Nov. 19, 2025

How to Hold High Standards With Teens (Without Power Struggles)

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In this episode, Greg and Rachel show you how to set teen boundaries that actually work—without constant conflict or power struggles. Instead of enforcing a list of parent-made rules, you’ll learn how to build deep connection, model a compelling life, and teach the natural laws behind your standards so your teens choose them for themselves. When your kids understand the why, and see the benefits in real life, teen boundaries stop feeling like control and start becoming a part of who they are.

Are you trying to set teen boundaries without your child calling you “controlling” or “the worst parent ever”?

If you want your teen to live by high standards—around tech, food, friends, habits, and lifestyle—you can’t just make it your standard and enforce it. It has to become their standard. In this episode of the Extraordinary Family Life Podcast, Greg and Rachel break down exactly how they helped their own teens buy in so deeply that they now say things like, “I’m not putting that garbage in my body,” or “I don’t waste my life on that.”

Instead of rules and power struggles, they show you how to prioritize relationship over rules, lean on unconditional love, and teach the laws that govern health, happiness, success, and addiction—so your kids see for themselves where certain choices lead. When teens understand the why behind your standards, they stop feeling controlled and start choosing those standards for themselves.

You’ll also hear how the Dennings have intentionally made real life more compelling than video games or junk food—often inviting friends along for the ride—so the “different” lifestyle isn’t a punishment, it’s an upgrade.

If you’ve ever wondered, “How do I hold the line without wrecking the relationship?” this conversation will give you a new framework: less control, more conviction—and a family standard that everyone owns.

🎉 Enrollment is now open for our Winter 2026

Habits for a Successful Life Online Class for Teens → Learn More Here

Key Takeaways

✅ It can’t be my standard; it has to become our standard as a family, or teens will always feel controlled.

✅ Prioritizing the relationship over the rules makes high standards easier to hold and easier for teens to accept.

✅ Unconditional love is the foundation, but standards and boundaries are still essential—just not weaponized.

✅ Focus less on control and correction, and more on conviction, conversion, and clear “why’s” behind your standards.

✅ Treat standards like universal laws (like gravity)—not arbitrary parent rules—so kids see cause and effect for themselves.

Memorable Quotes

🗣 “It can’t be my standard I enforce on my kids. It has to be our standard.”

🗣 “If we don’t live the message, we suck as the messenger.”

🗣 “The goal isn’t to make your child do what you want—it’s to help them want it for themselves.”

🗣 “Tell me your habits and I’ll tell you your future.”

🗣 “We’re not the creators of the rules—we’re the teachers of the laws that already exist.”

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Personal Anecdotes

00:38 Navigating Parenting Standards and Boundaries

01:10 The Challenge of Standing Out as Parents

02:53 Communicating Values and Standards to Teens

04:46 The Importance of Ownership in Standards

06:12 Understanding Consequences and Life Choices

08:21 Living the Message: The Role of Parents

11:02 The Balance of Unconditional Love and Standards

17:21 The Complexity of Love: Unconditional vs Conditional

18:41 Prioritizing Relationships Over Rules

21:58 Conviction vs Control in Parenting

26:25 Creating an Engaging Family Culture

30:29 Choosing the Hard Path for Greater Rewards

RESOURCES:

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0:00

It can't be my standard, it has to be our standard.

It's prioritizing the relationship over the.

Rules.

If you want to live better, then you're going to stand out.

That is one of the reasons why our kids buy in is because they see the benefit.

0:19

If we want our kids to level up, then we have to level.

Up We helped our kids to buy in so that our teens believe in the vision.

The way to make this successful is that we have to be living it.

We as the parents have to be living the standard.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the extraordinary family life podcasts.

0:36

We are your host Greg and Rachel Denning.

We're.

Going to be talking about holding standards, holding boundaries for your teen specifically, and this.

Question differently from everybody else around.

Living differently and what that actually looks like in the day-to-day and, and how you actually do that and uphold it.

0:56

If you hold any standard, you're going to be a minority on this planet, right?

I mean, let that sink in it, it seems kind of cynical, but it's, it's true.

There's only about 2% of people who are living to high personal standards, right?

Everybody else is just in survival mode, just trying to figure things out.

1:12

It doesn't make them bad people.

Go with the flow.

Yeah, they're just rolling along.

It's like, what's what's what's wrong with that?

Everybody's doing it, so might as well do it.

But if you want to have world class health and world class education, if you want to live differently and better than the majority, you're going to stand out and people are going to criticize you and they're going to criticize your kids.

1:35

And so you're going to feel it.

Your kids are going to feel it.

But but it's pretty obvious standard of, of mediocrity just keeps lowering down, down, down.

And so if you want any kind of standard, if you want to live a great life, you're going to stand out.

Which is not depending on the person.

1:51

That's not necessarily a quote UN quote good thing, especially to a teenager who wants to fit in.

The fact that you and your family stand out is not necessarily always comfortable.

So that's.

And therein lies the problem, which we'll talk about today.

Yeah, it's a real thing and it is something we have also felt and dealt with.

2:10

We've had to come to terms with it and we've had to help our teenagers come to turn with it.

We, you know, we've now had five teenagers.

We're on our fifth teenager and it's a real thing.

So, so how do we do this?

How do we hold up these high standards?

2:26

How do we live at a different level and still be able to communicate that to a child in a way where they don't feel like, like we're the controlling, horrible, worst parent ever because we're not doing everything else.

We're not letting them do everything else that everyone else is doing, right?

2:45

There's a couple of things I want to emphasize here, and this is something I've been feeling we have to you and I, Greg and I have to do better at communicating to people in our coaching clients, to the podcast episode or podcast audience.

3:01

I feel in some ways we have been misunderstood and of course it's our own fault that to many people we come across as very controlling, strict parents.

And the irony is when people actually meet us in person, we are not controlling and we are not strict.

3:18

We are actually very flexible and very like free flowing in a way, right?

And our kids have never like rebelled or fought back or I don't remember any instance where our kids are ever saying you guys are so controlling.

I don't or even you're too strict.

3:33

They've never said that.

So it's the way we implement it, yes.

So set the standard, have the value, have the big goals, then it's the implementation piece.

And that's where either the kids go along or they start to fight it and they resist it.

3:52

It's how it's implemented.

Often we have issues with our children buying in to our family vision or dream when we fail to communicate to them why it matters, why it's so important.

4:07

So as we talk about this idea of having higher standards that we live by as a family, we have had to be very, very, very good at communicating the passion, the reason, the motivation, the why behind it all so that our children actually bought into it.

4:27

And so, you know, if we could, if we had to end this podcast episode right now and tell you what The thing is, this would be it.

We helped our kids to buy in.

So that our teens believe in the vision.

That is why they don't rebel against it.

That's why they don't feel that we're too controlling.

4:44

That's why they don't fight it.

So set another way, instead of parents choosing and setting a standard and then enforcing that in their families, which is what most people do, what we tried to do early on, and this is what you think Why?

I'm the parent.

So I set a standard or rule and then I enforce it well, but that doesn't work.

5:03

Because what happens and, and we know because we've gone through this process and we've helped our teens go through the process, but what happens in a lot of families is the parents individually or as a couple get some sort of enlightenment, understanding, vision of wow, This is why this is bad and this is better.

5:24

We want to live this way.

We want to do things this way.

And they may share that with each other, but a lot of parents fail to communicate that to their children.

So going back to this idea, that's or.

They might just tell them, well, I told my kids I want them to have a world class education.

They, they told them and they thought, well, I've told you why, but communicating, convincing, it's a process, right you.

5:46

Want your children to come to you and say, hey, the neighbors, my friends or cousins, they do that.

What's the deal, right?

That is exactly what you want to have happen.

This is very normal for your child, your teen to be saying, well, you're so controlling.

What what they're actually trying to say is help me understand why you have these rules and the rest of my friends and their families don't.

6:09

And especially because, you know, the the vast majority of us still operate on first level thinking.

You just see what's right at the surface.

And so your teens just look and like well.

They're, they're having fun.

Yeah.

They're they've got a great life.

What's the deal there's?

Nothing wrong with.

Them like they live in a they have a big house, they're they're eating junk food, they're playing video games.

6:27

Like why am I missing out here?

Like what gives?

Why is this?

Why is this a bad thing?

Here right?

And so you have you do.

So you have to take them to the next level of thinking where they begin to put together the pieces of like, well, yeah, but look where this goes.

6:46

But if you look at people who end up in, you know, like a drug addict, where did they start?

They started here, a porn addict.

Most porn addict, most porn addicts had some connection to some sort of other addiction, like video games, before they got to porn.

7:03

You and I, having worked with so many people and done so much research, we're able to see those patterns and where they lead.

And so we're able to show the patterns to our children, whether from the research or the books we've read.

Or in.

Real life experiences of people we know around us.

7:21

And this happens, what we've been doing this since they were little.

And this is the point I want to emphasize so much today.

It can't be my standard that I enforce on my kids.

It has to be our standard.

7:37

I want this high standard to I want my kids to take ownership of the high standard.

I want it to be theirs.

That's the golden ticket.

Because then they will never accuse you and me of being controlling or demanding or weird or ridiculous or crazy or whatever because the standard is theirs. 15 year old, 16 year old, 17 year old saying Oh no, I never put that crap in my body.

8:04

I will not put that garbage in my mind.

I will not waste my life and my time doing dumb things.

When it's their standard, they're unstoppable, right?

Like I don't have to enforce anything.

Yeah, there's no enforcing of rule, quote UN quote rules because it's not our rule to you.

8:21

And I have discovered and learned through a lot of study that there are rules and laws that apply to every single thing in life.

There's rules of health, there's rules of mental and emotional health and as well as physical health, there's rules of success, There's rules of abundance.

8:38

Every We can even call them laws to.

Yeah.

Every single thing that we, any of us want in life has a law that you have to obey if you want to achieve success in that area.

So for us, it's very much the same way.

8:54

You know, we could complain about gravity, or we can learn how to work with gravity, right?

And when we learn how to work with it and obey the law of gravity, then you can do all kinds of things.

You can jump, you can fly, you can like you can do a lot of stuff, but you have to learn how to work with it.

9:10

To me, it's the same thing.

We've learned what the laws are to all the different areas of life.

And then all we're doing is communicating that to our children the best way we know how.

So we don't it's, it's almost, it becomes this third party thing.

9:28

So it's not you or I enforcing rules that we have created on our children.

It's simply we're saying, hey, guys, we figured out there's this law, we've discovered it.

I mean, we didn't discover ourselves.

We, you know, came to the realization there's this law.

9:46

If we live in harmony with this law, this is the outcome.

If we don't, this is the outcome.

Let's live in harmony with this law and do these things so we can get the outcomes we want.

It becomes very much a external thing rather than a enforced.

10:05

Right.

So it's not, it's not us, US versus them parents for these kids.

And you know, all we're fighting everybody in their whole world.

It's like, no, no, hey, step back, like no, you're going to make your choice.

So we say this to our kids, we have, since they're very little, who do you want to be?

What kind of life do you want to live?

10:21

What kind of person do you want to be?

And, and here are the outcomes.

And we've given them so many endless examples.

So we're, we're just constantly doing this and letting teaching the principal, telling stories.

And then they observe themselves and they'll come back and they'll be like, guess what?

10:37

They'll go on a trip, they'll go somewhere.

They're like, okay, we observed this thing.

We heard this thing.

And here's well, and, and sometimes they even did it themselves.

They've gone to spend time with family members or friends where they spent the whole week playing video games and eating junk food.

And at the end of it, they are the ones coming back to us and saying, Oh my gosh, I felt like crap, like it was so terrible.

10:58

I couldn't, I can't wait.

I could not wait to get back to eat our food and to spend my time productively because I now know through experience it feels so much better.

It's.

Just such a waste of time in life.

And they feel that they feel the difference.

11:13

So to emphasize, the way to make this successful is that we have to be living it.

We as the parents have to be living the standard because if we don't live the message, we suck as the messenger.

Hey there, this is Greg Denning.

11:29

We want to reach as many people as possible and help as many families as possible with these conversations.

And we want to keep this podcast ad free forever.

You can help us do that by subscribing on Spotify or Apple podcasts or wherever you listen your favorite platform and on YouTube and leave a quick review and and share your favorite episodes with friends and family.

11:50

It makes a big difference.

Thank you for being a part of this very important movement.

So if my life is boring, dull, unfulfilling, uninspiring, why would they listen to me?

Why?

Why would I be able to persuade them to have a high standard if they look at me like, and dad, you're so boring and your life is so lame.

12:11

Like, why would I want your life?

Why would I?

And they're not going to think through this cognitively.

It's all subconscious.

Just like, why would I listen to you?

Why would I give credibility to what you're saying when you're such a lame person or you don't have the results or you're not actually living it?

So if if I'm out of shape and I'm unhealthy and I'm telling my kids they should eat healthy food anyway?

12:31

Like you're such a hypocrite.

What's the benefit?

What's the point?

Because that is that is the main selling point to this approach is that there has to be obvious benefits to doing what you do.

And that is one of the reasons why our kids buy in is because they see the benefits, they feel the benefits of living this way of living by the standards.

12:54

And so if at some point it becomes a no brainer, it becomes something that it's so obvious to them because they begin to see and feel the benefits.

Now I, I, I want to clarify something really fast before I, because there's like 3 or 4 points here I want to re emphasize.

13:11

But before I do that, I want to clarify.

You guys might be saying like, wow, you're so judgmental here.

You are looking at just everybody around you and talking about them and about what they eat and what they do and all this and thinking you're better than them.

And so I want to clarify that that is not the spirit in which it's done.

13:29

We are very loving people.

We love people.

Obviously, there's people we don't ache.

You know, that's normal.

Like CS Lewis said, people are like vegetables.

You don't have to like them all.

But the point is we are observing behavior and outcomes.

13:45

We're talking about behavior and outcomes.

We're not saying that guy's a fat slob because he eats Donuts, but we'll say, Oh well, he's awesome, he's a great person.

But if you continue to eat a diet like that, this is the outcome.

It's almost, it's almost a separate, independent thing from the person itself.

14:04

Yeah, we we strive to be extremely objective, right?

Like look at the behavior was.

So I've been teaching this for years, like tell me your habits and I'll tell you your future, right.

And you can see a person's habits.

And once you do so long now I can look at a person and I can tell them their habits.

14:22

I can predict what their habits are with with tremendous accuracy because it's a formula.

It's those laws you were talking about.

Before.

Like, and so we're doing that in, in that spirit, I was actually doing some, some thinking this morning on this same thing, this idea of justice and mercy and being so patient and, and compassionate with people as they're struggling with their own weaknesses on one hand.

14:51

And on the other hand, saying no, man, the, the law is the law.

The habit is the habit.

You you do it or you don't.

Well, it's like gravity.

Gravity doesn't care about your feelings.

It doesn't care about if you're a good person or not.

I mean, gravity just operates no matter what.

And many of us don't realize, I mean, I, this changed my life when I understood this.

15:10

Many of us don't realize that that is happening in every level of our life.

It's happening mentally, emotionally, physically, in our marriage, in our parenting.

It's all governed by law, and many of us aren't aware of those laws.

That's why we keep falling, failing, messing up, falling on our face.

15:27

It's like we don't understand gravity and we keep tripping over things, falling down.

Like why does this keep happening?

Seems so difficult but once we understand what's happening then it's just aligning ourselves with the laws.

Right.

OK.

So there's like 3 or 4 things here.

15:44

We've talked about a couple of them.

One of them, of course, is going back to it's not this idea of being very strict and controlling, It's prioritizing the relationship over the rules.

Like I want to.

In fact, I don't think we touched on this enough.

16:00

I want to re emphasize that because we're not just about having these high standards and high rules and you better fall in.

Love very few rules.

Maybe it's semantics, but we don't have a lot of rules we don't like.

16:16

This is our rule.

This is, you know, my way or the highway under my roof.

You follow my rules.

We don't ever do that.

We never have done that.

So we have standards.

It's like, well, here's the standard and here's why.

And our kids have always like, Oh yeah, I totally get it.

16:32

Yes, they they've bought in.

But even underlying that is we're prioritizing the relationship with each of our children.

We are bonding with them or attaching with them.

Again, there's a lot of different words you can use or connecting.

We are deeply, we're building deep relationships of trust with each child, which is the foundation of being able to have any standards.

16:56

Like our children know above all that we love them and because of that, they trust us.

The foundation of this all is unconditional love.

Love is not something you earn.

It's not something you get after you've done XYZ.

17:12

Unconditional love is the foundation.

Now, I think where this can get challenging for people to understand is because there's still a nuance there.

You can have unconditional love, but you also have to have conditions for a certain thing.

17:28

Certain boundaries and standards.

In many ways, to me, the conditions are very similar to the laws of like say, gravity.

So we can have massive amounts of love, infinite love, even unconditional love, but we must, absolutely must still hold standards and boundaries, Yes.

17:53

Ultimately, especially with children and yes, especially with very young children, unconditional love is the foundation.

Like there's no judgment about whether the child deserves your response when they cry because you are their provider.

18:09

You have to respond to them if you want to build a relationship with trust.

So that's where I'm going back to here is underneath all of this, underneath us holding standards and boundaries is the basis of unconditional love of our children that was built from the time they were young.

18:27

So that's the foundational piece.

And we're building on that, prioritizing the, and I'm saying it this way intentionally the the relationship over the rules.

So that's a piece to look at as you're trying to sort this out is like, are you prioritizing the relationship with the child enough more than the rule?

18:47

Because where we can get into trouble is if we hold the standard so firmly that it damages the relationship, if that makes sense.

And I guess I want to point out that because you bring this up and, and even in my own mind, I'm, I'm guessing some of the lizard, she was like, wait, how is this related?

19:05

Right?

How, how is you talking about the relationship?

We're here talking about standards, Like how do we hold standards and, and not have our kids fight against them and like, dislike us and, and they're like, you start talking about relationship.

What are you, what are you talking?

Where does this line up?

It's, it's inside a phenomenal relationship that it's easy to hold a high standard when the relationship is absolutely fantastic.

19:29

They like you, they trust you, they listen to you.

They.

Admire you.

They respect you.

They want to model you.

Yes, so they're teachable, yes.

So when you say here's here's the standard we hold and This is why they listen and they say, got it.

19:46

I'm in where if the relationship.

Much easier.

Yeah, but if the relationship is strained.

Exactly.

And I've been distant or distracted or I don't pay other things.

I, I, I'm not interested in what they're doing and, and I don't spend time with them.

20:01

And even when I'm with them, I'm not really with them.

And, and when they mess up, I get very angry.

So then when I say this is our Santa, he's like, whatever, go jump in a lake.

Yeah, it's like, and This is why he's like blah, blah, blah.

I think that even what you just touched on right there, because that's another thing when I mean another thing, I mean when I'm talking about I value the relationship over the rule because even though I have very strong or high standards around things like no video games or no sugar in our house, if and when the kids mess up because they do, they will.

20:35

I don't get angry at them and upset at them and damage the relationship because of their mistake.

That's what I mean by value the relationship over the rules.

I will reinvest in the relationship and I simultaneously I can also get very passionate about the rule, but they're separated.

20:55

My passion is not directed towards the child in punishing or disciplining them.

My passion is on, which then goes into the next thing I want to emphasize.

It goes into the conviction about why this rule matters to me, why this standard is important.

21:12

And my kid, you can ask my kids because they've heard me over the years.

One of the reasons we have very high standards around food is because the week you and I met, my dad was diagnosed with cancer and within two years he passed away.

And as a result, including the fact that my mother remarried and then my stepfather died from cancer.

21:32

I am very passionate about food and like the quality of health and nutrition because that directly contributes to chronic diseases like that.

So that's where the net, the second piece here is control versus conviction.

I'm not going for control.

21:49

I'm not trying to control my children because like you said, I want it to become theirs.

I want them to own it.

And so the passion and the energy goes into conviction and convincing.

And conversion.

And converting rather than in controlling.

22:06

Yes, yes, yes.

Disciplining that, that framework you just said is that's the ticket.

Yes.

So instead of putting all your energy, emotion, passion, frustration, whatever into correction, put it into conversion or conviction.

22:25

Because the goal isn't to make the children do what you want.

It's to get them to want it for themselves.

Because if, if the child wants it as much as you do, then you don't have to be around.

22:42

You don't have to worry about it.

They take off and they go out with their friends or peers or they go to some new place.

I don't have to worry about it at all.

Because it, the standards we hold in our family are theirs.

It's not mine.

Like they're going to be an influence for good where they're going instead of me worrying that they'll keep my standards because I'm not there to punish them if they do or to remind them.

23:05

Right.

But I guess I want to keep emphasizing that if that's the system we set up of implementation is it's my standard and I enforce it, then I have to be there their whole life.

Yeah.

And they are going to feel controlled, and that is not what you want.

23:21

You don't want your children to feel like they're controlled by your standards.

You want them to have their own standards that dictate their behavior.

Exactly.

And even even I think in a way we want the standard to be independent of us.

Yeah.

Like I was talking.

About before.

This isn't my standard.

23:36

It's the third party, it's the outside external.

It's like.

No, this is just, this is just what you do to become healthy and wealthy and happy.

And, and so the kids like, because otherwise the kids think they're fighting you.

They're like, this is your dumb rule.

23:52

You're the only one in the neighborhood who does it.

And, and I don't know why.

And I really resent you right now.

And they, they would say words, I hate you.

You're the worst.

And and at that point you're like, whoa, this isn't my rule.

This is like, this is a universal law.

If you do those things, you get those results.

24:09

So this isn't mine.

I didn't make that up.

Right.

And so it's almost like, and we've Cedric, if you want those results, you're welcome to choose to do those things.

That's up to you.

You're the one that has to decide what you actually want from your life.

And so in this whole idea of control versus conviction, you have to get very specific about the why.

24:31

Why does this matter?

Why do you have the standard?

Why should they have the standard?

And if you don't know, if you're just like, oh, I thought this is a good idea, or it's because the Denning said so on their podcast.

Like, you have to discover your why.

And then the next level is you have to be able to articulate that why to your teens and children.

24:51

So effectively that people, even people who disagree with you, were like, OK, that makes sense.

Exactly.

Yes, that makes sense.

If you remove control and replace it with conviction, naturally that process is going to involve children experimenting.

They're going to go to their friends and play video games.

25:09

They're going to go eat junk food.

But we have always held a very clear standard of like, OK, don't bring that into our house, even to the point that if our kids did bring sugar in or something, we just throw it in the garbage because we're like, oh, oops, there's someone brought some garbage in.

We have them say, hey, you know right where that belongs.

25:26

Yeah, where that goes.

So.

We make a playful and fun but it's like this isn't allowed in our house.

Right.

And I think that's important too.

So it's playful, it's fun, it's lighthearted, We can hold a standard and we can even correct and discipline.

Say if you want to eat that you and they would do that.

Sometimes they're like oh I better eat this before I get home because it's not allowed in the.

25:42

House, right.

And so I want to give some helpful strategies here, or at least share what has worked for us and what we would do if we were living in a neighborhood where where our kids wanted to hang out with the friends in the neighborhood and they they wanted to play video games.

25:58

I would say as an example, I'm going to start getting very, very deliberate and strategic about creating experiences that are way better than video games.

So I think this ties into this third element I really want to talk about.

You already touched on it when you talked about living a boring life.

26:19

It's this idea that if you're going to live a different standard, if you're going to have a different way of living, it needs to be more attractive than the other option.

So if playing video games is more exciting than your life, you're to blame for.

26:37

That there's your problem.

And so that's always been a key piece.

If our children were bored because they didn't get to play video games, we said, wow, our life is boring.

We need to do something about it.

And so as you were just talking about, you became very intentional about and if necessary, not just enticing our children into more exciting activities, but it they're.

27:00

Friends too.

So this is what I would be doing.

I would, I would deliberately start making hanging out with the Dennings so amazing that even their friends are like, dude, no, forget the video games.

Let's go with your dad on another epic adventure or let's go to your house.

27:17

Like, I want everybody at my house and I'm going to feed them.

And that's, it's going to be expensive, but I'm going to feed them delicious, nutritious food and they're going to come over and be like, bro, how can this be healthy?

It is so good.

27:33

Which many people have said to this yes, they come.

Out.

Wow.

We've been doing this for years and years and years.

They're like, we love eating your house.

I'm like, yeah, and it's healthy for you.

We're going to be doing such cool things.

Now, is this going to cost me money?

100%.

Is it going to cost me time and effort?

Absolutely.

But we are going to be skateboards, rollerblades.

27:51

Throwing axes.

Yes, absolutely.

Unfortunately for too many people, and I understand because we've been there, it's so much easier to just so much easier and cheaper to just let them play the video games because you buy the video game once or the console or whatever and yeah, it's an investment, quote UN quote.

28:08

But then they get to play it all the time and that's easier.

It takes less planning, it takes less work.

It takes doesn't cost you more money to instead go to the trampling park or the water park, but that's what it is required.

That's what it costs and it's worth it if that's what it costs to keep your kids entertained.

28:30

And no, not keep them entertained.

Keep them engaged in the real world.

It is worth every cent.

And trust me, we know we have lived by this.

We've put our money where our mouth is and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on epic experiences all around the world, and yet that has convinced our children it is invested in them so that they understand, yeah, this is better.

28:56

It's a better.

Life, living life is way better than a video game.

Exactly.

Way better, but OK, let's bring it back down.

Let's earning the dollars way back down.

Here's a very real scenario that happens at our place all the time.

So again, what we're sharing with you guys is things we are doing, we have done for years and are doing.

29:12

So we're we're not going to tell you to do something that we haven't done.

A lot.

When we're talking about conviction, you have to be so convinced yourself of this higher standard, this higher way of living, that you're willing to invest time, energy, money, effort into doing it because, yeah, are there other things you or I could be doing?

29:32

Absolutely there are.

But we choose to make this investment in time so their children feel the benefit of living at this higher standard.

If you and I preached all of this and then be and then did our own things and didn't hang out with them and didn't spend time working out with them or playing games, then they'd be like, well, I'm bored.

29:53

Yeah, I'm going to play games or play video.

If I'm trying to parent from the couch, yeah my option are to they're to yell and discipline.

Right, and control.

Control, right?

Don't do that.

Oh, there's a consequence.

It's because I'm trying to parent from the couch.

Right.

So whenever our children have brought up those objections, we viewed that as an opportunity, one, to have a conversation to articulate the conviction, the why, and two, to strategize how can we be more intentional about making the real world fun or real food delicious or, you know, whatever the standard is.

30:30

OK.

So I think that those are the main points we want to emphasize that it's it's not more about the relationship than the rules.

That's the foundation, of course, but you can't also have all relationship and no rules.

30:46

There needs to be standards, there needs to be boundaries.

Like that is a necessary.

Part like I plead with you, please have very, very high standards in your family.

Yeah, please do that.

Don't make them rules.

Don't make them just yours.

31:01

And you enforce them.

You're not the police.

You're not the government.

You're not the creator of the rules.

You're the teacher.

Yeah, you're out.

You're out finding the highest standards across time and space and culture and religion.

You're like, what are the highest laws?

Let's live by those.

31:17

And then you become the teacher and the mentor and the coach and and you become so persuasive that instead.

Of controlling.

Maybe the essence of parenting, of great parenting, is persuading your children to take ownership of their own high standards.

31:34

I mean, if I could boil it down to the essence of phenomenal parenting, it's getting your kids to own, even as part of their identity, the highest standards, standards possible in life.

That is phenomenal parenting, yes.

So it's it's not focusing on control or punishment or discipline in order to keep those standards, but it's focusing on convincing and conviction with passion about why those standards matter and why they would be important for you as a family to pursue, but more importantly as an individual to pursue.

32:10

So that becomes their own.

The message.

Yeah.

And it's worth it.

Oh my God, I see.

It's more effort, more work.

It's also so much more rewarding and, and I think, oh, it's, it's yes, it requires some discipline and mastery and habits assistance like it's so worth it.