#285 Proactive Parenting: How to Raise Kids Who Grow Into Amazing, Responsible Teens You Want to Be With (& Who Want to Be With You)

Greg & Rachel Denning (00:01.218)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We're your host Greg and Rachel Denning. And today we have an awesome treat. The first time ever we have guests in our studio. Our good friends are over here staying at the World School Family Resort with us, Brian and Sam. And they are here to have the conversation. So super excited to have you guys here with us and have a fun conversation.

We are really excited to be here as well. We've been looking forward to coming out for a long time. We've known you guys for many years now and so it's awesome to see the Dennings live and in action and to experience the life that we've been learning about so much for a long time. So it's been a real treat for us.

I gotta take the mic back. We're like sharing the mic here. We're in the studio like passing the mic back and forth. I wish we had a camera on because I'm like leaning over on top of Rachel here. So one of our...

One of things that I think about all the time that's frustrating for us is we try to teach and share principles and practices, things that have worked, things that don't work. And you're trying to articulate it. You're trying to put it in words. But what's so cool is when people can come and see it. And I'm sure you guys see things that we don't.

notice or whatever and vice versa right we're just we're just we're all kind of operating and just going along so it's it is it's fun to have you guys here and and write in it and and see i don't know and then it brings up questions or comments or things you'll come and you'll say things and and i'll be like yeah right and some things like become automatic or we forget we do them or or like this becomes

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:52.972)
I know we started working on things that now have become, I guess, subconscious. Like you forget you do them because we've been doing them for so long. So it's always fun to have a fresh pair of eyes and like, what about this? What about that? And look at this. Right. Well, that was something I was thinking of because.

because that does happen. When we're trying to teach things, there's so many layers there. I feel like there's layers and layers and layers. And so people will ask a question. And how you answer the question, there's multiple ways you can do that because of the layers. And I think sometimes we forget about some of the layers. We forget, yeah, actually we put this in place years ago, which then made this possible. And so we give you this answer. But then you're kind of like, wait a second, what about? How does that work? So that's why I'm excited.

about this because we can kind of unpack some of those layers as you can bring up questions and mention things that you know maybe we've forgotten about or we haven't addressed fully about how we got to there how we got to that well and I think that your guys families in a different stage than ours is as well because we still have pretty young kids 10 and under and so a lot of the things that we're trying to implement or the foundation that we're trying to build

you guys have already been there, done that, and you have kids that are kind of at the next phase of life that have been able to benefit from that. so being able to hopefully glimpse into the future of what our family can look like and how the things that we want to instill for our culture and see the tools and the strategies and the skills that you've used to help build that in them, that's one thing that is really a fun thing to see.

and see how we can improve, like make improvements or changes in how we operate so that hopefully we can have very high functioning teenagers and then adults when that happens. I love that. That's cool that you mentioned that. I always did that.

Greg & Rachel Denning (03:52.438)
I was always watching. still am. I'm always watching people that are five, 10 years ahead of me. And I'm just noticing. And you're right. now, so your oldest is 10, our oldest just turned 22. So it's a 12 year thing, right? And what a fun, fun thing for all of us to do is just pick this vision just ahead. like how, what do I want it to be like when I get to that spot and then try to set up the

steps to get there. so Brian Sam and we have a mutual friend that are listeners of the podcast and we've been coaching with them. They always talk about their 20 year reunion. They're just constantly talking about that. And so every time we're talking to them, like, yeah, the 20 year reunion, the 20 year reunion, they have just picked this spot in the future where all their kids are grown up with their kids and marriages. And they're like, what do we want our 20 year reunion to look like?

Sam totally does that. she's mentioned it many times. So it's this cool idea of picking a spot. What do you want the outcome to be like when you get there? And then what do we need to do to create the outcome? Well, and along those lines, because even though you haven't.

Ask the question yet because you're going to ask a question. We're going to answer it. But this is one of the answers. I feel like this is a key answer that a lot of people miss because having that vision makes a difference in the way you interact with your children on a daily basis. And I'm thinking specifically of we recently came across someone on Instagram and who's putting their parenting on like specific parenting strategies on Instagram. But like

The strategies that like make my soul hurt. Millions and millions and millions of views. And like when the little kid's having a tantrum and crying, like it's the worst scenario and she's turning on her camera and filming it. like getting tons of followers. And Rachel are like, But as I'm watching this, I'm thinking these are the strategies that produce the relationships with your children that in 20 years, they don't want to be there.

Greg & Rachel Denning (06:07.896)
They don't want to be with you at that reunion because they resent you. They're angry, they're upset because it's, specifically in this scenario, it was, I think maybe a two year old, they were still in diapers, being forced to pick up a spoon, to throw it in the garbage. And here's the thing, people think it's a good strategy because the mom's completely under control.

But just because you're under control doesn't mean that's a strategy that works. And then she puts him in timeout and then he calms down. And so everyone's like, this is a good approach. This is a good strategy. I'm like, no, it's not because you're missing the underlying thing that will lead to resentment in your children when they get, I mean, as they grow. And then that resentment builds into rebellion and anger and like distance between you.

For us, the focus has always been on what do I want 20, 30, 40, 50 years down the road with my children? And what do I need to do today to get that relationship, essentially to me, I view it as having this close relationship and not doing things that create a wedge in that. Yeah, and I think that that's kind of what you're talking about with this influencer, whatever you want to call it, is

immediacy like the immediate effect they're getting the desired result in the moment yes but again you're not you know thinking that long-term vision of the impact of that interaction right there and I unfortunately I thought I felt I like I'm always on the the short end of the stick when it comes to like how I'm not short of the stick but I'm short with my kids in those months because I want that immediate like I want you to baby I want you to do the thing that I'm asking you to do right now and I think Sam is a lot better to look at like

the bigger picture and the interactions that she has. And seeing how you guys interact, even with our kids, right? Like my kid will be thrown a temper tantrum or whatever, because they're sleep deprived and not sleeping super great. And I just want them to not scream and wake everybody else up. But the way that I go about it, a lot of times is not necessarily with that long-term vision of mine. But sometimes it's like, you're kind of bound by the tools that you have. And so if all you know is like,

Greg & Rachel Denning (08:19.886)
shush, shush, shush, and try to quiet them down in that very limited way. One, probably not gonna get the result you want, really. And then two, the long-term effect of that is it's not a solid foundation to build that relationship on, think. And this is one of the challenges where there are layers there, because of course, we all want to have immediate results. I mean, that is part of...

parenting we want to not have children that are annoying and frustrating and irritating all the time so having especially like in a public place yeah on the train when there's like your jam packed and you got a kid crying and trying to hit other people yeah you can't get off the bus or airplane so we're not it's not as though we're

promoting the other side of like, forget, you know, where the gentle parenting is kind of like, well forget about all of that. It doesn't matter because people just need to deal with it because they have their emotional need, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, all that stuff. No, we want strategies that are effective and produce the results that we want, but don't compromise the long-term relationship. That they don't compromise that long-term vision we have, but that do both, that can achieve both things.

That's always been our approach because we've definitely been there. mean, we've traveled to so many places and as a very self-conscious person who hates to make a scene, hate, like Greg knows, that's like my biggest fear is making a scene in public. I do not want a scene, right? So I've always wanted- Like this is too a default. we have the most-

Well, I'm laughing my head off always and then it ends up making a scene between us because she's like, don't make a scene. Stop it. I don't care. don't care. She's like, stop it. We're in a country and nobody's ever going to see us again. Who cares? But I'm like, people are looking at us. Stop. Just control yourself. And so I've always wanted to have strategies that worked so that we don't have to make scenes.

Greg & Rachel Denning (10:32.76)
But I've also wanted them to work in a way that still maintained that close relationship so that I could get both. Now, admittedly, that's way more challenging. Like that's the whole another level. So if I guess if I could kind of extra emphasize this.

Greg & Rachel Denning (10:54.718)
It's easy if we're pursuing a result in the moment to use force. I guess I'll just kind of break them up into like force or manipulation. Right? We can all become forceful. And I would say probably that's dad and mom. Right? Dad's going to be like, let's do this. And I did that plenty of times. And you get the immediate result. then afterwards, I always felt so bad.

for getting after, and it was with the toddlers especially, was like, like they were just being kids or manipulation. And that sounds harsh, but it's quite easy to become manipulative. But I think what you're saying software. I I've always said that the...

What is the word? The bad side of motherhood or being a woman. It can lean into manipulation and narcissism. It can go too far. And so even in this influencer online that I was watching, she was. She was completely calm. She was completely under control. But that doesn't mean she wasn't being manipulative.

When you're forcing your child to do something because that's what you want them to do, ultimately that comes down to a form of manipulation, really. So our approach has always been, how can I convince my child, even a two-year-old, to want to do this thing so that they choose to do it? And you think, I don't even know if that's possible. Well, it might take longer than you want. It might not.

You might not have the immediate result that time, like that moment, that specific instance, but if you get creative about it and you think through it, you can find that there is a way to convince your child to want to do that thing so then it happens most of the time. So here's a question that I've had that, and I'm sorry Sam, I'm taking up our airtime here, but one of the questions that I...

Greg & Rachel Denning (13:05.742)
Like we ran into this morning, right? Our kid woke up. He's two, two and a half and, woke up much earlier than we wanted to. Other people are sleeping. He started screaming. like, okay, we're going to take him to the store so that we can at least get him out of the proximity of waking everyone else up. And he just continued to scream, while we were getting him dressed and trying to quiet him down. So we, the tools that I normally will go to is force, but in this case you can't do it. Like he's.

Force is obviously not an option, obviously not. Great, he doesn't understand what I'm saying and he doesn't care. He's just gonna scream until he gets something. I don't even know what he wanted at that point. So I can bribe him with, usually he likes a bottle of milk. That's one thing that he's usually pretty happy to accept. I can bribe him with a screen, which is one of my least favorite ways to do it, but it works very, well. It's like a golden key that you have to unlock his...

whatever emotions that allows him to calm down. And that's the case with, I would say probably most of our kids. I think all kids. Yeah. Which is so dangerous though. Right. And it's because as soon as I give that to him, I, he, we call it zombie mode. He just turns into a zombie and it's like, unfortunately, like he, he, so he'll be compliant in the moment of whatever I want him to do. He won't be screaming. Right. But when I try to take that away, the effects of that for hours after

can be really bad because he gets whiny again. It's like all of our kids, it takes a change of state for them to get in a different place. So I guess the question that I'm, this real world example, what do do in that kind of situation? How do you navigate that in a way that, or maybe it's okay, maybe it's all right to get them through to that moment, have that thing where they get a 10 minute gist.

calm down and then try to work on the reef set in a moment where it's not quite as urgent with other people or whatever the situation may be. Yeah, I think that's a great example. And the answer, again, talking about the layers, is multi-layer because the influence you have with your child in the moment is, of course, determined by all the other moments you've had before. So when you realize that that's a thing and you want to change it,

Greg & Rachel Denning (15:27.426)
Yeah, the solution in the moment isn't necessarily the same solution as the long-term changes you would make. So you can think about, what are the long-term changes I need to make to have this be the way I want it, where I have the influence to be able to calm him or whatever I need right now. In this moment, yeah, maybe I give him the bottle. I would definitely say no with the device. Especially for that young.

Although I can see a situation Yeah Just cuz you describing him like brings up all these memories of us traveling and literally being on a bus like we're an airplane like they're screaming in the middle It's like middle of the night you're flying in the air. It's like what am I gonna do with this kid?

Greg & Rachel Denning (16:20.398)
But that's like the emergency shoot. But for me that's the last case, worst case. Like okay I will resort to that finally. Before that I'm gonna try all the other things. All the other tools. But so the real solution though long term is how do I build the relationship with my child that I can influence and calm him in the moment without having to at least 80 % of the time

resort to other bribes or whatever. So you're saying that you have to think ahead and be strategic in the way that you so you can't just react to everything. hear you saying, okay, very good. It's so true. But if we don't, if we don't give a thought ahead of time, then it's all reactive. And I remember going through the same thing and I laugh at it now, but

I remember mentally getting upset that it happened again. They did that again. And it was like, it was my own delusion. Like I was like, why would?

I told them not to do that and then they then over years I'm like, they did that 10,000 times I should have been the one to foresee this and say the next time my kids fight Here's what I'm gonna do instead But what I would do like what they're fighting again, and then I would jump in the fight Yeah, and I'm like, well that doesn't work. So yeah proactive versus reactive Proactivity is what I mean now my

The easiest way for me to remember this is what we call the emotional bank account. So because we foresee that things are going to go wrong, our kids are going to misbehave or have a meltdown, potentially have a meltdown or whatever. They're going to act their age. They're going to act their age. Because of that, I am very, very proactive about making daily emotional deposits so that I have the emotional capital.

Greg & Rachel Denning (18:29.334)
to influence them when they do have those meltdowns. And I think ultimately that's what makes the biggest difference. It kind of sounds like an abstract concept, but once I really understood that, that was the thing that made all of the difference. I think that's, so we actually talk about that quite a bit, and even in our relationship with Sam and me, because I'll just think like, you know, I'm...

One to one is great. Like I can give you a compliment or do something nice for you or benefit you. But if I, if I really, what I understand this to be is like any time you even ask somebody for something, you're withdrawing from that. So if you're a one to one ratio, that's like a very poor relationship that you have with another person.

When I was in college, I played football and we had a sports psychologist that worked with us named Craig Manning. And he talked a lot about this as well. And what he said is that for good relationships to function, you have to have a five to one positive to negative withdrawal. And he said for fantastic marriages, you have to have a 20 to one ratio, which.

I don't think, unfortunately for my sweet wife, I don't think I'm at that 20 to one ratio, but I think that's a fantastic point that you always have to be giving more than you take. you know, traveling, like we live in the States, we're here in Portugal, which has been fantastic, but during that travel period, Sam talked to her kids and she was like, you guys, we've probably heard a lot of nos recently. And that is...

that we know that we're talking about that a lot and we're having to have that type of boundary. So she confronts it. even in those moments, the point I guess is that during travel, we've had a lot of withdrawals from this process just because again, you need everybody to get together and not get lost or walk into the train or whatever it is. And so you're constantly having to shepherd them around where there are withdrawals. But finding moments on every

Greg & Rachel Denning (20:33.422)
interaction you have to create those positive deposits, think, that that really resonates with me just because of the past and the history that I've had with that type of training. So I that makes a lot of sense for us. And we talk a lot about that on a regular basis, too. So. Well, yeah. And so in a way, it's taking that principle because they're.

there are inevitably a lot of withdrawals that occur during travel, but even often during daily life. We're constantly telling them, don't do that, or pick this up, or do this, or don't hit your sister. And it's often hard for us to remember as parents, because we're like, well, this is my job. I'm supposed to be teaching you and telling you what to do, right? So you can be a good person. We forget that that's actually a withdrawal.

Their emotional bank account and so we do have to be very intentional even like the travel analogy We had to make as I you know wanted to become a person who didn't have these scenes I Became very intentional about telling them. good job. You did that. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for carrying your bag Thank you for you know, what do you see? You just really have to pay attention and then actually say something about it because then in that's how you

just put back a little bit of deposits every moment. But the same thing is true in our daily family life. know, it's just we have to be more intentional about paying attention for the good and positive things and then pointing them out. Because that's always for me the hardest part to like, say something about it. Well, I saw it this morning. You do this morning, Brian. So we were in the gym working out and your oldest daughter was in there and she was over in the corner kind of doing a thing and just start cranking out.

Fantastic form pushups. I was very proud. Yeah, and he was like full pushups like no assistant. It was very impressive. We're all just kind of grinding and all of a you're just like, yeah, way to go. And she looks up just beaming. Right. And then we all know it's like, yeah, way to go. Like that moment of praise sinks deep into the psyche of our children. And she's going to want to do great form pushups.

Greg & Rachel Denning (22:44.194)
indefinitely and I've seen it with our kids we praise those behaviors and I had to I noticed in myself I would quietly notice the good things and be like yeah but not say anything and then they do something wrong like stop that and so vocally I was correcting all the time silently I was praising all the time well that doesn't that doesn't make any deposits if I'm thinking hey good job and I don't say it so

Lots of emotion and excitement into the positive makes these huge deposits and it drives our kids in the direction we want them to go and you know I did that especially with Kimball and push-ups and now you guys see Kimball. He's a beast and it all started with me praising push-ups and now he's in the gym just throwing weights around just amazing and I started by praising push-ups.

It's such a cool way it plays out. Well and another example of how the emotional the proactive emotional deposits work for me was even this morning because you know right now we have tons and tons of kids here all the kids are having a blast like not I barely saw Sanji yesterday my seven-year-old like barely saw her and anytime I did I was like Sanji just come for five minutes, you know This morning she got up

the other kids weren't up and I knew this was my chance to make some deposits because I know if at some point I need to call on that and make a withdrawal, I need to have that capital. So I sat on the couch with her and I just rubbed her back, even though I sitting there thinking of 10,000 things I need to do, I'm like, I need to do that and that and that, but I made myself sit there so that if I need it, I've got that capital.

because then I can use it later, you know, for whatever reason. But taking that time out when I had the opportunity, because it's easy to just be like, there she is. Yeah, she's on the couch. I knew, OK, there's no friends. Nobody's around. Now is my chance to make this deposit so that I can have that connection I need with her for later in the day so that if there's.

Greg & Rachel Denning (25:01.664)
You know something happened whatever she gets upset or I need her to listen to me for something or whatever I know I have that capital because I made that deposit earlier the day and it's difficult for us to all Unless we're paying attention to realize that there is actually a direct connection to that. We don't think I did this in the morning Yeah, it's delayed. We I did this in the morning, which means tonight She'll go to bed when I ask her to yeah, but there is a connection as long as I don't break it during the day

or if I do break it, I repair it, I maintain that chain of connection so that when I need it, it's there and I have it. Well, this is an interesting example too. Like we've noticed when we travel for, for example, Christmas, we'll go visit family and it seems like when we do that, our kids, we lose our kids. Like we're just not, not just that they, that they're playing with the cousins, but they don't want to have anything to do with us. And, and so.

Because we are making those withdrawals, yeah, yeah during the travel process Yeah, and the interesting thing in a scenario like that is that even the fact that they're spending less time with you ends up becoming a withdrawal even though maybe you don't even do anything Yeah, because the deposits and the connections not being made. It's almost an automatic just withdrawal. There's just money that's always leaking out the deposits are always leaking out just If we're apart or if you're yeah without withdrawals, it's just

There's a hole in our bank account. I think that's good. Because you might think, why did it make any withdrawals? But it's almost as though the account just is slowly draining just naturally. If you had no interaction with them. Right. If you're on the same room, you're in the same house, and you're like, didn't make any withdrawals today. I love this idea because I think we just have to proactively be making deposits and connections, constantly building the relationship no matter what.

Because if we stay in neutral, it can't stay in neutral, I guess so to speak. I love that concept. Like you were talking about the one-to-one ratio. It's not sustainable. And when you come across a time when you need it, when you need that capital, if you've only been doing the one-to-one, you don't have it. Because now you've come across something that's big. It's a big ask. Like, be quiet. Everyone's sleeping. And there's not enough capital there to fulfill that.

Greg & Rachel Denning (27:26.924)
request that demand, right? And so it's almost like we've gotten to the point where it just becomes consistent that we're making these so that when we need them, we have it. And so coming around to the question that you haven't that I'm someday going to ask. This is a part of that. We have so much capital with our kids. That's what makes a difference. So can I add one other element as we're thinking through this?

Because it's not always just deposit withdrawal, deposit withdrawal, and we're trying to keep the account there. Eventually, I think, like you were saying, Brian, once the account is built up, like we're just making deposits all the time, we have so much relationship capital. It becomes exponential. Well, it becomes exponential. But then the kids start to do things on their own. We don't have to ask. Yeah.

I'll and they start following me into insanely difficult things. I'll just be like, Hey guys, I'm going to go climb this huge mountain. I'm going to go do this insane physical challenge. don't even have to ask. They're like, well, I'm coming too. Right. Dad. I mean, they're like, they, they just assume like, well, we're all going. Right. I mean, I don't even have to ask. And so there's.

I guess what I want to say here is point out is like you get so much capital with them then that now I don't have to ask I don't have to make a withdrawal the relationships there the examples there and They just like please let me come. Yeah. Well, so I have a question and maybe Sam can voice this a little bit better but you know, one of the things that I see as she homeschools is that she's constantly doing things for them all day every day Constantly giving giving giving giving

And don't know how you feel about this or what, you know, how it feels inside, but it seems like that can almost be depleting because, you know, they're 10 and eight and four and two, and they don't really, you know, the ages of your kids are, and they don't recognize the work that you're putting into it as far as like all the deposits you're making. It's like, I'm doing all this for you guys. how does that feel to you? And how does that, how do you, how are you able to?

Greg & Rachel Denning (29:51.456)
incorporate those deposits as you're already giving your entire day and focus and energy to them. Well, going back to what you were saying about seeing you guys in action is really cool because there is, and I think I learned by feeling, we've talked about this a lot, like when I can feel something and just kind of observe it, I learn really well. And that's something that I've noticed by just being here is

And I think we talked somebody had mentioned that you guys are simultaneously very intense and also very laid-back and so it's cool because I think in some ways I've been intense about everything or Intense about things that really don't matter whereas And that is depleting but those times when I know that I'm filling a bank account, I don't feel depleted, you know

It's those other times. It's more of the withdrawal times that are depleting. It's like, we need to get this done. I need you to unload the dishwasher. It's like all of that that is really draining. but seeing you guys how you are more relaxed around like a lot of the day to day stuff, you have really high standards, but I don't know. It's it's given me a different vision to take home. Like, I don't have to be so intense about every little detail. I don't know.

Well, yes, it makes complete sense and it's very insightful because the irony is and I think that this is this is one of those things where it's difficult to unpack the layers here because we can say this thing of like making deposits but the irony is not everything we do for our children is a deposit so we can do things for them and sometimes it's actually a withdrawal sometimes as doing something for them becomes a withdrawal or it's not a deposit simply because it doesn't count

for them. And they don't notice. What I hear Sam saying too is it's like in the way she approaches those interactions, it can either be done as withdrawal or can be done as deposit. And that has a different energy in each one of those interactions that can be either transactional or transformational. If you're doing it just to be like, hey, I'm going to do this so that you like me and I can get this back later, that's a very transactional interaction.

Greg & Rachel Denning (32:17.834)
If it's, no, I love you, I'm trying to build you into the type of person that ultimately is going to be successful and happy and balanced well, that's a whole different approach. Yes. And I actually was going to say that. That's perfect. Because that's the other key piece. It's so subtle. But the way you approach it makes all the difference. So if I feel resentment or anger or irritation or frustration, and I come at it from that place, it's not a deposit.

Whereas if I feel love and appreciation or gratitude and I come from that place, then it becomes the deposit. So really it is the way we approach it the most that determines whether or not it becomes a deposit for them and if it's something they actually care about, you know. Even the asking them to do things and I do this mentally all the time, you know. If I feel that

I don't have enough capital or I don't have the right attitude. I literally will not ask my kids to do something. I will do it myself. If I well, but but Rachel's staff, which is a good long term like that's a long term necessary thing. But in the short term, often I just know like I just need to do this myself because I'm not in the right place to get help. But when I get in the right place, then it's easy for me to ask and they

willingly do it because they come from the right place. Yeah. So it is very subtle and it can feel very like unclear. Like what? How exactly do I do that? But with practice and awareness, I realized that that's what makes a huge difference. I think what Sam, what you said and what Rachel's saying, that was really insightful for me.

that it feels like a withdrawal in your accounts too. So it's not like a withdrawal, just a withdrawal in the kids' It's a withdrawal in the personal accounts. Like this is draining to me to get intense about it. I know what I had to switch that and the way I switched it was with fun and play. And so I used to be like, I'm going to yell, give the dad lecture and maybe spank. Now my, my go-to almost indefinitely.

Greg & Rachel Denning (34:36.778)
tickles. And people will be critical of that or doubtful like no you need your kid to do what they're supposed to do they're not listening and tickling them is not gonna get it there. But it works for me because they know I'm dead serious and the end result will happen but I'm gonna get you there by squishing you like a grape and tickling you and like no this is happening and it has worked like a champ.

So I haven't lowered my standard. I haven't removed my boundaries. just said, I'm yelling doesn't work. The dad lecture. Well, okay. It kind of works, right? What people yell and spank because it gets a result in the short term. Yeah. Right. So if I want both outcomes, I'm like, no, Hey, I'm, I'm dead serious. Like your room's a disaster. It needs to be cleaned. And I'm legit. I'm going to.

tickle you and then put you in an arm bar and we're gonna be laughing I'm gonna be squeezing you until you're begging me to let you up so you can clean your room right because the room is gonna be cleaned but in okay and this is this is where you know I wasn't real thoughtful about it first but now looking back I'm like this is like for me personally as dad that's my that's my secret sauce like I'm in a way making a deposit

simultaneously while making a request. Yeah. Like I'm playing with them, having fun, getting them to do the thing that needs to be done. And that's a, I mean, that just works for me. That's just my personality. Rachel's never going to tickle the kids or anything. You're progressing. Okay. One more thought though that I have to share. So I don't forget this. Like Brian, when you're pointing out.

The work that moms especially put in for little kids is so thankless. I mean, except for they're adorable. And your kids are absolutely adorable. And they're just chubby, little, amazing. And I've even got some hugs from them. And I'm just like, that's the biggest payoff ever. Like they both ran over, both your little ones ran over and just gave me this hug this morning. was like, That's awesome. But I wanted to point out for everybody listening, you keep making the deposits.

Greg & Rachel Denning (37:00.014)
And you might hope that you're a two-year-old or you're four-year-old. You're like, if I love on them today, they're going to listen later. And today, they're like, I could give a crap about your agenda and your schedule and your... They don't care. They don't at all. And so with some of the little ones, we just are depositing, depositing, working, working so much, the payoff is in five or 10 years from now. Yeah. Right.

When you're a three-year-old is 13 and you have a phenomenal world-class relationship with a 13-year-old that does whatever you ask, that is priceless. It is worth anything. we've heard parents, before we had kids, I heard parents complain about the teen years. They're so terrible, so hard. Teen years are just rebellious, they're hormonal. It's just a disaster.

I mean, hadn't even adopted Kaia yet, and I had people telling me like, just wait till the teen years. Just got to endure them as long as you survive. I hear that so much still. It's infuriating. So Rachel, committed when the kids were little, like, we're not having teens like that. And people were like, you're delusional. Just wait. That's what we thought too. I'm like, no, we're not playing that game. And I can say we've had how many teens now? Five? So we're on our fifth teen.

Well, yeah, they passed through the teen years. So we've had five so far and it's been absolutely amazing. Yeah. The teen years have been phenomenal because these practices when they're young work. OK, so this leads into the question. The question, which all came to mind because we are here and we have witnessed like the first night we got here, your teenagers came out with some bowls of delicious food.

And you guys were like, here, let us have some. So they ended up giving their food to us. And not only did they give their food to us when we were done, they cleaned up after us. Like nobody asked them to do that. And then the next day after we were done eating, I go to take our dishes in and your 14 year old is like, here, give them to me. I'm going to do all the dishes. And I said, is that your job today? Like, do you rotate dishes? Like, how does this work? He's like, no, I just.

Greg & Rachel Denning (39:26.284)
I'm just going to do them. So my mind was blown. So that's what started this whole question of how do you get teenagers like that, which I think you've just you're answering now. Like you have this relationship that you've been working on for 14 years, basically. Yeah, that is the underlying foundation right there. And that I want to go back to this influencer.

That's what I see. When I look at someone manipulating their two-year-old like that, I think you're going to have a real problem with your tween and teen. That's what I see. And people look at her post, and they leave all these comments, and they think, well, she was perfectly calm. He learned the lesson. These are legit comments that people, because I left a comment on there, and people have responded to me and other comments. He learned the lesson because he calmed down, and then he.

gave her a hug and said, next time mommy. I'm like, no, he didn't learn the lesson. What he learned is to comply with whatever it is you want so he can receive your love and affection. That's what he's doing. That's manipulation. Yeah. And the end result of that, like that'll play out over years and it'll be massive amounts of resentment. It'll be people pleasing.

it'll be putting on a performance and act to get the love, to get the response. Like I'll do anything to get attention love from my mom. And then if that plays out, it ends up like that guy has a really unhealthy relationship with his wife because he's trying to get the love he wants and he's putting on this show to get the reward. And then all the while feeling resentful.

Because like it's because it comes down to not being his choice but doing it simply because that gets what he wants. It's a transaction. Yeah. Yeah. It's just all about the transaction. OK. So hypothetically let's say that somebody was a parent and had been raising their kids in a transactional way. not we won't name any names here. Guilty parties. But what if that was kind of the standard operation that you were you were implementing.

Greg & Rachel Denning (41:44.974)
How do you get back from that? Or how do you rescue yourself or the hypothetical self from that type of a foundation that you may have already built or the patterns and habits and interactions that you've already kind of developed with those hypothetical kids?

Greg & Rachel Denning (42:09.1)
Something else I was going to mention, I think that this fits here as well, because you talked about how the simultaneous, we need an easy term for it, like intensity, but being chilled, laid back, lax. And I think that that is one of the ways we do it, because we've learned to focus less on the momentary thing and more on the bigger picture. And the momentary irritations are simply reminders.

of how we can do better with the bigger picture. So if I come to a moment, you know, I tell people this all the time because I think it's significant. We haven't had a tantrum in 15 years. Our youngest is seven. So that, you know, says something. But the reason why is because we're focusing on the bigger picture and less on the. We talk about fixing what's gone wrong versus helping things go right.

when you're trying to deal with that whatever's gone wrong, it's the tantrum, it's the meltdown, it's whatever.

That is going to be determined by everything else that's gone before it, kind of like we mentioned before. So if I'm having this meltdown, if I'm trying to change it, like you're asking, you now have to use those as moments of reflection. Even though can be, you might have a situation where you need to have a quick short-term thing, whatever, that's fine. But for the bigger picture, you have to use that now as a moment of reflection. What do I need to do differently?

in order to achieve or have the influence necessary to get the result I want now. it's always, always, always, always, always comes back to what deposits have I not been making. So for me, and even at this point now, if there is some sort of behavioral issue, my go-to solution is solving, fixing the problem, fixing the underlying issue, which is they're hungry, they're tired.

Greg & Rachel Denning (44:15.726)
or they feel disconnected. Usually it's one of those three. Hungry, tired, disconnected. If I simply fix those things, I fix the problem. So if I say, wow, you're acting out. are like, they're misbehaving. Why would I give them a snack and hug them? But that's exactly what we should do. Like instead of jumping in and disciplining, we're like, hey, come here, come sit on my lap, the little ones, come sit on the lap and let's have a snack together.

Greg & Rachel Denning (44:44.803)
Wow you're really heavy now but but you can you connect with them and you have a snack together and I know I know this because people tell us like but why are we I'm rewarding bad behavior no you're not you're getting to the root of the issue and so instead of like being the issue sorry I was telling but what happens is like I put my arm around them

We actually go, we pull out some homemade ice cream. We sit down and we're like, Hey, what's, what's going on? And they talk through it. And that gentle, beautiful conversation was the most effective quote, disciplining that I could have ever done. Now that this is power house older kids, this will work with Sage or Sanji cause she'll be acting. We, this happened to us a couple of weeks ago when some of the parents got here and

Sanji was I could tell she was bothered by something because she was misbehaving she was you know being annoying and I knew something was wrong so my solution was I had her come sit on my set lap I rubbed her back and I said what's wrong why are you acting like this and she said well you said blah blah blah this and it made me feel bad I said I'm sorry I didn't mean to make you feel bad I just was trying to get you to do this or whatever

And then I think maybe, you know, I just kept rubbing and she said a couple other things and like, yeah, okay, yeah, I didn't mean that either. And then kept rubbing and rubbing and then finally she feels better and so she gets up and she goes off. So she's picking up on tons of things that you are not even noticing necessarily as being, again, withdrawals that matter to her. that's an interesting whole thing to bring up is like, what counsels withdraw, what counsels deposit? Like how do you...

How do you gauge that with your kids? And I guess the point that you've already made between the both of you is that it has to be a constant, just always err on the side of more deposits. Just always be that default mode. That is what I'm always wanna be praising. I always wanna be, again, helping to assist in what's going well and not just like.

Greg & Rachel Denning (47:01.902)
constantly nailing down on what they're doing incorrectly. Well, even something you said before, because that same night, our teens came over and were rubbing Greg's shoulders. you're like, how do you get trained your teens to do that? And one of the reasons why or how is because we've made the physical connection an important part of the deposits. Because we know that that it like the rubbing Sanji's back wasn't an accident. She loves that. She loves me rubbing her back.

Yeah, so I know if I offer that she's gonna take it Yeah, you know if I offered a massage Kimball's shoulders or alias shoulders or Atlas's shoulders Not my shirt mom my shoulders Because of that because that's part of the go-to it's like I can tell you're feeling upset like what's wrong?

it's just become natural. So then they also would just come up and do that to us too, because that's a part of our interaction with them. It's a part of the culture. But I still, I wanted to emphasize this. haven't said yet. One more point about your story with Sanji. So she's misbehaving. You could have reacted with some kind of disciplining, some kind of withdrawal, like, hey, don't do that.

And it would have been, yeah, go to your room, go sit down, get in trouble. And it would have been another withdrawal on top of the withdrawals, where instead it was like, hey, what's off? And she talked through it, and you actually made some deposits, and everything was resolved, and went on. So there wasn't a stacking of withdrawals. Yes. And the other key was I was able to do that while we were sitting there talking with the new people that had just arrived. Because I didn't have time to go out and take her another room or wait.

She was being annoying in that moment with all these new people here. And so my solution was, OK, I know she loves the back rubs. I'll have her come over and do the back rub. Greg can keep talking. And I can whisper to her. And we did the whole thing in whispers and resolved it. I didn't have to go anywhere. I didn't have to be in private. Because another key, back to my hating scenes and traveling the world, I had to learn how to do things that worked anywhere in any.

Greg & Rachel Denning (49:23.68)
anytime right like in a bus station in a train station at the airport whatever so that's the other part of it is that it can happen anywhere you don't have to be in a certain place or have certain circumstances but back to what I to say. Let's do one more thing I forgot we did this so when we started traveling we were going to be in public places and we didn't you know Rachel's

horrified fear of scenes. I was like, I gotta come up with a solution to not create scenes. And so we came up with a sound. And we talked about beforehand, we constantly reminded of them. And then we would make a little sound. It was like a little whistle that I would do, this little whistle. We would either snap or whistle. And so people on the train or the bus or whatever in the public area, they'd hear a whistle or snap and they'd kind of glance around, but they had no idea what was going on. But we have, in our family, we had this little reminder.

of like and the kids got tuned to it. It was amazing. They could and I still use my whistle. I can be I'll do it in a grocery store. We're in a crowded area. I have this one whistle I do and I'll whistle and my kids they they all come over. They know it's like that's the time and we just made it we made it fun. It wasn't scary. It wasn't threatening. I'm like hey when I make that sound like everyone needs to stop and you look back and we need to like check what we're doing and it works like a champ.

And so if they ever forget and they're getting rowdy or crazy or we're on a subway and they're like spinning, doing flips on the poles, and people are like ducking and dodging. we'll just like, and they'll look back and like go to the next pole where there's nobody, right? And Rachel's like, no, no playing on the poles. And I'm like, no, are you kidding me? Playing on the pole in a subway or metro, like for a kid, that's the best thing ever. Just go to the one where there's no people, right?

And so we made a little sound. We'd come up with strategies. I guess that's one of the things I want to share for everybody listening is like get way more strategic. And it might be tough at first because again, as a young dad, thought, man, I've got yelling and spanking and grounding. Time out. Time out. Those are my tools. Except immediately I was like, I'm never going to give time out. That's so stupid.

Greg & Rachel Denning (51:35.662)
I'm not gonna ground because I hated being grounded. Rachel got grounded for months at a time so she was on board. She's like, never. So we just decide young, we're like, we're not gonna do time out, we're not gonna ground. Like there's gotta be better ways. And so when I took away the tools that I knew didn't work, like the dad lecture, the yelling, I'm like, that doesn't work. And so I literally had to sit there, I'm like, what can I do instead? And at first I was like, there's nothing. There's nothing I can do, I've got nothing. But you get more strategic. I think the...

Most of us struggle because we're just not strategic enough. So more strategies, more tools. back to the... he has question. Well, I was just gonna say with Sanji, seems like, or Sage, sorry, I can't remember which one was. Sanji. Sanji, yeah. You already knew that that was something that appealed to her that is a deposit. you're already using something that is appealing that really result in a desired...

Interaction that you want it's it's something that's deposit for her right it's gonna help calm her down And so thinking like it's probably gonna be different for every kid too That's the thing is it always it changes because they all want different things are all in different places and Like one likes to be tickled some of our kids will cry if I touch them to try to tickle them so I get that yeah Yes, okay, that's for example. So you're like I'm gonna use the tickle for everybody It's gonna be a withdrawal for those kids

Greg & Rachel Denning (53:04.831)
I keep trying to do it with Sam and she threatening to hurt me every time. I try to tickle Rachel and like, no it's fun. She's like, you will sleep on the couch for a month. I'll ground you for three months. No sex if you try to tickle me. So you're absolutely right. And people hearing that are like, man, more work.

I have to pay attention to each kid? I have to come up with different strategies for each kid and the answer is yes. So we do the work upfront and we come up with strategies for each kid and guess what? Parenting gets easier and easier and better and better and we're to a point where either Rachel or I, it's a gentle ask and our kids do it. We don't have to threaten, we don't have to punish, we don't have like get after them. Like hey guys, would you help? Boom, there.

on it because we did the work up front of finding the ways that work for each kid. It's an absolute game changer. And I will say put a little plug in for Rachel's 28 day challenge because that when I when I was looking at the parenting level that was a big eye opener. The physical touch thing I started making sure that I was hugging

each of my kids every morning and then snuggling with them at night. And it was because of that 28 day challenge. I just I wasn't aware that I wasn't doing that, you know, so it took that really intentional focus on that, I guess, to notice and do it. How did the kids respond to that? they're well, it's interesting because the 10 year old, well, the older two are a little bit more resistant to physical touch, I guess, because I haven't been.

giving it as much as I thought I was. But after the past couple of months of doing it, they're way more accepting of it and want the snuggles at They're really back for it. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, yeah, well, you didn't lay by me for the same amount of time that you laid by them. What the heck? Perfect. Yeah. That's what we want. Exactly. And that's when I say giving that type of.

Greg & Rachel Denning (55:20.726)
deposit is also a deposit for me because I know like that that's doing so so many great things for our relationship okay I'm finally gonna say my thing okay just a warning to all your husbands if you have your wife read the book when violence is the answer she will use it against you

Rachel is so violent. I just wanted to add, I started reading to our kids when they were little and they would all pile on top of me when I little. I mean we had pictures when it was four or five of them sitting in my lap while was reading stories. Those are some of my all-time favorite memories and it was for them too. And so we had tons of physical touch, cuddle, reading books, telling stories, laughing, crying, just creating all these memories and so

It was the perfect teaching lessons and it was a way to close the day every day with touch and story. And it was transformational for them and for me. It was priceless. It was worth any effort. And I would fall asleep while I reading. I'm mid-sentence. I'd be exhausted. And they would like elbow me in the ribs like, dad! Okay, I'm back. And so it was hard, but worth every bit of effort. Okay.

So a couple things. Finally. So your question was, what do I do now? How do I change this? And part of that is using the moments that are frustrating and irritating and the behavior that you want changed as kind of now. And I get when I'm saying this that it's difficult to do because you're like, they're just misbehaving and I want it to stop right now. But I started using it as a time of reflection.

even if they were screaming or crying, I would literally kind of go in my head and be like, why are they doing this? But with a, not like, why are you doing this to me? You know, anger, but like curiosity, why are they doing this? And then I would go through a list. I'd be like, are they hungry? Are they tired? Are they, have they not cuddled enough? And then as you get to know each child, you can know like, there's even different specific things. Like they didn't get that thing they need, know, Kaya, our oldest.

Greg & Rachel Denning (57:46.062)
She needs meat. If she doesn't get meat, like she's a different person. And I'd be like, you're not, you're. So I would know, Kaia, you need some more meat, you know, have you been eating enough meat? So I would go through that, the questioning process, because the other piece of this, I'm mentioning them together, is that we're so drawn or driven to just solving the problem right then.

And I have learned to postpone solving the problem so that I can have a long-term solution that works in the moment, not in that moment, because I don't have the tools. So I know it'll work in the moment next time or in the future, but also maintains the long-term relationship that I want. So if I don't know the answer, if I don't know what to do in that moment, say like, know, Assange knew what to do. I'm going to rubber back. I'm going to talk to her. If I didn't know what to do, I would have just postponed it.

And if necessary, you know, whatever, I would have resorted to something older and taken her out of the room or whatever. But I would have postponed if I can, I'm going to postpone doing something and I'm going to let them misbehave so that I can find a real solution that will work then and in the future, maintaining the long term relationship so that I can get what I really want, because what I really want is

the long-term results. Part of the, and I have to add this, because part of that comes, I think is where that real laid back part of it comes in that we've been talking about. We're laid back about a lot more things because I'm not worried about all the things getting done. I'm less worried about my objectives than I am about the relationship. So I don't, despite the fact that we have very high standards and high expectations,

I rarely have them at the expense of the relationships. So I would love to be on time to church every time. But if I can't be on time to church and maintain the relationship, then we're late. Because the relationships are more important. I would love That may sound like the kids are the ones that are late.

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:00:16.298)
I'm not trying to get them to do their studies or their schoolwork

That's the objective, but if I can't do it and maintain the relationship, then I let the homeschooling go. I let the studies go. Does that make sense? That's a good example, but it wouldn't be like two years later, I still haven't found a solution. They're not doing their studies because I'm working on a solution. We don't play that game. But Rachel would be like, look, they don't want to do their studies and I don't have the right tool. I'm going to take today and tomorrow, maybe the rest of the week.

And I'm going to figure out something that's going work long term and create a real solution instead of like superficial symptom management. Yeah. Like, OK, so they miss a few days. They miss a week. So what? We're going to come back with a real solution that actually gets the results we want. So they do the studies, but then it doesn't damage the relationship either, right? Because that's ultimately what matters the most. And that's the thing that builds the foundation so that you have the capital so that you can have

the teenage and adult relationships with your children that you want most in that long-term 20-year vision. Yeah. I was just going to ask, can you give an example of if one of your kids didn't want to do their studies, would you create a whole huge system around that? What kind of solutions do you look for? So just like with the disciplining and stuff, it's very individualized. So I would.

go back to looking at what motivates that child, what they are interested in, what their passions and talents are. You know, I use this example a lot, but one is like when Kimball was probably 12 or 13, he was doing, it was actually the good and beautiful curriculum. he, in frustration one day was like, why do I have to do sentence diagramming? And I said to him, I'm like, I don't know. He's never done sentence diagramming again.

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:02:23.022)
That kid, I mean right now, know, he's remodeling a defender. He's very capable. He doesn't need sentence diagramming, right? And so I realized for him, that wasn't important. For someone, sentence diagramming might become very important, but it wasn't for him. I just literally dropped it. I was like, it's not that important for you to learn that thing.

Now in other situations, if he said, why do I need to learn addition? I'd be like, well, you do. So we're going to have to figure out how to motivate you to do it. And we lean into relevance. I think relevance is the most important thing in education. And it might be obviously relevant to us, but it's not always relevant to the kid. So I'm like, if I can't connect relevance in their brain at seven or 11, then it'll always be a battle.

So I'm like, how can I make this relevant to them? And I have found across the board and I've worked with thousands of youth when they finally get it, when it's relevant to them, they're on fire. It's unstoppable. You just cheer them on. But I also realized it came with maturity and age and stage. So Rachel and I had to understand childhood development and realize, man, trying to force a kid to learn this at this age, it's just a battle. It is a slog.

I'm like, let's let them learn something they're interested in, you know, and be afraid like, no, what if my child's behind in math or reading years behind? We found across the board, it didn't matter because they would catch up so fast as soon as they were ready. And your guys' youngest is a little guy. Boys especially, man, they are just not built for academic stuff when they're little. And when you try to force...

boys to sit still and learn academics, it will be an absolute battle that they will hate, where if you let them do rough, tough, tumble, play, and exposure, and adventure, and challenge, and taking these risks, when they're ready, they'll sit down and they will grind in the academics and do it very, well. So timing matters. And along those lines, back to Kimball's example, within six months or something,

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:04:36.59)
he had found or I had found a website that he liked to do for specifically grammar and you know spelling and sentences. And so then that was part of the solution as well. He hated the sentence diagramming in the format that they had but he loved doing this other, I think it was called Grammarly or no it's not Grammarly, Quill. Quill.org. He loved doing that. would get up every day and be like, ooh I'm gonna do Quill. Yeah, so he would just do it on his own because it.

So that's part of the answer as well. So my solution was, OK, I'm going to stop making you do that because you don't like it. And then eventually found something he did like and made it relevant to him so that he understood why it was in an approach that he liked. And so then now he's willingly, eagerly doing it rather than me trying to make him do it, right? And we've maintained that relationship. So you find essentially like a trigger that may be causing

Yes. A flare up, let's call it. Exactly. And then find a way to still accomplish the same objective, but just in a way that doesn't cause a flare up or the... won't say that Kimball's having temper tantrums because it's probably not accurate, but yeah, right. This is so cool because, well, obviously it puts the responsibility and ownership back on the parent, which is where it belongs.

Being a parent is super hard. It's a heavy load. And some of you listening might be like, one more thing I have to do. I'm like, yes. But once you figure it out, it makes parenting amazing and so enjoyable. So The key, ultimately, at least this is how I thought about it for myself, was How can I become more influential and more persuasive? Like I have to be an absolute master of persuasion.

And you guys know the fable of the sun and the north wind. There was a guy walking along the road with his jacket and the north wind and the sun were doing a wager and they're like, let's see who can get his jacket off. And the sun's like, hey, you go first. And the north wind just blew and blew and blew and blew. And the harder he blew, the more the guy held onto his jacket. He just leaned into it. He fought harder. And he blew everything. He's like, I can't get this guy's jacket off. And he's like, OK, sounds like, well, let me try. And he just puts out a little sunshine. guy just peels off his jacket, right?

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:07:03.7)
And, and there's such a powerful lesson there is like, just change your approach. Like one, you can try and try and try. You're, doing everything so hard and they just keep fighting it. And you're like, what if I, what if I'd stop like being so intense about this and I step over to the other side and we just talk about it differently. And then they're like, yeah, totally. Yeah, I'll absolutely do that. What, what the change was me. And in, in, in often cases, it was easier. It's easier to be persuasive.

than it is to try to be forceful. But we have to think differently. And I had to totally force myself to think differently. Like, wait a minute, how can I have more influence? How can I get my kids to do something so I don't have to yell, I don't have to threaten, I don't have to count? You and I have talked about the counting thing. And we did, we did the counting thing. And I was like, they only respond on three.

Just start going to three. Yeah exactly. I'm gonna count to three. Three! And then you go and I would probably do that. That's literally what I would do. I'd change up the whole thing. I'm like if I have to count to three you get it. Three. And then I would just get it. And then they're like this game's over. Right? Because we condition them and so instead of doing that I'm like what can how can I earn more influence? And how can I be more persuasive? And I started trying things. I'm like man this works like...

magic not to be manipulative not to use it too much or in weird ways to get them to do things that are dumb or that don't matter to them but if you use persuasion well you win I think that's another key part of the persuasion and again it's something that we feel like makes it more challenging to be a parent but in the long run it actually makes it easier and that is simply explaining to think

explaining things to them at their level and we I think people sometimes feel that that allows them to talk back or to be disobedient but for me I've never wanted obedient children I've always wanted thinking children I've always wanted children that could think that could reason that could that were self-directed right and that requires them to actually talk back

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:09:24.558)
Like they have to ask you questions. They have to question why. They have to say, you know, like, why do I have to do this? And that... Or that space to say, I don't want to do that. Yeah. Okay. Exactly. Right. Having that permission and that space to be able to say something like, don't want to do this is a beautiful place because that gives you both an opportunity to talk through it, which is the basis of learning how to think. Like that's how you learn how to think is by...

Walking through or talking through a scenario of like well, why don't you want to do it? And why is it maybe important? And how could you learn how to want to do it or whatever having those conversations is what gives them that self-directed Cognitive ability so that then they are the ones who are doing the thing because they want to do it and because they understand why it matters

Not because I'm telling them to do it because I'm the parent and that's what you're supposed to do. One of the things I mean. Yeah. One of the best things I think Kaia ever said to me is she was like, Mom, you always explained to us why we should do things in such a way that I'm like, it just made sense. And so you would ask something and then we'd say why and you'd explain it and we'd be like, yeah, OK, that makes sense. I'll do it.

And that to me, that's the answer. Like as soon as kids have relevance and they feel like that makes sense, they're willing to do things. They're really actually pretty sensible. They want to do things that make sense. Well, here's an example that I've seen with your guys' kids already that is so cute with the exercise thing. Because you guys, you like exercising hard with them. And they're still resistant because they're super young, right? In fact, I didn't expect any like self-inflicted challenging workouts until my kids were

close to 14. They would do it here and there but consistently pushing themselves hard it was after 14. But you're already in the stage with them and and it was adorable like when I was going with your little ones. They were just like I was cracking up because we're going along and they're like I hate this. I hate working out. Working out is horrible. My dad worked we work out.

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:11:43.882)
It's hurting and the whole while I'm just responding like I love it when my legs burn. It means I'm getting stronger. Not me. That hurt. I hated that hill. I'm like, I like her second one. Yeah, it was so fun. We were just having a blast and we're just laughing and going along and she's like, it's the worst. And she's gone. But I'm not responding. Right. I'm not. I'm just laughing. I'm like, I love the hills because that's where my legs burn the most. She's like, that's where it makes me sick. I hate hills.

I want to go down. Actually, I don't even want to go downhill. I want to go home. It was so cute and so fun. Right. And so they're just dialoguing out loud. And you're like, well, no wonder when you're that age and your muscles burned, you're like, I'll do anything to make this stop. It's when you cognitively like this hurts so bad, but I know it's good for me. I want the outcome. So all the while, when they're little, you just keep articulating it. So every time my kids are like, my legs burn, I'm like, yes.

You know that means? I'm like, yes, dad, it means I'm getting stronger. I'm like, that's right. And I was constantly reiterating the positive. And they would keep saying the negative. They just keep going, this sucks. This is horrible. I hate this. And then all of a that stopped happening. And by the time they reached the states, they're like, I love grinding. It's so good. So you guys are already doing it. And then when I had your little one on my shoulders, and I told you this already,

or like running back and she's like, go faster, run faster. And she's like, I ran like 50 miles once without stopping. Right? She's four. She's four, right? And like wants to avoid any effort. She's like, there's a hill. Will you carry me? She's adorable. But in her head, she's like, I've been so far without stopping. And then she waited for a second. She's like, actually, I think we did stop at a couple of places. But that was like to look at the view or something. It was so cute.

So you want to keep planting these things in there. It's like, we've done our things. We do cool stuff. And keep planting that stuff. Because again, the whole focus is, who do I want them to be in 10 years from now, 20 years from now? Who do they want to be? Because I'm here to help you be who you be. Facilitate and build the tools in them that they can become and have whatever freedom they want moving forward, hopefully for good means, obviously.

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:14:09.09)
being able to instill the skill set, the mindset, and the grit, I guess, to be able to accomplish that and achieve it, yeah.

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:14:21.326)
Okay, this is probably a good place to stop. It's worth every effort to set aside time for thinking, reflecting, writing, strategizing, right? I just, again, I wanna reiterate this. I just don't think most of us are strategic enough. So anywhere we're struggling, anywhere we're not having the results we want, time and reflection and writing help that to get more strategic and like, you know,

And again, I said this, most people said, they're like, I've tried everything. Like, no, you've tried like seven things. I know it feels like everything, but keep trying more. If you had tried everything, you'd have the results you want and you'd figure out a way, right? So I just want to reiterate, like all these things we've been talking through and discussing, like keep finding solutions, especially if you have a particularly difficult child. We were having this conversation in the kitchen the other night where you're like, if you have a kid that is

just so determined or so persistent. mean probably every family has one or two of them. You're like yeah that kid and like you don't want to kill that. The last thing in the world you want to do is kill the drive in a child. So I know those of you listening you're like but I have you don't understand Dannings I have this one kid like yeah I hear that from every family. Every family has the one kid. Work with that kid the most like make sure the relationships there the deposits are there.

guide that force so that they become a bullet train going in the right direction and they'll carry the family. and especially if you can if you can get this done really well with the older kids the younger kids just follow suit. Because yeah once you get this instilled in the older kids I mean all of our older kids are basically

reinforcing the same ideas and so then it becomes this positive feedback loop where they're contributing and and not just contributing but modeling for their siblings so their siblings just think yeah this is just how we do it and you know I know we've talked about it but I also want to be clear you saw you asked the questions about our teens but you know even I would say six months to a year ago Atlas was in the difficult stage like he was

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:16:48.522)
in the stage of resistance and like I don't want to do anything and I don't want to help out in any way, you know? Well, it's like you said, levels of development. Exactly, right. They all go through that. They all have the, you know, especially I would say 11 to 14 for boys, but girls go through it too. They go through those phases, but the key is to not, during that phase, we never were just like, well, okay, this is just this kid, I guess. We were like, no.

here's the expectations, right? And we kept reinforcing what was expected. And we didn't destroy the relationship. Right, we kept maintaining the relationship, making the deposits. We continued the strategies. Also, that includes restricting certain privileges or whatnot as necessary so that we had the expectations there, including the working out. Like he was not working out a year ago.

And now that kid's in the gym every day, even on his own. that all came about because that's what he wanted. He chose it. He opted in. But he wouldn't come. And so I kept inviting. I never stopped inviting. So for three years, last three years, I invited him to work out. And he would work out maybe once a week. But I didn't ridicule him. I didn't get after him. Nothing. He ate like a teenage boy and didn't work out. And so he got a little pudgy, whatever. I didn't say anything.

No mockery, no nothing. Kept inviting, inviting. He was watching me and his older siblings just grind and he's coming to be like, that looks like a lot of effort and pain. He just has that look of a 12 year old turner like, why would anyone do that? And we just kept inviting, kept inviting. We kept making it look like fun. Now, and again, didn't say anything. Just invited, no criticizing, no condemning, no mockery, nothing.

then we kept inviting and now he's like just like three days ago he's like I'm gonna get shredded abs and he's fasting on his own you have a 14 year old boy on his own fasting and grinding in the gym yeah so now he's doing intermittent fasting 16 hour fasts on his own I haven't said anything he just watched and we kept the relationship up so when he was ready he's gone and his he's probably gonna be the biggest kid in our family he's gonna be a beast

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:19:13.068)
Yeah, he's just going to fill out and just be jacked. But this is what it's all about. And it's worth all the effort and the work. it's amazing. Family life is amazing. And it's such a reward. So you guys, thank you for being That's been great. We appreciate you guys having us. This has been really fun. Yeah, thank you so much. We love you guys so much and love your awesome family. And you're doing so many amazing things. And it's.

It's just awesome to meet up with you again and see your family grow and transform. And I was just thinking your oldest is 10. So within the next two years, she's going to go through a massive change and it'll be another. You'll be like, I thought we just had this figured out. And she'll start the transformation, the puberty, the teens. And it's just this whole new, amazing stage of life.

It's just, it's so awesome. I know. I love it. Family's, family's the best. It really is. And, and there's a, there's a big attack on family. So I think we all need to put in our effort to keep our family strong and then radiate out to the rest of the world. Like this is what it can be like and give other parents hope for, for these kinds of things. So you guys, thanks for listening. Love you. Reach upward.