it represents to me this balance between two opposing forces essentially. So you have this force of vision of intention of desired outcomes. And so in this case it's the vision of your family and what you want it to be. You know her whole beautiful list of like I want them to be in science and math and fitness and financial management and cooking and cleaning like all of these things. That's your vision and it's beautiful and it's wonderful and it's necessary. We have to have visions like that. But then the opposing force is this control, this forcing, this making our family be perfect so that we can reach those outcomes that we want, right? And we have to learn how to have the appropriate amount of yin and yang between the vision and the implementation, right? So that then it becomes balanced and you have a mix of equal parts instead of one side completely taking over the other side because that's when that's when we get all of the things we don't want. That's when we get the unhealthy outcomes, the resentment, the rebellion. That's what comes from having one force being too strong in your life or in the family. I think that's why a lot of people when they come stay with us, they see that we're both super chill and super intense. Yeah. and we have the yin and the yang and that it works like a champ. But if I'm super intense all the time with everything, the kids there'll be a horrible reaction. If I'm super chill all the time, there'll be a horrible reaction. So either way creates a terrible outcome that you don't want. So you have to find this balance, this art and the science of having a very high standards and holding them and then having other aspects that really don't matter and you're like, "Yeah, do whatever you want." where we see a lot of parents, they're either, you know, be free child, do whatever you want and there's no boundaries and kids can't function like that or the parents are super strict and controlling with every little last thing and it's insane. It's micromanaging and it is crazy and that doesn't work. So, we'll be we'll be hardcore. Like, there's certain there's certain things that just will not be allowed in our home, in our family, and our kids' life. Period. Hard stop. And then there's all kinds of things like, well, your choice. You get the consequences. Like, you you eat that donut. Like, no donuts in my house, right? You try to bring donuts in my house, those suckers are going right out to my pigs. I'm going give it to my pigs immediately. Like, what did you just bring out of my house? and I'll be fun about it and playful, but it's unacceptable. Like, we can laugh, joke, haha, that's really funny. They're going outside pigs. Like, no, I just bought those. I don't give a crap. They're not. They're going after my pigs. Right. And so, we can be playful and hold the the boundary. But then if we're out and about and they go and and they're like where or where or where or where or where or where or where or where or where or where or where or they have donuts. Why churches? They just want to kill all their members so they can send them to heaven. They're preparing them to heaven and killing them. So they offer it and my kids are like, "I really want a donut." I'm like, "Okay, man. It's your choice." Like, "You eating that won't affect my body, but I promise it'll affect yours, but it's your choice." And so they'll do it occasionally, usually when they're little, and then they're like, "I feel so sick." I'm like, "Yep." And so, but we let them choose and make that choice without making them feel bad or it's on you. We teach them and and say, "Go ahead." And they'll have it. And then like and it but over time they they just eventually stop accepting it. Even at first when they're little like oh they gave it to me. What do I do with it? I'm like throw it away. And then later on they just have the courage to say no thanks. I I don't want that. I don't eat that. And it's amazing. Then they make their own choices when we're not around. Yeah. That's the goal. And while you're talking about this and I'm thinking about our lives and you know these principles that we try to teach, I do realize that people get these misconceptions like you mentioned before where they they think that we are just super strict parents like everything is regimented, everything is scheduled, structured, strict, which is not the case. And so I'm trying to in my brain here like think about the difference like what does it look like? Because We'll say we'll tell people like, "Oh, our kids aren't quote unquote allowed to have breakfast until they've done their morning routine, right? We're strict about morning routines." And so people probably imagine it's like here we are these drill sergeants of like do your morning routine and then you can standing guard in the kitchen and you will be beaten if you cross the line, right? Or you know, you have to show up like a soldier and everything's perfect, you know? And so as I'm thinking about that, I'm like, okay, yeah, we're strict about teaching the principle of the morning routine. That's a chunk of time in the morning where each of us are involved in our own personal morning routine. So as far as the strictness goes, we're holding those boundaries of like I'm doing my morning routine. I'm teaching you the principle of you should be doing your morning routine. For young ones, we outline what that could include. certain non-negotiables like brushing your teeth, right? Or getting dressed or making your bed. But when it comes to implementation, they decide. That's where the freedom lies, I guess. If they want to get up and first brush their teeth and then make their bed, great. If they want to put on some whatever outfit, great. Like, I'm not dictating what they wear and how it looks and this and that. They get to choose what they're wearing. And often times I'm like, well, well, it's a little sloppy. But the point is, I'm not controlling every little aspect of their lives. The rule is morning routines because that's a principle we live in our life because it's valuable, but how that morning routine looks like for you and when you do it and how you do it and where you do it, you get to decide all of those factors. And so in a way that becomes this framework because then we simply repeat that process throughout the day. like that's repeated with study time, that's repeated with work time, chore time. It's a it's a formula that's repeated of like here's the boundaries, but within those boundaries, you decide how it plays out, right? You decide for yourself how you live this aspect of your life. And it works so well. Like I can't remember the last time we had to like quote enforce it, right? You just model it, teach it. Model it, teach it. Hold the boundary a little bit just a couple of times and then they love it. They're in it. They want to do it. Yeah. And they do it automatically. Guests come over. I mean, your mom came to stay with us. She was like, "This boys bedroom is amazing." And it was funny at the time. I was like, "Oh, it's a little messy right now." You know, that was my thought. But to her, it was clean for teenage boys. Yeah. Cuz they get up, they make their beds, they keep their stuff organized and neat. I mean, it's teenage boys and our our daughters. Well, and our little girls, they just they love the cleanliness. It feels like as a mom or a dad, you have to do everything. Like, I got to have my hands on everything. I got to be controlling because I want them to do all this stuff and how can I possibly be at home, help them with connect with them, love them, help them with school, and run my business? It seems impossible. But the the golden ticket is they become self-directed, right? And so initially there is that training period where it is more hands-on like when I was implementing and I whenever I'm setting up a charts and systems which you know I have an entire course on charts and systems but I always have moms start with starting with the morning routine because that helps your child learn the habit of one following a chart two following a routine and three becoming self-directed. And so when you start with that morning routine, yeah, it's more hands-on because you're showing them what to do and how to do it, especially when they have they may have no concept of it whatsoever. So, I'm helping them make their bed so that they know what that looks like. I'm helping them brush their teeth so they know what counts as brushing teeth and it's not just like two seconds of this, right? I'm helping them get dressed and put their clothes where it's supposed to go. So, they're learning like, "Oh, this is what that means when you say do this or it's on my chart. This is what it looks like. It it includes putting the clothes in the hamper, not just throwing them on the floor when I take them off." Right? So, it is more hands-on and intensive originally, but once you set that up and then hold them accountable, well, it becomes automatic. Now, my girls just do that as soon as they get up. Well, all of my children, but my specifically my youngest girls, just do it as soon as they get up because that's what they've learned. And along with that, help them grow this desire for them to want to do that because they recognize, first of all, that's what all of us do. We're all doing the same thing, right? We're all putting our clothes away in the hamper when we get dressed. We're all making our beds. So they realize it's not just something expected of only them, but then they see that, oh yeah, this is a this is a great way to be in the world. This love it. So you guys, uh, if you want more tools and strategies, join, uh, Rachel's family life coaching program or and there there's so much to it and you can come ask your very specific questions and we're going to every time we meet, we're giving very specific skills and strategies. Every parent needs to be actively involved in learning about parenting strategies because it's it is parenting is the most difficult thing you'll ever do in life. It is so complex and so challenging and so rewarding. It's wonderful. And then for the men, I have the formidable family man tribe and it's amazing where we get together as a as a brotherhood of good men and we get to be with other good men, family men as we're going along through life figuring out all the all the things for fitness, family, and finances. So the resources are there. Invest in it. Invest in your family so you can create and live your extraordinary family life. Love you guys. Reach upward.

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