#290 Promoting Lifelong Learning: How to Get Your Child to Practice Their Musical Instrument

Rachel Denning (00:08.44)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We are your host, Greg and Rachel Denning. Today we got a very specific and awesome question that we're going to answer. Yes. Should I just start by reading it? Read it. OK. This comes from one of our coaching clients that's in the 28 Day Challenge, where every week we meet live for coaching and they ask questions. But they also have text access. So this one was texted in.

How do you address problems with kids that don't want to practice musical instruments? I feel like it's so important for their education to have this skill, but I am so tired of trying to get them to practice. It's always a struggle. They say they love playing, but hate to practice. I seriously feel like a crazy person going between wanting them to play and telling them we are going to cancel lessons because it's pointless to pay for them if they don't practice.

Whoa, good. So when you first started the question, my immediate thought was, well, there's going to be some kids who just aren't musically inclined. I don't think it's going to be a huge percentage, because I agree. think musical education is one of the most important aspects of education and brain development. That's massive. You believe, you agree with this point. It's so important for their education to have the skill. So there's several things that I would just say off the bat that ideally every human should do.

Learn another language. There's something that happens in your brain that cannot happen any other way. Learn how to play a musical instrument, like understand music. Same thing, it's kind of a different thing. And then massive amounts of travel and exposure. Like get out, I'm gonna add another one. And like martial arts, some form of martial arts. Of using your body in and using your body in different ways. So could be yoga. I've heard people say even dance could be connected to that.

Yeah, so learning to dance. something where you're really moving your body in different ways. And especially if it's with another person, it's a social interaction that includes martial arts or dance. A coach too, so you're being drilled in technique and movement. There's something that happens in your brain that doesn't happen any other way. And travel, course, because you get massive exposure to other things. So those have to be those fundamental pieces of education. So music and language is a part of that. So I'm like, absolutely.

Rachel Denning (02:30.732)
I want every one of my kids to learn how to play a musical instrument just because I want that as part of their fundamental education. I realize we may end up having a child or two who's just like, that's just not their thing. And I'm not going to fret about that. If none of my kids want to touch music, something's off. the first place I'm going look is my approach.

But then as you went on the question, so the child says, I love playing. I don't like practicing. Bam. There's the answer. Well, to me, that kind of thing, and this is how we approach everything we do in our parenting, that type of thing is assigned to me. I'm like, OK, wait a second. First of all, the first thing that goes in my head is like, well, why is playing not practicing? The first thing I would be saying is, well, why is playing not practicing?

Now, because she says that they're taking lessons, that's why. The practicing is specifically the drills that are meant to do certain things, to help them progress in whatever blah, blah, to report to the teacher, to whatever, progress in her curriculum. so my part, we want to talk through a lot of different approaches to this answer, but one of those answers is.

I think especially for younger children, the practicing, the drilling doesn't necessarily need to be a part of their musical progression, right? And at least for our approach. And I say this with hesitation because I know that there are people out there who know way more about music than I do. They're like, well, if you want them to do x, y, z thing and become this and that or whatever, they have to follow this specific.

formula and path, you know, to get to that point. I get that. And you and I talked about this before and one of the emphasis is, emphasee, emphasee. Emphasizee. What we want to make in this episode is that at least when it has come to our approach to music, yes, one, we definitely want our children to learn, but two, we're not trying to make them into some

Rachel Denning (04:48.612)
virtuoso like some concert pianist or violinist or whatever that's not our goal our goal is for educational purposes and if we have to sacrifice our relationship with our child in order for them to get to a certain level in music playing that's not worth it that's where we draw a line like it's not worth it for us to sacrifice the one-on-one relationship we have with our child because we have a

constant battle over practicing drills. So there are very few people who have the capacity, the drive, the desire to become one of the best in the world. To chase that. And even then in most cases,

there's an exchange rate, there's an opportunity cost that's massive. And a lot of people who chase greatness in one thing, they sacrifice so many other things. And very often, I mean, can either talk to them or read about their lives or kind of see what's going on. They sacrifice relationships, they sacrifice their own mental and emotional wellbeing, they sacrifice other aspects of life. So they often don't end up being well-rounded

be successful humans living a full life. And that's just a cold hard reality you gotta look at. And so if you're pursuing one thing to just absolutely become one of the best in the world, you better have a good reason and you better be one of the most disciplined people out there because, and I'm not talking about discipline in your craft, I'm talking about discipline in keeping a well rounded life.

and staying mentally and emotionally healthy. Yeah, so our approach has always been focusing on the well-rounded life, which to us includes music. Not that music is life, right? That music is the most important thing. And like you were saying, know, and I have read a lot of books about certain geniuses and people that were

Rachel Denning (07:08.822)
Very good at their craft including Mozart including you know if you want to use tiger woods and golf or whatever And and they were people who one had a parent who was already skilled at that thing Right, so that's one key and but two they did they suffered mentally and emotionally and they had not great relationships with their parents Because they were pushed so hard or many cases not great relationships with anyone like Michael Jordan

Another, there's so many examples out there, was like, yeah, you became the best, at what cost? That was too much. So part of the answer to this question is like, well, really, what is your goal? You want them to play an instrument, great. But if you're following the drills and the practices and the lessons, that's more to produce that long-term outcome of having them be really great at it, like they're going to be performing.

But if for me music has always been there as like something that just makes our life better. It's something that makes life more enjoyable and fun. Like it's fun when my son plays the guitar and we sing and you know we just have that as a part of it. He doesn't have to be the best just get together and play and sing and it's amazing. That's the pure enjoyment of it. They don't have to be the best and they don't have to be doing their practice drills you know for that to happen because that happens naturally and organically. That to me is the point and

the purpose. So if you're facing this situation where they love to play but they hate to practice, let them play. We'll encourage the playing. Yeah. And if they don't want to quote unquote practice because it means doing certain drills that are boring them to death, especially while they're young and I say it while they're young, unless their goal is to become you know some sort of performer.

That's not necessary. It's like saying, you know, every single person should do a certain level of math. Well, no. Only if you're going to be pursuing math as a career. That's when you need that sort of training. Otherwise, to me, it's not necessary. Our children have taken very few music lessons. Most of what they've learned to do, and, you know, they're not, again, they're not like performers, but they have a pretty good skill in it. They've taught themselves.

Rachel Denning (09:26.052)
by learning to play the songs they wanted to play.

that were interesting to them, right? And that's important to point out. They can't play the very complex, difficult classical pieces. Right. They can't. They can't. So if you're... Well, okay, here's what I was gonna say. good challenge. If that's your desire is for a kid, I'm like, wait a minute. Why are you setting goals for your kid? Right. That's different. If your child wants to play those difficult classical pieces and really become...

proficient and good on that then then they will. Well and letting them love the play and the journey will naturally they'll start practicing more because they want to become better. Exactly. So so let up on trying to force them and push the practice or get a get a different teacher a different strategy towards practice look have different have practice sessions look different.

so that it's more enjoyable, more attractive. Well, my strategy would be from a young age, I would be exposing them to music. I would be encouraging it. I also want to add that I would be modeling it. Like I remember very specific when my children were young, I'm like, I want them to learn to play the piano. I want them to learn to play instruments. And so what I did is I started learning the piano. I started teaching myself piano with the Suzuki method. That's how I started their musical journey. And they loved it.

And because they saw me doing it and they saw me practicing, then they were more interested in playing. Now they did not pursue the Suzuki method because they thought it was boring. It was more like I was practicing the little drills. I saw the reasoning behind that. To me, I understood, this is what I need to do to learn, you know, to progress in this way.

Rachel Denning (11:18.222)
But for them, I just encourage them to play with music, literally play. It's meant to be fun. And that fosters that love of learning, the love of music, which then as they get older, if they want to progress, I would even say, like my now 17-year-old, it's only been within the last year or so that she has, of her own accord, said, you know what? I really want to learn how

read music because to this point she knows how to play all kinds of things like from memory and it's beautiful she still doesn't know how to read music but on her own she decided she was going to teach herself how to read music because she's ready to progress in other ways that she wasn't interested before so that would be my approach they bump up against their own limitations and then they want to practice overcome the limitation right we have three teens at home right now and they all practice piano on their own yeah

We don't tell them they have to do it. They just sit down at the piano and I hear them just practicing again and again and again trying to get through a song they want to play. Their attraction is usually a certain song. And they'll pick a song because it's awesome, they really like it. And they get in there like, wow, this is difficult. It's hard to play this part. And so they practice it and practice it and practice it until they get through it. Which I know that from a traditional classical musical approach, everything about that is wrong.

You just started at the beginning. You need to learn the notes and the scales and this and that and the blah blah blah. And because we are unconventional, we never, and of course you and I didn't have, well, no, I had some music training because I actually played in the band in high school and stuff. But, you know, I didn't have tons of musical training, but we just thought, well, why not? Why not take this unconventional approach? Allow them to teach themselves. Allow them to play what they want to play because it,

they inherently come up against their own limitations and then they are driven through their own motivation to want to learn to grow past those. our two boys play the guitar and they both play pretty well. Obviously they're not on this path to becoming professional musicians and I don't think they want that. They want to be able to play music and have music be a beautiful part of our lives and they're getting the benefits that we want. Now

Rachel Denning (13:35.674)
for some of you who have different goals or targets or perspectives around music, that's gonna look different. And you might look at what we're talking about and be like, that's unacceptable. It's mediocre in music. And okay, great. But then we need to talk through like, what is it costing you? What is it costing your child?

Is it worth it? Is it worth the exchange rate? And is there a better way to approach it? Let's say you still want them to be concert pianists. How are you going to make sure? And I'm dead serious on this. How are you going to make sure that their overall well-being, mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, social well-being is completely intact when they get there? And that your relationship with them is amazing when they get there? And if any of those things...

gets compromised along the way, you either have to try a different strategy or let go of that target. Because at least to me, that's not worth it. I remember reading a book several years ago, I don't know exactly what it's called, like Confessions of a Tiger Mother or something. And it was her story about how she was the tiger mother. She would literally just force. And push and fight. Specifically her one daughter, but I think both of them too. And I don't know if it was the violin or the piano. I don't remember.

You know, and her daughter eventually ended up playing at Carnegie Hall, which, know, is the emblem of her success as a mother that her daughter made it there. But she goes through and explains, like, they had a horrible relationship. She was constantly fighting with her daughter. Well, this is written by the mother. I know. But as you, and you just told me about it, I remember as you reading it, telling me about it, I'm like, that is a horrible childhood. That is a horrible...

Family dynamic, family culture, and family legacy. Yeah, and you know they couldn't go on vacation. They couldn't do anything. Like it was cause every single day her daughters had to be practicing the instrument for hours. And it completely controlled their life. Now her, the whole point of her book was that she felt like, it was worth it because she made it to Carnegie Hall. To me, reading this book focused on holistic development. I'm like, no, it is not worth it.

Rachel Denning (15:55.906)
It's not worth the fight. It's not worth the resentment, the anger, the mental and emotional toll. That's the point I'm trying to make here. great. If you want music to be a part of your children's education or whatever skill, wonderful. But if it comes at the expense of your relationship, it's not worth it. And your life and well-being. if you're a genuine world-class musician, but you're miserable. Yeah.

You have terrible relationships. Your life is out of balance. What's the point? Why? Mind, body, spirit. If the rest of your life is just bleh, but you're a phenomenal musician, to me, you've totally missed the mark. Right. And I understand how many people think that it's all worth it because of the fame and the fortune and whatever. But to me, I say no, it's not. No. And the musicians and the artists themselves will tell you that.

It's not worth it. Yeah, So there was a couple other things I wanted to say about this because you know, the other piece because you're talking about if you want them to be a concert pianist, but for me it comes back to I would never

want that for my child unless it was something they wanted themselves. And you've got to think about that for a minute because so often we do want things for our children. We want them to be and and I understand it's natural you know as a mother we feel the sense of pride and accomplishment if our children do great things. But there's a fine line there where it's natural to want our kids to succeed versus we're trying to fill a void.

Yeah. From our own inner suffering. Which often is what it comes down to. We failed at something and man I hear this and see it all the time where you know either the dad or the mom or always to learn an instrument and I never did. now gonna make my kids do it. I always wanted to be a star athlete but I couldn't so my son will be and my daughter will be this and you know I don't like my career so my son or daughter will be this other thing.

Rachel Denning (18:11.498)
Or, you know, I'm a dentist so my kids will be dentists. whatever it is, like that's crazy. It's not healthy, ultimately. And it creates these unhealthy dynamics between the parent and child. So, and there's nothing, and I also want to say on the other side of this, there's nothing wrong with wanting to support them in those things if they, you know, or introducing them to them. There's nothing wrong with introducing them to concert pianists or beautiful music or...

you know, whatever. Like you can even pay for it and encouraging it. You encourage it and occasionally holding them to the commitment they make. Well, and that's another thing we want to talk about, you know, because I'm not saying, you know, if our kids don't feel like doing whatever, then just let them not do it. That's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is you have to first facilitate that.

inner love, that inner desire of their own so that they have their own fire within that says, yeah, that is something I want to do. And then once they have that, and I would even say after they've dabbled with the the love of doing that thing, the love of playing versus practicing, then you help them say, okay, well, if you want to actually achieve this thing, well, this is what's required. You're going to have to learn the scales.

You're going to have to do these drills. But then the difference comes, and again, this comes also with maturity. They choose it on their own. And they say, OK, I'm going to put in the hard work to make that happen. And that may not happen until they're 10 or 15 or 20. You know what I mean? But the point is, when they decide on their own and they make the commitment, well, that's when you put in the work. But before that,

We can't decide for someone else what they should commit to. None of us should be doing that as parents. None of us should be saying, my child is going to commit to this thing. Because a commitment is something you make. And you can't make a commitment for someone. And we've seen this with people and their kids in gymnastics or sports or whatever. Like, my kid will commit to doing this. That's impossible. They have to make the commitment themselves. So you create all the environment, and you plant the seeds, and you do all the things you can to support that. But ultimately, they're the one that

Rachel Denning (20:33.05)
to make that commitment about whether or not they're going to do it. Yes, yes, yes. So I don't know. I think in a situation like this where if they're not committed to the practice, yeah, I agree. It is pointless to pay for the lessons if they don't want to practice for them. But what's not pointless is finding other ways to encourage them to pursue music. And well, enjoy playing and let the love of playing lead to the desire to practice.

In this specific situation my first step would be to do because what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna ask myself like okay How can I get my kid to want to practice so that I'm not forcing them to play? Let's let's call it play so we can kind of different Well, I want to I want to get to practice specifically the practice parts like it's not play. It's not pleasant. It's difficult How do I get my kid to want to practice? So I'm gonna try every strategy technique

I think that that would start with what we discussed about encouraging first the play. So you encourage the playing first so that eventually you can get to the practice. And that's part of my strategy. But I'm starting with how can I get my child to want to practice? Well, I'm going to get them to crazy love to play. then I'm going to, know, hey, what about this song? What about that song? I'm going to introduce some fun songs. This is so akin to the love of learning and reading. Right.

early on some kids want to read and others like I don't want to read. I'm like okay how can I get my kid to want to read because learning how to read is challenging. Well I'm gonna read to them and then when they start reading their books I'm gonna get books that are at their level or just above their level and I'm gonna make sure I choose books that are off the charts. they go I love reading. I love books. This is awesome. If I had my kid a textbook early on and like son you need to read.

read this. It's just suffering. exactly like please no and then they walk away like I hate reading. I'm not reading but if I'm careful about what I choose I'm like hey read this book. No I got it so hard I'm like just read it like I don't want to I'm like I'll pay 20 bucks if you do and then really like that book was so good. Exactly. I have another one just like that and we work our way into the then more difficult reading later on where they're cranking through the books because

Rachel Denning (22:58.394)
my effective approach. Right. OK. And so while you were saying that, I was thinking, you know, that's the very approach many parents take with learning an instrument. They're like, And it may even be induced by the child, where they say, I want to play this instrument. And probably because they heard it being played somewhere, and it was beautiful, and it was gorgeous, and inspiring. And so then what happens? We literally put them in a lesson where it's like, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. You know, and they have to play these stupid things that are

they don't like. And we think that's how we teach a child to play an instrument, right? But it's the same as giving them a boring textbook. They're going to be so bored by it that they're like, I don't want to play this instrument. Like, I hate this instrument. It's so boring. And I understand that, obviously with something, especially like something like a violin, you can't even play anything that sounds like music for a very long time unless you just do the hard work.

But with a piano though, and that's why I love starting kids with a piano, it's so easy to make music that's beautiful, that's not complex. mean, my kids, and granted, they started very often with pop songs. That's what they wanted to learn to play. But that got them into the love of learning. And then when they were exposed to different music and different pieces, then they want to try learning those ones. But they begin with something that's fun and enticing and not too far out of reach. And so it...

gives them that connection where then they're like, okay, I like this. But then that's when they're ready to take on the higher challenges. I guess I want to make a point there. Kids will practice hard and do the drills on songs they want to learn. Exactly. No, So they have to want it. So if a child comes to me and I'm like, I think you should work on this classical piece. And they're like, ugh. Of course, it's going to be like pulling teeth to get them to practice. So at some point, they will get to the classical piece.

Let them start with a piece that they are excited about that they choose that they come to you like, I'm gonna play this pop song. And instead of you like, that's not even music. It's just it's a despicable embarrassment. Yeah, but that's what's motivating to the kid. Right. So I don't start my kids with, you know, Shakespeare or very difficult poetry text. I don't start with poetry. I don't start with, you know, we start with.

Rachel Denning (25:23.962)
Kant or the philosophers right we start with a book it's usually a fantasy book and our kids when they're the tweens ages they're just pounding these fantasy books about dragons or whatever they love it like it's amazing and I'm not worried about it I'm not sitting there thinking why aren't you reading war and peace and Madame Bovary and Les Mis and the confessions of Jean-Jacques Rousseau I'm not sitting here like

Duh child, you'll never be educated if you keep reading fantasy books. I know that fantasy creates the love of reading and exposure to massive vocabulary and creativity and worlds. And even these fantasy writers are drawing on some of these great classic books. They're piecing it together. And I know eventually, I know where I'm leading these kids, to the great classic library. And so we'll get there. Right, exactly. Yeah, so you have to think of it as a long game.

Now I do want to throw in a few specific strategies because I know even with that framework in place, there's still, because I've had these kids, there are still kids who will be completely resistant to learning an instrument. They'll just be like, no, I'm not interested at all. There's nothing I want to learn how to play. And so I have had to use some specific strategies to encourage that development, right, that pursuit of learning to play an instrument. And for me,

I think something that has worked very well is specifically this approach where we call it consumption versus creation. Where our children are required to spend some time creating things before they can consume things. In this case, pop music. My children like pop music and...

Now we've had five teenagers and teenagers love pop music and so our younger kids love pop music. But we have a rule that you're not allowed and this started with my older kids. You're not allowed to listen to pop music every single morning. Not every single morning. Most mornings we put on a classical music playlist. It's something that I curated and you know it's just a part of our morning routine. put it on and listen to Just the best of the best. When we first started.

Rachel Denning (27:46.038)
And still some of No, but they love it now. I know they love it, but they will still sometimes. I think just because, you know, that's the nature of teenagers, they'll kind of be like, no, we're listening to the classic, you know, but they still, they love it. They enjoy it. And it's becoming a part of their exposure to music and to, you know, different genres. That's my job. I feel like that's my role. That's what I have control over. So that's kind of one of our rules in the morning. We don't listen to pop music or other things. We listen to the classics.

So we put the classics on. then in another time during the day, they don't listen to it while they're studying or whatever. But if they want to listen to pop music, they are required to spend some time creating before they consume. Creating music before they can consume music. So they will practice whatever instrument of choice, generally the piano. And then I will, especially when I'm trying to encourage this development, now my 19-year-old son.

He listens to tons of pop music and he also plays tons of guitar music. He does both. I don't control them. But for my 14-year-old or my 10-year-old, I'm still controlling that where I'm saying, OK, you can listen to however much time of pop music as you spent creating music on the piano. I love that. Now, I'm able to do that because I control access to their devices. They don't have access to the music. They have to come to me to get it. And so I can say, how much time did you spend on the piano?

And again, there's freedom there where they can practice whatever they want. I'm not making them do specific drills. But the point is that they spend time learning about what it is they want to learn, watching the song on YouTube, maybe watching the tutorial, and then learning it and practicing it before they're allowed to consume musical content. So that's one strategy that I have used to just encourage, essentially encouraging the play of music.

that love of learning of music, because otherwise it is easy to just listen to music all the time and never want to create it. But it encourages them to participate in the creation of music. Another strategy would be just have a good, and have a conversation when they're in a good state, when they're excited, when they're excited about music. Like, I love playing. awesome. Hey, do you want to still keep taking lessons then? Because you love it so much. they're like, yes, I do. OK.

Rachel Denning (30:12.09)
Well, the lessons cost this much. And in order to make the lessons worth it, like you got to practice what the teacher teaches you. Are you willing to do that? And in that moment, they're going to be like, yes. And I'm like, OK, let's set up some standards. Let's set up some expectations. And I would talk through it with them. Like, hey, if I pay for this, then how much are you willing to practice? And they'll come up with something. Let them choose. Like, I'll do 30 minutes a day.

four days a week or something or five days a week. Okay, great. And what happens if you don't stick to that? And then come up with a consequence there. So it's a natural consequence. So they choose like, yes, I am telling you, so this is the child saying, I'm saying I'm willing to practice because I want to play and I'm willing to do this much. And they've...

voluntarily say, yes, I will do that. The point is they're opting in. Exactly. Instead of they're choosing. You're not telling them. I'm you to lessons and you have to do this practice. Then they're like, I'm out. I never agreed to that. Well, and then the other side of that is because you might be saying, my kid would never do that or agree. Well, OK, then that might not be the right approach for them. And I've had kids like that where I'm like, hey, I'll sign you up for lessons or this. And they're like, nope. Then with that kid, we don't do that. But instead, I will say, OK, well.

How do you want to learn an instrument then? What is it that you want to do? You want to get on What are you willing to commit to? You want me to sign you up for this online course? Because now they have all kinds of apps. I've used Simply Piano before. And they have all kinds of things for helping kids learn. So there's lots of options. You don't have to just do the traditional teacher in-person lesson. But the emphasis of what you're talking about is that when a child chooses and

Says out loud. This is what I want to do. This is what I agree to there's way more power there Than the other way around when the parent tells the child you're going to do this and this is how much you're gonna practice That's when everything becomes a battle because they never They never said it they never decided they never committed the commitment has to come from them And that's why it has to be the other way around where they're the ones making the commitment essentially by saying

Rachel Denning (32:33.87)
what it is they want to do. And that only happens in those moments when they have been inspired. so I wanted to add to this. We would write that down. For me, I would write it down. We'd both sign it, and I'd put it on the piano. And make a little calendar so they can check it off. So it's easy to track. yeah, I did my four or five days a week. And make it super easy for them to succeed and reward them when they do. Celebrate. But then the other piece to that is that, especially to eliminate the battle, you're not there saying,

Did you practice? Are you going to practice? Are you practicing? Remember? You literally just leave it. And then once a week or every two weeks or whatever, you have an accountability session. Or maybe every time you have to go pay for the lesson, you say, let me see your chart. Did you check it off? Did you practice? And that's the moment of reckoning there, right? And if they didn't, then you say, well, then maybe you need to pay for the lesson this month. Well, I'm not paying for it.

Part of that initial conversation would be, if you don't do this. Then that means you're going to pay for your lesson? What's the consequence? Are you going to pay for the lesson? they're like, why don't I any money? I'm like, well, then let's make a deal. If I pay for the lesson and then you don't practice, you've got to earn 20 or 30 bucks back. And here are the chores that I need done in the house or in the car or in the yard that I know you don't like to do. And I don't like to do them either.

But that's an exchange on the money. But again, it has to be. opt in. Yeah, it has to be something that they agree to, right? Because again, it's not meant to be parent enforced. It's meant to be this mutual agreement made when they're in a good state. That's the point. And a natural consequence of like, hey, wait, I can't just throw money at the piano teacher and you not do your part.

because that's just wasting my money. And I know I don't want to waste my money, you don't want to waste my money. So if you don't do that and you're wasteful, then you've got to earn back that money somehow. And they're going to be like, OK, I agree to that. We're going to get to a point where they agree. I'm not going to just force something. I'm like, hey, dude, you got to do poop patrol the whole week if you miss practice or whatever it is. But they agree to it and they're aware of it. Like, OK, yeah, I understand that there's a commitment that comes with.

Rachel Denning (34:52.036)
that you paying for the lessons. Right. Then at that point, as the parent, you're not there to make them do it, just simply to hold them accountable to what they have already said they're going to do. I would gently remind early on, like when they're just getting started, say, hey, hey, remember to practice, buddy. Remember to practice. just be gently, just general reminders so they get in the habit of it. But I'm not going to be like, hey, you need to practice. Hey, keep practicing. You need to practice. Because then,

They're not even learning. I'm doing it for them. Right. Exactly. There was another thing I was going to mention, but now I forgot it. And there it went. So.

Maybe that's it then. I... That's what comes to me. Well, I think the same thing is true, like I said, with learning languages. I think that should be a critical part of the education and set up systems like this. I remember. It came back. I just have to start talking and then it'll come back. And then it comes. I was going to talk about exposure. Yep. Because I said this type of thing only works when they are motivated. And you might be thinking, well, how are they going to be motivated to want to do this?

That comes from, in my experience, exposing them or inspiring them. And that's going to be, that's going to require you to be intentional. Like maybe it's going to be something on YouTube or a TV program or you go to the symphony or you, you know, do something or you go watch a friend or whatever. You're exposing them to other people who have musical talent. And when you do that, you at least open the door of opportunity. Again, there's going to be some kids that literally don't care. And that's fine.

and you can still encourage them to play with music somewhat, just as part, and I've told this to some of my kids, ones that were not inclined. I'm like, it's good for your brain development. If nothing else, it's helping your brain develop, that's why. It's like learning math or doing exercise. It's just one of those things that are good. But for those who are inclined, when you expose them to musical greatness, that's when they're gonna be excited about it, and that's when they're gonna be like,

Rachel Denning (36:58.574)
I want to take lessons. I want to do this. I want to do that. And that's the time to have those types of conversations. You're like, OK, hey, great. But here's what may happen. How do we prevent it? Let's make a little agreement here so that we can make sure that we get the most benefit out of pursuing this. I think as a general rule, we should be taking our families and exposing them to greatness all over the place. And specifically in music, we should be taking our kids to symphony.

orchestra, musicals, just recently did Phantom. It was here in Lisbon. They should be going to concerts like our favorite concert. We went to Andrea Bocelli. We went to Andre Reu and his private orchestra. Wow. What a concert. I haven't been there. Yeah, we went in Las Vegas. No, that was awesome. you're right. We did. It was unbelievable.

Andrew Bochil in Las Vegas too. Wow! mean, like, when did you do this? This is amazing! That guy is just off the charts and the whole family walked away like, But you can do it in certain movies or certain aspects or we met musicians. went and Nathan Pacheco is one of our, we went to Josh Groban. Yes, it was so good. But Nathan Pacheco and we got to meet him and the kids got to meet him.

And that was it was powerful for them and they were so inspired and so they want to sing and they want to play and he's singing in multiple languages and anyways, it was very inspiring to be up close with with real talent and then Expanding on the idea of the classical playlist that we that we have We also have the playlist of all these types of artists as well. And that's part of what we see our role is it's so easy

to just listen to trendy pop music. And that's the default for most people, and that's great. But I've always seen my role, especially in educating them, as to how can I bring in more of this music simply so that they are exposed to it? Not that it's gonna become their favorite, per se, or they're gonna listen to it on their own. I don't about that.

Rachel Denning (39:16.42)
They will. When they get older, especially they will. And what I'm always is constantly, they put on their pop and I sing along, we play for a little bit and I'm always like, put some good music on. They're like, this is good music. Nah, put some good music on. And they know what that means now. They turn on some Pavarotti or Bocelli or whatever. They know. And then they pull up these great songs and I'm like, yeah, this is the good stuff. And they like it. Right. And the musicals.

You know, we listen to Les Mis. anyways, there's power there. And we just keep setting the standard of like, here's what this is beautiful part of our lives. We want to integrate it into our lives. Right. And then I want to, I don't know, I guess just close with the re-emphasis of what I mentioned before that if we believe that learning instruments is an important part, then we also should be modeling this. Yes. we should be. And I know both of.

us are struggling with that at the moment and I understand that that's difficult for parents and that's part of the reason why we want our kids to learn because we're like when you get older and you're a parent and you're busy you don't have all the time but I do still believe that there's an important part we can play even if it's in small ways if it's with music you know like exposing them to different music or practicing different

thing or learning to sing or whatever, you know what I'm saying? There's something that we can do in small ways that can help them be reminded through our own actions that music is important and that's why even we devote a small percentage of our time to doing something about it. And I say this knowing I have not been practicing anything for...

weeks nor I and and this is the one place and I'll even tell my kids I'm like hey this is this is the one aspect of my life right now where it's the hypocrisy of do what I say not what I do yeah because I don't practice an instrument right now I wish I had as a child yeah you definitely talking about this entire subject you know and it's funny too because I think you've even used the words before like I wish my mom made me yeah learn an instrument and

Rachel Denning (41:33.75)
And even saying that, we understand that that's the motivation behind questions like this. We want to make our children learn an instrument because even as we grow up as adults, we know how important it is. so. Because I think we're tempted to make them because they don't, if they don't understand or appreciate it when they're young, like you will later. But our take is, look, if you're going to be an enlightened and effective parent,

There are ways to help your kid understand and want to. In my situation, as I was growing up in family environment, making was the only option. was either they made me do it or I didn't do it. I wish you would have made me do it. I really do. Because I would have had a foundation, at least, to work with. And so in a way, we could say that. We're still, this is about how to make.

your children learn an instrument, but in a way that still maintains the relationship that we want with them and maintains their holistic development. That's our emphasis. Not that you just throw it out the window. So make them with diplomacy and tact and influence and persuasion. There's so many more effective ways to get them to say, yeah, I totally want to practice. I will practice those boring drills because I love to play music and I want to play songs that

Inspire me and I know that in order to play a song I have to do my drills and and even to Remind us that that may not happen until the later years and that's okay as long as they're still continuing that relationship with playing with music in the younger years, know, like and that's the thing I love to To say it's never too late to learn something, you know, and even us admitting that we're not practicing I still know at any moment I could just

decide, you know what, I'm gonna devote time to doing this and... I've already made plans for me that after I'm through this phase of life where we still have young kids at home, still building business, still traveling the world, there's going to be a phase where I carve out large chunks of time just to learn to play instruments. So for my grandkids, I'm gonna be good.

Rachel Denning (43:52.362)
at some instrument or other or two or three. it's an important, so again, in that I'm hypocritical. So what I am emphasizing, it's a long game philosophy. It's about making music a part of your life more than producing a certain outcome by a certain age, by doing certain drills. For some, that's what they want. For us, we're all about and we're encouraging you here to have that holistic approach.

where you're maintaining the relationship you have with your child is the most important aspect and you're, you don't want to jeopardize that in exchange for some talent, some talent through practice. Love it. So include it in your family life. Just keep trying and with each kid it'll be different. So try different strategies. Just keep trying different strategies until you find the one they're like, yeah, that works.

and we can maintain their well-being, our relationship, and get the skills in music. Love you guys, thanks for listening. Reach upward.