Raising Spiritually Resilient Kids in a Chaotic & Confused World

Greg Denning (00:01.267)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We're your host, Greg and Rachel Denning. And today we have a guest that we're super excited to talk about and talk with and discuss parenting and motherhood and all kinds of awesome things. JENNILEE Samuel is with us and you are a senior pastor with your husband,

Jenilee Samuel (00:22.581)
Yes, sir.

Greg Denning (00:23.831)
Among other things podcaster all kinds of things. Why don't you introduce yourself your family and kind of tell us the the mission and ministry you're on

Jenilee Samuel (00:31.982)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you for having me. And Greg and I met because he actually came on my show first and we had a great time. but yeah, we live over in Texas. We're senior pastors. We've got four teenage boys, 13 to 19. And I'm a podcaster and I coach podcasters and all the things. Yeah, we have a lot of fun. We stay busy.

Greg Denning (00:53.387)
Love it. Man, four teenage boys. That's an adventure right there.

Jenilee Samuel (00:56.456)
Yes. I'm just thankful they can actually make meals for themselves. That's a major win.

Greg Denning (01:03.799)
Especially because teenage boys eat so much.

Jenilee Samuel (01:07.278)
Gosh, yes. I literally was like, you guys are gonna, when you get jobs, you guys need to give us the parent tithe, which is to help with groceries. I'm kidding, I didn't, but yeah.

Greg Denning (01:15.123)
Exactly. I love it. Okay, tell us what it like, what does it look like? What does a week in the life look like? Obviously, you guys raising your boys, but also being pastors.

Jenilee Samuel (01:26.478)
Yeah, well, we became senior pastors a little over a year ago, but we've been pastoring together our entire marriage of 20 years. And then I grew up a missionary kid and he grew up a pastor kid. And so we've both grown up in ministry. I decided when I was probably around 12, 13, I'm never going to be a missionary. And then I felt the Lord call me to missions around 14 when I also just gave my life to the Lord in a fresh way. And

I've never gone long term overseas, but I've done multiple short missions. And anyway, so I've just known I was called to ministry for a long time, wanted to be Lisa Bavier. And so I had four boys, no, I'm just kidding. anyways, and so that's actually how my podcast started is because even though we were pastors, there was nowhere for me to preach. And I got tired of crying and feeling like my gifts were withering away. And so I started a podcast so I could be quiet.

on corner of the internet but develop myself and now I'm no longer hiding on the corner of the internet.

Greg Denning (02:28.407)
I love that. That's awesome. So, sorry, you can chime in here. There's multiple quotes out there about this song we're born to sing. I feel like God sent us...

to the earth to do something and it sounds like you had a voice and even in being a pastor like it still wasn't enough so you want to start the podcast like what what do feel like is your message what's that core message that you just feel called to shout and share

Jenilee Samuel (03:00.694)
Yes, yes. I've asked myself that question. And I asked myself, if I could only do one thing, because I'm a creative. So I've found myself doing lots of things. And the Lord has pulled me through various assignments, one including being a wardrobe stylist for Stitch Fix for a season, and then business consulting, just random things. And so it cost me to ask, if I could only do one thing in my life.

and feel like I had accomplished what God put me here for, what is that? And I realized that for me, it's just teaching people how to hear God's voice, which is the premise of my podcast. And so that's what everything tends to come back to is the importance of being able to hear his voice and follow his leadership in our life.

Greg Denning (03:44.883)
Awesome, that's beautiful. And so, like, I love this, your story and all this stuff. It's so fascinating to me and I would love to hear more about some of the missions you did, but I'm also curious, like, specifically with that specific topic you're just mentioning, like hearing God's voice, how has that played out in your parenting, like raising your boys? How did you implement that in your parenting approach?

Jenilee Samuel (04:02.509)
Yeah.

Jenilee Samuel (04:12.818)
my gosh, it's been a lifesaver. It's so necessary. Ever since I was young, I've kind of had this, I don't know what you call it, a common sense philosophy that it's like, know, if God knows everything and he knows me and he knows all the things and he'll talk to me, why wouldn't I ask him his thoughts and kind of like a life hack? Like, hey, if you can talk to the one who knows everything, you have a leg up, you know? And so I've kind of had that approach since I was young.

And so as a parent, mean, it showed up in all the ways. Like I remember one time my boys came running in the room and they were like, I don't know, three, five and seven or something. And they had been fighting and arguing and like, he did it, he did it, all this. And I just remember looking at them and they were all very believable. And so I was like, shoot, I don't know who to discipline and who to believe. And so I said, boys, I can't really tell who's lying and who's telling the truth. So.

I'm gonna ask the Holy Spirit, because he knows. So just give me a moment, I'm gonna ask the Holy Spirit. So I literally right there in front of just sitting on my bed, I just closed my eyes and I was like, Holy Spirit, throw me a bone here. Like, I don't know what to do. And I felt him whisper to my heart. He said, said, Judah, your oldest, my oldest, he said, Judah is trying to cover the truth. And I loved it, because even the words the Lord chose were not accusing, it was just revealing, you know? And so he said, Judah's trying to cover the truth. And so I looked at Judah and I go, hey, Judah,

the Holy Spirit just told me that you're trying to cover the truth. Is there more you want to tell me?" And then he was like, okay, I did it. So from then on out, anytime I got stumped with the boys, they would just go, I know mom, just ask the Holy Spirit, just ask the Holy Spirit. Almost like Holy Spirit was a tattletale method. So just things like that. if the boys would have dreams, there was a season where...

The Lord was taking me, training me in dream interpretation. And so the boys would have dreams and we would pay attention to their dreams and then they would come and they would start, they started learning how to try to interpret their own dreams. so as we pursue hearing the Lord's voice, it models for them to begin to hear the Lord's voice. And I mean, I have so many stories I could share, but it just shows up in daily life like that. And it's just been a fun adventure.

Greg Denning (06:21.131)
Mm-hmm.

Greg Denning (06:30.103)
That's awesome. Yeah. So, okay, there's you meet so many people, we meet so many people, and there's a lot of, well, there's a lot of people exiting out of religion. There's a lot of people exiting out of faith, and they're skeptical. So how, like somebody would say, it was just your mind that was just...

You just made that up, you're creative, whatever. How is it that you feel God's presence or God talking to you? How is it you're making space to feel the Spirit?

Jenilee Samuel (07:13.644)
Yeah. Well, mean, first of all, you have to fundamentally build it off of the belief that God is going to speak to us because he's a good father. Like if we as parents, if I suddenly stopped talking to my children, I didn't bother to nurture them. I didn't bother to comfort them when they were upset. I didn't bother to give them wisdom when they were feeling stuck in something in life. Then I would literally be a negligent parent. Like that's abuse of parenting. And so if I wouldn't do that to my kids,

Why do so many people think that the Lord is gonna be so removed from the parenting process himself? Like he is the good, good father. And so the foundation has to be that we know that God is good and faithful and he's gonna speak to us. And his word says that all over the place. Jeremiah 33, three, and that if you come and you seek me and you come and pray to me, I will show you great and unsearchable things that you do not know. Like he promises.

to not just speak to us and comfort us and be with us, but he promises to show us things that we wouldn't otherwise have knowledge of. And so the fact that that truth is there, then it leads to, okay, well, how do I begin to recognize his voice? And that's really the big challenge for everyone is how do I? And I wish it was this black and white, hard and fast, you're hearing or you're not hearing situation, but it's very nuanced. It's very, you're learning.

to step out of your natural senses into your spiritual senses. And it's nuanced. It's like a dance. It's a sensitivity you develop. And so with our kids, in fact, I've asked my kids this question. What would you tell someone who wants to learn to hear God? And they're like, you have to read your Bible. If you're not reading your Bible, you're not going to know the kinds of things he'll be saying. And so we do believe that putting the word in first, reading the word, is the number one place that the Lord begins to speak to us and gives us wisdom.

But then for those situations that are maybe outside of the scope of what scripture says, like who should I marry or should I take this job, you know, things like that, then we have to begin to learn to recognize his leading. And I believe that comes through peace. He's the Prince of peace and he counsels us through peace. A lot of times I'll ask the Lord for confirmations if I'm praying into a situation and I just don't know which way is best, I'll ask the Lord for confirmation.

Jenilee Samuel (09:31.97)
But then sometimes the Lord is like, hey, it's your call. Sometimes if I'm not getting a strong leading, He's like, you've got a brain, use it, figure it out, go make a decision. And so I think sometimes we can over-spiritualize where we think God has a directive for every decision we make. And I don't think that's true because I don't micromanage my kids' lives. I like to see them use their gifts and use their creativity. I just kind of offer parameters to keep them in safety and in wisdom. And I think the Lord

Greg Denning (09:35.316)
Hmm

Greg Denning (09:40.245)
Yes!

Jenilee Samuel (10:01.748)
Lord is very similar in that way as well. And so I don't know that answers your question.

Greg Denning (10:06.773)
Well, agree. Man, I totally agree. think there's so much. He's like, hey, you're here to choose. Figure things out. Do some research. Make a decision. I don't care what color you paint your bedroom. I get after it. That's good.

Jenilee Samuel (10:11.33)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Greg Denning (10:20.993)
So one of the things I'm thinking about though, and I imagine people are questioning, and you kind of touched on it already, talking about being able to figure out the nuances and of course feeding it by first receiving that positive input from the Bible.

in your mind, is there a difference between, let's say, hearing God's voice and or intuition or are they deeply connected? Are they the same for you? Or is there a difference?

Jenilee Samuel (10:55.564)
Yeah, okay, that's a beautiful question. I've heard Havilla Cunnington, she has a teaching that talks about like the four ways that we hear God's voice and that some people, like my husband, for example, he more hears like audible hearing or not audible, but like he'll hear thoughts or he'll hear a voice inside. Whereas I do hear, but I also see, I'll see pictures, I'll see images.

I also feel and I'll feel an impression. I'll just feel kind of like a gut check or a gut instinct. And then, so I feel like there's a lot of different ways that God speaks to us using, but I think the way we're wired changes potentially how we primarily hear from him. And so I usually encourage people just to start paying attention. I remember when I was in Bible school and this kind of.

helped me start to hear the Lord's voice is they told us for like a week, they said, just carry your notebook around. Now we would carry our cell phones. And they said, just write down any time you feel like God might be speaking to you. And it could be a thought that comes through your mind. It could be an impression that you have in your gut. It could just be this nagging thought that won't go away or that comes on a recurring basis. It could be that someone says something that just feels, it feels really highlighted. It strikes you differently.

Greg Denning (12:14.998)
Thank

Jenilee Samuel (12:15.328)
And so there's lots of different ways the Lord speaks, just like there's lots of different ways that we might speak to our children too.

Greg Denning (12:21.303)
I've so long felt that God and his universe are always conspiring in our favor. And all those things you're talking about, like he'll nudge us and guide us and sometimes stop us and just really trying to help us.

Jenilee Samuel (12:29.526)
Yeah, I like that.

Greg Denning (12:40.289)
do the thing that we were born to do, right? And become the very best version of ourself. And I feel like he uses all those instruments and all the tools, everything that's possible out there, he wants to use to help us in our favor. Just whatever it takes. Look, let me help you get the things that are best for you. And so, and along those lines, and tell me what you think about this because...

Jenilee Samuel (12:42.123)
Yeah.

Jenilee Samuel (12:55.478)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jenilee Samuel (13:00.29)
Yeah.

Greg Denning (13:06.473)
at least in my experience, that's something, because I love your story about having that notebook or our phone nowadays and writing it down because it's almost like as we...

practice as we do that thing as we take action then that's how we get better at being able to recognize being able to pay attention to those signs or that the message that's coming because otherwise if we're like well I don't know but we don't do anything about it and we never write anything down and we never think about it or pay attention well then it's obviously more difficult to have that guidance or to have that intuition in our life

Jenilee Samuel (13:27.041)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Greg Denning (13:47.833)
because we are not doing our part. We're not paying attention.

Jenilee Samuel (13:48.557)
Yeah.

Jenilee Samuel (13:52.246)
Yeah, 100%. And what you're referencing, too, is like, I think in Hebrews it talks about, so long as it, well, that's another scripture. But it talks about being sensitive when you hear the Lord speak to be sensitive to obey, because we can dull our senses, if you will, to his voice. And I was having a conversation with my son the other day. And he's 19, and so he's learning. He's exploring his adult freedoms.

And but he still lives under our roof. so he was starting to watch some TV shows on his laptop that I wasn't a real fan of, you know. And, you know, there's there's this new balance we're trying to figure out of, respecting his autonomy. But also you're living in my house, you know, if you're living in your own home, that's your business. Do what you want. Like, I'm to pray for you, but do what you want, you know. But in my home, I don't know that I want you watching Love Island, you know. And so just I was talking to him and I was like, you just.

stop watching this trash in my house. I kind of had a hit pitch fever because there had a few shows we had to address. he was like, OK, fine, mom. I'm just never going to watch anything. I've just decided I'm not watching TV shows at all. And he went to this other extreme. And I looked at him. Yeah, right? And I looked at him and I was like,

Greg Denning (15:01.259)
Yes! No more media!

Jenilee Samuel (15:06.732)
That's not what I'm after because that's not where the Holy Spirit lives. The Holy Spirit lives in the middle where we have to walk in discernment and sensitivity and a sensitive conscience. said, Judah, if watching these shows is not grieving your conscience, at what point did you start numbing your conscience? Like at what point did you stop listening to his voice? Was it the music you were choosing? Did it start there? Like if these things are entertainment that do not honor the Lord,

and it's not grieving your spirit, at what point did your spirit grow insensitive? And he stood and he really listened and he was like, huh. And I think it was because I don't want him to live in extremes. Ecclesiastes says a man of God avoids all extremes. And I think what a lot of people do in our religious fervor, we'll look for either extreme because it feels safer, we know where the lines are.

But it doesn't require partnership with the Holy Spirit to live in extremes. That's just the law. And the law takes us to extremes. But the spirit, the spirit of truth, walks us in that place of grace where we have to hear his wisdom. We have to hear his nudgings, to be sensitive, to obey. And that's what I'm trying to encourage my students, our church, my children, to live in that middle place where wisdom operates. And wisdom requires you be sensitive to hear and to obey his voice.

Greg Denning (16:30.167)
Yes. Well, I love that too because one of the things my family knows and our podcast listeners know about me is I kind of obsess about the yin and the yang. know, like for some reason I've always loved that from the time I was a teenager. Like I love the yin and the yang. And that to me really represents that idea that you're talking about. Like we have to have that balance of the yin and the yang, the black and the white. And it also represents walking.

and moving forward like you have this balance where you have two feet but you also have to be able to move forward by taking those steps and so it is it's that nuanced looking of okay where how do I maintain this balance so I can move forward not staying put not being extreme in one or the other but I'm moving forward step by step to make this progress by this nuanced attention so that's beautiful.

Jenilee Samuel (17:22.253)
Yeah.

Jenilee Samuel (17:26.862)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where John, I think it's John 10 that talks about how my sheep hear my voice and the voice of another they will not follow. And that word sheep, actually, when you look at the original text, it actually implies mature sheep, those who are mature in the faith. And

Greg Denning (17:30.041)
Yeah, that's a beautiful middle way.

Jenilee Samuel (17:50.016)
And even Paul talks about how the law is for us when we're young in the faith, right? The law is there as guardrails to keep us when we're young with our children. It's very much like there's more black and whites when our children are young. But as they get older, they start to learn how to navigate those nuanced areas of life, right? And where discretion is necessary. And I just feel like for people that are growing in their faith, like there's a season for the law to be

Greg Denning (18:08.055)
All right.

Jenilee Samuel (18:19.04)
a tutor for us and the law tells us what the parameters are. But as we grow in the Lord, we begin to move from the law and the black and white hard fast rules into, and there are always principles. I'm not saying that truth or principles of righteousness get fuzzy, but the way that we walk those things out in life can start to, there's just nuance. There's moments where it's like, which direction do I lean into this? Like Judah.

I'm gonna cut out all TV. I'm like, you know, that might be appropriate for a season if you need to detox a little bit or for an addict who's like, I will never go near blah, blah, blah because I'm trying to get a handle on the sin in my life. But then later as we mature, then grace comes in and there may be an ability to walk with more balance, you know? And so I feel like it's the same thing in learning to hear the Lord's voice. And when the kids are young, we primarily are teaching them read the word of God and just follow the principles there. But as we grow,

Greg Denning (19:06.817)
Thank

Jenilee Samuel (19:17.664)
learning to hear his voice becomes something that can guide us in those gray areas and those gray moments that we're just not entirely sure what to do with and we just need his wisdom.

Greg Denning (19:23.563)
Yeah.

and helping our kids become more self-directed. So fewer hard rules and saying to make the right decision, do the right thing for the right reason at the right time, and guide your own life. It's beautiful. Well, and one of the things that it really reminds me of that you're talking about, we listen to the Jordan Peterson Exodus series as a family. in Deuteronomy, or no, obviously it was Exodus, but in one section it was talking

Jenilee Samuel (19:37.442)
Yeah. Yeah.

Greg Denning (19:57.439)
about the law.

and they were talking specifically about the Jewish clothing and they have their clothing that's all meant to be symbolic and to remind them of things and one of the things they have on their clothing is the fringe. The fringe is at bottom of it but it's there as they were expounding on it was so fascinating to me because they talked about how the fringe represents in a way exactly what you were talking about that you have the rules and the laws and the standards but you always have to make room for the fringe for the nuances for the

You have to have that intuition to decide and understand things. But one of the other things they really explained was that

Jenilee Samuel (20:33.355)
Yeah.

Greg Denning (20:37.481)
there's fringe on both ends. There's fringe on the bottom and that's where we get lost in addiction and sin and all of those things we don't want but there's the fringe on the top too and so like you were saying we need the law to guide us and direct us but at some point we kind of do come to that upper fringe where we have to use more of our intuition and that relationship that we have to know exactly what our right path is for us.

Jenilee Samuel (21:01.249)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I have, OK, I love what you're saying. And I have an example. was trying to think this whole time. I was like, what's an example of this? For those who are listening, they're like, what are you guys talking about? know, when the kids were little and this was the time we were paying attention to dreams and stuff, my second son had had a dream that he was like three and he could barely communicate the dream. But in the dream, he dreamt that there was a really big snake eating his blanket and.

Greg Denning (21:05.175)
Because it's going to look different from...

Jenilee Samuel (21:31.626)
In dream interpretation, a snake can represent lies or the attack of the enemy. In this case, it would have been an attack of the enemy because it was eating, it was attacking something. But the blanket, the covering would represent me or his dad, like us parents. And so the message I received from his dream was like that the enemy was looking for an opportunity to attack me or his dad. It didn't bring fear or anything, but it just made me kind of watchful. The Lord is giving a warning so that we can have wisdom.

Well, in that same timeframe, that movie Snow White, the real action, live action Snow White had come out and it was only rated PG. And I really wanted to watch the movie because I loved Snow White as a kid. But I kept feeling like the Holy Spirit was giving me a check in my spirit about watching it. And I was like, that's silly. It's just PG. It's Snow White for Pete's sake. And so was like, I'm just going to watch it anyway. So I kept pushing past that sense of hesitation.

and kind of logic-ing my way into disobedience. so I'm watching it. And then there was a couple scenes where there was some pretty dark witchcraft in it. And I was like, so I just fast forwarded instead. Instead of stopping the movie, which I felt the Holy Spirit prompting me to do, I just was like, I'll just fast forward these scenes. And so I just fast forward, I just fast forward. But by the time the movie was over, I knew I had disobeyed the wisdom the Holy Spirit was trying to give me, which was, don't watch this movie.

And I don't know everything the Lord knows, but when I looked at the dream my son had had that the enemy was looking for a doorway, and then after the movie, the very next day, I developed a systemic infection in my body. It was throughout my whole system. And I realized that the witchcraft in that movie, for whatever reason, became just a doorway into our home.

In that season the Lord had given wisdom and warning like hey the enemy's looking for a way in don't watch this movie It's got witchcraft. I watched the movie doors open now i'm sick, you know And so I realized the Lord was trying to give wisdom now pg movies Typically fine, you know, so if I was looking at it from the law, I would say pg falls into the allowable movies, you know, but because I was walking in or should have been walking in discernment and listening to the Holy Spirit and he was giving me specific wisdom for that specific moment in time

Jenilee Samuel (23:48.875)
I shouldn't have watched it, you know? And then it created an open door. So that's kind of an example for us anyways of like where that nuance would have come in.

Greg Denning (23:56.753)
I think that's a good lead in there. I wanted to talk for a second about just like habits and practices, daily routines, daily rituals that keep us even open to walking with God, to being open to promptings because I think for everybody listening, for all of us, it's so easy to get so busy.

or our minds get busy, right? We're really sensitive or overloaded, overwhelmed. We get distracted. Even like letting our ego or pride get in the way, it creates so much noise in our heads. You can't even think clearly, let alone like hear the whisperings of intuition or the spirit. So.

Do you and your husband or your family, do you guys have daily practices, rhythms, rituals, things that help you check in and kind of make sure you're staying present?

Jenilee Samuel (24:52.429)
I wish we were that structured. Nothing that's particularly habitual other than we all want to have a daily consistent time with the Lord where we're checking in with the Lord, reading the word, listening to the word, whatever that should look like. And as holy and spiritual as it sounds to say, I wake up at 5 a.m. and read my word every day, that is just not my life. Like I can't do that. I would if the Lord told me to. We'll rephrase that.

Greg Denning (25:17.303)
you

Jenilee Samuel (25:22.091)
But I live in a state where I'm constantly looking to connect with the Lord and lean in and hear what he's saying. So when I'm doing dishes, when I'm driving, when I'm vacuuming, when I'm folding laundry, I'm talking to the Lord because what else am I gonna do? And it's fun. Now there have been times that I fill my ears and my eyes with so much busyness from my phone, whether it's a podcast or social media or just constantly noises going in and the Lord'll.

the Lord will be like, hey, why don't we bring some stillness back in? Why don't we bring some quiet back in? Because you can't hold space for if I'm wanting to talk to you, if there's always something going on. And so we've actually talked to the boys about that recently, about the importance of not being on your phone every time you're walking around the house. know, like be bored, sit at the table and eat without a screen in your face. You know, like do the things to carve out space and

quiet also because you can't get sensitive to the Lord if you're never in stillness, if you're never in quietness. You can't very well learn how to hear his voice because it's in quietness that he speaks.

Greg Denning (26:30.827)
Yes. I also love though how you're talking about this as though it's just fully integrated into your life. And I remember years ago when Greg and I were first married, I read this book or I listened to this book called The Practice of the Presence of God. And it's an old book. So good. I forgot about that.

Jenilee Samuel (26:51.917)
think it's free on Amazon. It is.

Greg Denning (26:53.463)
Yeah, it is. It's like, good. good for me, right? But he talks about that. He's like, everything I do, whether I'm sweeping or I'm washing the dishes or I'm picking up a piece of straw from the ground, he's like, it's all integrated with God, like being with him and him being with me. And so it's really just a part of all of it. And then also, I think it was maybe Buddha. I don't know. But he said, or it was a monk. I don't know. But he said, after enlightenment comes the dishes.

Jenilee Samuel (27:04.791)
Mm-hmm.

Greg Denning (27:23.447)
You know, it's like even if we're living in this state of trying to be in the presence of God, we still do the dishes and we still have to the bills and we still have to, you know, like all of those things are just a part of life. so integrating it in is, the magic, I guess that's where, yeah.

Jenilee Samuel (27:35.266)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jenilee Samuel (27:43.702)
100%. And I think that's that scripture that says pray without ceasing. I think that's what is that's in reference to you because at the end of the day the Lord's primary goal is he wants to be in fellowship with us. know like then in the New Testament it says maybe be encouraged by the fellowship of the Holy Spirit. Like we're meant to walk. mean Romans 8, Romans 8 14 I think those who are sons of God are led by the Spirit of God. And so

Greg Denning (27:47.625)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Jenilee Samuel (28:08.737)
There is God's design. mean, look at the garden. They walked with the Lord in the cool of the garden. There is a fellowshiping that is God's original design, fellowshiping with us. And sin is the only thing that separated us from that. And an important way to walk in fellowship is that any time we become aware of sin in our life, that we just deal with it quickly. I tell my boys all the time, I'm like, boys, repentance is one of my favorite things in the world. Because

Greg Denning (28:19.287)
Thank

Jenilee Samuel (28:37.153)
It doesn't have to come with shame. It doesn't have to come with all this heaviness. It's just, wow, Lord, I'm so sorry. I messed that up. Please forgive me. Help me do better. Okay, moving on. Repentance is meant to be simple, but it's cleansing and it's freeing and it's, I mean, you feel so good. Like you just took a good bath afterwards. yeah. And so repentance is one of my favorite things, but it's an important aspect of learning to hear God is...

Greg Denning (28:52.821)
Thank you.

I'm taking a shower.

Jenilee Samuel (29:04.781)
cleaning out the airways. An analogy I give the boys is if we're at the theater, at the movie theater, and if everyone starts throwing popcorn and nachos and soda and junk at the screen and the screen is covered in filth, you're not gonna be able to see the movie very well. And so I tell them, I'm like, that's what it is when we're putting junk into our system or we're sinning or we're entertaining bad things. You're clogging up.

the ability to see clearly what God might be showing you or hear clearly what he might be trying to say to you. And so it's just, we just want to keep the airways clean so we can hear from the Father, because no one in life is going to have our best intentions at heart like he does. so, yeah.

Greg Denning (29:46.647)
And forgiveness is like the most beautiful thing out there. I had such a like really powerful experience this morning. It brought me to tears of a friend who he just grew up in a really, really, really tough situation. And so it led him into the drug world and just dark things for years.

And he's come out of that. He's changed. He's one of the sweetest people you'd ever meet. He has an adorable daughter. his wife. And they're just, amazing human beings. And he was just, he was sobbing this morning in the pain and remorse of his past decision, which were years ago. It still was so painful.

It was fun to just, was fun and beautiful and wonderful to just be like, hey, all of that's in the past. It's all gone. And he was wrestling with this, how can I have good things in my life because I had done such bad things. And that's where that beautiful grace of forgiveness comes in and say, leave those things back there. Leave the trash in the dump.

Jenilee Samuel (30:59.298)
Yeah.

Jenilee Samuel (31:06.487)
Yeah.

Greg Denning (31:12.199)
on to becoming a new creature, right, in Christ. And this goodness, man, was just, it's so important to let that go and clear those pathways like you're talking about, clear the airway and be new.

Jenilee Samuel (31:14.657)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jenilee Samuel (31:22.999)
Yeah.

Jenilee Samuel (31:26.795)
Yeah, it's so good. I actually have a story kind of connected to that. There was a season where, and this is also how God uses our kids to speak to us, and just recognizing his voice in whatever form it takes. it was a number of years ago, and I was driving down the road, and my son was in the very back seat of the car. It was nighttime. He was quiet, just kind of thinking, dreaming out the window or whatever. And I was in the front seat crying quietly. And I was crying, processing through.

some regrets that I had carried in my life from years just prior to that. And just asking the Lord, like Lord, how can I separate my soul and my daily experience from carrying this grief and this regret and these over failures and mistakes that I've made? And it was just really like this heavy moment of me trying to process, how do I get past this? How do I get past that grief and heaviness?

And my son from the backseat just speaks up out of nowhere. And it's one of those moments where his voice was like highlighted because it was the Lord speaking through him. And he goes, Hey mom, how far is the East from the West? And I was like, I knew immediately what, what he was thinking about and what the Lord was speaking. And I said, what do you mean buddy? And he goes, you know, that Bible passage that says God separates our sin from us as far as the East is from the West. What does that mean? And I was like,

Greg Denning (32:49.171)
What?

Jenilee Samuel (32:51.537)
I just like cried some more. was like, okay, Lord, I hear you. And so now I'm trying to answer for my son, this beautiful story that is the Lord like speaking to me at the same time. It was just so powerful. But that's just the beauty, too, of like when you cultivate in your home, this environment of like we honor the Lord's presence. We love the Lord's presence. And and he speaks to our kids. He does. And he loves you. And and it just that's.

Like I said earlier, it's part of what makes it such an adventure and then your kids get to minister to you, you know, and it's just, it's neat.

Greg Denning (33:22.857)
It's beautiful. Super beautiful. I love that. So far. The east from the west. That's Yeah, exactly. But that's what's so beautiful about it. It's like it just hits you. It's so far. Like it's so far. And we can start over. And be new and be changed and be renewed and...

Jenilee Samuel (33:25.09)
Yeah.

Jenilee Samuel (33:28.717)
It's a really hard question to answer, by the way. Yeah, exactly.

Greg Denning (33:49.111)
I love this idea is like every morning we can wake up and say you know what I got a clean slate and I'm starting new I'm starting fresh even if yesterday I made a mistake like I can wake up today and I can strive to be the very best version of me and I can show up and I can try to have that inner peace and listen and do the right thing for the right reason and man just live in happiness.

Jenilee Samuel (34:18.049)
I think a lot of people get stuck, and you could probably attest to this with your coaching and stuff, but I think a lot of people get stuck in the process of learning to hear God's voice and wanting to pull their kids into the process, but feeling disqualified to do it because of the times where we just screw up, you know, we mess it up. like, it feels hypocritical to be like, listen to God's voice and obey him, and then I'm over here screaming at my kids, you know, like the...

The hypocrisy that can make us feel so disqualified, right? And I feel like it's so important, and this is something that's important to us, at least in our home, is that I don't want my kids to think that to be qualified for the Lord to use you have to be perfect because it's just not achievable. But I do want them to recognize that when we screw up, we just need to be quick to repent, but repent to each other, you know? And so...

my kind of my standard is if my kids witness my bad behavior or even my husband's bad behavior, I'll address it. And I'll be like, you know what? I was wrong. Or I'll even say, because there was a season that my husband was really, really unhealthy. And I had to address for my kids, listen, the way dad's behaving right now is not OK. And I would address it only because they'd seen it. I wouldn't pull up anything they didn't know about, you know, but anything they had witnessed, I would say, hey, that's not OK. And I would do the same.

I yelled and that was not okay for me to be yelling. I lost patience. I lost control. And I think that by being able to be honest with our mistakes and honest with our humanity, it models for them, the humility of, I'm gonna make mistakes and I need to be able to own it. But it also kind of lowers the bar in that they don't feel like they have to be perfect for God to use them or to even be a good father or a good mother. Mistakes happen and I am actively seeking to do better.

Greg Denning (35:59.607)
you

Jenilee Samuel (36:10.765)
But I'm going to own it when I don't. And then it removes the hypocrisy and instead introduces that idea of I really do need the Holy Spirit. Like I need to be hearing his voice. I'm trying to hear his voice and I'm not going to do it perfectly in Neither Are You, but we're in this together. And so I think it kind of evens the playing field a bit and pulls away a lot of those barriers of entrance, if you will.

Greg Denning (36:35.671)
Yeah.

Well, and that's so beautiful and so true because I personally kind of grew up with this view when I was younger and I was taught it by some people that, you know, the prophets in the scriptures and stuff were almost perfect. But it was actually Jordan Peterson that helped me fully understand, like, no, they're not. They were actually flawed human beings with lots of family problems and issues.

Jenilee Samuel (37:06.06)
Yeah.

Greg Denning (37:07.575)
things and yet that was kind of the point. Like God was using them in spite of or even because of all of those things and so it ties in exactly with what you're saying here that yeah we don't have to be perfect to be an instrument in God's hands and in fact even down to you know the line of David, of Christ coming from David, like it wasn't a perfect clean line. There were mistakes and there were mess-ups and there were all kinds of problems and that's okay.

Jenilee Samuel (37:17.505)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jenilee Samuel (37:32.107)
Nope.

Greg Denning (37:37.578)
Like it's okay for us to recognize that that's just the nature of how it works.

Jenilee Samuel (37:37.866)
Mm-hmm.

Jenilee Samuel (37:42.815)
Yeah, because it just shows off God's bigness. Go ahead.

Greg Denning (37:45.623)
Yes, it does. saw this video today, it was Bear Grylls and John Eldridge talking. they were pointing out, were like, you look into it a lot. The majority of Christ's disciples during his ministry were under the age of 30. like, Volcom was like 13 to like 28. And it's like, you know, we tend to picture them as old and long beard and ripped. you're like, it was just young.

Jenilee Samuel (38:10.381)
seasoned.

Greg Denning (38:15.577)
rough group of fishermen and farmers and carpenters like just trying to figure things out. Yeah. Right? And it's kind of rough. he's like, that is so awesome. That visual, that story is like, they're just like, let's go! And like they're just impetuous and bold and crazy and making mistakes. yet those were his disciples. That was his group.

Jenilee Samuel (38:26.87)
Yeah.

Greg Denning (38:43.807)
And so we can go from wherever we are and just keep trying to get better. Right? When miss the mark, like sin is missing the mark. When we miss the mark, say, okay, let me try that again. Let me do it better and keep moving forward. So I love that. Let me wrap up here. Let me ask one kind of closing question. If you just had, you had the attention. yeah.

Jenilee Samuel (38:49.888)
Yeah.

Jenilee Samuel (38:54.007)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So good. So good. Let me plug in my laptop real quick. Hold on. Sorry, I didn't realize it was unplugged. Go ahead.

Greg Denning (39:14.007)
If you have the attention of the attention of a massive group of moms right now and they're just listening attentively What would you say what's What is is one thing that you just know you know what this is what I would just shout from the rooftops to moms

Jenilee Samuel (39:17.163)
Jenilee Samuel (39:39.832)
There's a lot of cliche things that could be said here. I'm like, what's a not cliche thing that I can say? I think I just always want moms to understand how crucial what they do is in light of eternity. I mean, you look at what we're dealing with on the national and international scale. Gender ideology is attacked. The male, female family structure is the most under assault thing in the history.

of ever. And you've got kids being trafficked and jacked up from the trauma that they're experiencing. You've got an entire generation that is being crippled by screens and the underdevelopment that then happens because in their crucial years of development, they're just escaping on screens. And then you've got this generation that's suicidal and depressed because of it.

They're malnourished because of our nutrition and our food supply. And so it's like, and then you've got abortion and then the fight for abortion and the confusion around there. There has never been such an assault against family and identity. And so for moms to realize, like I was thinking about this this morning, just randomly, like if you're not praying for your kids, who is?

Greg Denning (40:40.203)
Yep.

Greg Denning (40:49.963)
Right.

Jenilee Samuel (41:00.971)
Like we as moms and I say that not to be trite, but because in reality, I think a lot of moms would probably say they don't pray for their kids as much as they feel like they should. And I don't like that word should, but just when we're fueled with the vision and the understanding that what you're doing is the most crucial thing in humanity. There's a reason Satan went after Eve in the garden because she's the bringer of life. There's a reason.

God called her Ezer Kanegdo, Ezer meaning life-saving one that he only uses in reference to himself otherwise. And Kanegdo meaning toe-to-toe, face-to-face and to challenge your husband into the bigness of who he is. And so women are not only the life-saving ones to our husbands, but you're also the bringer of life in general. And it's like, as moms, I believe that mothers are gonna be some of the...

Greg Denning (41:41.559)
Yeah.

Jenilee Samuel (41:55.616)
And that's not to minimize the role of fathers by any stretch, but I think mothers, women have been the most oppressed people group throughout history. And in all cultures throughout history, women have been. And I think that women can so easily buy into the lie that what they do is insignificant or small, especially when it's the the tedia see of just wiping noses and wiping butts, you know, and and we can lose perspective of how essential.

Greg Denning (42:19.991)
Thank

Jenilee Samuel (42:24.459)
what we do is. And I can't tell you how many adults that I, as a pastor, have talked to and everything from their eating habits to the way they process situations comes down to, this is how my mom taught me to do it. Well, this is how my mom always did it. And literally 50 something year old adults who only still eat hamburgers and hot dogs because that's all mom fed them. I'm like, you're 50, broaden your horizons.

Greg Denning (42:49.751)
Exactly.

Jenilee Samuel (42:52.001)
but it also puts the fear of the Lord in your heart. Like what you do as a mother is so crucial and is shaping history. there's a movie that I think paints this picture so well. was, what's the movie? It's the Avengers, the one with the glove and Thor has the stones, you know, and it looks like he's wiping, I don't remember which one that is, but he's wiping out the heroes, Spider-Man and all those guys. They're literally dying. And it looks like,

the bad guy's gonna win. And then in the very final scene, all of a sudden, all the women rise up, the women heroes, they show up on the scene and they begin to turn the tide. And I just felt like that scene of that movie is so prophetic and so speaks to what God is doing in this season. Now I do believe in God's final hour, men and women are going to rule and conquer together. I don't believe it's gonna be one over the other, but God at the same time is so redemptive that.

Satan tried to take out Eve in the garden and God's gonna use Eve to crush the head of the serpent in the final hour. And so I just feel like women, if you feel discouraged in what you're doing as a mother or as a woman or the role of your voice, there's a reason why you're feeling discouraged in that. It's because it's so powerful and so essential to what God is doing in the broader scale of things. And so that's what I would say.

Greg Denning (44:16.151)
Woo! Amen! Wow! And yes, you hit all the stuff. Yes, yes, yes. And I love how you point out like, like what moms are doing ripples for generations. Yeah, it does. It's massive. And dads need to be right in there too. Like, I work with dads all the time. Dads gotta step up. But moms and dads together, we've got to make sure...

Jenilee Samuel (44:17.357)
hahahaha

Jenilee Samuel (44:33.335)
Yeah. Yes.

Greg Denning (44:43.095)
We're leading our kids and our families in the right direction. intention, with clarity, with purpose, instead of just like, let me just go through the motions here and survive. let's be intentional because we are creating and leaving that legacy. That's so powerful. That's awesome.

Jenilee Samuel (44:58.861)
Yes. You know, there was a vision that I'd had. I'll end with this. There was a vision that I had back in like, I don't know, 2012 or 2015 something. And I was at church. I was on the stage. And I that's where we sat as leadership. And and I just I was looking over the congregation. The Lord kind of gave me this vision of this coming third grade awakening, this coming revival that's coming to the earth. And it was just this sense of God's final move in the earth is going to look like this. And he showed me this pregnant woman.

And she represented the church and that coming move. And in her womb was families. it was like family, these small little intimate groups, but especially it was families. saw husbands and wives and children together, praying together. And the Lord was just showing me that revival is going to come through the family unit in this final move of his spirit. And I think that's part of why the enemy is attacking it so hard, because he's trying to undermine what God is doing.

Greg Denning (45:49.719)
Okay.

Jenilee Samuel (45:58.135)
but in true God form, it's just fueling the momentum into what God is doing.

Greg Denning (46:04.128)
Wow, that's powerful and so true. Families are it. So, so true. I love it. Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing your message. How can people find you, follow you, learn more from you?

Jenilee Samuel (46:09.013)
Yeah, so true.

Jenilee Samuel (46:17.653)
Yeah, absolutely. If you want to just head to the easiest thing is javawithjempodcast.com. And I've got a number of freebies on there, whether they want to discover their spiritual gifts and those of their kids and how to begin to develop those. Or if they are interested in starting a podcast and they want to get some tools for that. All of that is over at javawithjempodcast.com. And yeah, it's the best way to reach me.

Greg Denning (46:42.007)
Awesome. Thank you so much.

Jenilee Samuel (46:43.956)
Absolutely.

Greg Denning (46:49.783)
if I can find that.

Jenilee Samuel (46:49.87)
Ha ha ha!