Freedom Within Boundaries: A Parent’s Guide to Raising Independent Children

It doesn't have to be as hard as you are making it. You allow independence and you teach. This requires you to be a teacher. You want your children to make bad decisions while they're 2, 3, 5, 7, 9. Your kids are so intelligent and they want to be happy. That's where the real learning takes place. Hey there, this is Greg Denning. We want to reach as many people as possible and help as many families as possible with these conversations. And we want to keep this podcast ad free forever. You can help us do that by subscribing on Spotify or Apple Podcast or wherever you listen your favorite platform and on YouTube and leave a quick review and share your favorite episodes with friends and family. It makes a big difference. Thank you for being a part of this very important movement. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We are your hosts Greg and Rachel Denning and I am very excited to talk about this topic today because it's so common, so relevant and because it's so difficult. Specifically today, we want to talk about something we have observed that occurs generally and we're saying good moms on purpose because these are moms that are good moms. The specific good people and good parents that want good outcomes. Exactly. But we want to talk about the differences in nuances that bring different outcomes. And the reason why we want to bring it up is because they're trying to get specific outcomes, but the things that are they are doing are actually producing the outcomes they don't want. When you learn to identify these things and to make those small shifts, those small changes, then you can actually get those outcomes that you want. And I think the biggest emphasis I want to make here is it doesn't have to be that hard. It doesn't have to be as hard as you are making it. And one of the things that we're going to talk a lot about today is like letting go. Stop trying to control everything. And the irony is the less you try to control, the more better outcomes you're going to get. Right. The more better. I like that. you're actually increasing and and this is why it's so challenging to do. This is such a a difficult concept because it seems counterintuitive. It seems like to go against everything you want. But when you stop trying to control and you let go of it and then use gentle influence, the more likely you are to get the outcome you want. The more you try to control or force the outcome, the less likely you are to actually achieve it. Right? But a lot of people think when we talk about letting letting go of control that that means then of course just anything goes and you know there's no structure. There's no framework. And I think that that's an important distinction because there is actually a very clear framework. There's you're working within very specific boundaries and this is my fortress and I cannot allow these certain things in. And so right now that just came to me that that's a good image inside the fort. We're fun. And it's fun. It's crazy. There's lots of freedom. Our kids can do whatever they want. But we are very strict and deliberate and deliberate about the walls of that fort and what is allowed within that fort. And so that's kind of the framework of of how I want to approach this is that if you try to be controlling in the fort, if you're like don't eat this, don't do that. Get up now, go to sleep now, this and that. And you're literally controlling every aspect of your children's life. That's when you produce the outcomes you don't want. But if you create a fort with strong walls and you're very strict about what comes in those walls, then you can have all kinds of freedom within and your children will learn to manage themselves, direct themselves because they have freedom within boundaries. Every human being wants to lead their own life. Every child starting at two or three years old wants to be the director of their own lives. Like it is born in us. And as soon as you start fighting with the little ones, we were having a conversation about this the other day. When you start fighting with the little ones, even at two or three, that's what produces what people call the terrible twos or the terrible threes, whatever. It's cuz they they now have this sense of like, no, I am an individual. I want to direct my own life. When children are small, they it's almost like they literally have no distinction of separation between them and their mother, right? They almost feel like they're one unit. And that makes sense because they were literally inside of you, right? And so it takes them time to realize, oh, I'm actually separate from my mother. And yet it's also a scary process of like, wait a second, I'm separate from my mother. You know, that's also terrifying and empowering at the same time. And so during those years especially, it's so critical for them to be able to exert that independence, but then also to become come back to you and feel like, okay, you're still here. You still love me. I'm still safe. You know, you are my support. You are my source of life, you know, and so that's a very important developmental age. We as good parents are trying to help them and so we control and when we try to control that creates the problems whether it's in toddlers or teens. Yeah. And and you see this, it's like a fundamental like the toddler is trying to walk through this little independence autonomy phase and it's so adorable because they need their parents so desperately, but they're like, I can do this myself. And teens are the same way. Just let me be free. I'll do whatever I want. You're like, if I let you walk out of the door, you'll be dead in a couple of days cuz you don't have the skill set and the knowledge to figure it out yet. But you desperately want the independence. Yeah. Yeah. And so this super powerful and the nuance is important here because as you and I are literally saying don't control your kids, we're also simultaneously saying you'd better control your environment. Yes. And and I guess we need to really clarify this of like what's what's in the home like no go on. There's only a few things. The walls of the fortress. Yeah. There's very few things. And the walls of the fortress are solid. And what comes through that gate? Yeah. Absolutely not allowed. every single thing through that gate is intentional. But what it does, and I hopefully this analogy can help pe parents picture this, is it provides this safe environment where our children are allowed complete freedom. And the reason why that's so important, because many of you might say, well, but that's not accurate because, you know, then they'll go into the world and blah blah blah. But the reason why it's important is because if we use the fitness analogy, if you use your muscles, if you exercise, they get stronger. And as our children exercise, the muscles of freedom, the muscles of decision making, the muscles of leading their own life within this safe fortress. Then as they grow up, those muscles get stronger and then they're able to use them more uh sagaciously, you know, like wisely. They're able to use them in out in the real world. But what happens is they begin to practice those muscles from a very young age of, oh, I get to decide what I'm going to wear and I get to decide when I'm going to eat and what I'm going to eat and I get to decide when I'm going to do my studies and where I'm going to do my studies and how I'm going to do my studies. They're constantly making decisions, hundreds and thousands of decisions. So by the time they become an teenager, they have a lot of practice making decisions and now they have the ability to make better decisions where what we see too often is parents who control every aspect and then by the time their kids are teenagers and they're getting ready to leave the house and make their own decisions, they have no decision-making muscle. They have not been allowed to practice. We've proven this model. It works. And again, you got to think long-term outcomes. What do I want? I want my children to become adults who make good choices on their own. Whether I'm there or not, whether anybody's there or not, like what what matters most is like what kind of decisions do they make when no one's watching. That's what matters. And and what happens with this control fight method that most people use is that the kid only makes good decisions when when somebody's watching, when they're afraid of getting caught or when you're there. As soon as you look away or as soon as you go away, man, they run to it. And so we want a different outcome. We want the kid. And so the method works. And so you have to trust it. And as you're giving, you set up the fortress. I love that you set up the fortress. You allow independence. And you teach. This requires you to be a teacher. Like this will not work if we are not teaching because over time the child has to understand why the framework's there. And we're constantly teaching them about those choices so that when they are old enough in their in their mid to late teens when they their brain is literally now just becoming capable of abstract ideas and we're constantly teaching that they're like okay I totally get it. I've been practicing. You've been telling me this. Now I get it. Now it's my own. In this case the fortress is not location dependent. Right. We we take the fortress with us essentially. So the fortress isn't a specific location. It's a way of being. But one of the other things I wanted to discuss because I think that this is important to understand too because you mentioned a little bit ago that we're worried about letting go of that control because our kids are going to XYZ essentially make a mistake, make poor choices, do the thing we don't want them to do. And I feel the need to emphasize that yes, that is going to happen. And in fact, yes, that is what you want to happen. You want your children to make bad decisions while they're 2, 3, 5, 7, nine, right? If they wait until they get older to make those mistakes for the first time, you know, for some that's once they move out, they go to college. 18, 19, 20, they're making decisions that are have horrendous consequences. And those are the same type of decisions that they were never allowed to make when they were young. And so now they're doing it and getting horrible outcomes because they were never allowed to direct their own lives. They were never allowed to decide what to eat and when to eat. They were always told what they had to do. And and what I want to emphasize here is we want them to learn through experience that if I miss a meal later on I'm going to be hungry, hangry, and then I'm going to maybe fight with my sister and then I'm going to We want to connect the dots for them. We want to be able to teach them that like, hey, look, you decided not to eat and whenever you don't eat, look how upset you get and now you're really upset and you would feel so much better if you had some food. But they're learning through experience because they chose rather than the controlling model is well but the good mom immediately is thinking I'm not going to deal with this. I don't want to have to deal with all the fighting stuff. So I'm going to force my kids to all sit down and all eat. I'm going to sit here and have a battle over what's on their plate so that they're not hungry later. Right? So that's the nuance that going back to the nuances. That's what I'm talking about because it seems very insignificant in some ways like whether my child learns on their own that they need to eat or whether I make them eat because I already know this or bedtime or I make them go to bed because I know they need sleep. But that's what I'm trying to say. That's the point. When our children are allowed to make those decisions on their own and then suffer the consequences of having made bad decisions, quote unquote, that's where the real learning takes place. So then guess what? It's a natural consequence. The kid, you guys, your kids are so smart. Your kids are so intelligent and they want to be happy. They want to be successful. They actually want the same things you want. Yeah. They really truly do. But they want to decide them for themselves because that's human nature. That's the psychology of the human being. They want to feel in charge of making those choices. And when you give them the freedom to make those choices on their own, especially over time, and especially if you have these conversations of helping them learn those things, of pointing it out, wow, you were up really late last night and now look how grumpy you are. If I were you, one, I'd go to bed earlier, or two, if I decide to stay up late, I'm going to have to work extra hard to have a good attitude because I'm going to be naturally grumpier. It's amazing. We've watched this with all of our kids. You help them learn how to process it and then they come you're like they they'll come and tell you like that was not worth it. I'm not doing that again. Exactly. And that that's one of the biggest challenges of parenting is that Yeah, you're right. We do know more. We have more life experience. But if we simply use that as an opportunity to exert more control over our children, we don't teach them, all they get is resentment. It's literally making decisions for them, right? So like, I know better, so I'm going to make this decision for you. that doesn't serve them and that doesn't help them learn. Yeah. It doesn't help them develop that part of their brain so that they they have the ability to learn those lessons and to understand the outcomes of the choices they make. So, I think this is a perfect spot to teach this principle. Human beings naturally resist. And so, if I grab you and I say, "Rachel, you're my wife. We're doing this. We're going over here." You're just going to keep resisting, resisting. and resenting. Let that sink in everybody. So, as long as you pull, they pull back. Please, everybody listening, like let that sink into your soul. As long as you are pulling or pushing, they are going to pull back or push back. Yeah. It's just natural. It's automatic resistance. It's true. I don't have to fight. And when you remove that, everything changes. This child's like, "Okay, I don't have to fight. I don't have to fight." And constantly, here's the important element. If I'm setting a crap example, like this will this will fail, right? But the the way this magic works is they get to choose and every single day they're watching us do good, cool, exciting, wonderful, positive things. And so naturally, they're like, I want some of that. I want I want the goodness. I want to follow the example. I want to participate in all those good things that are going on. Instead of having to control them or force them into these things, I'm I'm allowing them to make their own choices and constantly inviting them to participate in all the good things. Moms are afraid especially and some dads are afraid that if they allow their children to make their own choices that the natural default is going to be complete and utter chaos. children break breaking things, climbing on the table, like swinging from the chandeliers, like you know, whatever. But this is what we're trying to talk about and with this analogy you were giving initially. Yeah. Because you're pulling and they're pulling and pulling back and forth and so as soon as you let go, they're like freedom and now chaos reigns. But what we're trying to say is that that might be the initial case, but over time when you use these strategies of respect, and I'm not talking about this gentle parenting, blah blah blah, whatever, where you're like, "Is it okay if I touch you now? I'm going to put on it. Is that okay? I'm not talking about that. Is it okay if I ask you to clean up your own dish?" I'm not talking about that. That is not what I am talking about at all. I am talking about authoritative respect because you can be very authoritative and respectful at the same time. You know what I mean? Authoritative versus authoritarian. There is a big difference. In fact, you can even look up there's like four main types of parenting. One of them is authoritarian, which is the kind of tyrannical rule. But authoritative is no, you are an authority figure and you do set rules and you do have expectations, but it's not done in an authoritarian way, right? It's done in a way that super respectful. Yeah. Still recognizes them as a human being with the freedom to make choices and and respect provides respect. We teach that that's the point. The point is we're respecting you and we expect you to respect us. And that's another key ingredient of this. It's mutual respect. That's where the authoritiveness works because not only are we respecting our children, but we are expecting them to respect us. And they do. And they do. And that's where I was going with my thing talking about at first, like you've got the tugof-war going on and you think as soon as I let go, it's going to be chaos and they're going to run all over and make a mess and ruin things. But once that kind of wears off and there's no longer this tugofwar and you start showing mutual respect, I respect you and I expect you to respect me. And that means don't climb on my table. And I think this is where most of us will yell like get off the table. How rude and inconsiderate. You don't ever walk on the table and that's it, right? Or if you get up there, you're timeout sp whatever punishment. Instead, you're like, he goes up there and instead of you losing your gasket, you grab him. Okay, come here, buddy. And then I'm going to sit him down. I'm be like, hey, buddy. Okay, look at the bottom of your feet. Like, let And I'll play a game. So, I'm a six-year-old boy. I'm like, "Where has this foot been today?" And he's I ran over there and went outside. You were out on the lawn. What What happens on the lawn there? Yeah. The dogs pee out there and and poop and and then then there's all and the birds poop. Okay. And that's all your feet and then you come in with your feet with all these little invisible germs and you jump up on the table. What happens on the table? What do we do on the table? Like that's where we put our food. So all this disgustingness is what? And so I teach them and the kids they're like right I get it and they'll remember that and respect it. When we take that time to articulate it for a child so that they understand the reasoning behind it then it makes sense to them and then once it makes sense you've literally created these neural connections in their brain and now they decide not to do it because it makes sense to their brain. That's the power of what we're trying to talk about here. We want all of these things to happen organically and naturally. We want them to make all of these connections in their brain so that they choose on their own to do the things that we want or don't want them to do because they understand for themselves. That's where the real power lies because you no longer have to be that controlling aspect. You're this mentor. You're this guide. You're a teacher. you're an authoritative figure that cares about them rather than only wants to control them to get some sort of outcome that they don't even understand. Right. Exactly. What you're trying to achieve or why. And as long as you keep pulling, they'll keep resisting. And as they get bigger, it actually will lead to rebellion. So, the vast majority of teenage rebellion, and this is going to be hard to hear, is literally caused by your desire to control them. Well, it's I Yeah, it's caused by your parenting tactics or strategies. I will often watch parents with young children you and I'm talking about five and younger, you know, and even babies and sometimes I will see them and it's so strange to me cuz it's almost like they don't even see their children. They don't even see them as humans as humans. It's like they don't actually look at them or listen to them or notice them or really pay attention to them or really engage with them. And when I learned to switch my parenting so that I actually engaged with the child as a human being and as much as possible, as much as was age appropriate, talked to them, explained to them what we were doing and why we were doing it and what was expected of them and gave them some examples. The natural state and I include teenagers, yep, of children who have their needs met is happiness. That is their natural state. They are pleasant and joyful and fun to be around and they are cooperative. They they go along with what you need. They're curious. They're ambitious. Yeah. That is the natural state. So if any of your children are not that way, and this is hard to hear, it's because you're doing something or not doing something that's throwing them off their natural state. Every child is different. And every and this is another thing, every child requires different parenting strategies. We cannot use a one-sizefits-all. Not all of your strategies are going to work with every child. But even for quote that kid, you just have to pick a different strategy. And I promise it all works. So I I really got to emphasize this because it's so profound and so important. If if your child's grumpy, resistant, angry, unhappy, like bitter, destructive, there's a need that's not being met. usually mental, emotional or physical. Well, it's physiological. That's where you start. Our children choose when they go to bed and when they get up and they always have. And that is not controlled by us. It's controlled by them because they are learning how to direct their own lives to control themselves to learn how much sleep they need and when, you know, when they naturally wake up and when they should go to bed. They have to learn that stuff about themselves. And when can they? If we're constantly controlling them and making them go to bed when they're not ready to go to bed, have you ever tried to make yourself go to bed when you weren't ready? It's like miserable because you lay there forever awake saying like, "I'm not ready to go to sleep. It doesn't work." If kids are unhappy or they're grumpy or this and usually the the cause for those things is generally something physiological. They're hungry. They're tired. That's where we usually start our coaching clients with. Like that's that's where you begin. If your kid is acting like that, and unfortunately we've been trained as parents in this effort of control of like, "Oh my gosh, my children's acting up. That means I have to discipline them. I need to enforce some consequence on their behavior. They're crying. They're upset. That means I need to do something." And we're like, "No, you don't. Except maybe give them a snack, right? Oh, you're hungry, you're tired, you're upset. Here you go. Here's a snack." And it needs to of course be something that's nourishing for their body because giving them more sugar is only exacerbating the problem. They need like a broughtwurst or a steak or a hamburger or some meat or protein, right? That balances their blood sugar. That's a whole another level we could go into is the blood sugar and insulin levels that are contributing. So true. Cuz a lot of these a lot of good moms are like, "No, I'm I make sure my kids are eating and I'm giving them like sandwiches and bagels and orange juice." Which is all not good. All those things are not good. So you think you're feeding your kid and you're actually tanking their health, the nuances, right? And this is where it can feel so challenging and overwhelming sometimes because there's so many levels of the nuances of things, but that's another topic. And one of the other things I always did to to prevent the meltdowns, and I know moms hate this, is that I would allow my children to snack all day pretty much because I'm not in their body and I don't know when they need food and I don't know how much they've been running and playing and using their brain. When I allow them to make the decision about what about when they're going to eat, they are so much happier and healthier and healthier. Right? Cuz if you Okay, stop. If I I control the fortress, of course, so I don't have anything available to them. Only healthy snacks. Only healthy snacks are available. But they get to decide when they eat those healthy snacks. And it's it's free range. And and I can hear you like, "No, they'll eat so much." Yeah, they probably need it. Yeah. Now, they won't. And if you've created an unhealthy relationship with food by trying to control it, which is this, let this sink in. If I try to control food, it creates an unhealthy relationship with food. So then your kids are like they're sneaking food and they're overeing because what they're doing is they're resisting the control. So you remove the controls and then they'll just eat when they're hungry, when their body needs it, and they stop when they're full. I think this is important. Couple points. good moms wanting to be good moms and wanting to do things they've heard about or maybe their mom did or something. They do all this extra work, sometimes three meals a day, like you're making it way harder than it needs to be. And and I want to emphasize this. You can get the outcome you want, which is healthy, physically healthy family that eats well and really great relationships. you can get that connection time without all the extra work. I'll make dinner sometimes and some of our kids will be like, "Oh, I'm not hungry." I'm going to respect that because I respect the child. And if they tell me they're not hungry, I'm going to listen to them and I'm not going to make them eat because well, we're having dinner. Okay, that's gigantic. Yeah, we are sitting down as a family having dinner. You will eat if you're not hungry. What kind of craziness is that? Why are we force-feeding a human body that is satiated already or doesn't need food right now? It is so crazy to me. Parents are literally battling with their children, hurting their relationship because they're trying to get their kid to eat vegetables that actually aren't even good for them. And that's just one little thing, but also significant. This is huge. No, it is. And also the idea of finishing your food because you should when instead of learning to listen to your own body and teach your kids to listen to theirs. Teach your kids to listen to their body. I should stop eating when I'm full whether or not my plate is empty or not. Exactly. When all of us are allowed to make our own choices and have the freedom to pursue and do the things we want within this fortress of safety, the natural state is happiness. This is where I reach through the microphone. I put my hands on your shoulder, shake you a little bit, and say, "Hey, stop right now. Whatever you're doing, stop and hear this. If there are any battles going on in your family at all, stop and re-evaluate what's going on." And I know this is hard to hear. I'm not throwing you under the bus, you're probably the cause of it. Unconsciously, inadvertently, being a good parent trying to do good things, you're actually causing the very thing you don't want. And I have to stop and ask myself, wait a minute, here's here's my child and here's a plate of food. Am I more concerned about what's happening in my child's body or what's happening on the plate? Honestly, ask yourself, and when you say it out loud, that sounds so stupid. Why do I keep making such a big deal of the plate? Like, let's go with the child. This principle applies across the board. So, I have to reemphasize cuz um some of you might be crying while you're listening to this episode. There may have been tears shed and we're not trying I've been there. Yeah, me too. We're not trying to make you feel bad. In fact, I want to deeply honor your goodness. Like the fact that you are a good person trying to raise good kids with good outcomes. That's awesome. That's worth celebrating for the rest of our lives to celebrate good moms doing good things. I love that. simultaneously, we also have to say, "Hey, you're unconsciously or naively doing things that are causing the very problems you're trying to avoid." And it's it's not about you. It doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't make you a bad mom. It's has nothing to do with you or your self-worth or anything else. It is literally a skill. So in a way I see us as let's say tennis coaches even though you and I know nothing about tennis but you know for this analogy we're just here trying to say hey here's the nuance of things. If you do it a little bit like this and you move a little bit like that and you stop doing that your tennis game is going to be better. That's all we want to do with parents with moms. We're trying to say, "Hey, you're a good person and your worth doesn't change by how well you play tennis, but you're lacking some parenting skills that are causing the outcomes you don't want. Let's improve the skills. Let's change the technique a little bit and you're going to get the outcomes you want." Yeah. So the emphasis today is just kind of examine your house, your life, your parenting, all everything that's going on, your whole family dynamics, pay attention to the battles. Wherever you are exerting control, stop and figure out a different approach to persuade, influence, change the fortress, mentor. Yeah. just totally transform the way you're doing it so that you're no longer controlling or attempt to control human beings because you really can't control people. You can try, but it's only going to create resistance and you can control and here's the thing that most parents don't realize until it's too late. You can control your children. You can get them to do what you want their entire childhood, but that does not mean that the and and I would say almost with 100% of cases, there's underlying resentment that's building. Y because no one likes to be controlled. You can't change the long-term results of that underlying resentment. And at some point, it will manifest itself. And most likely in adulthood. Well, and in your grandchildren and in your grandchildren, you may think, "Oh, my strategies are working great." But unless the relationship is there with your child in the way you want it to be, then your strategy is not really working because we have been studying it so long, I no longer can deny that, right? Like I to me it's clear as day there is a direct connection to the way you're parenting and the control you're exerting and these mental and emotional issues that your children are struggling with. Ex. Exactly. So even if you're like, "Yeah, look at my results. Checking all the boxes." If your kid is not genuinely happy and healthy, mind, body, and spirit competent. Yeah, competence is a part of prepared like genuinely truly thriving. If your kid is confident and confident and ready to succeed and you both you and the child feel this, man, this was so short. You know, those those 20 years passed. so quickly. I wish they could extend. Then you know you're in a good spot. But if you're like, "Good riddance. 18 years was enough. On your birthday, you're out and you're getting my foot in your backside. Good luck. Love you." That kind of crap that's No, the battle shouldn't be there. It's It's evidence that you've been controlling and you're still trying to control. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Love you guys. Thanks for listening. This stuff matters so much. Um, I can't I can't think of any work that's more important than trying to guide and mentor a little human being through all the techniques and skills. This stuff matters so much and it's worth every effort. If you have specific questions, reach out to us. We'd love to help. Love you guys. Reach upward.

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