#274 Being a Good Person Does NOT Make You a Good Parent: It’s a VERY Specific Skill You MUST Learn

Greg & Rachel Denning (00:02.232)
Ladies and gentlemen, I forgot what I was gonna say. Welcome to the, I'm like, wait, what podcast is this? Welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We are your hosts, Greg and Rachel Denning. If I'm here, obviously it's not the Be The Man podcast. Right, I'm like, wait a minute, I'm looking at my wife, now I'm distracted because I was looking at my wife, she's such a babe, I'm like, what am I supposed to say? no, how do I start this to the point, Greg, get to the point. Okay, I can't talk. So there I was.

Pre Rachel so you can imagine my life was empty and dark and dreary no meaning or purpose but I was in the area that's for a different episode this the wandering lost aimlessness of singleness and I mean I mean I distracted you with that comment so now you want me to go back to my story yeah so there it was again

university and I had a mentor. I was studying pre -med. I love medicine. I love the human body. I wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon because I'd spent a lot of time with doctors and surgeons repairing my body as a teenager. I thought, man, I want to be orthopedic surgeon. So I'm going along that track and then one of my mentors at the university pulled me aside and he's like, man, you really need to, you need to be a teacher.

And I was like, yeah, I love teaching. by my early 20s, I had fallen in love with teaching and just the thrill of sharing ideas with somebody that changed their lives. I love that. So I dove deep into pedagogy and kind of shifted my major and just got on this track of intensely studying pedagogy, which pedagogy is just the science of effective teaching.

And so I got in this path and I ended up being a teacher for a private institution for several years. And one of the best teachers I've ever seen, ever, he was just phenomenal, world class and had taught all over the world. He came in, he was doing a small training with us, a group of teachers. And he said, effective teaching will eliminate the vast majority of problems in the classroom.

Greg & Rachel Denning (02:29.302)
And man...

What he said struck me with such force and power. And at first you don't want to believe it. Right. He says look if you're a world class teacher then a lot of the discipline problems or the know the troubled students or the difficult students the problems in the classroom with the kids messing around goofing off fighting whatever not paying attention sleeping throwing things the rebellion all of a sudden he's like the majority of problems in the classroom are removed when a teacher is

really good.

And I realized that was true because I'd observed in studying teachers, I had observed that the really great teachers, like the captivating speakers and teachers, they grabbed the attention of the most difficult kids. And they didn't have the discipline problem. Yeah, they weren't walking around, hey, knock that off. Hey, I'm going to call your parents. Hey, you have to go talk to the principal. There was no threatening. Threatening. they weren't going around with a carrot and stick like everybody else does. So I'd observe other teachers and they were

constantly, know, discipline, discipline, discipline, like they spent the most of their time dealing with the few students who were causing those problems and then they would give, they would give, you know, classes about how to effectively handle discipline in the classroom where the phenomenal teachers didn't have to deal with it. It was a non -issue because they were so good.

Greg & Rachel Denning (03:59.204)
And then I realized. Okay, so you started this story and I was sitting here thinking like, where is he going with this? What is the point? How does this connect to what we're talking about today? But that right there makes the connection because what we are talking about today is the truth.

that effective parenting removes most of the discipline problems in the home. Or parenting problems, right? So being really good as a teacher and a mentor in your own home, parenting effectively removes. Eliminates, prevents, removes almost all the need for discipline, all the behavior problems, all the issues that come up. Most of the things that parents are looking for answers for.

Like, how do I punish? How do I discipline? How do I give timeouts? How do I do this? They become a non -issue when you become really effective at parenting and mentoring. Whoa. What you just said is straight up crazy talk. It's huge, though. It's huge. And it's true. And it's true despite the fact that many people listening to this don't want to believe it, despite the fact that I didn't want to believe it. All right.

But the longer I think about it and study it, which has been at least since I was a teenager because of my own experience as a teenager, I started thinking about it. you guys, anyone who knows my story knows I was a rebellious teenager. I did a lot of partying and rebelling because, well, I wanted to understand why. Like, I was curious, like, why am I doing this? Why do I choose to do these things? And I wanted to know.

what was contributing to my decisions. And so that put me on the path of studying human psychology, studying parenting, studying the ideas behind it. And the more I have studied that, the more I realize that, yes, it is true. Despite the fact for the majority of parents, that's a very painful reality to finally realize, because I had to finally realize that.

Greg & Rachel Denning (06:11.81)
my ineffectiveness as a parent was causing my parenting problems. was causing the problems with my children. was causing or contributing to all the problems I was having with my kids. Right. Came from my ineffective parenting. Now, why is that so painful? When we say things like that, and this is bold. Actually, I want to back up a little bit. There are books.

End books, end books, and classes and seminars, entire courses on parenting made by these parents and all of it, the whole.

Greg & Rachel Denning (06:50.266)
Content is on how to effectively discipline and we're saying wait a minute if you become a really effective parent You don't even have to deal with that stuff. it's a non -issue We don't have to walk through all these role -playing and all the scenarios and we don't have to like what about this and what about this? about this all of those things? curfews? How do I handle timeouts and spanking and tantrums? Grounding and all those things just they go away

And you no longer need to read a book or take a class or get a course or ask your advice how to do those things because they're no longer part of your family experience. Well, and the interesting thing too is that it becomes this sort of intuitive wisdom where you, and I obviously would add God, and intuition and the universe become the source. You don't need the book because you are the book. You are the source. You can tap into this intuition that helps you know.

what the right thing is in the moment for this child and their unique needs, right? And so that becomes, at least for me, the guide instead of wondering which technique and hack do I apply. a skill though. Because I you, there's intuition and there's this knowingness that's awesome, but it has to be combined with a skill. A very specific skill I use the word wisdom, because wisdom to me is the culmination of...

skills and experience and a proper application of knowledge and skill. Exactly. So it's so profound. And I realize what we're saying is bold. It's very bold and crazy. might not be very popular. In fact, it's not going to be common. This is what we're saying is rare. Because the vast majority of people out there, parenting, sports, whatever, they're going to be, well, try this technique and do this technique. And this is how you handle when they do this, when they do that. But go back to me with the classroom. If I'm standing at the front of the classroom,

And I'm sitting there blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm doing the Charlie Brown thing. He's up there in front, blah, blah. And let's just say picture me in front of the classroom and I'm just a boring, I'm boring. I'm up there just a talking head of boringness. Doesn't matter what the subject is. Because you might say, well, it was the subject. My kid didn't like the subject. No way. I've come across amazing, spectacular teachers in

Greg & Rachel Denning (09:16.436)
every subject. I've met teachers that make math look like magic and art and science and I struggled with English and English grammar and you know those things and I had English teachers that awakened this love of learning for me in the hardest subject and I was just captivated by them sharing their stuff. So it wasn't the subject, it was the teacher. So picture me again in your heads. I'm at the front.

And it's not the kids because... Well that's what I'm going right now. Because I'm up there and blah blah blah blah and now picture the classroom. There's 30 students in there. They start to doze off. Some of them doze off. Others are so bored out of their minds. They're moving and wiggling. They're just fidgeting, twitching. They're like, I'm going crazy. So they start throwing spitballs and others start getting on their phones and others start passing notes and others start like pranking each other. And there's like they're just back there talking or...

whatever and they just they're getting into trouble. Every time they're disconnecting they pull out their stuff and they're working on something else. They become very dishonest. They become very deceptive. They pull out the book of you know the textbook of whatever subject I'm covering and in front of it they have they're either writing notes or drawing or they're working on homework from another class. And so it's all this deception all this stuff and all of it all of that all the misbehavior is a reaction to my ineffective teaching.

Right? So now let's go back to the home. If in my home, I'm not effective and really good at teaching, coaching, mentoring, connecting, trust, modeling, all these these good things, explaining, articulating, expectations, systems, habits.

If I'm not running my home really well, just like the classroom, now what are my own children gonna start doing? man, they're bored. They're frustrated. mischievous. They're mischievous. Yeah, they get irritated and frustrated, which causes a lot of it. They're throwing tantrums. They're fighting. Talking back. In disrespectful way. They're fighting with their siblings. They're fighting with us. The little boys become destructo zones. mean, they're just, ugh. They're not listening. They're not doing what they're asked.

Greg & Rachel Denning (11:42.446)
They're not eating the food you prepare and they're not like on and on and on. we can, we can go there and just think of all the parenting problems. start sneaking. Yes. And like they're just looking for ways to entertain themselves. Or if we're too controlling, now they start looking for ways to rebel. And the only reason they're looking for ways to rebel is because we're trying to control them. No human being wants to be controlled. So the comparison there, I believe is absolutely accurate and

True, but the painful part of that, and it's true for a teacher, but it's definitely true for a parent. The painful part of that is that we are literally, as the parents, causing or contributing to all the problems we're finding in our home with our children. Ouch. How can you say that, Rachel? It's difficult and it's painful to hear. Why? OK, this is I wanted to go. Everything was built up for this moment.

I think my perspective, at least the way I see things, here's why we misunderstand that. Because when you say, if you're failing to do a great job as a parent, then you're actually causing or contributing to the own problems you're dealing with. So then it comes back to, it's me again. It's my fault. It's all me. And we misinterpret that. say, I'm the problem. And we misinterpret that to think, OK, I'm a bad person. I'm a failure.

I suck at this. I should have never had kids. And we at that point where we say, it's actually the parent contributing to the problems in parenting where we misinterpret and make a big mess of it all. Which is natural, normal, human nature. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just normal. So here's what I want to do right now. I want to say this so clearly. you're driving or riding your bike, whatever, just pull over and write this down, take some notes. I want you to internalize this. Parenting is a

very specific skill like tennis.

Greg & Rachel Denning (13:47.714)
Well, I would even say parenting is built of multiple skills. Okay, so right. It's several skills. but it might be combined into one. Yeah, tennis and pickleball and paddle ball and like, but whatever we're gonna go with. I'm just making a comparison here. It's a very specific thing. So I suck at tennis. I personally, just in real life, this is not hypothetical. I really suck at tennis. I could misinterpret that to be like,

I'm not athletic. I'm not good person. Yeah, I'm a bad person. And so I go out on a tennis court and I hit a ball and it just goes flying into the road, hits a car, suddenly I'm upset. I'm such a failure. And so you come over and you say, Greg, you caused all those problems because you suck at tennis. Like you hit that ball way over there. You're ineffective at tennis. Yeah, like you're not good at tennis.

At that moment, I could be like, I'm not a good person. I'm terrible. I'm a nobody. This is horrible. Or I could be like, I don't know how to use this racket yet to hit the ball the right way. It's a very, very specific skill. And I'm like, I'm going to go out every single day with my racket and this ball, and I'm going to keep practicing until I can hit that ball.

Right back across. But even more importantly, because in some ways, think sometimes parents intuitively do that, since we're using this as an analogy here. They will go and practice. They go and they are like, I'm going to practice disciplining. I'm going to practice this. I'm going to practice that. But the key here We'll straighten deck chairs on the Titanic. Yeah, the key here is you have to actually get a good coach.

a good mentor, someone who knows how to play the game of tennis, in this example, to show you how to practice the correct way so that you can actually get the outcomes and results that you want. So now we take this back to parenting. So OK, but the point is, I want to emphasize this for a minute so they get the message we're trying to share here. Too many people believe that if you're a good person, that just automatically makes you a good parent.

Greg & Rachel Denning (16:13.068)
And that parenting just comes naturally. It's not true. You can be an incredible human being. Yeah. And you can be great at a lot of things. Terrible at tennis. Exactly. You can also be an incredible human being and just be terrible at parenting. You just don't have the skills, just like you don't have tennis skills. You just don't know how to a racket. Use a racket. That is what we're trying to tell people. I struggled with that concept so much because I knew incredible men that I respected so much. They were amazing leaders.

teachers, businessmen, and these men were amazing. I admired them so much and they sucked at parenting and I couldn't put it together. Yeah, for longest time. Why are their kids just failing and bombing and like it's like this man that I admire and respect so much, his kids are all bombing one after another. I'm like the common denominator here is him. Like what's off? And it wasn't until years later I'm like

Because parenting is a very specific skill. He was great at business. He was great at leadership. He was great in the community. He did not have the skill to lead his own children. Specific. So it didn't make him a bad man. Didn't make him a hypocrite. He just was not good at tennis. Yeah. In the metaphor. Exactly. And we have to know that. So that's the framework we want parents to have to understand that if you're having problems in your home,

with your children, the reason why is because of the things you are doing or not doing. Just like if you're having problems playing tennis, it's because of things you're doing or not doing. Like it's a direct connection. There's no other, you can't blame the other player. You can't blame the ball. You can't blame the racket. You are making, you're doing it. You're the one playing the game, right? So it comes back to you.

It is exactly the same with parenting. I'm on the tennis court hitting the ball every which way but back on my opponent's side and I'm like, it's the government, the IRS. This ball just has a mind of its own. It's just a rebellious ball. I need a different racket. But that's what we do with our children because of the fact that, yes, we're actually dealing with another human being. there's a variable involved there. Our children not balls that we just hit wherever we want.

Greg & Rachel Denning (18:33.23)
There is a variable. They not objects. Exactly. They're not objects. They are not inanimate. Yeah. you pick up a rock and you set it over there and the rock stays there. Exactly. Right? And in fact, some ways, if we want to continue expanding this analogy, this metaphor we started with, I think in some ways they become the other player. There's someone we're learning to play the game with so that we can get the outcomes and results we want. We want to play the game of tennis. We want to hit it back and forth. We want to have a fun time.

But unless we learn to work with our children instead of controlling them, which is what we're going to talk about a lot today, we're not going to be getting the outcomes we want. We're going to be frustrated and overwhelmed and stressed, wondering why parenting is so hard. And it's because we just haven't learned the skills of playing the game. Because parenting is a very specific skill you need to learn. So.

I'm trying to serve my opponent I mean we're just going on with this I'm trying to serve my opponent and I never get the ball across how long will my opponent stay over there waiting to play tennis with me yeah they're like I'm you haven't got the ball once in my court I'm out of here and our kids do the same I want to touch on something else real quickly before we dive into that there are so many and I'm thinking and I'm not trying to be mean or

or rude or disparaging, but there are so many parenting experts and very, very famous, very well known. And their entire platform are tactics and strategies for discipline and handling situations. And to me, I look at that, like, all you're doing is straightening deck chairs on a Titanic. what'll happen is parents will read their books.

and take their courses and watch all their videos and do all the things. They read the scriptures together and they pray together and they go to church and they do this and they check all the boxes and then their children don't turn out the way they hope to. More importantly their children make decisions that are destructive to their own well -being, the child's well -being, and they wonder why? Where did we go wrong?

Greg & Rachel Denning (20:48.121)
I did all the things. I did all the things you were supposed to do. I even went through the courses and the classes and I checked all the boxes. I did all the little disciplining techniques that I was told and it still didn't work out. And that's because that's not the approach. Right. Like the last thing I want to do as a parent is become an expert at disciplining because if I have to perfect my disciplining I have a much bigger problem.

I've got to go upstream and change things so there's no discipline problems. Like I want to emphasize this and try to articulate it clearly enough that listeners just you get it. Like if we do a phenomenal job at parenting there's no discipline problem downstream. And one of the best ways I've heard this explained came from the Anatomy of Peace which is a book that focuses on

helping this framework of helping things to go right, they have a whole pyramid and most of the pyramid, 75 % or more of the pyramid is focused on helping things to go right and the very top piece of the pyramid is fixing what's gone wrong. That's what we're talking about. Where the example you're just giving talks about how most parents spend their time trying to fix what's gone wrong. I'm gonna discipline, I'm gonna punish, I'm going to...

ground, I'm going to put you in a timeout, I'm going to all of these things. They're literally trying to be experts in that. Yeah, they're trying to be experts in the disciplining when we're like, no, no, Yeah, have some strategy for that. Get good at that. But that should be where you spend the least amount of time because the rest of your time is spent helping things to go right so that those issues don't become a problem. And it's true. It's real. Like, people might think we're, like, this is a pipe dream.

But it's not. It's a reality. We have real results. Real results for 20 years. And not just us. We're not just the anomalies here. We're the only ones in the world. I don't even know how many of parents. Yes, they're rare. They're more rare. It is more rare. But the people we have learned from are the ones who have. Well, and the people we've taught. They go ahead and do this. the same with clients. Our coaching clients come back like, wow. This actually works. Wow.

Greg & Rachel Denning (23:08.602)
our family dynamics, co - everything is completely transformed. All the stuff we were struggling with is now no longer an issue at all. that's the point. So let me restate that. Many parents without knowing, and again, we're not throwing anybody on a bus. We're not making anybody feel bad. It's just we've never taught. As people, as parents, we were never taught this. And it's still not being taught in society. But the vast majority of parents are spending 85 % of their times

fixing things that have gone wrong and maybe 15 % of time, you know, helping these go right. We're saying today, do the opposite. Spend the vast majority of your time helping things go right. And if you do that, then you only have to spend a tiny part of your time fixing the little things that get off here and there a little bit. It's just tiny adjustments. we say it another way. Become an absolute expert.

in helping things go right so that there are no discipline problems instead of seeking to become an expert in disciplining because there's so many problems and it's never any problems and drinking the Kool -Aid of other parents saying, yeah, it's always problems. Your kids will always rebel. Toddlers will always be tough. Teens, the teen years are terrible. Blah, blah, blah, blah, all this crap. They just spout on and on and on. And if you drink that Kool -Aid and you buy into that philosophy, then you're like, man, I better become amazing at disciplining. Why not instead?

become so good at your true job as a parent that this one comes. parent mentoring, essentially, to differentiate it from just the idea of parenting in general. But I want to emphasize though, because going back to this analogy with the tennis and the fact that some of the things we've said can make people feel bad because we're saying you're the problem. You're the one causing the problems that you don't want in your family relationships.

The other way of viewing this, because again, you could take it as I'm a bad person. I'm no good. I'm failing. It's all my I feel guilty. I feel shame. But the other way of seeing it is viewing it as an opportunity and actually as a wonderful thing. Because in reality, if you're the one causing the problems, guess what? That means you're also the solution. That's a big deal. That's a huge plus.

Greg & Rachel Denning (25:35.45)
for you. It doesn't mean you're just doomed to...

unhappy family or rotten kids or because it's bad luck you know or because it's completely out of your control. The good news is there is way more in your control than you formerly were aware of. Now that doesn't mean it's a hundred percent in your control. That doesn't mean you're gonna have perfect outcomes. That doesn't mean that it's gonna change overnight because unfortunately parenting is also connected to our habits and our way of thinking and our beliefs and our you know

There's a lot that goes into it that needs to be addressed. But the good news is this is an opportunity. It's an opportunity for you to actually take back control. And we're going to talk about control. I'm not talking about controlling, like being controlling. Take back individual control, or even better word is responsibility, of saying, have power to create change in myself.

And in the way that I interact with my children so that I can get more of the outcomes I actually want. Instead of unknowingly sabotaging our relationships by participating in these drama triangles and all these other things that are going on that I don't have awareness of. That's causing the problems I don't want. I can stop that. I can change that. I can be a force for...

good and for change. And can create a total transformation in the family. Yeah. So amazing. What's interesting and maybe ironic about this is we are not talking about like inherently bad parents that are negligent, that don't care, that like whatever there are some really truly bad parents. We're talking about good people who are striving to be good parents and they genuinely want the best outcomes for the kids.

Greg & Rachel Denning (27:34.744)
And they're intentionally taking actions to try to get those outcomes, but they're not getting the outcomes they want, and they're wondering why. What's happening? Ineffective strategies or ineffective skills or lack of skills. So it is a good parent trying to have a good relationship and get a good outcome with a kid. But the skill, the strategy, the technique, it's missing. so.

No matter how hard they try and they've quote tried everything and all their best efforts and they're praying and they're fasting and all everything they do just doesn't work because a little bit farther upstream it's still ineffective. And if we can if we can get up to that point and make the adjustment there then the cascade effect or the trickle effect everything starts to happen and it can happen very quickly.

I recently received a message from somebody I had coached maybe a year or two ago.

unbelievable transformation in their family because she had implemented the strategies I taught her into her marriage first. Well actually into herself first. the very you work harder on yourself than you do anything else. That's number one. let's say hey you got to work on you then you got to work on your marriage and then together

You guys work on your family dynamics, your culture, all that stuff. And like it was, I was just sitting here, this is all giddy and just filled with excitement and joy and gratitude, complete transformation in their family because these things were implemented. Like what? Well, and it was, there was, okay, you guys, I get to work with people who...

Greg & Rachel Denning (29:25.164)
unfortunately let it go so far that there's suicide attempts.

Greg & Rachel Denning (29:33.306)
Drugs, violence, crime, like some extreme stuff, sad stuff. And this was one of those cases where it had gone very, far. And they reached out to me like just in total desperation and pain. Like, hey, let's make some transformation. And so it has all shifted into very, very good places, happy places, joyful places. It's amazing.

It was so exciting. So this stuff just works. But it cannot be the, I gotta emphasize this again, I'm gonna say this so many times until it just sinks in. It cannot be the little tips and tricks and tactics of, when your kid talks back, you do this, and you discipline him or.

This, know, any attempt to say, this is the best way to ground your children. This is the most effective way to do timeouts or spanking. anything along like the very best strategy for grounding is still a crap sandwich because it should be completely unnecessary. haven't grounded our children. We haven't used timeouts.

We have no discipline. Early on, we did some timeouts. Because we didn't know any better. But as soon as we, OK, because it was ignorance and lack of skills, as soon as we got the skills, like, And so even from the very beginning, OK, I'm all fired up. Because I know people are saying, OK, this sounds great. What do we do? What are these strategies? What are these skills? Like, how do we do what you're talking about? That's what they want to know. Tell us, Rachel. Did you need to finish something?

Even early on, just felt like at the very, very beginning, we adopted Kaia. I just felt like, no, I don't want to do any grounding or timeouts. The timeout thing I thought was retarded. Well, and I did that.

Greg & Rachel Denning (31:45.068)
Especially early on because I didn't again. I didn't know any different So when we're talking about these things we're we're speaking from first -hand experience because we started out as normal parents You know, it's not like we were given any special skills right off the get -go We had to not come with an amazing manual. No, it did not We brought her home when she was five days old and we had to learn from the beginning. We do nothing

So what we have learned has come from trial and error and experimentation and research and study. actually, our focus has always been on what gets the results we want. Because results don't lie. But not only gets the results we want, but also gets them in the framework of maintaining a

relationship with each child for the long run because I know you know a lot of people will use yelling or timeouts or these different things because they quote -unquote work but there is an exchange rate that for that there's a cost and that cost is often one under development of the child because they don't learn ultimately as parents what we want our children to learn is how to manage and lead themselves

That's been one of our primary outcomes. We're not here to tell you what to do. We're here to teach you how to lead yourself. it comes at a cost to the relationship. Because inevitably, for you as a parent to enforce any sort of discipline or punishment on a child, it requires force. It requires a form of force. And any time you have to use force, you are weakening the relationship with your child.

Truly strong relationship of trust and this we know this when we work with adults Like if you have to force someone or manipulate them to get them to do what you want That's not healthy and the same is true with children people don't fully understand that your children are just Little people and they deserve the same respect that you would treat any adult and so if you have to force them you admire and respect exactly So if you have to force them to do something

Greg & Rachel Denning (33:59.514)
you have to threaten them. In order to enact some sort of disciplinary measure, you are damaging the long -term relationship, which is why then children and teens and adults grow up to resent their parents or to not have good relationships with them because of the tactics that were used on them while they were young that they still have buried emotions about, right? Like, it can get quite deep and complicated here. exactly. I'm picturing in my mind.

Like this foundation that every time you yell, every time you threaten, every time you manipulate, every time you try to force or control, it's like taking a sledgehammer and just smacking the foundation. You get a foundation stone and you just hit it and hit it. And it might be little chips coming out, little pieces breaking off, whatever. You're like, no, it's still good. But it's like the pounding of the stone. You hit it and hit it and hit it and hit it and at some point, eventually it just puts this big crack through and it breaks.

sure I like that analogy as much because that's assuming there's already a foundation there. And in fact, I think many parents approach parenting assuming that there is a foundation, that I'm your parent, I've sacrificed for you, I gave birth to you, I fed you, I clothed you, I got up in the night with you, like you owe me. If I ask you to do something, you owe me. They're assuming that there's this foundation of trust when the reality is it's not there.

because for your child, they are oblivious to all of the things you have done for them. They're oblivious to the sacrifices you've made. You have to earn that trust with them every single day by the actions you now take with them today. So if you're doing things that are, quote unquote, destroying this foundation, what you're really doing is you're just not building a foundation. There's no foundation of trust being built. And unless you have a foundation of trust with your child, you have no influence.

over them or in their lives as a parent. You just can't. You can't be someone they look up to and trust and go to for advice unless you have built that foundation of trust.

Greg & Rachel Denning (36:13.198)
just philosophically. But this starts, just to add to that for a second, building this foundation of trust starts in the womb. I'm gonna be that bold. And then especially from birth. Building a foundation of trust starts from the moment they are born. On the way, how often you pay attention to their needs. Whether you feed them when they need to be fed. Whether you let them cry it out. Like and I'm, you know, for some people I know this sounds extreme.

But this is the foundation of human psychology here. Your child is learning whether or not this is a safe world, and they're surrounded by people they can trust, by whether or not they are actually listened to as a baby. And then it goes up from there to every interaction you have with them, to every word you say to them. And I know that this feels so heavy. It feels like such a huge weight that is even bigger than we can bear. But the reality is I've learned we can bear it. We are strong enough.

We are their parents and we have the ability and capability to bear this burden and to be able to do it well and healthy and happily so that we can give them the foundation that they need in order to thrive as happy, well -adjusted, competent, capable adults in this world.

Greg & Rachel Denning (37:34.87)
It is a gigantic responsibility to raise a child, to care for another human being and help them become a superb adult. It's huge. So if you have kids, you already have that responsibility. You already have that weight.

No matter what you've done, if you didn't know better, you're listening to this and you're like, I didn't know. Like, hey, we get it. We're like, yeah, you didn't know. Right. So we're not going to be like, you knew, you didn't do it. Too bad. You can make an adjustment today and start seeing better results immediately. Exactly. And over the long term, see massive results and total transformations. But you have to stop doing the things that are ineffective and start doing the things that are.

Effective and so okay to get into some of the strategies the specifics the skills I I think I truly believe that one of the best things you can do is To stop doing the things that are causing damage It's kind of like the whole idea with a leaking boat like the very first thing you need to do is stop the leaks If you want to keep the ship from sinking Fix the leaks right so we have to start noticing

And I would say start with the assumption, especially if you have, quote unquote, behavioral issues with your kid, start with the assumption that you're literally, you have leaks, you have holes in that boat. Or if we want to use the emotional bank account analogy, because every single one of us has an emotional bank account with each person in our life, assume that that account is in the negative. You are overdrawn. You have no capital. You have no credit. your account is overdrawn with that child.

I think that's a pretty safe assumption. Agreed. So with that assumption, the very first thing you need to do is stop making withdrawals. Like, you can't. You're in debt. You can't withdraw from that account. And then start making deposits. Because you'll never get back to neutral and then into the positive if you don't start making deposits. And I can immediately hear some of you saying, but that kid doesn't deserve the deposits.

Greg & Rachel Denning (39:55.702)
And right there. I don't make withdrawals, if I don't punish or discipline, they're going to be out of control. to both of those beliefs or mindsets, I have to just honestly ask, how's that strategy working out for you? It's not. Right. So stop. You have to let go. We get so fixated on these ideas, and we hold onto them so tightly.

whether they came from our parents or a reaction to our parents, or we picked them up somewhere. We're the opposite of what our parents did. I know. I have to keep disciplining this kid so he doesn't think he can just do it every once. I'm like, yeah, well, how's that working out for you? You've been doing it for months or years. How's it going? Especially if you look not at the immediate outcomes you're trying to achieve. They're like, well, they don't do it, so it's working. But you look at the more important piece, which is your relationship with them.

How is your relation? That's the real question you should be asking. More importantly than whether it's getting the quote unquote result you want right now in the moment, is it creating the relationship you want with them? Not just for today, even though that's good, but also in the long term. When they're adults, when they've moved out on their own, when they don't have to listen to you, what kind of relationship are you going to have with them? That's what matters most. That's the result we want. That's the real.

That's the real key there to whether or not your strategy is actually working. If you have a horrible relationship with your child, but they don't listen to bad music because you don't let them do it, that's not a strategy that's working. You're not winning. You're not winning this But you're like, but my kids don't listen to it. Because they're afraid of what you're going to do. As soon as you're not around, as soon as they feel like I can't be caught by my parents, they're going to listen to it. Yeah. And as we've seen.

plenty of times, they are listening to it just not when you're around, right? But the most important piece is you don't have the relationship with them that you want because you're allowing that little piece, like the music they listen to, to be more important. And this doesn't mean that children should, know, anyone can just listen to whatever music they want and it has no effect on them. We're not saying that. What we're saying is you want to help mentor your child to learn how to make

Greg & Rachel Denning (42:18.294)
good decisions about the music they listen to and everything else in life on their own to be self -leaders rather than them not listening to the music you don't want them to listen to simply because you tell them even at the expense of that relationship. okay there's there's a subtle difference right there and I think this is one of the most important strategic moves as a parent.

And it's a fine line. One line is, I as a parent say, I don't want my kids to listen to that music. Just right across the border. wait. Let's expound for a second, because that can come from good intentions. You can know, you know, yeah, certain types of music are just not healthy. They're not good. They could have a damaging effect on my child. So it's a good intention. And it's a good principle. And this is one you and I have. We do not want our children to listen to inappropriate music.

because we know what effects it has on their psychology. That's the fine line that's on the ineffective side. Just across the line. It's so subtle. It's, want my child to choose on their own to not listen to that music. And I think included with that is I want my child to understand like I understand.

the damaging, potentially damaging effects of listening to certain types of music. So Rachel, you should just tell them, because that will work. If you just walk in and tell them why... I tell them once, and that's why you're never allowed to listen to it. Even 10 ,000 times, you're just going to tell them they're going to get it, and they'll just want it like you want it, right? Right. No. No. It work at all. Exactly. So if you're like, well, I'm just going to tell them that they shouldn't eat that junk food.

And then I'm going to force them not to. Well, that won't work. It won't work at all. And it doesn't teach this subtle lesson that we're actually trying to teach, like you were talking about. There's just across the line this very subtle difference. But it's the thing that makes all the difference is allowing them to choose on their own to not listen to that because they understand at their understanding, their level of understanding, like true understanding, why.

Greg & Rachel Denning (44:36.108)
it's bad for them. It's a very subtle difference. Now, the challenge, I think where most parents get hung up with this idea is that in order to achieve this subtly different outcome, you have to let your children make mistakes.

That means they're likely, they may very likely go through a phase where they listen to music you don't like. So you say that and while it is a true principle, it has to be backed up with all the other things we need to talk about still? Well, absolutely. Or that is just an epic It's not just the one piece. Because if you're like, well,

Denning said I should just let them choose make their own choices. They were like, it's a dumpster fire because I let them choose. yeah, but were you mentoring them? Were you teaching them? Were you coaching them? Were building a relationship? Were you talking? devotionals discussing music. Every single day teaching and teaching and teaching and teaching and teaching. We literally had family, we call them family devotionals. A lot of people view that as a religious term, but for us it's just.

something we devote ourselves to every morning, which is discussing ideas and books and concepts and all types of things. And we've literally had family devotionals where we read lyrics from the songs and talk about them, right? Those are the type of strategies that you're right, have to also be implemented with that very subtle difference in order to make it actually effective instead of just, that one piece, I'm let my kids choose.

and then that'll solve the problem. that it works out. they actually somehow learn that that music's bad for them. Right. You're right. It's not an isolated thing. It's in a... A very complete package. package. Exactly. I wanted to add another element. But let me just emphasize this really fast, The outcome is what you want. It's children who know how to...

Greg & Rachel Denning (46:48.408)
make decisions and know how to think about things and analyze things and try to understand and ask questions and who come to you for advice asking you about different things because they know that you trust them and you trust them to make their own decisions and they're also open to your influence and your guidance because you're not controlling them and telling them what they can and cannot do you're teaching them

guiding them and helping them to decide for themselves. And they'll respect you more if you're teaching them effectively. Yes, just like back to the teacher analogy. exactly. Too often as parents we're saying don't do that it's bad. Right. It's a sin. It's wrong. It's evil. That's Satan or the devil or whatever. doesn't want you to do it. That's all we tell them. And so it's like this super uber

naive, answer, black and white. And we never explain why. Yeah. We never tell them why. And so they're just like, and you might get them to obey. They might follow along. They might be like, that's simple. That's evil. It's bad. But as soon as they hit some point of maturity in their life, whether they're 14 or 40, they're going to be like, wait a second. I was always told that was a sin. But that's it. That's all I was ever told. It's evil. It's a sin. It's bad.

If you cannot articulate to them effectively why so clearly that they understand and like, that makes perfect sense. I totally get it. Then at some point, they're going to buck that. They're going to drop it. They're going to go away. Because they're just living in ignorance and naivete. Right. So I think that you're pointing out another key element to this whole package here is this developing this a

ability to first of all have the understanding yourself because that's where it starts like you have to be able to ask those questions like why is listening to bad music bad right like be able to ask that question and then find an answer that makes it has the F word in it. And that's not enough. Right that's not you're like because it swears so yeah like

Greg & Rachel Denning (49:05.442)
It's just some sound that means nothing in another language that same sound is made and it's not a swear word. In fact, in some language, isn't it French where the F word is literally how you say seal? think that's... something like that. It depends on your tone. It depends on the tone, but it pretty much is. It sounds just like the F word in English, but that's seal in French. So, you know, there's that whole element of it. Like, well, why is that even a swear word? Why is it a bad word? You have to be able to go through these questions yourself.

And then come up with answers that make sense to you, and then be able to articulate those answers to your children. And if you can't do that process right there, you're missing a huge element of effective parenting. Because all you can do otherwise is don't do it. It's bad. It's sinful. And you're ashamed and guilt and threatening and like God will punish you. You won't go to heaven. If you try to tell your kids don't do that because you won't go to heaven.

Talk about disconnected consequences. Man, that is so naive and so ignorant How about life here now? How about today? So we need to be able to things relevant for our children. need to be able to understand why whatever you're trying to teach them is important and relevant to them, not just today, but for the rest of their life. Right?

And yes, eventually, I believe that's all connected to heaven and this idea of a heavenly place. It's all connected. But if you just say, don't do it today because you won't go to heaven, what about all the steps in between? And the explanation of why. So ultimately, I think the chassis, so to speak, of everything we're talking about is something we've used that's worked super, super well for us. It's been so effective.

And it's been the fundamental philosophy our entire parenting journey is just helping our kids understand like, hey, is this the kind of person you want to be? Like genuinely helping them get clear about who they want to be. And then it's easy mentoring there at that point. Every single thing that comes up in life.

Greg & Rachel Denning (51:18.956)
you can connect it to is this the kind of person you want to be. And I think even with that question, I feel that there's some subtlety involved because it is almost a question that could be used as manipulatively in the wrong way. The way you say it matters. you say it, how you say it, whatever. But the underlying idea, and of course, that question might change depending on the parent or the child or whatever. But the underlying idea is.

I want to help you, as my child, someone I love and adore, to become the very best version of themselves and to achieve whatever it is you want to achieve. Not what I want for what I want to achieve for you or want you to achieve for me. I want to help you unlock your own potential. I want you to be able to find happiness and joy in your own life. And so.

My role is to be a guide and mentor to that, not to be the controlling dictator that tells you exactly everything to do so that you get the outcomes that I want for you. Exactly. Even to the point of something so subtle as, don't do that, it makes me feel sad. Or when you do that, it makes me feel bad. See what I'm doing there? I'm trying to get them to stop a behavior, and I'm attaching it to how I feel. Right. Which is a form of manipulation. It's total manipulation. And they go there all like,

I should do good things because I don't want my mom to be sad. I don't want my dad to be mad. Like no, that's ridiculous. You should be doing good things because you want to do good things. Exactly. Because you want to feel good. Right. And we'll do that. Like when our kids have fought or whatever, get upset, as we're teaching them it's like, well how does this make you feel? Do you like feeling like that? Do you want to feel that way? Not that we're teaching them to be completely.

Selfishly focused or inwardly focused. I mean that's an important aspect as well because that's a key part of awareness Which is key to creating lasting change? but We we are talking we do teach them to focus on how other people feel as well But if you all it's like you have to have this balance if you only do that which I find too often is the focus like well You're making someone feel bad. You're doing this to them. You're making them. You know, you're doing it to other people

Greg & Rachel Denning (53:42.774)
And because of that, you shouldn't do it. That's not enough. You need both pieces in this equation. You have to have the inward focus about how do I feel, as well as the outer focus of like, wow, how does it make them feel as well? And that, I think that right there is the yin and yang of creating the change that actually lasts, because it's connected to both parties, right? That's where the lasting change is. I love this. And we have a couple of kids in their 20s now.

And one son, you know, he expressed recently, he's like, he has a desire to make us proud because he loves us and respects us. He's like, I want you guys to be proud of me. But I don't think it is, and I don't want it to be his primary desire. Exactly. I want his primary desire. You know, I'm going to do these things and I'm not going to do things because that's the caliber of man I want to be. This is how I want to do life. I don't want him in his 20s or 30s or 40s thinking.

do want to do this but I don't want my mom to think this or feel that. No that's that's too underdeveloped. Right. Like there's got to be this sense of autonomy. It's incomplete. this autonomy of like no this is this is the caliber of man I want to be. I want a super world -class. I want to be a phenomenal human being and I want to live life this way so I'm going to make these decisions and I recognize that my decisions do impact the people around me.

Well, and I think because you're referencing something that's going on right now in his life where he is trying to make some decisions about things and from what I can tell he's trying to do is he is asking questions like I'm considering this, I'm considering this, I'm considering this and within that framework I also want to know what you and dad think about it.

because I'm also concerned about, like, I want to make you proud, and I want your opinion and feedback in helping me make these decisions. And so it's one small piece of the overall piece of the overall puzzle where he's the one leading, making the decisions.

Greg & Rachel Denning (55:47.032)
guiding his own life, but is seeking the influence and guidance of people he respects and loves because we have that underlying relationship of trust. Now, the way that this happens with your child in their 20s is by allowing them to do this process in a miniature way when they're a child. And when they're...

a teen and when they're a young adult. it's not something that just starts at 20. You're like, okay, now it's your chance. Like go for it. He's been doing this and all of our children have been doing this from the time, from the time we were conscious enough to be able to have this happen, right? When we started allowing this type of decision making with small, starting with small things, it's not because too many people misunderstand this and they think, well yeah, I'm just going to let my three year old choose to listen to whatever they want.

That's not what we're talking about. In fact, if we go back to the music thing. whatever they want or do whatever they want or eat whatever they When we go back to even the music analogy, like we're not saying, yeah, let your three -year -old pick whatever they want to listen to. We're talking about age appropriate here. But we do let our three -year -old make decisions about the things they care about. If they care about choosing what they want to wear or whether they're going to wear clothes they're not or this or that or the other.

Within reason we're letting them make that decision and I put in there within reason because yes some parents let that go too far where it then now there are no boundaries and no structures and the child actually feels even more uncertain and and Unhappy because children do also need boundaries and structure but within those boundaries and that structure They should be making all of the decisions that they're capable of making

Exactly. And an effective way to do that is to set up like safe zones and offer them This could be mental, emotional, or physical safe zones. So would you like to do this, this, or this? And so we give them options that are within the kind of the framework we want to work within and we allow them to choose. So like with toys, you lay out some toys. You want to play with this or this. And they're like, I want to play with this sword on your desk. I'm like, no.

Greg & Rachel Denning (58:07.79)
There's no way in the world I'm letting a five -year -old boy play, I guess anywhere from like eight down. Any boy with a sword, like something's gonna get. if it's a real sword, it's sharp Yeah, exactly, and a sharp one. Like something's getting destroyed. And so you're like, well no, like no, I have a hard line. Yes, I will step in and say, you're not doing that, because that is.

Legitimately as they become age appropriate, you say, OK, well, let me teach you how to use this sword safely. And I'm actually going to give you a knife. And then you provide the boundaries of where this sword is allowed to be used and how it's allowed to be Let's go with that, because that's effective parenting. You have a little boy that wants a knife, or a daughter that wants a knife. My daughter just bought an amazing knife.

in Mongolia. She and I were out doing a laundry run. We had to go find some laundromat in, man, it was... She's 17. It was a wild adventure in Google Anyways, you bought a knife. It was, well, I just think of the story. It was an amazing adventure. Anyways, we found this amazing knife and she's bought it and she loves it. She loves carrying weapons. But you have a child that wants a knife. Well, our 10 year old has a knife. knives are dangerous.

It's like, no, knives are great. Let's do a couple of things here. This is really effective parenting and it's an excellent example. So you could say, no, knives are dangerous. I don't want you to cut yourself. And so no knives. Well, that's not going to work because they'll sneak it. It's not a long -term you're like, great. Why do you want a knife? And help them articulate it. Okay, that's cool. Knives are awesome, but they can be dangerous.

Let me show you some pictures. Let me tell you some stories of times I cut my fingers.

Greg & Rachel Denning (59:56.886)
and then let me teach you how to use a knife and then I'm going to set up a way for you to earn the knife. Right? So there's all these lessons being learned, all kinds of stuff. Which would include what we like to call a class on how to effectively and safely use the knife. So it'll be a knife class and it'll be fun. It'll be enjoyable and we'll let them use things and then we'll let them throw the knife and we'll let them like throw axes. In the proper boundaries. Yeah and we'll like we'll do all the fun stuff they want to do and then we'll walk it through be like okay what happens if

If you don't pay attention to what's over there and you throw it and you hit one of the dogs or one of the geese. Walk through that. Sincerely, how would you feel if you threw that? You weren't paying attention. You threw your knife and it killed one of the geese.

Man, I'd feel terrible. And I would too, right? If that was me and I I'd feel terrible. So, okay, I'm watching. And you walk them through, you teach them effectively. And then when they're like, yeah, they get it. And they practice, you're like, okay. And then help them earn it. And then they get to buy their knife and they have it. That's great. And then I get my knife out and they get their knife out and we use them. And they get to enjoy the experience of something that could be dangerous, but you've taught them those things. Which then, as part of the whole package, also,

is helping them to develop confidence and capability, which is what you want for your child. You want them to have confidence and capability in all sorts of skills. Using knives, driving things, making things, digging, like whatever. Dating. Dating. All of the things. You want them to have confidence and capability. And the more confidence they build in different skills,

the better off they're going to be. Literally, the more developed their brain is, like they just have more neural connections in their brain. That's what you want for your child. I feel like, I mean, there's tons and tons of, ultimately, there are a lot of skills and strategies that go into this. Now, when you learn what they are,

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:01:59.884)
I know at first it seems overwhelming because we're used to doing whatever it is we're doing even if it's not getting the results that we want and we don't know how to change it. We're creatures of habit so it's already just a part of how we automatically respond. But in reality, when you learn how to do these things, I feel that...

hands down, it just makes the job of parenting so much easier. I mean, we hear from people too often, unfortunately, who just talk about how parenting is so hard. I, legit, my heart goes out to them, but also legit. I believe parenting is a joy. Like I love parenting. I sincerely love parenting. And I think

The biggest reason for that is because, one, I'm getting the outcomes I want, and two, I have the relationships with my children that matter. Like, I have really great relationships with all of my kids. And so it makes parenting a joy and a pleasure. And I think And we're even on our fifth teenager. Yeah, exactly. And you hear, I rarely ever hear anyone talk about that teens are a great experience. Right. I Ours is amazing. Yeah. And not that there's -

no bumps along the way, there are some of those bumps and whatnot, but when you have the right framework and the right strategies, you make it through those bumps and then you come out on the other side and it's awesome. It's seriously amazing. And so I just feel like...

Saddened sometimes knowing how much of a struggle parenting is and and truly understanding that too It's not like we haven't had tough times with parenting. We definitely have But it doesn't have to be so hard there is a way to make it easier and to make it more enjoyable and It's with a skill set with the skill set. What's so cool about is listening to you say that is with the skill set It makes it so much easier

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:04:06.622)
and so much more effective. If we just go back to the tennis analogy, your hands down you're gonna enjoy playing the game much more if you know how to play it and can actually hit the ball across and then hit it back. Like if you can actually play the game it's just way more fun to play. And so it's the same with parenting that when you have the skills that help you quote play the game it just makes it that much more enjoyable. You actually enjoy doing it rather than feeling like it's just annoying.

And so instead of a frustration, irritation, instead of yelling and tears and all that pain. Every single day. It's actually you enjoy parenting and your kids enjoy being parented. Exactly. It's amazing. Fundamentally, have to, I want to kind of shift gears a little bit here. I want you to.

look at any situation or child and just ask yourself how have I contributed to this problem?

that I think has to be the first place to start. So if you're having a particular difficulty with one child or all your children or with a situation, I think it's the last question to get asked if it ever gets asked and it's a hard one. But you stop and say, how have I contributed to this?

I think especially if we can tie that idea into the idea of the emotional bank account and whether you have been making deposits or withdrawals and then getting even more specific about what those deposits and withdrawals look like. You may have no clue what a deposit is for your child because maybe you've rarely made any, at least recently.

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:05:46.926)
But you could start getting specific about the withdrawals because you're going to know what sets your kid off. You're going to know what makes them angry or what makes them. Maybe they don't know. think very often they don't know. Then in that case, I'm saying pay attention. If you start paying attention, you're going to start noticing because you'll say something and it'll make them angry or upset. That's a clue, right? That something that just happened in that interchange is

contributing to this anger. Now, it may go deeper than that. It may be a trigger that's reminding them of something you did before or said before. So yeah, there's more complexity there. But the point is, by being aware, it's going to help you uncover the facts to get to the root. One very common problem I see is they'll have a child, a son or daughter, that's misbehaving a lot. And whether it's like they're in there, it's

it could be as a toddler, but let's go even older than that. And you're like, why? What are they doing? Why are they breaking things? Why are they fighting, screaming, yelling, making disasters, just resisting everything? So often in many, many, many families I've been able to work with, the underlying issue was the child wanted attention.

And wasn't getting enough attention. Well, which is connected to the fact that their emotional needs are not being met. so the parents might be just racking their brains and they are. They come to me, they're like, this and this and this and this and this. I'm trying this and I don't know why they reacted to this. And then it was different. I don't know why. And it was like, The common denominator. The common denominator is way back upstream of.

their emotional needs aren't being met. They don't feel like they're getting enough attention. They don't feel loved and adored and cared for. They don't feel safety and security. Like they're missing that. And so all of these other things that seem unrelated, that seem disconnected, they're actually just little vehicles. They're all just little subconscious vehicles the child's using to try to meet a need. And so like, wait a minute, let's go back upstream and meet needs. I would say that has to be one of the most important

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:08:06.862)
parenting skills we cultivate and develop is understanding and meeting our child's needs. Which is also making deposit. It's the same thing as making deposits in that emotional bank account. was actually noticing that this was happening in a subtle way last night because we were here at our resort. I was working on some things on fixing our listings for, you know, we have all these different rooms at the resort and we're hosting a

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:08:40.042)
Portugal Asset training always ready to you pray training here in Portugal November So I was trying to get those rooms ready and listed and then we're also hosting a family study abroad program We're inviting families to come stay with us anywhere between September of this year 2024 to May of next year anyways So I was working all of this and some things were messed up and I was trying to fix them

And my little girls wanted to have dinner together. And they'd made a bunch of broths for us. And I was just like, I have to finish this first. And they kept telling me, which this is good, because they've learned to articulate their feelings, which is a wonderful thing. I'm so glad they've learned how to do that. And they've done it. They've learned, because we've modeled it for them. But she was telling me, I want to have dinner together, because I feel like you've been working all day. And now I want to have this time. Which is awesome. Which is awesome.

But I did legit, like I was close to being done. I just needed to finish it. And I said, I just need to finish this, OK? Well, it was interesting because I feel like subconsciously, not that she was trying to do this on purpose, because that need wasn't being filled yet. And she had to wait. And she was kind of frustrated about it. It was like both of my girls kind of went into this hyperactive craziness, right? Where they started.

rollerblading around the house, which I allow them to rollerblade in this part of the house. They're rollerblading around and they're being very noisy and loud and chaotic and I just thought this is happening to this higher level because this need is not being fulfilled. they're frustrated about it, understandably. And she was also understanding that I needed to finish, but subconsciously it's still kind of like this energy needs to get out. so oftentimes,

things like that are happening with our children. We're like, why are they being so loud and annoying and irritating and this and that? Well, it's because this need they have is not being met. And many of our kids have not learned how to articulate that. So they'll often, they don't even know to come and tell you, like, I need your attention right now. I need to spend time with you. They just jump right to crazy behavior because you're ignoring them.

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:10:58.008)
You're not giving them, you're not looking at them. You're not touching them. You're not engaged with them. You're not mentally in the same room with them. And so their response to that is some sort of quote unquote misbehavior or acting out. And so the more we can become aware of this, again, talking about helping things go right, we can start to prevent those things from happening simply by saying, OK.

You know, and if I hadn't have been so close to being done, I would have just said, okay, I'll come back to this later. And right now we're gonna go and we're gonna spend time together and we're do this. And we did, as soon as I was done, we went and spent time together. We had the dinner, we read a story. You even let me know, because I was out working on I did, I let you know, was like, hey, can you go give their attention? I had been out wrestling with them, because they wanted to wrestle. were like, let's go wrestle on our new wrestling mats in our gym. And so I was out wrestling with them, we had a great time. Then they came in and did that with you, I didn't know that.

And then I was working on something. came in. You're like, babe, the girls really need some time. They want some attention. They really want to have dinner with us. And so I was able to drop what I was doing. I'm like, hey, girls, what are we doing here? What are we making? What's going on? But then they'd sent out their little places. And I was like, OK, they want to have a little But then you actually got interrupted by an emergency with a guest. And so then that's when they actually started going a little bit crazy, because now we're both busy handling legit.

problems that need to be solved. But I'm telling all of this as a real life example of how we can become more aware of what's happening in our homes, in our families, with our children, and then understanding why it's happening. Now, instead of, because I think the old me and too many parents would just, the response would be, stop it, you guys are being crazy, what's wrong with you? Can't you see we have to take care of these things? You get a time out.

Go to your room. That would be the normal parenting response. On an overdrawn account, you start making more withdrawals by yelling, getting frustrated, sending them off when what they truly, really want and desire need. That would solve the problem. No, gentleness, love, affection, attention. Give them the attention they need and deserve.

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:13:13.868)
which a lot of parents want to do the opposite. They're like, I'm not going to give attention to that. That's no way. And we do the exact opposite. So we make the problem worse instead of like, this behavior, it doesn't need discipline. It needs love. Yeah. And in fact, I remember very specifically as a young mother having this feeling, and maybe it's just a natural human feeling. I don't know. Where when my children would do something to annoy me or to misbehave or whatnot.

my response was anger or resentment or frustration and so I didn't want to give them love because I'm like they don't deserve love right now because they're being such a little stinker and so my heart would harden which then of course makes the problem worse and makes the behavior worse because the very thing they want from you because they're already feeling that in a little bit they're feeling you closed off to them and then when you close and harden your heart more it just perpetuates their

bad behavior because they don't know what else to do but to try to somehow get your attention and love back even though ironically they're doing things that you know aren't love inducing but when we can learn to change that and to soften our hearts and say my gosh my child is acting this way because they feel a lack of my love and attention and can then give that to them instead that's what helps things go right so powerful and then you don't have to discipline

Because you give them what they need, which is more love, and then the behavior gets better. Because a child who has their needs met rarely misbehaves. Rarely misbehaves. So this is one of the key things we were talking about at beginning. This is a skill set we need to absolutely master, is understand their needs and meet them. And anytime there's any misbehavior, anything's off, be like, is this somehow related to an unmet need? And if we make that connection,

that eliminates so many discipline problems. So powerful. So I want to say, because I'm sure parents are feeling a mix of depression and excitement and inspiration and overwhelm. And there's a lot of emotions going on here. One thing I want to say is that you and I are actually recreating our Extraordinary Parent Mentoring Method course.

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:15:41.292)
And we're going to be walking through and outlining all of these things in a very specific, directed, step -by -step manner that's going to help take all of these topics we're talking about and lay them out simply in a way that's easy to implement. So that's one thing I want to mention is that we're doing that. That's going to be, in fact, we'll have a link to it in this podcast in the show notes. Then the other thing is just

Be excited about that. It's going to be amazing. excited about that. But the other thing is, we do want to talk more about this. So we are going to, over the coming, I don't know, weeks or months, we'll see at least, if not every episode, every other episode, be touching on different aspects of parenting skills. Just because we feel so strongly about this. I mean, we truly feel that, not that our approach is unique, because I know there are others out there who

take this approach. mean, some of the most successful, effective families on the planet are essentially doing similar strategies that we're doing. It's not something that we've just come up with. And a lot of people call this kind an authoritative approach as opposed to an authoritarian approach, right? And there's like four main parenting styles, which we can talk about later. But authoritative is kind of this approach that we're

that we personally use, and other people use it too. So we want to talk through them. We want to expand on the specific skills more. So we're going to kind of make this a little bit of a series. Because we truly believe, coming back to how passionate we feel about this, that this is one of the most important skills you can learn. Parenting is a very important job. And having children is very important for humanity.

and raising great children is a key to creating a better society. So the better we can all get at parenting, the better world we're all going to contribute to. Yeah, and the happier we'll all be, the more fulfilled we'll all be, the more we can pursue our potential instead of just constantly putting out fires. Yeah. It's amazing. And we can literally work together with our children to create big dreams and goals to

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create a lasting legacy to spread goodness to the rest of the world. Like, we can do this together.

by starting with building a foundation with our children so that as they grow up and we're starting to see, you know, we're really moving into this phase of seeing this payoff that then they become adults who are truly your friends. You know, I really feel like our children, our oldest children, are our best friends. You know, you and I are best friends, but then beyond that, they are some of our best friends because they're amazing people. We love and respect each other.

And it's just so fun to talk with them and connect with them and dream with them and plan with them and spend time with them. It's just such a wonderful experience. And I think all families should strive to create that. And I think it's possible, especially when we have the tools and the skills and the strategies that actually work and that make that subtle difference. Exactly. So then we can.

We can remove the fight, the battle, the competition. The bitterness. Yeah. The pain, the hurt.

in this we feel a need to control an outcome because I'll make reminds me we didn't talk about control. I'll make a direct link right now. If we become excellent at persuasion we don't have to control anymore. So there's a direct connection. A lot of parents feel like they have to control in order to get an outcome that's because they're not very good at persuading it. Persuasion is a very specific skill.

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:19:53.668)
that is learnable. and I even, for me, I love to, I learned at some point and love to use the word diplomacy. Like I need to be a diplomat in my own home. I need to have the skills of being able to persuade and influence so that I don't have to control. you know, talking a minute ago, I talked about authoritative versus authoritarian. I mean, the main difference with an authoritarian parent is that they primarily use control.

to try to get the outcomes that they want from the best intentions. And I know this. Parents It comes from a good place. It is. But it doesn't work. Right. It's generally some of the best parents who have the highest standards and expectations that want to achieve them. They're driven. They're ambitious. They're good people. And they want these outcomes. so as default, they use an authoritarian style, where they try to force the outcomes.

They try to tell their child everything they should do. And it can never seen that work out well long term. Well, right. And it can happen because maybe they learn for themselves. My dad had a little bit of authoritarian style. And I think he had learned for himself through experience what helped to lead to him making changes in his life and him creating a better life for himself. And so he just thought, this is what I'm going to do. And I'm going to make my children do these things because they lead to a better life.

And that was true, that the things he was doing were leading to a better life, but it doesn't work when you make people do it. It's not until we have the understanding for ourselves and then choose to implement it for ourselves that it actually creates the outcomes for them that we want. So we have to learn that differentiation there, that it's the more authoritative, which that simply just means that you have standards.

You have boundaries, you have expectations, but there's also this freedom of choice that's involved there, right? Like, you can choose and make your own decisions, but here are the expectations, or here's the guidance, and here's the mentoring, right? Well, I created a mini course called the Be the Family Man Challenge. And it's seven different things. They all start with A. One of them was authority. And in there, I...

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teach that authority is earned. Yes. Sometimes it's just grossly misunderstood. You think, I'm the parent. I'm bigger, I'm stronger, I provide around here, I'm the boss. Which definitely a part of the authoritarian parenting spell. I'm the parent, I'm the authority, what I say goes. Do it because I said so or there'll be consequences. it because this is the best way, this is how to get this outcome and this is what you want to pursue because if you do, you're going to be able to go to this college and you're going be able to do this thing and you're going to have a better life.

So just follow the rules that I outline. All of which is true. Like we can we can love the principles and practices, the habits, all those good things and know these will lead to better things. But if we force it, it'll backfire. Exactly. Where if we teach it through persuasion, through influence. we earn our authority. building relationships of trust. gladly do what we ask versus resentfully do what we command.

Exactly. And then didn't rebel later on or avoid it, whatever, hide or be deceptive. All those problems again, like in the classroom, all the problems come up if we're just doing it ineffectively. So it all comes back to these skills. And we're going to outline those skills. We outlined a bunch here, but we're going to do more in that parenting course. this is the most important work we do. it'll, I mean, think about.

You know, all the years that you have kids in your home, that's kind of the intense part of it. But then for the rest of your life too, when they're adults and they're out having their own kids, it plays into all this. So once you have children, from that point forward,

you do as a parent is going to be a part of your life. It's going to affect your life, the quality of your life. And whether you're happier, fulfilled, or miserable and unfulfilled. Like this matters so much and so we have to give it the attention and effort that it deserves and become really, really good at the important part of parenting.

Greg & Rachel Denning (01:24:30.4)
so that it eliminates most of the problems and it totally can can be done. So love you guys thanks for listening. Reach upward