#281 Facing Your Fear and Moving Through It: The Path to an Extraordinary Life

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. are your host, Greg and Rachel Denning. Just got back from an amazing day at the beach where, let's just say, I got a lot of vitamin D today. Feeling good, feeling nourished by the sun.

Okay, I had no intention of sharing this, I'm just going to share it just to ruffle some feathers. We do not use sunscreen because is like a tangent in the wrong direction. This is not that podcast, It's toxic sludge. It's a chemical and people think the sun is killing us. It's not. The sun is nourishing us. Giving us life. It's giving us life. It's amazing and it has for many, many thousands of years. now all of sudden people are like...

We need to put chemicals all over our bodies and our skin is absorbing all those chemicals. And what's really damaging our bodies is the way we eat.

That's the real thing. Now, saying that, I'm going to get some hate mail, except we don't get mail anymore. It's getting people fired up here. But do your homework. Look into it. Be open to it. Be like, that's interesting. I'm going to consider it. guess that's why my invitation is consider new ideas. Because somebody comes out, you know who comes up with the sunscreen idea? It's people who sell sunscreen. And they're like, no, you need this to protect you. And man, they make millions.

millions and everyone's like I need that and then we buy it and it's like why are you putting all those chemicals on your skin anyways okay back to topic we have been thinking a lot you know for the last 23 years or more about this idea but we were having adventures all the time we're making

Rachel Denning (03:06.586)
big decisions often as we've leaned into living an extraordinary life, we've leaned into making big decisions often. Yes. And I think part of a catalyst is while we were at the beach today, I got a really great question from a friend that sparked this conversation with us. And I think it's important and necessary to address here because it really is a key

element or ingredient to the basis of our podcast and Extraordinary Family Life, you know, we have to be able to understand this process and embrace it and and move forward with it because without it we end up living a life that's less than extraordinary. We end up living a life that's maybe not full of what it is we actually truly desire or actually want and

So for me, that's the catalyst of this conversation. I know you have some other points you want to address as well. But I'll just start with a question. I think it was essentially along the lines of, in the framework of just having adventures and doing things and going out and being exposed to new things and new places and new environments.

The question is along the lines of, you ever, have you ever, specifically referring to our family, come upon some adventure or experience or goal that you're pursuing and felt so overwhelmed by it that you decided not to do it. Something, it was in essence that, something along those lines. And that's such a really great question.

Because I feel that all of us have faced that feeling at some point where we want to do something, but then when we get to the reality of doing it, the challenge of it is so overwhelming, right? Like the word that was used, that we just are like, I can't do this. It's not possible. And so we don't do it.

Rachel Denning (05:24.044)
Now as I'm speaking here, because part of my answer to her at the time was, well yeah, we have, but I couldn't think of a time right then when we backed away from it because we're going to go into that why, but that's just not how we approach things in life. The why is initially was my craziness. I was, I just became a ready fire aim guy.

That definitely plays a part of it. I would just go. Right. Like no, no. Like what about all this stuff? I don't care. Let's go. We'll figure it out. Yeah. Out the door we went. Yeah. And I started living like that at 16. And I was just like bold, crazy. Didn't even think through logistics. like, I am jumping out of this airplane. I will build a parachute on the way down. Like whatever. And we're not.

We're definitely not going to be talking this podcast that that's a virtue and that's the way you do things It's just the way that was enough to get us started for sure I think and that was part of it. We were when we started our crazy Unconventional life. We were both very young We were in our 20s and we were there was a lot of that you were the impetus as far as that goes and I just kind of was like, okay, let's go and

That definitely. I'm so grateful that you were least willing to go along. Well, and so those of you who might be new to us or might not know this about us, Rachel's very much the logistics and the planner. the home body. Yeah, introverted home body, like wants things comfortable and luxurious. control. Yeah, wants control.

plan. Have the whole environment like let's not have any chaos or uncertainty here, no spontaneity. And I was the opposite. Right. I was the storm and inpetuosity and no let's just go have an adventure. that seems great let's go. Yeah. And luckily you came along probably because I was such a force of nature and you didn't want to.

Rachel Denning (07:31.674)
And I was in love and I, you know, just was, it was exciting. I feel like it was. It was very exciting. And it led to a genuinely epic life. totally it did. And I feel like I had a lot of trust in you of like, okay, like you never seemed hesitant about it. You're just like, we'll figure it out. And I believed that. And we did. We did. I guess, let me pause. That's why I wouldn't recommend it. This wouldn't be an episode of like, hey guys, you should just go for it and figure it out later. I don't think I would recommend that.

Right. To anyone. Because here's why. I knew what I was either A, capable of, or B, capable of becoming. I knew myself and I knew that I was willing to put in all the work to figure it out. Like if we get down there and it's a tough situation, I know I have what it takes to get us out of it. Right. Not everybody does that. That's why I can never give that advice, that recommendation, hey, just go for it because I don't know what you're made of. Right.

I don't know what kind of metal, M-E-T-T-L-E, I don't know what kind of metal is inside of you. don't know what you've got. You might get down there and throw in the towel and they're like, man, now you're toast. And in reality, that, because yes, we took that sort of path where it was just very impetuous and we just went for it, but it worked out because you were willing to do that. And so when the challenges came, which they did,

trust me, they came, you just did whatever you had to to make it work. Whether that was literally carrying three children at a time out of a canyon, because that happened, you know, we went on this five mile hike, it got dark, we had three children you were carrying, I was carrying the baby. Like you just did what, you just muscled through whatever had to be done and did it with a smile so that it worked out. Which I think,

in this whole formula, that was a key piece because if on the other hand we got to situations like that and you're done and I'm done and the kids are done and we're all just like then it's miserable. We hate it and we're like we're never doing that again. But instead we learn to love adventure because you made it fun and exciting even at the hardest and worst parts. Even when we all just wanted to give up and cry, you helped us get through.

Rachel Denning (10:00.12)
And that just like nurtured the desire for more adventure because, actually that was fun. It was good. It was hard. It was so hard. But that's also what made it fun. So that plays a huge role. you're right. You can't just recommend that to everyone because if someone doesn't have that capability, yeah, it's not going to work. Someone has to be able to have that metal to carry everyone through when you get to the second part.

Yep. Because it's gonna happen. And I guess because at my core, somewhere along this path of from going from utter fear and incompetence and insecurity, I don't know exactly where it happened, but somewhere in that journey, I just, I adopted this ancient belief of I'll either find a way or I'll make one. Like the stoicism. Yeah. I will either find a way or I will make one. Yeah.

And I live by that principle. And so when I say, hey, let's go down this road, I have committed to whatever's down there. don't know. We have no idea what we're facing. Whatever's down that road, I'll either find a way or I'll make one. And that's why we've been able to do so many things. Exactly. So going back on the beach there, I couldn't remember a time when we faced something that felt overwhelming. OK, wait. Everything, we're going to get into this. Everything we have faced.

has felt overwhelming. Every big decision will. Every big decision, every big dream, every big trip we've planned, it's always felt overwhelming at the beginning. But I can't remember anything in the last 10 or 15 years that we faced that was overwhelming, that because it was overwhelming, we decided not to do it. That has not happened. Yeah, that's never been.

Which I want to... In my framework. Yeah. Which I want to talk through that because I think that's important and in my mind a key emphasis of this episode. But while I was talking and introducing this episode, I did remember one experience early on and I think that this did happen early on in our marriage. And you might think that this is a weird example, but it's the one that came to my mind. So...

Rachel Denning (12:14.458)
I'm gonna share it. I'm so intrigued. I have no idea what you're gonna adopted, and again, whatever, people know we're weird. We adopted our first child. And somewhere along the line, I had read that even if you had not given birth, it was possible to induce milk to breastfeed adopted babies. Okay, so of course right away people are like, whoa, that's weird. I'd never been pregnant before.

But I wanted to try it. I wanted to try to breastfeed my adopted baby. And so I tried to induce milk. There was like herbs you could take. There was like nipple stimulation. You know, this is getting weird, I know. But like this is a whole thing. But when we adopt, there was even a kit I bought. Like you could put milk in a thing and then you would like have this little tube that attached to your nipple. Like this is a whole thing. It's a whole industry.

I remember trying it when we got her and it was just, first of all, if you've breastfed, you know it's hard. Anyways, breastfeeding's hard. Breastfeeding without milk, that's hard. Okay, it was way harder than I had even anticipated. Especially first time. Especially as a first time mom, right? So I do remember that like, I don't know, it was a week, excuse me, a week or two after we had got her. And I was just like, this is too hard.

I'm not doing this. I can't do this, right? I remember that feeling. So that was the feeling that came up right now when I was introducing this topic, because otherwise I really don't remember things that we've decided to undertake that we backed away from doing because it was just too hard. Now I do want to clarify in this though. There are things we have decided not to do because we believed, excuse me, we believed...

the amount of effort and work required to do it was not worth it for us for that thing, if that makes sense. I think this is important because that's different though. It's revealing basically all we're ever doing here is like sharing what's what has worked for us. And what this example is illustrating is one aspect of how we make decisions. Like we don't back away because it's overwhelming.

Rachel Denning (14:36.27)
We'll totally back away if we feel like the exchange rate is what we call the exchange rate is too much. Like if it's going to sacrifice too much of our health or our family or happiness, we're out. If we feel like, it's going to take this much work and the rewards are going to be this small, like, that sucks. Tons of work for a small reward. Nah, we're out. But I can't think of anything either where we ever thought, if it's too overwhelming, we won't do it.

That's just not how we play. And I think because of what we explained before that we began pursuing an unconventional lifestyle with this ready, fire, aim approach, that actually was helpful in a lot of ways because it gave us a lot of experience. We really went out there and we, like, you know, one of the success principles, I think, in Jack Canfield's success principles is like, in order to succeed, you have to fail more.

And we did a lot of failing in those early years just by doing that, like jumping out of a plane. Not literally, but figuratively, we're just trying all of these things. We're just going for it with very little plan, very little.

thinking ahead almost, which yeah, seems impetuous and stupid and not wise. And I think all of that's true, but because of the mindset we had, because of our situation in life, we just did it anyways, and that gave us so much life experience. Like tons and tons and tons of life experience. And because we had all that life experience, we learned that anything that you pursue that's worth doing is going to be one.

way harder than you imagined it would be. In fact, some people say it'll be 10 times harder than you imagined. It'll take 10 times as long, which essentially those two things are the definition of overwhelm. When you get into pursuing the thing you want, that you imagine this dream. In fact, I was just telling my son this other day. like, a lot of people don't realize that when you start pursuing your dream life, what you're actually doing is signing up for solving problems.

Rachel Denning (16:48.844)
That's actually what a dream life is. Solving problems, learning how to think and make decisions and overcome and handle things step by step by step. That's the only way to actually achieve your dream life. But for so many people, that just looks like and feels like overwhelm. Right. And for many people, just to hear that, they're like, I'm out. Right. I'm out. Wait, hold up. You're telling me a dream life is just bigger problems? Like, And more work? I'm out. Yeah. As though.

Again, it's ironic and naive but as though like if I don't pursue my dreams, I won't have any problems. You're going to have problems. So you're like, well, if I chase my goals and my targets, I'm gonna have problems. So I'm not going to and so you stay home and have problems. Yeah. Well, either way you have problems. Either way you have challenges. So why not live an awesome life? I don't get this. I truly don't.

I cannot wrap my head around it. Why would anyone choose to live a boring life? I can't. And I've heard people talk about it, but still, like, don't get it. If an awesome experience is available, why would you choose a boring one? If a great life is an option for you, why would you settle for a lame existence? A humdrum, mediocre,

Rachel Denning (18:17.603)
Boring. It's ennui, right? It's like, bleh. No stimulation, no excitement, no challenge. Just empty. Flat line. And while you say you don't understand it, on a psychological level, we do understand it because we know it's fear and essentially overwhelm that's holding people back. That is what's getting in the way. They don't want to be uncomfortable. They don't want change. They want what's familiar. This is what's always been done.

They're kind of living unconsciously. So again, I know why it's happening, but I'm like, I still don't get like why anyone would actually choose that. If you're aware, like, hey, this is possible. And yeah, it's going to require some more work. I never in my mind would be like, okay, I'm out. Right. What? No, man. And, you know, I mean, essentially it is the...

It's facing those fears and breaking down the overwhelm into bite-sized pieces. Rather, it's a lack of doing those things. That's causing the main problem. That's causing the... Failure of pursuit. Exactly. Okay, yes, exactly. It's causing them to fail to pursue those things that they want because ultimately people do want those things. Right. Because that's the irony. want that. They'll sit and complain about...

their circumstances. they'll tell you just all the time. I talk to people every day all day and people are I hate my life. I'm like well. Well or I hate this part of my life. yeah that's more of. Not like they hate More likely it's not that they hate their life it's that they hate their circumstances or they're like well I don't like this and I don't like that. I'm like okay well here's what you do to change it. Well didn't one of your coaching clients just the other day say you're just literally making my life harder Greg. Right and well they all say that to me all the time.

And because it looks like it looks initially more demanding. And this is I explained to him. like, hey man. And this is I explained to all my clients. Like this isn't new. He's not the first one who's like, this is hard. Like they all, they're like, And we were there too. It looks like a lot of work. And some of it is, but the simplicity is on the far side of the complexity. The ease.

Rachel Denning (20:40.32)
is on the other side of difficulty. It's like setting up the system and putting it in place, then on the other side it's like, wow, it's actually easier. And better. Way better. And happier and more fun and all of the things you want. Yeah, exactly. I'm baffled. I'm like, why? Why would anyone not want to be happy, healthy, and wealthy? But I do get it because.

I am remembering, especially when we embarked on our initial journeys, like it was terrifying. And I think in one of our previous podcasts, we talked about this thing that happens in your brain when you have a certain number of neural connections and understanding. Essentially, it's a form of wisdom is what it is, that you're able to begin to recognize patterns. And we had talked about how one of the patterns

of pursuing your dreams is that you're going to face these obstacles that feel insurmountable, right? Now the benefit we have and the thing that we're talking about in this podcast is we have learned through experience that that's simply the price tag. The price tag of the dream you want and the life you want to live are all of those obstacles you have to go through because those are the obstacles that will transform you as a person into the person who can have that dream life.

That's the pattern. Now it's difficult to see that though, especially if it's like your first time, especially if you've never had that experience. And so essentially, you know, when she was asking me this question on the beach, I'm like, yes, there I'm sure there have been times, just like my silly breastfeeding example, when we came up across something and we were like, this is way harder than I thought it would be. But we have learned, and it started by us being impetuous, to not.

away from that because it's overwhelming but to see like this is the pathway this is the way to actually achieving the thing that we want and so now in a way not always literally but I figuratively when we see those obstacles and that overwhelm we're like whoo-hoo yes that means this is the right path that means this is the way to achieving everything it is we want even though it's still not fun per se

Rachel Denning (23:06.318)
I gotta share another pattern that I remembered. And I think this is really important. We also, when we started chasing our dreams like that, and we were facing our fears, because there was a lot of fears. yeah. I often remember getting on the other side and being like, that wasn't near as scary as we thought it was going to be. In fact, I remember that my fear of the thing was way worse than the thing itself. Yes. And that happened to us so many times, simply because we were trying so many things. It seemed scary. Then we did it, and we're like,

wasn't very scary. We do it again. that seems scary. Then we did it. It's like, it wasn't that scary. And whether it was facing the unknown or making changes or the fear of failure. in New Mexico for the first time. All these are like, there's a threat here. That could happen. This could happen. And you get in there and some things happen. You're like, okay that was rough. It wasn't near as scary or bad as we thought. So that was a pattern I think that got cemented in my psyche. So I started

I started processing differently. I'm like, I'm feeling nervous or afraid. I'm like, wait a minute, but, over and over and over and over and over again, endlessly, I was afraid of something and it didn't turn out to be that scary. So why am I allowing fear to dictate my decisions? And I want to drive that home right now because in my observations and interactions with people, and this is a bold statement, but I, I believe it. The majority of people are operating.

through fear. They're basing so many of their decisions and their actions on fear. And these are some of them are very big, but most of them are quite small. This is these little kind of micro fears that create these micro actions or reactions. And so they stay very limited. And if you could if you could visualize a person

that's had a hundred experiences contrasted to a person that's had 10,000 experiences. That is a vastly different human being. And they could literally be neighbors.

Rachel Denning (25:18.81)
And the one is like thinking like, yeah, we're pretty much the same. Me and my neighbor, we're the same. But the neighbor with 10,000 experience is like, no, we're not the same. We might as well live on different planets, Because when you have thousands and thousands and thousands of experiences, you can't not be developed. Right.

You get the growth and the expansion and you can't go back to your former dimensions. And so you understand Mentally, emotionally, physically. Socially, financially, all of spiritually, all of it. So you you get things now because you touched it, tasted it, felt it like you perceive things in a way that that other people can't. If they haven't experienced it, you can't. Right. You could watch all the cool documentaries online and all those great things. But unless you personally

I've experienced the physiological effect. And go on a safari for example. You're personally there on a safari and there's a lion right there next to your truck. Totally different than the nature show. Right. Even though the nature shows. It's awesome. It's great but being there is different and I guess that's my point. Well. So then we don't have the experiences mostly because of fear or overwhelm or worry.

whatever it is. And so then we stay small. And so I wish there was some way, it doesn't exist that I know of, I wish there was a way just to see, I think I can perceive it now because I work with people so much. But you could see like if there was like some imaginary number over our heads, like this little halo of how many experiences you've had.

Sounds like a dystopian novel. Yeah, it sounds weird and then we'd be like, then we'd just be judging people. Yeah. It'd go really bad. So I'm glad it doesn't exist. But just as a way of illustration for the principle, you could see how.

Rachel Denning (27:24.8)
developed or underdeveloped the person is. No wonder you do that thing because you've either had or not had that many experiences. Exactly. You meet some people and you're like, yeah, no wonder. Like you've had so many experiences. Like that's why our conversations are so engaging and so filling. We can talk about so many things. It's so interesting. Wow. Then you meet another person and you're like, okay.

I understand a little bit. You've literally done almost nothing. You've never been anywhere. You've never tried new things. You've barely read anything. You haven't had conversations with people who disagree with you. You haven't pushed against your boundaries. Really, that's the comfort zone. Well, and so, yeah, mean, in this whole theme that we're going on, one of the reasons people are not

able to or actively pursuing this dream life they want, whether they realize it's a dream life or not, but essentially pursuing what it is they want in life, is because...

They are pushing up against those fears. And the default for most people, including for us when we started out, is to back away from those fears. And they the boundaries in place. Yeah, exactly. Our default is to, my gosh, that's scary. I'm just going to retreat. But what we have learned,

firsthand again and again and again that that is literally the thing that ends up keeping you small. It ends up keeping you underdeveloped. And the only way to actually become the person you want to be is to push through those boundaries. You have to. When you face that boundary, when you have that opportunity, because really I now I see that as an opportunity. And this comes back to answering the question from my friend.

Rachel Denning (29:25.272)
Like now we have learned that when our family faces those boundaries and it's happened, I've visibly seen it happen, where we all start getting a little nervous and we're like, and there's emotions coming up and we're feeling things. Maybe there's some tears, like it's happened. I'm like, okay, here we are. This is the edge. This is the edge of the comfort zone. What we do here and now matters so much. Cause we directly and deliberately face the fear.

So you and I have learned to take that role of like, okay, yeah.

legit, there's fear here, there's overwhelm, there's this. Let us break this down and figure out how we can move forward step by step by doing the one little thing that we know we can do to move forward rather than, my gosh, we're scared, let's go back to the comfort zone. That is the pattern that we have, I mean, we live by that now. Like everything we do is essentially following that pattern. And that's the thing that has made

all the difference. Yes. Like everything we have in our life, everything we have pursued, everything we've become, everything we have achieved is because we follow that pattern. When we reach that discomfort, we know that that's the edge and that is where we break through to the other side by facing the fear and moving through rather than retreating from it. And so when we see the barrier,

When we see the limiting factor, instead of pulling back, like you want the brain, the survival brain, step back, like go. And so you feel it. You're like, wait a minute. Do I act? Is there something genuinely, truly scary here? Because fear isn't always a bad thing. It's to keep us alive and keep us safe. a lot of our fears are bogus. Yeah. Like our fears aren't facts.

Rachel Denning (31:18.746)
And so you stop and say, there something truly, truly scary here? And your survival brain's like, yes, of course. I'm going to Run through your life. We're all going to die. You're like, wait a minute. Stop. Just calm down for a second. Is there something truly scary? And you look at it well, have other people do it, done it, right? Are they doing it? That's where you stop. Say, okay, well, this seems scary. Are other people doing it? You're like, well, bro, there's a lot of people doing it. okay, let's look at the results. Yeah.

Wow. Okay, so this must be my imagination making this scarier than it actually is. So in some ways, I guess visually, just to walk through this, you and I will walk up to the barrier and start looking around like, okay, it feels scary. It feels like it feels uncomfortable. Let's look around. Let's peek over the barrier. Well, in a lot of ways, there's analogies to cliff jumping. Like our son and their friends have been doing a lot of cliff jumping lately. And every time...

They describe that. There's always that fear of standing at the edge and, you know, I mean, it's terrifying and it's natural for our bodies to say, danger, this is dangerous because there is potential danger there. But the thrill of then actually jumping over the edge and landing in the water and, you know, they just, they love it. They absolutely love it. I think that that's a perfect analogy. Because it's a perfect analogy for this border between the comfort zone and the unknown.

because it's a very similar thing physiologically for us to face that unknown, to look over the edge, to be afraid of what's over there, to feel like it is dangerous because yeah, there's potential danger. But then the thrill of pushing through, of taking that leap, that's where the power lies. And if we refuse to go through that process, we literally can't grow. We cannot grow, we cannot develop, we cannot become a more fully

enlightened person, you know, like there's so many levels there mentally, emotionally, physiologically, spiritually that are happening that are contributing to the development of the person that it's just it's such a valuable experience that that is now what we seek out. And in fact, whenever I see my kids afraid or

Rachel Denning (33:44.76)
nervous or whatever. Like I love to now help them process that and we will. We'll talk through it. We'll address all of their fears. We'll let them bring it up. If there's tears. Well in fact, okay, I think I want to share this story because you guys, if you listen to our episode about Mongolia when we did our Mongolia trip in July, then you know that our 10 year old fell off a horse at a full gallop. You actually rode up next to her.

was at a full gallop, saw her bounce off, tried to grab her, got a hold of her jacket, but of course she was too heavy to hold with one arm and so she got dragged around on the ground for a little bit and then you fell off, I don't know, on top of her but somehow rolled around together and then you picked her up and held her in your arms. I mean it was a it was a challenging fall. Like it was not just like a little drop onto the ground. It was a real deal. Now amazingly she didn't get hurt.

In fact, she didn't even have any scratches on her face, which was incredible. She got back up, she got right back on her horse, and she walked back to camp. And it was amazing. But the thing that happened after was the most important part. And that was she cried. She was afraid. She was scared. And we spent a good, I would say, 45 minutes to an hour, me and her, in the tent with her crying and talking through all of the

the trauma, quote unquote, it happening. And what happened and what might have happened and what she didn't like and what she was afraid of in the future happening and like we addressed all of it. And I think that that is a super, super valuable process to helping you or your child be able to move through things that happened to them so that then in the future, like they don't have that.

fear anymore. In fact, it came up today and it was funny to me that she almost forgot that she had fallen off a horse. Like she was talking about her time in Mongolia and how much she loved it and all of this. I'm like, yeah, I remember you fell off the horse. She's like, yeah, I did. It's not... of her associations with horses are positive. It was all positive despite the fact that that was a very traumatic experience because it wasn't just a simple teeny little fall. was kind of a big deal and it could have been really bad. Right.

Rachel Denning (36:09.434)
Processing all of those emotions is what helps her move through it. So now she doesn't live in fear but can have the confidence to continue to do hard things and scary things and try new things. This is such an important principle because most of us, we want to desperately cling to our fears. Yeah. We want to hold on to them. I see this a lot when I'm...

when we're inviting people to try new things and make changes and attempt things, go out and have a new experience. Which is essentially our whole life in business. Our whole life in business. And we're like, hey, we'll try this. It's exposure to something new and uncomfortable. And it's so fascinating to be an observer in that process because the survival brain kicks in and people will cling and claw desperately to hang on to their fear or their conviction of...

I guess it makes them feel safe or comfortable. Again, it's a lie. We want security. And so we hold onto it. But it's interesting watching how much they'll fight to remain even when there's so little actual threat. And it makes people uncomfortable sometimes to be around us. It definitely does.

But I want to say that I feel that it's understandable because that is how the human body works. And mean, if you think about our history as human beings, there's value in holding on to some of those experiences because then that's how we learn. Because then we can teach our children or our grandchildren or the neighbor, like, hey, watch out for that cliff over there or that cave because it has a lion. We're able to pass on information that's valuable. But I think especially in our day to day when

our threats are almost not real threats. You know I'm saying? Like a lot of times we're scared of simple things. afraid of getting a negative comment on social media. Well yeah, there's things like Seriously, that's a real thing. But, okay, another fascinating aspect too, because I was thinking about this on our Mongolia trip, where it was a trip that was a real life adventure. Like there was, there was a real danger. In fact, we had multiple people fall off their horses. You fell off.

Rachel Denning (38:30.682)
twice at least. It was a real danger. Now, there's a time and place, and in fact, it still exists in the world. The Mongolians, they're used to that. They live in this world. In fact, they would laugh at you guys when you fell off the horse because they're just like, yeah, this is a normal part of our life. We fall off the horses. But our society is so comfortable and easy now, and we literally have so little experience in... Everything's overprotected. Yeah. Doing real...

dangerous adventurous activities that it's for some people it becomes very traumatic when anything happens to them that's Not safe and comfortable right so it doesn't matter what it is something can happen and because of our instinctual Brain we're like my gosh, you know don't do that again because it's dangerous and so I understand how and why it becomes a stumbling block for people and how

prevents them from doing other things. But I guess what we're trying to talk about in this episode is that we have to gain awareness of those things and say, okay, yeah, that happened. That happened to me and I didn't like it and it was painful and maybe I have an injury from it or maybe whatever, this thing happened. But if we allow that to then now define our future. Yes, or define us. Or to define us, that's where we now limit ourselves.

And we may think like, well, it's not connected. Like, you know, if I never do that thing again, it doesn't matter. But I that we have learned. man. Yeah. I think we've learned through experience that everything's connected. And if you have one area of your life where you're afraid to face it, you're afraid to embrace the challenge, it really does end up limiting you in.

multiple areas of your life. Absolutely. I guess here's a simple but real example for a lot of people. It's like say you had a negative experience with a dog when you were a kid. Maybe you got bit by a dog. And so then you embrace this fear like dogs are dangerous. So then you grow up, you get, know, twice or three times your size when it happened. But you still have this old programming of dogs are dangerous. And so you're afraid of dogs. And

Rachel Denning (40:50.562)
And you might be arguing like, yeah, I can go my whole life and be afraid of dogs. Like I'm not going to be an underdeveloped person. I can still live a great life and be afraid of dogs and whatever. Maybe, but I guess I'd like to point out here is like by, choosing to face that one and working through that one, it's going to unlock a lot of other potentials. It's going to every improvement we make in one area has a positive effect in another area. So if I start with this one, and that's a simple example of like, wait a minute.

I'm much bigger now and are all dogs dangerous? Well, no, of course not. Are some dogs dangerous? Sure. But can I do something about that? Yeah, of course I can. You know, I'm a capable adult now. I'm bigger and I understand dogs. I can start facing that. I can start approaching dogs. I can start petting dogs. I can rewrite the programming in my head. doing that process is perfect because now you have a framework to do it with all these other things.

I suspect that we as human beings are walking around with many, many, many examples of like that in our heads, in our psyche. All these fears, all this old programming and we just need to go through and rewrite them, update them, upgrade them again and again and again and again because too many good people are just living behind their fears. Right. Well, and as you were talking about that, was fascinating because in my mind I could see this process occurring of when

you decide to face that fear and then you have to go through the process of bit by bit unlocking and figuring out how to move past it, there's all of these nuances of things that occur. One of which would be learning how to tell the difference between a legit dangerous dog and just a friendly dog. And when you have I'm afraid of dogs as the automatic approach to things, it's actually like,

part of your brain shuts off and you're not able to tell the difference between a friendly dog and a mean dog. And not even willing to think about it. And not even willing to think about it or face it. And that is an analogy of things that are happening in other areas of your life. Because I've experienced this myself. That once you then go through that process, now like you said, you now have a new framework of being able to approach other parts of your life in a similar way. like, well wait, maybe even with my spouse here, I'm putting up this thing of like,

Rachel Denning (43:17.282)
my spouse is this way all the time, rather than learning to see the nuances of how they're interacting and how we can interact in a better way simply because I've learned a new skill of facing a fear and moving through it and gaining new tools for being able to face something I used to be afraid of. In my mind right now, I'm just processing hundreds of examples of this.

from our own lives and from all the people we'll be able to work with. is it just coming up again and again, all these little fears, all these little limiting beliefs, all these little fixed mindsets that you're right. It becomes, that's right there. There's the limit. There's the boundary of anything from, well, kids are this way, toddlers are this way, teens are this way, marriages like this, religions like this, motorcycles are that, Mexicans are this way, Muslims are that way. Like whatever, you can just go through all these things and.

And again, I want to really emphasize this. those of you who are listening and every one of us, we have hundreds, if not thousands of these little limiters, these little boundaries, and we need to start working through each of them. And the more we work through them, the better we get at it and the faster we start eliminating them. And I know because I've experienced myself and I've helped others.

some of them when you eliminate it, you eliminate one and it automatically dissolves for a domino effect. Yeah it just takes them out. So you're like let's get rid of this one and bam immediately when that's gone five to ten others are immediately gone as well. you're like now I have so much freedom in my life and I can try all these new things. I'm actually enjoying an experience that I used to hate. Besides the fact that you actually and this is real metaphysically

you free up energy that was previously stuck to now focus on different things. So you have all of this because it takes energy to be afraid and to resist something that requires energy. We think, we don't really think that that's a thing. It's automatic and we're just doing it, but it really is requiring, it's using mental, emotional, physical energy to resist and to be afraid. And when you...

Rachel Denning (45:34.454)
overcome that you now can take all of that energy to use towards mastery of whatever it was you're afraid of. Directing your life in the right direction. Besides the fact that because we're talking about that know being afraid of dogs and that seems like a silly thing and you could go your whole life without being afraid of while still being afraid of dogs but if you have that your entire life and you never face that fear and learn how to push through it

you miss out on gaining the skill of how to overcome your fears, which is one of the most valuable things you can ever learn. If you can't learn how to face and overcome your fears, you will live a limited life. Big time. It's just that simple. And so will your kids, because they will follow your lead. You have to face those fears, and you have to move through them, if for nothing else, to gain the skill of being able to do it. Exactly.

And so for us at this point in our life, anytime we do face those fears, okay, most of the time when we do face those fears, we push through them. We move ahead because we've learned to recognize this pattern, to know that this is the key. This is the way. This is the way to becoming the person I want to become. To achieving all of the things I want to achieve.

Facing the fears and pushing through is how I get there. Facing overwhelm and then breaking it down step by step and moving through it is how I get to the other side of my comfort zone or discomfort zone to achieving and having everything I want. Yes. I think it's worth adding to this so that we understand the...

Because you might be like, you guys are making a big deal out of these little things. I can go my whole life and it's not a big deal. But I think there's unexpected collateral consequences for simple things. let's do the fear of a dog or the fear of water, the fear of fire, the fear of motorcycles. Whatever it is, pick your fear and your little thing and you think, I don't need to fix that. I don't need to face that. It's not a big deal. It's not going to limit my life.

Rachel Denning (47:55.546)
Because of all of our experiences, I can already think of examples where a fear of dogs could keep you from meeting somebody. Or traveling. Really awesome. Or going to a certain place because there's dogs there. Or water. And if some fear of water or fire or motorcycles or whatever, you just pick your thing, a fear of flying, of airplanes, of trains, or whatever. come up with these things and we just put that limit there and we say, no, I can do all these other things and I don't have to face that one.

But what you're automatically doing is just closing off these.

sections of life and opportunity. you're closing the door on this, this, this opening that goes to all these opportunities across the globe. is a portal. Yes, it is. And you're closing that. Yeah. And you're saying it's not that big of a deal. Like, I don't, I don't have, it's like a whole universe of experience over there. You're saying I don't ever have to get on a motorcycle or whatever. And you're like, yeah, but there's going to be

portals, right? To all kinds of things and we want to open up the portals. Well and and to bring this back to I think something pragmatic for me I've learned because you're right yeah there's probably there could be lots and lots of things you're afraid of and it may never even be relevant or important for you to face every single one of those but if you keep bumping up against something like that

You know, you're invited to go somewhere, but I'd have to fly and I don't want to do that. Or you're invited to go do something, but no, I don't do that thing. Even if you're not invited, the passing thought of like, we should go there and you go, no, we shouldn't. No, it's scary, right? I think for me, those are more of the clues. The indicators. Or the indicators. That is the specific thing for you that you need to address. And for me, that shows a...

Rachel Denning (49:55.426)
in lots of ways. It shows up as opportunity, right? If I have the opportunity for something and then I don't take advantage of it specifically because of fear, that's like, okay, I'm literally limiting my life and my portals by not facing this specific fear, especially because it's right here in my face. Here's what's concerning to me because I've seen it so many times.

is all of that is happening subconsciously or unconsciously. Yes, it's true. And we get to see it a lot because we're leading trips, having adventures. I'm just, we're observing people all the time. We're coaching people. And so we're rolling along and opportunity pops up. We're like, let's do that. And somebody's like, no, let's not. And that's, it's unconscious. No, we're not going to do that. And I was like, well, okay, wait a minute. Let's talk through this why. No, no, no, let's not. I'm like, hold on. Just take a couple of breaths.

You know, bring back your prefrontal cortex. What's wrong?

Yeah, I just don't want to. Why? Just it's okay. Talk me through this. Okay. I'm afraid. What are you afraid of? this thing. interesting. Why are you afraid of that? When I was a kid, this, okay, there it is. But all of that was subconscious or unconscious. I see it all the time. So even those of you listening, you might be listening podcasts and say, yeah, that's great. Dennings, we're going to do that. That's fantastic. But first.

you have to have very heightened awareness of what's going on. You're literally choosing not to do things or choosing to do something else. And if you stop and really think through why you're choosing something else, it's because you're afraid of the thing you really want. But it's all happening so quickly and so subconsciously unless somebody's there to say, hey, wait, why not? Well, and I think that that is a key because I know we've talked.

Rachel Denning (51:53.748)
I've mentioned in passing about being able to break it down into step-by-step actions. That's a key part of this because when you can bring, when you can vocalize what it is exactly that you're feeling and what it is that you're afraid of, when you can name that thing, there's a lot of power there because now I've even noticed for myself that sometimes just naming it all of sudden is like, yeah, that's silly. Why am I afraid of that? That's not really that big of a deal.

And then you realize, OK, you know what? If I do this small little action, this big huge thing is not going to happen. We tend to catastrophize. And you're like, OK, I'm going to take that small action. I can do that one little thing. And we might think that, well, that's not a big deal because I'm really afraid of x, y, Well, as long as you can take one step in the right direction, you're on the right path.

That is a part of facing the fear and breaking down the overwhelm is just by moving in the right direction instead of like we talked about moving away from it. It's the moving away. That's where the danger lies. The more we move away. The worse off will be in the long run. We have to move toward what we're afraid of rather than moving away. Especially because we've seen this and maybe those of you listening experienced it when you step back your your limiters they follow you.

Yeah. And they start to enclose you. Yeah. And you become more afraid and more enclosed and more isolated. Yeah. We know people or know of people who have done that continually again and again to a point where now leaving their house. It's scary. It's scary. They're afraid to go out because in fact I noticed this with myself actually and I think particularly around COVID or something like

I was used to grocery delivery, Amazon delivery, like I was in my house all the time. We travel the world, right? But in some ways that's very different than just living your normal life. And I remember actually like going out to the store and being like, interacting with these people. This is so terrifying. It's silly, but you know, like that's the natural state. If you refuse to engage with the world,

Rachel Denning (54:15.682)
keep retreating and all the things in front of you then your world just gets smaller and smaller and so more and more and more things become terrifying but the more you engage with the world the less terrifying it becomes now some of you are listening to this and and hearing our examples really but I've legit have had conversations with good successful people who were afraid of the ocean

or we're afraid of mountains or afraid of rainforests or rivers or whatever like and they're there and maybe it's talking to new people or maybe it's talking to strange people maybe it's a fear of failure or maybe it's a fear of looking like a failure and the key is so those of you listening I want you to really embrace this

Really take this to heart. And some of you might be thinking, doesn't affect me that much or whatever. Like, come hang out with us. I tell people when they come to spend time with us, I'm like, hey, we'll have a good time. But fair warning, it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable to spend time with our family. Because you'll simultaneously see that we're super chill.

but we're also super intense. And when we go out to play, like we play hard and we go to work, we work hard and like we're squeezing the juice out of life. And for most people, like, man, that's a bit much. That's a lot. And people frequently like, you the first couple of days, like, yeah, this is amazing. And then they slip back into their old ways quickly and easily because like it's...

It's a lot. I want you to. I want you to come on our trips and adventures. I want you to come stay with us and do this. And I'm only saying this as an illustration, as an example. And it could be with us. It could be with somebody else. But if you spend time, a good chunk of time with somebody,

Rachel Denning (56:33.412)
who's consistently doing things that bump up against your limiting factors. And the same is true for me and you. Like if we go spend time with somebody else who's consistently doing something that bumps up against our fears or worries or limitations, there's that friction, that bumping. And it's like, man, it's getting uncomfortable around here. And you might hang for a couple of days, but then afterwards it's like, yeah. Like you either have to face it and overcome it.

Or I'm going to retreat. And I guess my invitation to all of you listening is face them. Face them all. Put yourself in situations where you're going to feel it. And I know a bunch of you listening are coming to stay with us. We open up the World School Family Resort. We have a steady flow of families coming for the next six, eight months. And so a lot of you are coming to stay. And when you get here, we're going have a blast.

But I promise you can't not bump up against those fears and those limits, the barriers. We have to. And that's just the way you and I do life now. We're consistently searching out and bumping up against our own barriers. We're doing it with our children. But then when the people around us, it's almost unintentional, but it's just how we live. like, we're going try this. And they're like, no.

Why? Like, no, we're going to eat this way. We're going to do these things. We're going to try this stuff. And that's the point. An expanded life is a great life where a constricted limited life is is weak. let me share this one last thought. like it just came to my mind. I think it was Socrates that said the unexamined life isn't worth living.

this was at least part I think of what he was getting at is like if you don't examine your limitations, your fears, your worries, the things that are holding you back, then you're not gonna live very much. Right. You're gonna be alive, but you're not living. Well in essence that's exposure therapy which is I want to talk about that in second but I also remembered my son was he's 19 and he was telling me his bio

Rachel Denning (58:53.434)
Instagram has a quote that says the bold may not live forever but the courageous or the the bold may not live forever but the timid do not live at all something like that I don't think that's the exact word but something about timidity or whatever you know and that's kind of the idea of like yeah maybe there's more risks involved but

you're not really living if you're not trying. you're not doing things and taking on risks, that's not really living. That's just not dying like this in the crudes, right? But I wanted to talk about exposure therapy for a minute because that, you know, if you study psychology, that's one of the basic tenets that if you have a fear of something, if you have a phobia or you feel even a lack of competence,

The key to overcoming that is through exposure therapy, which essentially means you just expose yourself to the thing you're afraid of. That is how you overcome. Now this is true even with serious trauma. know, serious, you know, because we're talking about all of these things and some of them seem trivial. But we know, we're fully aware that there's real trauma that exists. You know, there's sexual abuse, there's rape, there's...

There's horrendous things going on. I guess what I want to emphasize is that this is used in clinical psychology. It's not just something we're making up. This is a real technique to help you even with those difficult challenges. There is a way to safely expose yourself to the thing that you're afraid of so that you can gain the competence and the confidence to know that you can face that and to be able to handle it.

That right there is real power. And that's, in essence, the emphasis we're trying to make, that real power, really the power to live the life of your dreams, comes by gaining competence and confidence, which comes from facing and overcoming your fears. Or at least moving through your fears, even if you never overcome them, per se. And visually, we can see all this on a spectrum, right? And we have so much.

Rachel Denning (01:01:17.878)
empathy and sensitivity to somebody who's experienced something extremely traumatic. Many of you have probably experienced something that I just don't understand because I've not been through it myself and so I'm super sensitive to that and understand that and there's a process there of healing. Then on the other end of the spectrum I kind of want to rant here a little bit and drop the hammer. Like many of us is

full-grown men and women are walking around with these like pathetic little fears and worries and concerns. We have these little limiters in place that are absurd and this actually is one of my favorite things about coaching when I'm coaching people.

is we get it examine expose these things you kind of bring them out to light. I just say metaphorically we're just we're setting it on the table or figuratively like what was that wait well you just said that passing what do you say and like I didn't even know like no no hold up you just said what and we we set it on the table like did you literally just say that you you're afraid of that and when you say it out loud and you set it on the table so to speak they're like yeah that's

OK, now like saying it out loud, looking at it looks ridiculous. Like, yeah, it is ridiculous. And I guess I want to say that with love, but also with some frankness. We've got a bunch of wonderful human beings that are living these super limited lives because of a bunch of. The Spanish word just came to my mind, don't there is this is like just a bunch of dumb little things, dumb things, right? And it's true.

And it's not that I'm like judging. It's that I've worked with so many clients that when they say it out loud, they're like, that's really dumb. That's really silly. It's really, it's kind of pathetic. Like why, why am I still letting that be a factor in my life? And, so right now, I, to those of you listening, I want to give that invitation like,

Rachel Denning (01:03:32.502)
Examine all those things. Look at them. Say them out loud. Set them on the table, so to speak, and be like, well, that's lame. That's super lame. Why am I letting my life be limited and restricted because of all these little dumb things? I'm done. I'm going to be a grown man here, a grown woman, and stop being childish about what some random person at the store might think of you.

If you do something or or if we bring those things out on the table and they are a big deal because there are going to be some of those Excuse me Then we go through this process. we go through this process of walking through You know, what are we catastrophizing here? What are we thinking is the worst-case scenario that's gonna happen and and and convince ourselves That we're right or that we're wrong and and kind of

Dispel that fear by by speaking about it and talking through it so that we can really bring clarity to what it is That we're afraid of rather than because it's interesting. There's this another theory in psychology that's

essentially floating anxiety. Free floating anxiety. it's basically where we have this fear or anxiety about something that's not really attached to something. And in a case like this, like if you're being chased by a lion, that's not free floating anxiety. You really have a reason to be afraid. And that's a real threat. And that is a real threat. That is a real cause for fear. But if you're standing there completely safe and you're thinking about being chased by

lion and you're afraid that's more it's not exactly but that's more an idea of free-floating anxiety because there's no lion around there's no threat there's no like there's no real concrete threat that is threatening you right now so when there was a squirrel

Rachel Denning (01:05:39.627)
Again, I say that as a silly example, but sometimes like, there's a squirrel. What is that squirrel going to do to you? So really all we're afraid of is the thing that might happen. when we can vocalize That's overactive imagination creating things that aren't real. And we come back in a way to reality and we're like, OK, yeah, actually that is just a squirrel. Or it is just some water. Or it is just.

a stranger, cute little dog, you know, then we realize, okay, here I am now in the present reality and I actually don't have anything to be afraid of. That is a type of the exposure therapy I'm talking about where get out of our heads and get into the real world.

and then realize, I'm actually capable of doing this thing or taking this step or looking at that dog, you know. In fact, I've heard Jordan Peterson specifically talk about, you know, the exposure therapy and he's like.

He gave some silly example, but he was a clinical psychologist and these are real things. Like there's this woman who was afraid of balloons or something, you know? And so the first step was just being able to have a deflated balloon in the same room with her, you know? And then step by step, he would walk through to the point where now, okay, I can be in the same room with balloons and I'm not afraid anymore. Or an elevator, you know? They're afraid of being on an elevator. In fact, so afraid they couldn't even look at the elevator.

and just step by step you'd like, okay, we're gonna walk down and we're gonna look at the elevator, you know? And little by little, as you take those steps that you think you can't take because you're so afraid, that's how you actually get over being afraid.

Rachel Denning (01:07:23.146)
We live in such a comfortable time, such a luxurious time. I love studying history. I just absolutely love history and I love historical fictions. And as you look across what's written history, you realize that our time is so luxurious and so easy and so comfortable. It's unheard of. It doesn't take much. You don't have to be a historian to realize this is unheard of.

this kind of comfort, so comfortable in fact that we can get all worked up about silly little things. And then when you start contrasting it, you realize, my fears that I think are so real, at least feel real to me, they're actually ridiculous. And they're not a real threat at all. Especially when contrasted against history. And the real things that real people were facing.

Obviously World War II is an example. Those are things. There's lots of stories and books available. And you just read those stories. realize, okay, like... Well, dying from diseases and childbirth and, you know, I mean there was all sorts of things. So much. And then you realize, my little problems are genuine Mickey Mouse problems. My little fears are Mickey Mouse fears.

That for me at least has been helpful. Again, we're trying to share here what has worked for us. That for me has worked a lot. When I'm like, man, that's scary. And I think, hold up, like. Going to war would be scary. What would Dietrich Bonhoeffer think about my little fear? Give me a break.

Right. He's trying to figure out how to assassinate Hitler. Yeah. Yeah. And a good guy, he's plotting multiple assassinations of Hitler and the Nazis. Like, he chose to go back into Germany to fight. And ended up dying in a German prison. Right. So like, okay, let's have a contrast here that puts it into perspective. And let's face a lot of these. Now, you guys, if you're new here...

Rachel Denning (01:09:30.424)
Welcome. If you've been around, you know I'm a tear the bandaid off kind of guy and, and you know, baby steps are for babies. Let's take some big leaps. And with a bunch of these small fears, you could do that. You could take a bunch of leaps and no, I've done this and I can, I can recommend this because I've done this. You might line up a list of these little fears you have little insecurities and crud, you could face five or 10 of them in a week.

You could orchestrate an experience that just completely annihilates several of your fears in one swoop. Gone. Like they're no longer part of your life because you went in hardcore, faced them all, came out the other side and realized, huh, man, I should not have been afraid of that. I should not have let that thing hold me back for months or years or decades even. Like how ridiculous. you lean it and I've done that. I've done it with my kids.

We've, we've deliberately gone and chased down big things and you come out the other side realizing, okay, I no longer need to even be concerned about that. I don't need to give it a second thought. It's gone from my life. lean into that kind of stuff.

Man, because living an extraordinary life is worth every effort. It's worth whatever it costs us. It's worth facing all the fears that are keeping us from that. And a lot of you are just rolling along, held back, limit, literally limited by these fears and worries and insecurities. Overwhelm. Overwhelm. I mean, all this stuff. When you're not realizing that that right there is the path.

everything you want. So okay here's this your spouse will point these things out sometimes. Don't resist it. Your friends, family members, total strangers will point it out to you sometimes. Don't resist it. This is one of those moments where we want to cling to it, hold on to it. defensive. and you're like wait a minute why don't you just try it. Don't you.

Rachel Denning (01:11:46.126)
back off. is thing and I'm keeping it for the rest of my life. Because this is why. Yeah. Like no. If if if a coach or an experience or when you're out somewhere and you take a guided tour and the tour guides like OK let's let's go do this. Like be open to sign. Yeah. They're like OK say yes. Say yes. I love like taking people rock climbing and rappelling cliff jumping.

Like things like that, they naturally induce fears. It's an experience, especially repelling, man. You see pimple just, they're trembling like a leaf in the wind at the edge of the cliff. They're totally safe. They're all roped up and they're like, there's just something scary. I still get scared when I lean over the back of, you know, on the rope and I'm looking at my gear and I'm like, I'm going over. It's still scary. But you do things like that because then it helps with the other things.

I wholeheartedly believe, and what you said earlier just nailed it, like we, one of the worst things we can do is live within limits.

stop right there. Live within limits. Yeah that's one of worst things we do. Right. Because you condemn yourself and your posterity to your current limitations. It's like the flea. Yeah. There's a... They did a study and they took all these fleas and they put it in a jar, a little three inch jar and they put the lid on. Fleas can jump ten thousand... Two hundred times. Two hundred times their height. own height. Yep.

Which for like a human we'd be jumping like 10,000 feet or something. So, but a flea can jump 200 times its own height. So they put it in a little three inch jar and for a little bit the fleas would jump and smack against the lid, smack against the lid. They left them in there for a couple days. This is a true story. can research it. Not a story, it's a research project. They took the lid off. the fleas...

Rachel Denning (01:13:52.602)
have jumped out but they didn't. They no longer jumped higher than the height of the lid. And then what was most fascinating and so important is neither did their posterity. We call it posterity or children. Offspring. Neither did their offspring. Let that hit home. It had the capacity, it had the potential to jump 200 times its own height.

but their offspring only jumped the height of that lid. That is profound and powerful. And we see it with humans as well. many times the parents are the major limiting factors for the kids. And they're like, well, I want my kids to do things. I'm like, well, then you have to do it. You have to lead the way. Do not expect your kids to do things that you're not willing to do. It's on you.

If my kids are unwilling to do things because of limits that I passed along, it's on me. And if I want them to go past those limits, then I have to lead the way through that limiting barrier. Yeah. So important, so powerful. Okay. If you guys have any specific questions about this or any specific fears or worries, and you want us to walk through it, send us a question. This would be a good one. This would be very, fun. I would love that.

So if you've got one, you're like, hey, I don't know how to get over this or this is one of those tormented me or just reach out to us, share those things. Love you guys. Thanks for listening. Reach upward.