May 14, 2025
#312 Ambitious Moms: Big Dreams & Little Kids — How to Navigate the Baby/Toddler Years Without Losing Yourself or Letting Go of Your Big Dreams
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Feeling torn between your big dreams and the tiny humans in your care?
Do you ever wonder if you’ll ever have the time, energy, or space to pursue the big dreams in your heart — while you're still night nursing, co-sleeping, and managing tantrums between business tasks?
You're not alone.
In this episode, Rachel gets real about what it takes to be an ambitious mom in the baby and toddler years — and why the real secret isn't doing it all right now... but doing what matters most and learning to trust the process.
You'll hear:
- Why it’s okay (and wise) to pause or rearrange your dreams — not abandon them
- The long-term power of building a secure foundation for your child first
- Gentle strategies for night weaning and moving beyond co-sleeping
- What Rachel would go back and say to herself as a young mom with a business and babies
- Small ways to nurture your goals in this season without burning out
This is your permission slip to stop striving, lean into the season you're in, and trust that your dreams are safe — even if they're on the shelf for now. 💛
Key Takeaways:
✅ The early years are critical for a child's emotional development.
✅ Self-care is essential for parents to avoid burnout.
✅ Meeting a child's needs leads to less clinginess and more independence.
✅ Co-sleeping and breastfeeding can foster a secure attachment.
✅ Intentional parenting creates a strong foundation for future relationships.
✅ The chaos of parenting can be embraced and enjoyed.
✅ Sacrificing personal ambitions may be necessary during early years.
Chapters
00:00 Embracing the Chaos of Parenthood
03:04 The Importance of Mindset in Parenting
06:24 Understanding Child Development and Needs
09:16 The Long-Term Investment of Parenting
12:05 Balancing Self-Care and Family Needs
15:22 Creating a Secure Environment for Children
18:17 Navigating Relationships and Priorities
21:07 The Value of Minimalism in Parenting
24:25 The Evolution of Parenting Practices
28:08 Creating a Safe and Secure Environment for Children
36:02 The Importance of Self-Care for Parents
50:28 Building Strong Foundations for Future Relationships
RESOURCES:
Let us help you in your extraordinary family life journey.
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Rachel’s Must-Read Booklist for Well-Read Moms
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Follow us on Instagram: @worldschoolfamily or @greg.denning
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Get Rachel's Family Systems & Charts
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Join the Extraordinary Parent Mentoring Method Workshop Series for busy moms
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JOIN GREG'S 90-DAY HEALTH & FITNESS CHALLENGE !
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Gather with us at the World School Family (Beach & Farm) Resort in Portugal
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Read our reviews here: https://podcast.extraordinaryfamilylife.com/reviews/
0:00
Little people are amazing, but man, they're chaotic.
What takes place during these ages will carry through the rest of their life.
0:06
They're coming in just clean sight, like what is this place?
What's going on be?
0:10
There for your child because they need you I'm.
Not going to lock them in a room, close the door and force them to stay in there.
0:16
Like how would you feel?
You're the adult, like get control of yourself.
0:21
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast where your host Greg and
Rachel Denning.
0:27
Today we're talking to Busy moms with little people who are amazing.
Little people are amazing, but man, they're chaotic.
0:37
And time consuming.
Well, and messy and time consuming.
0:42
And did I mention messy?
And they don't give a crap about your agenda.
0:47
And your ambitions?
Or your schedule, which I think I think God designed it like that because we have, we've thought
0:54
through everything.
I'm going to do this and this and this and this and this and this and this.
0:56
And at this time I'm do that and, and we have this whole plan and the little kid, just like, I don't
care about anything you have planned.
1:04
In fact, I don't understand what that word even is.
I'm hungry or I want to play or I want to sleep or I just want your attention and I will demand it.
1:13
So we want to talk through all of that.
And so today we're specifically addressing parents with young children.
1:22
We have, we currently have older children.
And so I think a lot of our episodes talk to parents with older children, but we still love parents
1:30
with young children and we love the phase when children are young, even though it is all those
things you just said.
1:37
So we want to talk about strategies, approaches, the and most importantly, the underlying framework
and mindset we need to have during this time period because I think ultimately that's the most
1:48
important thing.
Like that's what we really want to emphasize.
1:51
So I, I'm super excited to talk about these things.
Same as we love babies man I love babies and if it were up to me I we would still.
2:00
Yes, if you are the one that could have the children, we would keep having babies.
Yeah, I'm like, what more?
2:05
Let's go.
I love little kids.
2:07
Sometimes I'm envious of people who have, yeah, 1014 kids.
I'm like, yeah.
2:13
I I'm not envious of the sleepless nights.
I'm not envious of the nonsop messes and the the demands that they require.
2:25
But there is so much magic, I think, in little people.
And it's it's easier for us to say that now, now that our youngest is 8 and our oldest is almost 23.
2:38
I mean, it's easy to say, oh, those ages are so magical.
So those listening.
2:43
Are like, yeah.
And it's easy for you guys.
2:46
You're sleeping through the night.
You get to go out to nice restaurants and take vacations and.
2:51
Go on dates.
But I do want to say this with total sincerity.
2:54
We're not making this crap up.
We enjoyed that time like we enjoyed the little people.
3:00
I had a blast with it.
I thought it was so fun.
3:04
When our 7th was born, our 6th was only what was she?
Maybe a year and a half, two years.
3:10
I think she was actually 2 1/2.
So then we had this little I just running running stroller thing I.
3:19
Lived in Germany.
Strap them both in there and just go run through the forest in Germany every day.
3:26
They loved it.
I loved it.
3:28
It was so bad.
So maybe that maybe that's the first strategy there.
3:31
It's like dad's, dad's got to lean in, man.
And I know dads are working and got all kinds of stuff going on and we have to take care of all
3:37
kinds of logistical things in the house and the cars and all the stuff.
But we also have to take on that joyful responsibility of giving mom a break.
3:48
And it's not babysitting.
Dads don't babysit, right?
3:51
There's no such thing.
It's like, these are your kids and if you have to go away to work, that means you have to make up
3:57
for your absence by being all in.
Like none of this crap of coming home and plopping down and watching TV and saying you're with the
4:07
family.
That's garbage.
4:09
You got to come home and be engaged.
You got to come home and be a dad and find fun, cool things that are fulfilling for you and exciting
4:17
for them that you all enjoy and do those things all the time.
Now I can hear you saying, man, I'm tired.
4:24
Great, get over it.
I generate some energy.
4:27
And again, I, I say that because because I figured it out myself, but I also teach, I teach my guys,
I teach the men that I coach how to generate energy.
4:36
So energy is renewable.
And that has to be one of the main things we talked about today is like, you got to generate energy.
4:42
So dad, you got to come home, get re engaged, get excited, get diving with those kids and the and
the chaos and the craziness and lean in and be the adult, be the king in your Kingdom.
4:54
Yeah.
And that gives mom this huge break, which I know that's one of the things we're going to talk about
4:59
today is moms have to have this window where they're like, oh, this is my recovery window.
This is my personal time.
5:04
This is when I feel like a a normal human being again, a woman.
Yeah.
5:10
So you did, you jumped right into the strategies, but I want to read the message that I received
specifically so that we can talk about it because there are a lot of strategies that we want to talk
5:22
about.
But I also, I, I want to so strongly emphasize the main important mindset and framework we have to
5:29
do.
And that's what I'm excited to get to.
5:31
OK, so she says, I was wondering if you could do a podcast episode on your advice for parents with
very young kids, babies and toddlers.
5:38
I have an 18 month old and I run a business.
My partner works full time in a corporate job.
5:45
We spend our evenings cooking and cleaning and I have no energy at the end of the day and cannot
seem to find the time to pick up a book or to have space to think.
5:55
We literally cook, clean, do laundry and bed every evening.
I will not send her to nursery who goes to her so I'm caring for her full time and keeping up with
6:06
the business.
When she naps I Co sleep and breastfeed which I know is the best thing for her but I struggle to get
6:13
up before she does because as soon as I get out of bed she cries within about 15 minutes.
I'd love advice on how to gently stop breastfeeding at night.
6:23
And if you Co slept how did you move on from that, especially when the next baby comes along?
My daughter will only sleep with me, my partner is in another room.
6:32
Thank you for everything you do, you're an inspiration and also advise on things like toilet
training.
6:37
We may not get to that today, but we might.
So first of all to start off.
6:43
I have some thoughts.
I have some thoughts I want to start with what I said is the most important thing, the mindset, the
6:49
framework that we need to understand as parents when we have young children.
Because I know that it's so easy to forget because she actually sent me another e-mail and she
7:00
talked about how she's so ambitious and driven.
I can relate because I'm the same way.
7:04
She has all these things she wants to do, she wants to read, she wants to build her business, she
wants to scale, she wants to like all the things.
7:10
I get that because I am the same way.
But we have to understand, especially as mothers.
7:17
But I would say as mothers and fathers that these years when they are young, Erica Kumiser says zero
to three.
7:26
I would say even 0 to 5-6.
I would say 0 to 25.
7:31
But with what I'm about to say, if you have to choose, I would focus on those younger ages.
You have to realize that this piece, this phase is the most critical in creating a solid foundation
7:48
for having a well adjusted, happy child who grows into a well adjusted happy adult.
Now what what I mean by that is what what takes place during these ages will carry through the rest
8:02
of their life.
It will determine the type of behavior they have as they grow older.
8:06
It will determine whether or not they were Bell as a teenager.
It will determine whether or not they have good mental health.
8:14
It will help to determine their self esteem, their confidence levels.
It it establishes their entire mental framework for life.
8:20
Yeah, their identity is essentially established during these ages, let's say zero to five, that is.
When in fact, I was just doing a little recent research just a few days ago and I would say zero to
8:32
seven in this context because by 7 years old, they really have the bulk of the mental framework for
life established.
8:38
And, and really what they're wondering is it is is the is the world safe?
Will my needs be met?
8:44
Are the most important people in my life dependable?
Can I trust them?
8:48
Will will this work?
Do they love me?
8:50
Will they care for me?
Will they?
8:52
Respond to my needs.
Yes.
8:53
If I'm afraid, will they protect me?
If I need something, will they help me get it?
8:58
What is?
What is life, right?
9:00
Because they're coming in just clean slate, like, what is this place?
What's going on?
9:04
And if we love them and care for them and nurture them, meet their needs, we're not spoiling them.
They're not going to be rotten little turds.
9:11
You cannot.
Spoil a shade.
9:12
I'll just to throw this in.
You can't spoil a child under the age of, I would say 3.
9:16
Yeah, because what's happening is they're just realizing, oh, everything's good.
Yeah, I can be my best self.
9:23
I can lean in.
I can take risks.
9:25
I can go afterlife because the people I have to count on, I can count on them.
But if we do these weird, funky parenting things or we, we get distracted by business or other
9:37
ambitions.
And so we want to push the kids to the side and put them on the side burner, right, so that we can
9:44
work on our things.
And so while I like, I'm not blaming her for her question here because I had the same questions.
9:50
We think, well, how do I kind of get my kids to fall in line a little more so I can do the things I
want to do?
9:58
And while we do want to share some of those strategies, because I think there there are ways to be
more strategic, ultimately what I'm trying to say is that your child's needs during these ages are
10:09
the most important thing.
And if you have to sacrifice almost everything else, like I'm not going to say sacrifice your own
10:15
well-being, you have to sacrifice a lot in order to meet those needs.
That's what's most important.
10:23
And it will pay off.
You have to see this as a long term investment.
10:29
You have to think, what kind of child am I going to have when they're 19, right?
And behave and sacrifice in a way now that will guarantee that.
10:39
And what guarantees it is by meeting those needs.
So if your child needs you all day long, first of all, the more your child needs you, the less
10:50
secure they feel.
So that's one sign.
10:53
If your child is very needy, it means they don't feel safe and secure when you When your child feels
safe and secure because you regularly meet their needs, they're actually less needy and you have
11:05
more freedom.
You'll have hours and hours while they play peacefully and joyfully.
11:09
Yeah, exactly.
So that's one of the ironic, the ironies there is that the more attention you give to your child,
11:18
the less they will need your attention.
And so they become less clingy, less needy.
11:22
That's one of the key pieces there.
But if you mentally and emotionally are constantly trying to get away from your kid, and you're
11:28
thinking about and longing to do other things that your mind's elsewhere, they totally.
Pick and they feel threatened by that, not like they're jealous per SE, but they're they're really
11:41
terrified because they think, Oh my gosh, this person that's the most important to me in the world
doesn't want me.
11:48
That's what they're feeling on a very basic level, right, Something they can't articulate to you,
but that's how it feels to them.
11:56
It feels like the most important person in my life that especially at a very young age, they really
can't differentiate that you're separate.
12:03
They really think you're like you're connected.
You're the same being right?
12:08
And so they feel threatened by your distraction from them because you are the most important thing
in their life.
12:16
So.
So business growth will be slow, slower during these times and.
12:23
Maybe even non existent depending on the needs of your child.
Because here's another thing to that's important to remember.
12:28
We don't get to decide what our child needs even right now.
I, I, I want to use this example of our 8 year old, but I think it's true on all levels.
12:38
Right now our 8 year old is in this phase where every single night when she says good night to us,
she literally hugs us like 3 or 4 times.
12:48
So she'll go out, she'll come back in and she'll hug us again.
She'll go out, she'll come back in and hug us again.
12:53
And then she does these little, the little hand heart things and we have to do it back, right?
This is her face right now.
13:01
I don't know why she feels like she needs that, but I know at some point, as long as we keep doing
it, we're like, yeah, OK, we're here.
13:08
We're going to say goodnight every time.
We're going to do the hearts.
13:11
She'll eventually grow out of it, right?
And then we'll miss it and.
13:15
We could.
We could really do some serious damage.
13:18
Yeah.
If we were like, stop already.
13:20
Go to bed.
I told you to go to bed.
13:22
I already hugged you twice.
You don't need to come in three more times.
13:26
Just go to bed.
That would just break her little heart.
13:29
She is like, so in love with us.
Yeah.
13:31
And.
And she wants us to see the little heart she's doing with her hands and she wants.
13:37
And so we're just like, OK.
OK, OK, we'll keep doing it.
13:40
And so I think that that's an example because that happens at every phase and stage and age of a
child, that when our child does those types of things, our job is to show up and reassure them.
13:51
Like, yes, I'm still here.
Yes, I am still here.
13:54
Yep, here I am.
I'm still here.
13:57
I will still take your hugs.
I will still love you.
13:59
I will still give you what you need.
I am here for you and I'm not going away.
14:04
That is what they need the most.
That never ends.
14:06
If you have a good relationship with your children, that will never end because when they're
married, when they're exhausted, when they're new parents and they're like, guys help.
14:15
I need help.
And mom and dad is like, hey, we're here.
14:19
We got you.
Yeah, you're good.
14:21
We help with their kids, our grandkids.
But.
14:23
And even this is this is fitting for marriage.
Like Rachel needs to know I'm here.
14:31
Yeah, I'm here.
I'm listening.
14:33
I know you're feeling everything and and you need me.
You need to then and process.
14:37
I'm here.
Because ultimately that is the foundation of emotional health and emotional well-being and, and
14:43
mental health is having that security and that stability, knowing that, like you said, you can count
on the people in your life that are important to you.
14:53
And that's what it's all about.
And even while you were saying that, I thought of another example with our older children yesterday,
15:00
because we have an 18 and 19 year old girl and boy.
And they're moving into that phase where they're also figuring out what the opposite sex is like.
15:09
Like, oh, boys think differently than girls and you know, all these things.
And so they both came to me and to talk to me about things.
15:19
And you know, I'm there helping them figure out the emotions, figuring out the the complexity.
And as I was going to bed, you know, my 18 year old gave me a hug.
15:29
I was just like, thank you so much.
So I can come to you, I can talk to you, I can rely on you.
15:34
That's what it's about.
But we build that type of relationship with our older children while they're babies.
15:42
That's when it begins.
Now, if we didn't do that, we can repair it.
15:47
It's not too late.
But what I'm trying to say to this mom who has young children is that this is the critical age when
15:55
you can solidify that for your children.
And if you do, it will make the rest of your parenting journey that much easier because you have a
16:06
solid foundation.
Love it, I love it.
16:09
Again, just reiterating though, ambitions, dreams, goals, fantastic.
That's great.
16:14
Have them, but they come 3rd, maybe fourth.
Yeah.
16:19
So I would say self-care is first because you you can't draw from an empty well, you can't give what
you don't have.
16:25
So you got to take care of yourself.
So, so definitely if you have to choose between, well, hopefully we don't have to say if you have to
16:32
choose between yourself and the baby, you have to take care of yourself in order to take care of
your baby.
16:36
It's like putting on the oxygen mask first.
But if you have to choose between yourself and the business, you definitely need to choose yourself
16:44
100%.
Like forget the business, focus on Yep.
16:47
Same with the baby baby, your business.
Baby first, then the business.
16:51
But then don't neglect your husband either.
Remember, you're married, you're still a wife.
16:57
And moms are like these lean in.
They just fall in love with their babies and the baby replaces the husband.
17:02
And in this case, the husband's in the other room.
Like no way, Jose, that he needs to get back in the room.
17:10
I'm.
Going to talk about that though.
17:11
I'm good because I'm going to talk about it too.
Because.
17:14
That needs to happen.
But but let me let me finish my point.
17:16
Like you can't neglect the husband either because if you go self baby business, then husband, he's
not going to stay around because he's like what what I'm out of here.
17:28
And this, this I'm sure is an unpopular opinion, but it needs to be said.
I think, especially during this phase, if a woman has to give a business and career, great because
17:42
you'll have time for that later.
And I'm speaking from experience.
17:45
I did.
I, I tried to work on things during those age, those phases, and I always just ended up feeling
17:52
burnt out, overwhelmed and unhappy.
And when I decided to put it on the side burner or the back burner, the business, the career, I
18:01
thrived, I did better and now I have time to work on the business.
So there, there will be a time to work on the business.
18:09
But your children, they have an expiration date because eventually they grow out of childhood and
then you've missed that chance.
18:17
So this is the priority.
This is what matters the most, even if you have to sacrifice those other things because yes, I agree
18:25
with you, the husband definitely needs to come before the business.
So, So what one of the things I want to say is that if we focus on putting those things in their
18:34
proper place, then we actually feel better.
And sometimes we even have more energy to be able to then like, OK, yeah, I can do some business
18:42
stuff because I filled those other buckets that are the most important.
And those are what support me.
18:48
They give me that energy I need to be able to do all the other things.
So sometimes, like, you know, she's saying we're literally cooking, cleaning and bed every night.
18:59
She's exhausted.
Sometimes what needs to happen is instead of doing the things you think you should be doing, the
19:04
cooking and the cleaning and the laundry, you're like, you know what?
Forget that.
19:07
We're going to go have sex or we're going to sit and cuddle and talk or we're going to like we're
going to do something that refills us, that helps us recover rather than just grain, grain, grain,
19:19
grain, grain.
Because everything becomes transactional at that point.
19:22
It's like, that's lame.
Like what are we living for?
19:25
To to pay the bills, to Playhouse together, to be roommates?
This is stupid and so it will even with the kids too.
19:33
It's not just feeding, cleaning up bedtimes, naps like have fun.
Right, we should be enjoying.
19:39
It yeah enjoy every minute of it every phase like oh look what look what she likes now let's do this
let's do that let's try that let's like have our lives be filled with beautiful things do.
19:50
Crafts and fun things together.
Right.
19:53
So like what fills you is like you can, you can do, yeah, you can go out to the lake or the pond or
the park and or go just sit on the grass and enjoy the sunshine and play in the snow.
20:03
Like all these things that both of you are getting satisfaction and fulfilment and renewal.
And I think if there is ever a time to do that in life, it's definitely during those ages like that.
20:14
Like I'm giving you permission if you need it to like really just revel in that kind of stuff.
Because I think all, and maybe it's just me, but I think a lot of mothers, we have this idealized
20:25
vision of like childhood and raising children.
And it's like a picnic blanket in the sun and these beautiful little children sitting there, you
20:33
know, like that's a vision that we have.
And I'm saying this is the time to do that thing.
20:40
We don't have to wait.
Now, one of the concerns we may have and sometimes maybe one of the drives we have to building a
20:48
business is money.
So I'm not going to say that doesn't play into it.
20:53
But what I'm trying to say is, even if you have to live on a budget or simplify or or go minimalist,
I think especially during these ages, it's worth it and that it makes a difference.
21:08
You and I did that.
That was the approach we did when our kids were young.
21:11
We started travelling, but we travelled on a budget.
We went.
21:15
Minimalist.
We were very minimally, very simple lives.
21:18
But our kids grew up in, like, the jungles of Costa Rica, and they were out playing with machetes
and, like, there was just total freedom.
21:25
There wasn't a lot of stress and structure and like things had to be a certain way because of
societal expectations.
21:32
We just live.
They had a carefree childhood.
21:34
We had a carefree life.
Like it's really was an amazing way to raise young children because that's what they really need
21:42
most.
They need.
21:43
Our business grew very, very, very slowly because you and I were both fully involved in raising
them, taking care of them, homeschooling them, and we were fully present with them and it, it was
21:57
worth it.
It made a big difference it it does.
22:01
So that's the underlying emphasis is that really lean in to these years and be there not in just
quality time but quantity time as well for your children.
22:17
Now I do love that she's not sending them just to a nursery or a care.
Percent.
22:23
They're just not good.
Daycares are not healthy places for children.
22:28
They should not be in a daycare if at all possible.
They mostly need to be with you, the mother, or at the very least with the father.
22:38
One of those most important people in their life needs to be with them. 24 or 7.
I love that she's Co sleeping and breastfeeding.
22:46
Those are obviously great things to do.
We Co slept I.
22:50
Think about 18 months though.
There needs to be a bed nearby.
22:53
Depends.
Yeah, but you right, you should definitely start making that transition and we did that because she
22:59
asked specifically.
So we Co slept with all of our children even are adopted.
23:04
I mean when we adopted our first we started Co sleeping and we did it with all of them.
But you can definitely start to transition them out because everybody does begin to sleep a little
23:14
better.
And I would put a a little bed or a little crib thing next to the bed.
23:19
So they were still in the room.
Yeah, but they were nearby.
23:23
They knew we were there for them.
And I never left, I think.
23:26
I think it's important like.
Actually, no, because I was going to disagree with that.
23:29
I do remember, and this was specifically when we lived in Costa Rica the second time and Sage, she
was the baby.
23:37
I do remember that we actually slept in different rooms and so I.
I don't remember that at all.
23:42
I must have blocked it from my memory.
It must have been a traumatic time for you, but because I had this room that had a oh, because I
23:50
think you would actually go sleep with one of the other kids who was still Atlas was young and he
needed some care.
23:56
And so you would go sleep in that room now, of course.
This was like sometimes this was not consistently.
24:03
We did not neglect our sexual relationship, of course, because of that.
And it was just purely sleeping like, OK, now we're going to sleep.
24:12
So I'm going into the other room because I think he would wake up in the middle of the night.
I just remember because I would sleep in a bed.
24:18
We had a house with no doors or windows, K people, and a bat would fly over my head while I was
sleeping.
24:25
And I remember being a little bothered by that.
I'm like, oh, I wish Craig was in here because there's this bat flying over my head, but that's why
24:33
it stands out to me.
And so I think you would go just to sleep and help him sleep through the night so that we could
24:39
sleep through the night better.
It was a temporary.
24:42
Well, and it was It was normal for all seven of our children.
If they were under the age of five, they would frequently come in to bed during the night.
24:50
Or sleep on the floor.
They would, they would, and again, sometimes they sleep through night.
24:55
Sometimes they wake up, walk in the middle of night and they crawl in and sleep in between us or
come sit next to us.
25:00
Like every once in a while we ended up with two of them in there sleeping sideways kicking one of
us, punching the other.
25:05
It was wild.
Or they would bring something and sleep around the bed and, and we were fine with that.
25:10
We expected it like it's normal for them.
They're checking in, they wake up in the middle of night like am I safe?
25:16
I'm going to go in to my parents room.
But it always ended somewhere around 5 or 6.
25:21
They realize, hey, I'm good, I'm OK.
And they were able to do it.
25:24
And we we made it feel safe.
We never scolded them.
25:27
We never got after him for coming in.
It's like, hey, it's OK.
25:30
It's also important for people to realize one, if you look at it from an evolutionary perspective, I
mean, that's what humans have always done.
25:40
They always slept near each other.
They didn't live in a house with separate rooms and bedrooms.
25:45
They slept together.
So it's just, it's a very natural, normal thing for children to want to be near their parents when
25:52
it's dark.
Like for some reason the Western world thinks that that's strange, but it's not.
25:59
It's.
Been like since the beginning of humanity, it's been like in a cave or a small log cabin or a teepee
26:07
or a long.
House or whatever, If you actually look at the history of sleep training, which I think that this
26:14
ties into sleep training, the sleep training that we know of today came specifically from the Nazis.
Like, I'm not kidding you.
26:23
They used it as a tool to distance parent, parents and children from each other so that people would
grow up and be easier to control because they didn't have.
26:32
In fact, if you look at the history of communism or fascism, anything socialism in general, the
state and the leader of the government is the most important person in the world.
26:43
There's no religion.
More important than the parents.
26:45
Yeah, family is diminished because the the government is the most important.
And one of the tools they would use to do that is sleep training and all of these things that would
26:55
create attachment disorders, which then created people who are easy to control, who look to the
government authority as being like the most important.
27:05
So it's all, it was all very strategic and.
Brave New World.
27:09
Yeah, it really is very much like that.
So that idea that we should be sleeping in separate bedrooms and, you know, totally be separated
27:18
from each other the whole night, that's just a very weird and strange idea that's not normal
compared to the rest of the world.
27:24
But the other thing I think that's important to point out, because people have asked us like, we
lived this travel lifestyle.
27:31
We've, we've been to 60 countries, we've lived in dozens of countries.
We moved a lot and people thought, well, how can you create family stability in that type of
27:41
situation?
Like it's not possible because you need to stay in one place and have routines and have stability.
27:46
But one of the ways we've been able to do that is because these types of things, Co sleeping and
allowing them wherever we were in the world, it didn't matter.
27:55
They would come into our room and they felt safe and secure.
Like my parents are here so it doesn't matter where we are or if I'm in the same bed or if I have my
28:03
stuff, my parents are here and I feel safe.
Which is I think important principle like that kind of stability and security is not location
28:11
dependent exactly.
A lot of people think it has to do with location, It doesn't.
28:15
It has to do with relationships.
Exactly.
28:17
It's relational.
And and bonding and attachment, right?
28:21
Yeah.
So, but that of course doesn't mean like, you know, now none of our children sleep with us, right?
28:29
We have our own, we all have our own bedrooms.
They all sleep in their own beds, in their own rooms.
28:35
And, and I think I think it's worth sharing here, we would, we did the Co sleeping when they were
little and then sleeping next to us as as much as we could like in the same room and in a little
28:47
bed.
From like 18 to 18 months to five years depending on the child.
28:52
And, and usually not even that old, but then we would, you know, get them into another room,
especially when they had siblings and then they would go in there and they had each other.
28:59
Sleepings it was easier too because they have their siblings to sleep with and that helps.
And, and so that, and we would often go in and, and lay down by them and help them go to sleep and
29:08
sometimes lay there until they went to sleep.
And then, you know, inevitably they'd wake up sometimes, not every night, but sometimes they'd come
29:15
back in, OK, whatever.
But we're, we're gently teaching them that you can go to sleep in your room and if you wake up, you
29:23
can come in and it's OK.
And so we, we gently build that security and now they're all fantastic and, and totally solid.
29:31
So in this scenario here, you know, when she has an 18 month old, she's still breastfeeding.
My probably my suggestion if it was me is I would be getting another bed that was next to the bed,
29:43
whether that's a little crib or a playpen or they even sell nowadays, I think like a bed height crib
with three walls, you know, something like that, so that you can begin to make that transition where
29:55
they're still in the room with you because they want to be.
It's normal.
29:58
It's not, it's not, it's not normal for an 18 month old to sleep in a room by themselves.
That's just it's not.
30:04
Especially if they're a only child.
Right, especially if they're only a child.
30:07
That feels like solitary.
Confinement present, it feels like exactly solitary confinement so it's and and the whole cried out
30:14
method the sleep train, it's just not healthy.
It's psychologically damaging.
30:18
And I know that that sounds really strong to some people, but it is.
And I love what Erica Kamizer talks about.
30:26
She said there's there's big, big T trauma and there's little T trauma.
And big T trauma is things like if you get in a car accident or something, you break something or
30:36
you're sexually abused.
Like it's big things.
30:39
But she said every single one of us has been experiencing little T trauma throughout our childhood.
And it's things like being left to cry it out because to a young child who's all alone and can't
30:50
control their environment or what's happening to them, to be left alone and then have no one respond
to when you're crying.
31:00
All it says is I don't live in a safe world.
I can't trust the people around me because when I cry for their help, they're not there for.
31:07
Me and you put them behind bars, like in a crib, right?
And then they just scream and scream and scream.
31:12
So it's not healthy, it's psychologically damaging.
It is a little tea trauma and it should be avoided at all costs.
31:20
Your child needs to know that you are there because then they will grow up to be healthy and
mentally and emotionally stronger, and more importantly, will trust you and be able to rely on you
31:32
and turn to you for the rest of their life.
Here's, here's a framework that I used when the kids were little.
31:36
I, I always tried to put myself in their shoes.
Like, OK, if I were, if I were two, if I were three, if I was this age and and I was experiencing
31:44
this, how would I feel?
And, and it, it quickly makes sense.
31:49
You're like, that would feel horrible.
That's the equivalent to me sitting there with a, a 10 or 12 foot person this massive and I'm this,
32:01
this little teeny guy and everything's out of reach.
I'm totally incapable of taking care of myself.
32:07
I really, really want something, but I can't do it.
And if I try, they just pick me up and force me away and maybe don't even tell me what's happening,
32:15
grab me, move me over and scream at me for wanting something and and trying making my own little
attempts.
32:21
And I'm just this little teeny helpless think like who would be infuriating and terrifying, right?
And so I'm like, man, that sucks.
32:31
Like I'm no way.
I'm not doing that.
32:33
I'm not going to lock him in a room, close the door and force him to stay in there.
Like, how would you feel even if I So those of you listening as a full grown adult, if I grab you,
32:41
throw you somewhere you don't want to be, close the door and I can find you and not let you out,
you're going to go bonkers.
32:47
Even as an adult.
Yeah, you'll lose it.
32:50
You'll lose your bananas.
Right.
32:52
And yet we're trying to get little kids with like they're brand new to this world and this life with
Delta.
32:59
Emotional regulation because because they lack the prefrontal cortex, which is what regulates
emotion, they don't have any emotional regulation.
33:08
Nor do they have a frame of reference for time or like reason or, or like, oh, this is just for
time.
33:16
And then I'll I can get out or, or this just for tonight.
I'll see him tomorrow morning.
33:20
They don't understand what tomorrow morning is, right?
They don't understand like the the whole setting and rising in the sun all.
33:25
It's like they don't get it.
They're just like, I'm being isolated.
33:28
So it's important put yourself in their shoes and see it from their angle and be like, oh, OK, yeah,
I can approach this differently.
33:35
And I want to say something, although I don't want it to be too hurtful or painful.
But the sad thing to me is that very often parents are doing that because they can't control their
33:47
own emotions.
They're so overwhelmed, they're so distraught, they're so upset that they treat their children that
33:55
way.
And if they're doing it to protect them from even more harm, great.
34:01
But if you're doing it simply because you're tired of dealing with it, grow up.
You're the adult.
34:07
Like, get control of yourself and be there for your child because they need you.
They're the small, helpless person, not you.
34:18
You're an adult, so act like it.
Stop playing the victim.
34:22
Grow up, lean in, get the tools and resources, the coaching you need.
But you have to level up and that is so.
34:35
Critical to level up and when when they grow up, and we know, we know this because we work with
clients when they grow up and then they behave in horrible ways and they treat you poorly.
34:49
The only reason that happens is because that's how they were treated as young children.
And that's difficult to hear.
34:56
And I know it, and it feels devastating.
But until we realize the truth about how things got the way they are, we don't have the power to
35:05
change it.
So truth is power.
35:07
Truth, you know, knowledge is power.
But we have to understand and then we have to take a different course of action.
35:14
So that's why I continue to emphasize how important this is at these ages because it is going to
make all of the difference.
35:22
It will literally determine what kind of experience you have for the rest of your parenting years,
and so meeting those needs is the most important thing you can do.
35:33
I think I think it's a good place to maybe focus on some self-care.
Just to to touch on a bit.
35:37
Let me finish a little bit more with her questions real quick about Co sleeping and breastfeeding.
So again, it's kind of about this way of being strategic.
35:45
It's just like you would do with anything, you know, it's like little by little.
So you don't take the child from sleeping with you and then throw them in another room.
35:53
That's just so drastic.
But you can definitely start scooting them over to the other side of the bed.
35:58
And then you can scoot them on to a separate bed by you.
And then you can eventually have them be on the other side of the room.
36:03
Little by little, you make this effort.
And then in the meantime, partner can come back and start sleeping in the bed now because the
36:09
child's in a bed in the room, right?
So all of that starts to help you get closer to what you want.
36:16
And that's always the approach I took is I would, I would look at what was happening with my child.
I would see that they needed me, but I would also think, well, OK, how can I quote UN quote, wean
36:28
them?
Because that's essentially what you're doing.
36:29
You're weaning them from this thing because it's not sustainable in the long term for either of us,
right?
36:36
And I would just be very strategic about like, OK, here, little by little, we're going to do this.
One of the things I would use, at least for me, is like.
36:45
Slowly overtime.
Overtime, right?
36:48
It's not like an overnight thing.
So like she's talking about breastfeeding.
36:51
I would start using a Binky so then at night pass whatever people call it like.
They just have different.
36:56
Words.
Yeah.
36:57
And so at night, especially if they woke up to breastfeed, I would always start by giving them the
pacifier instead.
37:03
Well, you were even better than that.
You started intentionally breastfeeding right before you went to sleep.
37:09
So even if they were already asleep, you'd kind of nussle in and and so you're you're feeding them
right before you went to sleep.
37:17
That way your window of sleep went much longer.
Yeah, so I read about it in a book and they called it like a dream sleep.
37:23
So right.
I would put them to bed and they'd be asleep.
37:26
And then right before I went to sleep, you, you didn't like totally wake them up, but just enough so
that they would nurse.
37:32
And so they're basically filling their stomach before you go to sleep and that would help them sleep
longer and not, you know, and then.
37:40
That bought you windows of uninvested time, right?
That was very important.
37:43
So it's like little strategies like that where you're like, OK, how can I be a little bit more
intentional about this so I can be better about getting the sleep?
37:50
Then she mentions the thing like she can't get up before her because if she gets out of bed the baby
starts crying right?
37:56
And it's amazing how they have this.
So that's what I was thinking.
38:00
They know like when you got out of bed and you're like, I did that perfectly.
They just know your presence is.
38:04
Gone right and and that's actually a beautiful thing like they know whether you're there or not and.
They and they know whether you're standing or not because they'd falsely where you're standing and
38:13
you'd try to sit down and then wake up.
You're like, how do you know if an altimeter, Yeah.
38:19
But but in a way it is beautiful that they, they can sense your presence so much.
They know when you're gone.
38:24
But something I would do in a scenario like that is I would plan for that and I would work around
it.
38:29
So she's mentioning wanting to be able to read or do different things like, OK, I would before I go
to bed, I'm going to prepare.
38:36
I'm going to have a book right next to the bed.
I'm maybe I'm going to have my laptop, maybe I'm going to have my phone.
38:41
It's all going to be right there.
So I can sit in bed while that baby sleeps and I can read.
38:46
I can work on my computer.
I get like, whatever it is you want to do, you can do it in bed next to your baby so you don't have
38:54
to, you know, feel like that.
Awesome morning routine, yeah.
38:57
Absolutely and still, quote UN quote, meet the needs, but not feel resentful or stuck because you
have to lay there and do nothing because you can't get up right.
39:06
So it's it's little things like that.
When I first, when I first heard this is she wakes up and cries by 18 months, crying shouldn't be
39:13
happening.
A baby wakes up and they, they should be able to crawl out of bed on their own.
39:18
Like they learn how to get down with, you know, scoot little feet First off the bed and then they
come looking for you.
39:24
Children who've slept well and feel secure.
They don't wake up crying.
39:28
They wake up smiling.
They they want to play, they want to find you that they come looking.
39:33
It's, it's actually a beautiful thing.
And that we have like done this religiously.
39:39
Very first things our kids experience when they come into consciousness is US greeting them with big
smiles and hugs like you're awake, we're so happy, welcome to a new day.
39:52
And we just deeply ingrained that because we were excited to see them and, and we were happy that
they're awake and they're here for a new day.
39:59
And so they love waking up and we love when they woke up and and they were greeted every day.
Because again, they're coming into consciousness and again, consciousness varies for kids wherever
40:08
their ages, but they're coming into this semi consciousness of like, wait a minute, what's going on?
And if the first thing they see is you smiling and like, hey, you're awake.
40:18
They're like, yes, life's amazing.
But if you're like you again, why couldn't you just stay asleep?
40:25
You're interrupting my life.
And if your child feels like an interruption to your life?
40:30
Yeah, well, then that's when the the neediness and the cleanness and the crying increases because it
it's their way of responding to feeling unloved or feeling unwanted, right.
40:42
And so, yeah, that is a good point that you brought that up.
OK.
40:47
You said there was something else you wanted to talk to.
I want to address this, this whole idea of self-care so that you're filling your well because if you
40:58
feel full, you're, you're so much more capable.
And we all feel better when, when we are in a good state physically, mentally, spiritually,
41:05
emotionally, we're in a good state.
We make better decisions, we respond better, we react better, we behave better, our habits are
41:12
better.
We're we're more motivated, we're more disciplined, everything.
41:16
Is better as a mom.
I I think you're also less resentful, right, because moms end up doing things that they feel
41:22
resentful about doing.
But one of the reasons that happens is because they're not doing self-care, They're not recovering,
41:29
they're not feeling they're well, they're not feeling themselves.
And so they do the things because they have to do them.
41:36
Or they feel guilty for not doing them, but they feel resentful for actually doing them.
And so then when they have any kind of window, they're like, I'm going to work on this thing and
41:43
work on that thing and do this.
And, and then when the window ends, you're like, it wasn't enough.
41:48
It wasn't enough.
And so it's always this feeling of never enough.
41:51
God I can't wait till the my baby goes back to sleep.
Or grows up that's.
41:55
Terrible.
And then as soon as they go to sleep, you run and try to do some tasks that you should be taking
42:01
care of yourself, taking a nap, doing something that fills you, reading a book, stretching,
exercising, something that renews you.
42:08
But we jump on social media and scroll for a long time because we weren't able to.
Or we try to work on this project knowing it's a gigantic project and you maybe have 30 minutes, but
42:18
you don't think that.
And it's like it's over and the kids crying, not again.
42:21
And and so you just go along just hating your life and resenting your kids and your life and
everything in my life wasn't supposed to be like this is terrible.
42:31
Where in reality, like, Hey, wait a minute, like what's the most effective thing you can do with
your time?
42:36
Well, take care of yourself, eat healthy.
So when when I hear her saying at the end of the day, we're just so exhausted, barely hanging on,
42:45
cleaning up, doing laundry, doing bedtime and and I'm like, I'm like, wait, why?
Yeah, part of me is saying, well, what are you doing all day long that makes you feel like that?
42:54
Because yes, I understand that an 18 month old requires a lot of attention, but there's a way to be
giving that attention that's joyful.
43:04
That's that's feeling.
It's not exhausting.
43:07
It's not exhausting it.
It's.
43:08
Yeah, so.
Beautiful so the first thing in my mind and and then again I get to coach a lot of people I get to
43:13
work with I'm super strategic about this.
My my whole passion is optimization.
43:17
So as soon as I hear somebody I'm exhausted and I'm like wait why there's there's no reason we
should be exhausted at night.
43:23
Like if you're if if you go out and run a marathon today, you might be sore and exhausted tonight,
but you're playing with an 18 month old and and doing a little work on your business.
43:34
Like what gives?
Something's off.
43:36
Well, and, and this is a great point to interject because she had actually sent me an e-mail as
well.
43:43
And in the e-mail, she talked about how, you know, she, she thinks I would love to have a big
family.
43:51
And you've really inspired me that this is possible.
Sometimes I think I can't even manage with one.
43:58
How could I possibly manage more kids?
And the principle I want to point out here that I learned, of course, is that yes, having one child
44:07
feels way more exhausting than having seven.
And the reason why there's a great quote that says help me with it that your ability to do is
44:18
increased.
That which we persist in.
44:21
Doing.
Becomes easier to do.
44:23
Are we both going to say or should I?
This is from Emerson.
44:25
That which we persist in doing is becomes easier to do.
Not that the nature of the thing has changed, but that our ability to do has increased.
44:32
Exactly.
And so that includes being a mom When when we're a new mom and we have one child, it does.
44:39
And I get that.
I remember feeling the same way when I had one child.
44:44
I was exhausted at the same at the end of the day.
But one of the reasons looking back, that that occurred is because my attention was scattered.
44:52
I wasn't focused on being in the moment, being with my child.
I was thinking about all of the things I wanted to be doing instead.
44:59
And that's exhausting.
So that's one of the keys there.
45:03
It's like self sabotage, but it is.
But as I increased in my own capability, then having two children and then three children and the
45:11
four and then all the way to seven, it was easier.
And everything became easier because I became more capable.
45:18
So that that's the key, that's the secret.
There is becoming more capable because then it's easier to do more things with less stress.
45:25
Exactly.
So you increase your own capacity.
45:27
And part of that, we learned, is to flip these switches.
Like wait a minute, like I, I can generate energy.
45:32
Working out actually gives me more energy.
Eating healthy food gives me more energy.
45:37
So if I'm sitting at home in my sweats, I'm not getting ready, I'm not working out, I'm eating junk
food, Well that's just all self sabotage.
45:45
And I'm I'm taking care of my child, but wanting to be doing something else instead of that and and
feeling all of these feelings about it.
45:53
That is exhausting.
That's draining energy.
45:56
But if you literally are in the moment with your child and enjoying it and loving it.
And then when you, and that doesn't mean you have to literally be the whole time, like watching,
46:06
doing nothing else, it's paying attention because then your child, they'll start doing something
else and they'll be fine by themselves.
46:12
And you're like, oh, great, now I have a few minutes to do something.
And you do that little thing for a few minutes and then they come back and they're ready to engage
46:19
with you, quote, UN quote, interrupt you.
And you say, oh great, here I am now I will give you my attention.
46:24
Like she said, reading, she wants to read more.
So you sit there and you read a couple pages knowing full well you're not going to get through a
46:30
chapter.
They'll come back, interrupt, and it's OK.
46:32
You close the book wherever you are, engage with the kid and they're like, ah, good.
And then they go off and you open your book back up.
46:37
You get a couple more pages.
Then what we talked about before, where the more you joyfully meet their needs, the less needy they
46:47
become and the more that becomes a part of their norm because they begin to realize, oh, it's OK.
I, I can quote UN quote, give mom time to do the things she wants to do because when I need or want
46:57
her, she will be there for me.
And so I there's a sense of security that gives them this confidence that it's OK if you are
47:04
distracted by other things because you will give them your attention when they need it.
So I would say just just just quick kind of overview some of the best things you can do for your own
47:17
energy and vitality.
Get up and get ready and when the kids are in there, like do it like just make it fun.
47:22
Have them come in there, have them help you pick out outfits, whatever.
Make it fun.
47:27
Get ready so you feel good.
Move your body and you probably move your body.
47:30
Exercise before you get ready, but get some exercise in like when you move your body you even.
It's like just yoga, stretching or walking or running.
47:38
Or with your kids.
And yeah, kids love it.
47:40
Put on a video, put on a song, and you do the workout and they're sitting there watching and they
try to do some little push ups and sit ups.
47:47
They climb on top of you.
Great.
47:49
Do your sit ups and your push ups with them on your back.
It's fun for them.
47:52
It's hard for you.
It's awesome.
47:54
And you're training them.
No, this is what we do in life.
47:57
Yeah.
And then eat well, get rid of the junk that's in your house.
48:02
If you're eating or drinking garbage, wonder you feel like crap, you're putting crap in your body.
So, yeah, the day it was empty, it was like, well, yeah, look at yourself.
48:14
You don't work out and you eat garbage, I guess.
I mean, there's some, there's some.
48:19
And even if that's all you did all day with your child and you made it like a good experience for
both of you, that would be enough.
48:25
You're winning.
You are winning, literally.
48:27
That is the definition of winning at that age.
Yeah, and I don't know, I mean, we're we're, there's some Frank talk in this episode here, but it's
48:35
true.
Like if you're not taking care of yourself, specifically your body, by eating well and exercising,
48:43
then who do you have to blame?
Besides the fact of what you're actually teaching and modeling for your child like this is how life
48:52
works.
This is how parenting works.
48:54
Parenting works by you paying attention to your children and then showing them how to live.
Right.
49:00
I, I, I can run circles around our little kids.
I don't want to wear them out, right?
49:05
And they're just like, oh, I can't keep up with dad.
And they pass out and take naps.
49:09
I'm like, yeah, let's go.
And I still have energy to spare, right?
49:13
It's we've just got to be more strategic and do the things that bring us value and energy and
clarity.
49:24
We got to help ourselves.
Problem is, we're trying to play the victim.
49:28
We're trying to blame the kids.
We've got to help ourselves.
49:33
And then we're capable of far, far more than one cute little girl.
That's easy.
49:38
And keeping in the perspective, I want to keep coming back to this perspective that this feels like
a very long time.
49:45
It feels like, I mean, here, it's been 18 months since this child was born and you're still meeting
their needs, right?
49:53
It feels forever.
But I want you to know it's not.
49:57
And I know.
That they'll be 18 so fast.
49:59
Cliche, they grow up so fast but it is true and you have a limited time to make an investment that
you can never make again.
50:08
This is your time now to focus on them because they every single day they are getting older.
They'll never be as old again.
50:16
Time is fleeting with them.
And you will miss this.
50:20
And if you don't do it well, you have will have missed an opportunity to lay the foundation for a
well adjusted child who grows into a well adjusted adult like it.
50:32
It's so I I don't even know how to emphasize this strongly enough for people to understand how
important it is to lay this foundation, because it will make all the difference and it will make all
50:44
of your parenting and the rest of your life relationships with your children who are adults that
much easier, better, and more enjoyable.
50:54
Just had another thought.
I know you, you maybe have somebody come over and so you're there, you're still in the house.
51:00
We have somebody come over one day a week for a few hours and meet the needs, you know, get a little
snack, play games, take them for a walk at the water or whatever so that you can be more focused on
51:09
some, yeah, some work you want to do.
So you're not sending your kid away.
51:14
You're not neglecting them.
You're there, you're in the house.
51:17
They know that they feel safe, but it's someone else they can play with and have fun.
They can meet their little needs.
51:22
They're distracting them in an enjoyable, pleasant way.
So you can have some real focus time for a few hours to help move things forward, if that's
51:30
something that's really important.
Yeah, so just.
51:32
Start Start thinking of opportunities or strategies.
I think it's good that you said that because we have spent a lot of time emphasizing how important
51:39
it is and giving up and sacrificing and all of that.
And while I think that's true and if you had to choose, that would be the better way.
51:46
But once the other piece too is that once you build that stability with your children and they feel
that security from you, well then naturally you're going to continue to fill these drives of things
51:59
you want to do.
I mean, that's just a part of who many of us are.
52:02
We're ambitious, we're driven.
And so then it is it's about being strategic of like, OK, I'm still going to meet my child's needs,
52:08
but what can I do?
So I have a little bit more of this time.
52:11
And that is one example.
That's great.
52:13
Then of course, even having another child, I know sometimes that feels like you're making the
problem worse.
52:20
But over time, having siblings, it's easier to parent children with siblings than a single child's
only child because they have each other to play with to distract each other.
52:31
And that does end up giving you more time and freedom to work on some of these other.
Things and you don't want the gap to be too big.
52:37
So right now it would actually be a good time to get pregnant.
So the answer to your question is go ahead and get pregnant.
52:43
Have another baby.
Does not feel like an answer.
52:46
No, and it and it's hard, but before we started this podcast regional we're talking, it's like yeah,
young kids are tough.
52:51
They are a just.
A challenging.
52:54
Age.
Massive amount of work.
52:56
And we know because our first four, when my fourth child was born, our oldest was 4.
So we had four children under the age of four.
53:03
We know it is very busy.
It is very crazy.
53:06
But we're telling you now, having the experience of that oldest child now being almost 23, that
these approaches make the best, the biggest difference for the long term benefits that you want.
53:21
They work and it's awesome.
And then you have a great relationship with your kids.
53:25
You have all these beautiful memories that you'll have for the rest of your life.
They have this, this.
53:30
They won't remember these years, but it's recorded.
Yeah.
53:37
The all the little wiring in their brains is, is being built.
All the scaffolding, all the the whole mental, emotional framework is being built.
53:46
So it's imprinted.
It's recorded even though not remembered.
53:51
And so when we do it, well, they have the scaffolding there and the the wiring.
This just says, hey, you know, things are good.
53:57
This family's good.
And they grow up to be great kids and family life is the best life.
54:05
It's absolutely amazing.
So worth the worth the sacrifice is worth the effort, worth the strategizing to get this stuff
54:11
right.
OK, love you guys.
54:15
Reach upward.
