Sept. 9, 2025

The Comfort Crisis: Why Today’s Teens Are Soft, Squishy an Unprepared to Launch

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In today’s age of comfort and convenience, ordinary challenges leave kids overwhelmed—which is why teen resilience is essential. In this episode, Greg and Rachel Denning share how parents can micro-dose discomfort through daily habits and macro-dose challenge with travel, service, and adventure. By strategically introducing difficulty, families can raise teens who are confident, capable, and truly prepared to launch into adulthood.

Why are so many teens today collapsing under ordinary challenges?

Things seem hard because we are soft. After decades of comfort, convenience, and ease, too many kids haven’t been forged by healthy discomfort—so everyday life feels overwhelming.

In this episode, Greg and Rachel Denning reveal why today’s teens are unprepared to launch—and how parents can strategically build resilience, grit, and holistic toughness without becoming harsh or hard-hearted.

Key Takeaways:

✅ Use micro doses of discomfort—workouts, cold showers, chores, social reps—to build daily resilience

✅ Plan macro doses of challenge—travel, service, treks, adventures—to forge lasting grit

✅ Avoid raising “squishy kids” who collapse under stress, rejection, or discomfort

✅ Teach kids emotional strength and sensitivity without raising entitled adults

✅ Prepare your children to handle setbacks, stress, and even crisis with courage

Bottom line: If you don’t add challenge, the world will—and it won’t be gentle. Parents must be deliberate about raising strong, well-rounded kids who are ready to launch into adulthood with confidence.

✨ Memorable Quotes

🗣 “Things seem hard because we are soft.”

🗣 “We can’t just be helpless little babies that can’t do anything.”

🗣 “Do insanely difficult things so the hard things of life feel like no big deal.”

🗣 “Our kids don’t need Disneyland—they need Kilimanjaro.”

🗣 “The only way to earn toughness is to do hard things.”

🗣 “If you don’t strategically add challenge, life will—and it won’t be gentle.”

Chapters:

00:00 The Importance of Grit in Parenting

02:40 Generational Cycles and Their Impact

05:15 The Crisis of Modern Youth

08:13 Resilience and Emotional Intelligence

10:53 The Comfort Crisis: A Modern Dilemma

13:26 Building Grit Through Experience

16:11 The Role of Family in Developing Strength

19:16 Micro and Macro Dosing Hardship

21:48 The Value of Challenging Experiences

24:32 The Dangers of Overprotection

27:35 Holistic Development in Families

30:11 Creating a Supportive Community

32:47 The Role of Perspective in Parenting

35:55 Navigating Modern Challenges

38:35 The Importance of Real Experiences

41:21 The Impact of Virtual Reality on Youth

43:50 Choosing Discomfort for Growth

46:48 The Power of Shared Experiences

49:32 Strategic Parenting for Resilience

52:14 Building a Legacy of Strength

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0:00

Things seem hard because we are soft.

Can't just be these helpless little babies that can't do anything.

We want to be doing things that are so insanely difficult that hard things that come along are like no big deal.

We need to be more strategic as parents.

0:16

We need to be holistically tough so that we can handle whatever life throws at you.

Hey there, this is Greg Denning.

We want to reach as many people as possible and help as many families as possible with these conversations.

And we want to keep this podcast ad free forever.

0:33

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0:50

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the extraordinary Family Life podcast for your host, Gregory Rachel Denning.

And today's topic, I think is one of the most important topics in parenting, hands down in family life and in life in general.

And we are on in in the the what is it?

1:08

The rhythms of history and civilizations, the ups and downs, the oscillation, the waves.

We are at the end of several decades of a very easy, affluent, comfortable life.

And this happens throughout society all the time.

1:25

You just watch the patterns of history.

There's very, very hard times that make very, very tough people.

And then those tough people, you'll want their kids to have a a better life.

And then those ones want their kids to have it even better.

1:40

And three or four generations in, somehow parents are raising kids when on the easiest, most comfortable, most convenient lifestyle and it just makes people weak and soft.

1:58

And squishy.

And squishy, so you were, but you're several generations in.

And so by that time, the people who went through really hard times and and valued grit and toughness and they brought perspective, right.

Those are the great grandparents who were like, oh, in my day, we never, that's right in snow while enemies were shooting at us, you know, and they, they brought that perspective.

2:23

But but 3 or 4 generations later, they're like, Oh yeah, here we go again.

Grandma and grandpa talking about how hard it was and how tough they were.

And then, then we have this generation of just absolute weaklings.

So it's important to know where we're at in the generational cycles, and that's where we're at.

2:40

Yeah.

And some people call this, in fact, there's an entire book about it, the 4th turning.

And it is essentially it's a repeated cycle in history.

Like we have 4 generations of turnings, 4 turnings.

And in the fourth turning, that's generally when you find the quote UN quote, weakest, softest, squishiest people.

3:02

And that is essentially where we are right now.

And that's why we end up in a massive crisis.

Yes, exactly.

And what happens with the turnings that there is a crisis that resets things.

So we then move into the first turning where people are having more grip because they went through the like they went through the crisis and so they have more grit and they have more resilience.

3:24

And so today really because of some recent experiences you have had with coaching clients, working with teens again, something you've been doing for decades and and you've been seeing it for decades, but it keeps you keep being reminded of it continually.

3:43

Wow, I just, it just hit me. 30 years.

Wow, 30 years.

Yeah.

Because exactly 30 years ago, I was living in a horrible part of town and around youth and kids were struggling and, and I would literally go down to the Boys and Girls Club and I'd help those other kids that were living in rough neighborhoods and had it even worse than me.

4:06

And I was, I was trying to like how, how can I help?

How can I give them some encouragement?

30 years now, I've been keeping a finger on the pulse, so to speak, of youth and children, right?

And these lives.

And so man, this, this stuff is so powerful.

4:22

And according to and you know, obviously there's in every generation, there are youth that struggle in the generation.

It's not like, you know, only specific to our generation per SE.

And some people say the 4th turning started around 2000, 2008, things like that.

4:39

So, you know, we've been in this 4th turning for 25 ish years or less.

Some people expect that this turning will end in like 20-30 because of that moving trend here.

We're just seeing, especially with your finger on the pulse, this increase in what you call softness and squishiness and kind of this inability to be able to handle and take on at this point, not even, you know, if we think about our grandparents generation, they were going to war.

5:13

They were fighting in World War One, World War 2.

I remember reading a letter from my 18 year old grandfather about he was on a battleship when Japan was bombed and the war was ending.

And I remember reading the letter that he wrote and I was like, wow, this is really impressive.

5:32

Like the grammar, the writing, the description that like everything was so mature for his age, I thought as an 18 year old.

And I was really, really impressed by that.

It really struck me.

And so you.

Know I hope most 18 year olds, I wouldn't consider them to be literate, but they couldn't read a great book, they definitely couldn't write a nice letter, and they can hardly text.

5:56

It was written in very nice, beautiful cursive, you know, like to me, it was this real contrast of the difference in the time period, right?

For many of us, it's not our fault.

It's just like we are the products of the time.

You know, we, there's nothing we can really do about that per SE, but it's important for us to remember that contrast and to remember where it is and so.

6:19

Well, hold on.

I want to clarify something.

There's nothing we can do about the time we live in, is what you mean.

But there's 100% something we can do about not just going along with the tide of the times.

Well, yes.

And in some ways, I guess what I also mean is we, we also, it's not like we cannot be a part of the tide.

6:39

We're, we're going to be in the in the tide.

We can't avoid that.

But there's things we can do to be better off in that tide.

Absolutely and.

So so essentially though, you know, we're talking about soft and squishy unprepared teens in today's world.

6:56

When you think back to our grandparents, like they were doing things like going to war is what I'm trying to get AT, and now today's.

They come out of the Great Depression they'd experience want hard, hard work and and then war like it was brutal.

And now today's teens are having a hard time getting a job or.

7:16

An easy job.

A way to college or on a mission or going to do any like like we hear these stories that you think are far fetched and out there, but they're more common.

Like parents are going to apply with their children at job interviews and to go to college with their children and to meet with the advisors and to help them with their classes.

7:37

Like it's gotten so bad that basic things have become so hard for teenagers to do and young adults that they literally cannot do them.

They're having panic attacks.

7:53

They're like having ongoing anxiety and depression.

They cannot function in normal society.

And this is in a society that is easier than it has ever been before in the world.

I mean, they've got DoorDash and Uber Eats and it's like everything is ease and comfort.

8:12

And yet the suicide rates, the depression rates are off the charts.

And the the the the figurative and literal collapsing that they're on the floor in a in a heap.

And we're not.

Making this.

Stuff up like we want to emphasize.

8:28

Well, nor are we throwing people under the bus and like condemning either.

We're not condemning, we're just pointing out.

We're making observations so that we can all work at being better at it.

But this is happening to lots of people.

Very very common.

One off case this is happening to lots and lots and lots.

8:44

Of so if it's happened in your family, which is likely, it's happened in your family.

You're not the only one.

You're not just like, oh great, I fail.

I'm such a loser.

It's like, no, this is a generational thing and it's a societal thing.

It's a massive problem.

And so they're collapsing socially.

They're they're so terrified to have to go out and interact with.

9:02

People meant the statistics now about teenage boys and men dating is like non existent.

They're not dating, they're not going out because it's so much easier and more comfortable to stay at home and text or just watch porn.

Yeah, exactly.

9:17

Like you don't have to go through, and that's even a small example of how this is working.

You don't have to go through the discomfort of getting out the up the courage to get up, get dressed, present yourself, go out and talk to a real woman.

And get rejected.

By her get rejected because that hurts, that's painful.

9:34

That's so.

Uncomfortable it's so good for you and so few people because they're.

Terrified.

Literally terrified of rejection.

We're terrified of men.

Have always been terrified of rejection, but beforehand there wasn't another alternative.

But they fear, fear rejection now like earlier generations feared an enemy army.

9:54

Yeah, It's like, oh, there's a whole battalion coming over the hill.

We might die.

And.

And now our generation's like, I have to talk to people.

What if she says and you have to?

Leave the house and you're like.

What are you so afraid of?

I have this conversation all the time.

10:10

Like what is it you're you're just crushed by anxiety and crippling fear and worry.

What is it you're so afraid of?

And you know, the answer usually is the unknown.

I I don't know what to expect.

I'm like, what?

What's possibly like?

What's so terrifying?

10:26

Like what Unknown.

Well, I don't know what the food will be like.

Are you kidding me?

Like you What?

And so we end up afraid or beat down by simple things, small things, insignificant things because we as as a society, as a generation are so underdeveloped.

10:47

As I, as I love to teach and often say it's like things seem hard because we are soft, They feel really big, but only because we are really small.

It literally truly insignificant things, small things, pathetic things, things that previous generations or people in other societies would look at.

11:05

Like, you kidding me?

That's stuff we do before breakfast in the morning.

And it takes you months to have therapy to work up to it like what is going on.

And so it's a big, big problem that's holding people back.

And so while it is part of the tide of the turning and the generation right, like you already mentioned, there are things we can do within our families to help our own children develop more resilience and grit and strength.

11:36

And again, this isn't I, I never want to be misunderstood.

We're not saying we have to go back to earlier times where people were just heard and hard hearted and, you know, had no sensitivity for feelings or emotions or whatever.

You know what I'm saying?

Like I think there's this idea of the toxicity of that time where you have feelings and you feel bad about something too bad, just get over it.

11:56

And you know what I'm saying?

Like, yes, there's this emotional aspect of ourselves we should respect and respond to and and acknowledge, and that's OK, That's fine.

But at the same time, we have to have resilience.

We can't just be these helpless little babies that can't do anything because of our emotions and our fears.

12:15

So I can experience, and my children can experience a full spectrum of emotion.

And, and generally this is applied to men and boys like, oh, you're not supposed to cry.

You're not supposed to have feelings.

So, you know, a young man or a man can have a full spectrum of, of emotions and feelings.

It's fantastic.

12:31

But that doesn't mean I have to become hypersensitive and weak and unable to everything, right?

Exactly.

Especially right.

So there's two books in particular I thought of was we talked about doing this.

One of them is The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter.

12:49

And I've actually only started it.

My daughter, who's 18, just has recently finished it.

She really enjoyed it.

And then of course, The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt, which you and I have both read.

Fantastic, both of them.

Well, I also think about the book where a Grit by Angela Duckworth, we're actually reading that as a class for the Habits for a Successful Life class that starts this week.

13:10

Like we're reading that together because it is so relevant and so.

And that's, that is actually the theme of your I'm just remembering that's the theme of the course this year, this semester is character and grit, building this resilience.

But especially in the, the comfort crisis, he really goes through and makes this case.

13:28

That's completely valid.

I think we can all acknowledge that, you know, in our modern day life, like we've already talked about, kids don't face discomfort on a daily basis.

Like they don't feel cold, they don't feel hungry.

They don't have to do anything that's really hard.

13:45

They don't have to get out of their comfort zone.

And that's, if you think about it, that's actually a very strange phenomena for the human condition like.

In all of this time in history, yeah.

When has that occurred?

What?

14:00

And and I want to this seems insignificant, but it it's so relevant and so important.

Like where a a young man or a young woman thinks 60° is just freezing cold and 80 is extremely hot and like won't be bothered by either of them.

14:18

Like how, how dare this happen?

Like I immediately need my air conditioning or my heater.

And in fact, and, and again, don't we don't want to be misunderstood here.

I love luxury.

But when it becomes like we get entitled to it, we think no I well when I get to my car I want the the seat heated and the steering wheel too.

14:42

I love heats.

So do I and heated seat.

It's amazing.

Now they're putting air conditioners in seats, so it's like not even your butt's going to get too hot again.

I like luxury, Fantastic.

But if you can't handle hard things, something's off.

15:00

Well, because it simply does not create the necessary experiences for you to develop grit and resilience.

Like.

That's the irony.

You have to face difficult circumstances, even something as simple as not having the AC you want or the heat, in order to develop grit and resilience.

15:23

Well beyond that and we'll get, we'll get into this.

You need to be able to go spend weeks in the jungle helping and serving people and it's just hotter than hell and you just are grinding and, and into the freezing, freezing cold to get up in the mountains where it's down to the bone and you're genuinely concerned about frostbite.

15:47

Like you've got, you've got to be able to go, but you have to, you have to be able to go to those levels to be capable and capable for what?

To be able to handle what's coming.

And, and I know some people right now might be arguing.

It's like, why would we have to be capable to do that?

Like look around our, our lives are so good, They're so comfortable.

16:05

We don't need grit anymore.

Everything's taken care of.

And pretty soon we'll have robots that'll do all the heavy lifting for us.

Like I won't even have to bring my groceries in anymore if there's a heavy watermelon.

They're doing robots in China where they'll now have babies.

You don't even have to have a baby anymore because the robot can carry the baby for you and then.

16:24

Oh my.

Goodness.

So now you don't have to go through labor or delivery.

So uncomfortable.

Why do those things?

And and there's, we're moving to this place, but there's going to be I think in the next, you know, 5 to 10 years.

Into the 4th.

16:40

Turning and these big thinkers, there's another reset coming that's going to reset society and there's a collapse or they always call it a crisis.

There's a crisis coming and and all it takes is the littlest blip and then people lose their minds.

We were literally talking about this yesterday.

16:56

We have some German friends that live here nearby in Portugal and a few months ago you and I went to Scotland to lead a couples trip and we left our kids here.

Castle.

Yeah, we are.

Staying in Castle.

Having a great time and we find out while we're there that pretty much all of Spain, Portugal and then some of some of France, maybe some of Italy, I don't know the full extent lost power, all power in all of those, not all of the countries across three countries was gone.

17:27

Everything which then of course they lost self-service cell service.

So they had no Wi-Fi, they had no cell service and they had no electricity.

And this lasted for.

Three days, maybe 2-3.

Days, it wasn't that long.

It was maybe like a day and 1/2 that happened that.

17:44

They said.

They said people were a few months ago and acting.

And so a German friend he was talking about, he's like they went to the he was already prepared.

He had some stuff, he had some water storage, some food storage.

He went to the grocery store and people were lining up at the grocery store just to buy water.

18:02

And already we're starting to freak out.

And be very aggressive.

One day this just happened a few months ago had.

That lasted 7 days.

Oh my gosh, it would.

Be insane.

Yeah.

So many elements of society would unravel.

Right.

So this kind of stuff is already happening around the world.

18:19

We just don't always hear about it.

But I think even maybe not more importantly, but just as importantly, when you go out and do difficult things like the extreme things you're talking about, it gives you perspective so that you can do normal everyday things without being annoyed or irritated, anxious or depressed.

18:40

Yeah, like if, if I go run a marathon, a 5K is a piece of cake, right?

That's nothing exactly.

Like you'd go out and run a 5K every day because you're like, I run a marathon, but if if my life goal is to one day run a 5K.

And your life's too easy.

Walking to the corner is like, man, this is so hard.

18:58

I had to take the stairs because the elevator was busted.

Like this is horrible.

My life's so terrible.

It's like, what is going on?

So it's not only perspective, but it's also capacity.

Right, so and I was actually thinking about this this morning because we do we do a morning breakfast and discussion with our family and our kids and I do a question book.

19:18

And the question this morning was what difficult thing have you made or achieved or earned something like that?

Like what?

What?

What is something you?

Earned or achieved or.

Worked hard to to do and it was kind of interesting because my kids were kind of like, it's like they couldn't think of something at first.

19:38

But then I reminded my 18 year old daughter, I'm like, well, you know, what about summiting Mount Kilimanjaro, which she did when she was 17.

And she's like, Oh yeah, that was hard.

But but she was, she was trying to think of like everyday stuff And but she has this person.

19:53

She's also trying to define what's hard, yeah.

This everyday stuff is not that hard, right?

Because she has summited.

Mount Kilimanjaro, that was hard.

So, so it was this perspective shift that is literally just a part of who she is now, where she's thinking, what everyday stuff have I done?

20:14

That's been really hard to do.

I can't think of anything because it's not that hard.

Because climbing Mount Kilimanjaro was hard.

That's the hard.

Stuff and this is such an important point that I want everyone listening to to really grasp and understand because this is what we want for our families as an ideal that our families are consistently doing challenging things, but they don't think it's challenging.

20:39

It's not that big of a deal.

We want to be doing hard things and we want our kids to be like, what, what's the big deal?

This is just normal.

It's not that hard.

That's what we want.

We want to be occasionally doing things that are so insanely difficult that hard things that come along are like with no big deal.

20:57

And, and what they'll notice is their peers collapse.

Their peers is giving up quitting.

They can't do it.

They can't handle it.

And we want our children and, and those of you listening, we say that collectively, we want to raise our kids in such a way that they're like, what, wait, what's going on?

21:13

Why, why are you guys stopping this?

This isn't that bad.

This is nothing.

And but that only works if we've consistently and deliberately and purposely done really hard things, because therein lies, I think, and from my observation experience, the only way to earn that is to do it.

21:33

The only way to become tough is to do hard things.

Which for us is one of the major reasons that we travel so much with our family.

I'm sure a lot of people, you know, they think, oh, you've been to 60 plus countries and you've done all this cool stuff.

Wow.

Life of luxury and ease and vacation.

21:51

Well, no, that's actually not why we do it.

And it's easy to think, man, your kids must have it so easy because you guys, you know, you're affluent and you have this dream life, like your kids got it easy.

No wonder they're not doing hard things.

And but we knew that was a risk.

And so we purposely fit in really hard things well.

22:08

But the other thing that I think many people don't realize because they think vacation all the time, is that when you do real travel, the way we do it especially, it inevitably involves challenging things like it's just a part of it.

22:25

We that happened on Monday.

We were in Kimball and I were in San Sebastian, Spain, and we met a bunch of other young adults there and they were just like, well, and your life is just like an endless vacation, right?

22:40

Because because in, in this, this young woman's head, she's like, well, I mean, we have our regular life and then we go on vacation.

Like we take two weeks and we just wander and travel and it's this vacation just wonderful, great.

And then we go back and to our the hard life to work.

And she's like, your whole life is like a vacation.

22:58

And Kimmel's like, no, it's not like it's not.

You know, we're travelling all the time and having these epic experiences, but it's not like what you're talking about.

It's not in a couple of weeks at an all inclusive resort like doing all the touristy things like that's not how we do life.

23:16

We we're literally talking through this, how we're traveling and then and then our journey is like we've built our life around integrating difficulty.

Through travel.

Well, through all kinds of things, travel is just one.

Travel is a part of it tool.

Yeah, it's one strategy to.

Use and and you know, another example is our upcoming trip.

23:34

Literally one week from today we're flying to flying to Switzerland and India on the way to Kathmandu, Nepal.

And then we're going to be trekking as a family, including our 8 and 11 year olds and our 15 year old and our 18 and 20 year old for two weeks up to the base camp of Mount Everest.

23:55

So, you know, that's the type of travel we're doing that is challenging.

That is not a vacation.

That is discomfort, cold, hunger, challenge, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically, like all of that is involved in this process.

24:14

But that is the point.

That is why we do it, because that is what develops the grit, the resilience and the strength.

In my mind, like that's the perfect contrast to taking the kids to Disneyland or Disney World.

24:32

Never been to.

Disneyland never dating the kids here you're like, Oh yeah, family vacations go to Disneyland.

Like what?

What for?

For me, from my personality, like what a waste.

It doesn't.

Feel resilient, right?

There's no, let's say that develop, although maybe I mean I've never been, Maybe there's resilience needed.

To wait in like waiting in the line you learn patients.

24:49

Or something I don't.

Know I haven't experienced that, but the point is we have to be deliberate about what we're doing as a Family Day in and day out.

And and then with the big stuff too.

So it's, it's what I refer to as the micro dosing and the macro dosing.

25:06

So the trip to Nepal is a macro dose of, of doing hard things, but I mean amazing things, extraordinary things, super cool stuff like we're going to enjoy it's, it's incredible.

And we're going to do things that scare us, terrify us and things that push us and challenge us in in every way and love it, right?

25:26

But then you can't just do that once a year.

That's that doesn't.

If we only did that, it would, it'd be better than nothing, but it's not enough to develop the kind of resilience we're talking about to be able to function in everyday life.

And so that's why the micro dosing is so important.

25:43

And that's things as simple as working out.

Like that's one of the values I think I've learned for myself and for our children.

You've known much longer than me that just working out regularly is giving you that micro dose of doing something uncomfortable you don't want to do necessarily, that pushes you and challenges you and in the process builds grit and resilience.

26:10

Exactly.

Daily, five days a week on exercising, but then, you know, you're taking cold showers and working on projects that, you know, outside where it's, it's hot or cold or raining or whatever it is.

Now some of you listening, I, I know you're sitting here thinking, Oh my, my kids are tough.

And some of you are raising your kids out on ranches or farms and your kids are working.

26:31

That's amazing.

And you got tough kids.

Some of them have been doing martial arts since they could crawl and they're tough and, and that's fantastic.

And, and of course our, our message here today is, is holistic as it always is.

We need mental, physical, spiritual, social, financial, all of them.

26:51

We want grit, character and toughness in all of those things.

So some might be all you know, you can, you can go out and put in a 16 hour day, work in your tail off physically, but you couldn't possibly have an uncomfortable conversation or, or something disturbs you mentally, emotionally or spiritually.

27:09

You just collapse.

You can't handle it.

No emotional development, no emotional resilience.

Well, or in, in the opposite of collapsing sometimes is that you just stuff it down and you go to work and you work hard and you avoid it because that's another pattern that also is like we're talking about it.

27:27

It's avoiding the development that can occur to to create that emotional resilience because that's also just as important.

Every bit of that is, well, even the financials.

So it's hard to emphasize this enough.

We need to be holistically tough so that we can handle whatever life throws at you.

27:48

I think this this becomes especially important in relationships because, yeah, you might have kids that are tough and can work hard and can handle hard things, but if they still are unable to have that difficult conversation, that's going to play a stranger with their spouse.

28:07

So now they're married and they're like, well, our response to this was always to just go work hard instead of like have the difficult conversation and figure this out and move through it.

That also becomes this limiting factor for a fully developed life because now you have this partnership that's underdeveloped because you can't work together to work through these issues.

28:30

So it's it's socially weak or mentally weak or emotionally weak.

And the reason to me that this matters so much is because family life is the backbone of society.

And the stronger the families are, the healthier the families are, the healthier society is going to be.

28:47

So if society is collapsing and and failing in so many ways, well, in many ways that's simply because families are doing that.

To break down a family and individuals.

And so we have to recognize all of the different elements that are going into this because, yeah, even though you might be great at 1 area, the finances or the fitness or whatever, if the other areas are struggling, your family is not thriving in the way that it could be to strengthen each other and to strengthen society as a whole.

29:20

So to me, that's why it's so important that we look at all of these aspects and we're continually working on all of these aspects so we can become that great force for good in the world that makes not only our own lives better, but society better.

29:35

Yeah, I love that.

And so I can picture many of you who are listeners just thinking about yourself and your kids.

And you might have a child that is socially super strong, could talk to anyone anywhere, have great conversations.

That's fantastic.

But maybe that same child can't handle the mental stress of problems, the difficulty, setbacks, mistakes, failures, things not working out and they just fall apart.

30:01

Or maybe that child is is really good, has a lot of emotional intelligence.

It's wonderful and and maybe a lot of social intelligence and capacity, but couldn't put in, you know, an hour of good hard work.

30:16

I just can't do it.

And obviously there are some might be arguing, well not everybody has to be able to do all of that.

To which I would say wrong.

Well, I get what?

I would say not everyone has to be able to do it at the same levels, but they need to be able to push their own personal boundaries.

30:35

Well, yes, yes, you're right.

Let's throw out an ideal.

An ideal is a well-rounded individual who's developing capabilities, not perfect, but growing, expanding and developing capabilities holistically in all those areas.

Because if we leave one aspect weak and we just justify it or rationalize it saying, well, I don't have to be strong in every area of life and that sounds, that sounds, yes, that sounds, that's right.

31:01

I don't have to be strong in everything.

Well, all you're doing is saying, well, now I'm vulnerable, weak and exposed in that area.

And so if I don't have somebody there to save me, I'm toast.

Well, that's, that's not a good thing.

That's not a good place to be in.

And so if we're, if we're talking about ideals and we're trying to be well-rounded people and we're trying to raise well-rounded children, well, we want them to be well-rounded.

31:22

We want strengths in all those areas, not not perfection, not super powers, but strengths so that they're not exposed.

So that you can at least, let's say, carry your own weight in a way.

Although I do want to add that I truly believe This is why we're meant to live in communities I think the most so we can.

31:44

Support each other.

Is a family community, so we can support each other in our different weaknesses.

Like I will never have the strength that you have, and I would never be able to protect myself the way you could protect me physically.

So ultimately, yeah, I want to learn some skills to protect myself.

32:01

But really, I'm going to rely on you to protect me.

And that's OK.

But I also don't want to be a complete weakling baby.

Right, right.

Completely vulnerable because what if I'm not around and you need to defend yourself or defend the kids, right?

You have to have some.

32:17

Some knowledge, some skills about something I could do instead of doing nothing or curling up in a ball of fear.

Right.

Otherwise, because then the only time that you're well-rounded is when you're surrounded by people and that's.

Which and that's when we're at our strongest, I would say.

32:32

And that's the ideal.

Again, we're talking about ideals.

That's the ideal is we surround ourselves with other family members and community members that are also working on strengthening themselves and becoming assets so that we have each other to protect ourselves.

32:50

And we're not just talking about physical protection from attacks.

Like, yeah, that can happen, of course, but we're talking about the mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, you know, protecting ourselves from stress or overwhelm that occurs naturally from life of.

Death.

Divorce, you know, unexpected things that occur, like, yeah, that's going to happen and we want to be there to help each other.

33:11

But it's it's like a chain.

The stronger each link is, the stronger the chain is going to be.

And so we want each link in the chain to be as strong as possible.

Man, if this isn't a promotion for big families.

Yeah, really.

Think about it, big, big capable families like so we have, you know, we have seven children and our kids are capable.

33:33

And so as you're talking about us and they all.

Have different strengths too, right?

And they all complement each other and support each other.

Like this is fantastic.

They have this great community that we're building.

And then building a community of of friends and neighbors that also have other strengths because, yeah, we're not going to be strong in everything.

33:49

This skill set is going to be limited to what we really work on.

And so I want, I want to show myself with friends and neighbors who have phenomenal skills and tools and capabilities that I don't have.

And vice versa.

I want to be able to bring things to their lives that they're helpful.

And one of the greatest challenges that we see right now is the lack of perspective as as things as they really are.

34:14

Maybe we could say, and you, you referenced a moment ago, it's like, well, no, it's, it's, it's individual, it's personal, It's it's relative.

Like each person's working on their own little, their own little journey, which is true, but it's easy to let that get skewed and distorted.

34:31

Where I hear, I hear moms say all the times like my kids are hard workers.

They do chores all the time.

And, and my thought was always like, man, if you think chores is hard work, Well, if you're.

Talking about like maybe sweeping the floor and loading the dishwasher and things like that, that's.

34:48

Right that's not necessarily clean the toilet.

They vacuum they do chores all the time or you know, I know a lot of a lot of families are like Saturdays are our work day we spend the day working we clean up the yard and clean up the house.

Our kids are hard workers, bro.

If that's all your kids have ever done, it's.

Not a bad thing.

35:04

It's so good, but that's not hard work.

But it's not sufficient like we're talking about.

There has to be more.

That's a good part of the maybe the micro dosing.

Right, exactly.

But there needs to be more to develop that true perspective.

Like you need to do something so hard that they think, oh, the yard works easy.

35:23

Yeah, you know what I mean.

Working hard all day in your yard is nothing and that's that's what we're talking about.

I guess maybe that's kind of the visual for this whole conversation is we've got to regularly be doing things that are and we have to choose challenge.

We live in such a time of affluence and comfort and convenience.

35:41

He says in the comfort crisis, he's like, today's teens are practically bubble wrapped like.

Yes exactly.

And everything delivered to him and they think, oh man, one time I had to wait like 2 days for my in order to come.

Like no, you poor thing. 2 days.

35:59

Like I'm regularly reminding my children cuz we order stuff on Amazon even here in Portugal it comes from Spain and they're like when is it gonna get here for us?

It generally takes two or three days or more for it to come, but I still remind them.

I say it used to be you had to get in the car, you had to drive to the store, you had to go around looking to find it or you had to get like a mail order catalog.

36:23

Like I'm trying to tell help them understand what it used to be like.

The world was not always like this, and I want them to know that regularly.

It's so easy and so convenient, and yet now we want it to be even easier and even more convenient.

36:38

And that's a danger.

And it's moving in that direction.

And and we might be thinking like life is just, that's the path of life in society right now with AI and technology and all these inventions, and they're wonderful.

They're super cool.

But if, if history repeats itself in any way, shape or form, there's going to be a collapse of those things, at least for a time.

36:58

Many people.

Even a week.

Will die, people.

Will be suffering.

Heart attacks, like health issues, just absolute breakdown mentally, emotionally and things can fall apart so quickly in just three days.

In fact, that really the the census is 3 meals.

37:16

It's all it takes for a regular good person to go without three meals and all of a sudden they're not so regular or good anymore.

And, and most people can't go without.

They really, really struggle to miss a single meal.

One of the Can you go days without food?

37:33

One of the things during Peterson, I've heard him say often is that, you know, for many people their sanity is dependent on the systems of society that function as they do, and that once you lose those systems, many people lose their sanity.

And I think that that's very true.

37:50

And now, unfortunately, it's including all the medications being handed out like candy.

Like all these people, like so many.

How many millions?

So these millions, especially in.

America of people are.

Right, too much in other countries per they're.

Literally surviving.

And it's not even a survival.

They're just drugged, they're medicated and and when that dries up, when that stops, when that goes away, it's like what's going to happen?

38:12

So we want at least in our family, we want for for me and Rachel ourselves to be capable and competent and tough and for our kids to grow up that way so they can handle easily, easily handle just the regular chaos and frustrations of life that the problems that happen.

38:30

But also be ready for incredibly difficult things that will come that do come, whether it's a natural disaster or man made.

Disaster in a very small way because again, I don't feel like it was a huge disruption, even though I think it's a significant thing that occurred with the power outage in Portugal and Spain.

38:50

Like that's a big deal that entire countries go out of power.

That's kind of a big deal.

And.

Then they never told us why.

They never told us why what happened.

That's also weird.

But it was significant to me that we were in Scotland and our children were fine, they had no problem, They literally handled it amazingly and it was not.

39:13

Not even a hiccup, they just like sweet, let's roll with it.

And they came up with solutions right away.

I don't want to discount this or downplay it in any way but honestly probably think they would have been fine for a week at least.

39:30

Easy.

I would have been like oh we should get back to our kids if we can but which flights were cancelled?

Like all that kind of stuff was cancelled so.

Let me expand on that a little bit.

I I say easy because I've gone with my kids and done such difficult things and solves problems.

I know exactly what they do.

I know how Kimball and Aaliyah would think, especially in Atlas too.

39:48

They'd go back into our camping gear, they'd have the cooking stoves out and they'd be eating Mountain House meals and having a bowl.

They'd string up the hammocks just for fun and set up the tents and they would be good to go.

And we've got solar power stuff, we have chargers, we get lights.

40:04

They would know how to set it all.

Up sounds weird too, but we also have a farm here and worst case scenario.

They go.

On slaughtering.

OK, we're slaughtering a pig.

Yeah, so we can eat.

They.

Would do that and they would be able to do that.

Yeah, even even our four 14 year old I know how to do.

40:19

It recently had an experience where nine of our sheep or something, or eight of our sheep were slaughtered by the neighbors dogs and 14 year old, our 14 year old was the one that harvested them all.

OK.

But I also want to bring up some points from the anxious generation because he talks about how in general, you know, yeah, kids are in these bubble wrap.

40:39

They're overprotected from real life struggles, but then they're also under protect, protected from virtual harm.

And so our kids are living in this little bubble from the real world.

40:56

But in the meanwhile, they're being exposed to social media, which is extremely damaging for young women, and pornography, which is extremely damaging for men and women, and all of these other things on the Internet that are literally just damaging their psyche, while they're also not being exposed to difficult things that build resiliency.

41:17

Their life experience and they're being poisoned by virtual experience.

Yeah, so the social media and the video games and even the porn are replacing real world experiences, which often include trial and challenge as a part of the experience with these easy dopamine driven fake experience.

41:35

And it's all, it's all virtual this it's all fake.

This may sound really sound really weird but hear me out.

I think I'd rather have my son have a sexual experience with a real girl than than with pornography because it's real.

It's I don't think.

41:51

That.

Sounds weird at all.

Yeah, cuz you're like, you have people like, no, OK, he looked at some porn, no big deal.

And he masturbated.

You know, he didn't go out and have sex.

I'm like, but yeah, but one's like completely fake and it screws up dopamine levels.

Well, here's why you guys, and we've been talking about this a lot, but pornography screws up the dopamine level so badly that real true sexual experiences, which are super important for human beings, they get ruined.

42:17

Because there two vanilla there 2.

Right.

It's not even, it's not even good, normal, natural, beautiful, enjoyable anymore because the porn has completely distorted it and ruined it.

Yeah.

And so, you know, if if I had to choose between one of those, I I would rather that my children have actual sexual experiences with a human being that they they have feelings for then looking at a a piece of glass on a phone or a computer and iPad and then masturbating.

42:41

It's like, it's not even real.

Yeah, it's weird.

The social media is not real and video games aren't real.

It's like it's this bizarre, really, truly bizarre time we live in where they're having these virtual experiences that are quite literally rewiring their brains in strange ways, and then they're incapable in real life experiences, but like have all these virtual experiences that don't amount to hardly anything in the real life.

43:10

Yeah, so they're experiencing life through the screen, but it doesn't include the real life aspect of the challenge, the trials, the sweat, a risk.

It's like removing all of the things that actually develop you as a human being and all you get left is the dopamine hit.

43:27

Maybe the perfect comparison is like something like Minecraft, where they can get in there and build entire empires, Yeah, without pushing buttons.

But they they can't go outside and build a Fort.

A Fort, Yeah.

Right And so then of course, it's creating, you know, they're they're comparing themselves with others.

43:43

They're they're they have increased anxiety, depression, suicide, all of this.

And in fact, Jonathan Haidt points it out in his book, is directly connected and caused by these things.

It's not contributing.

It's not correlated.

It is causing anxiety, depression and suicide.

44:02

It's a real problem.

So it leads to, of course, emotional immaturity.

They can't handle criticism.

They can't handle stress.

They have no tolerance for discomfort, for work, for real life relationships, having to go out and be rejected, or any physical effort.

44:19

And they're so entitled, they think their life should never be that hard, right?

Like the the littlest disappointment.

And they're just like so put out, like I was never supposed to experience this level of difficulty in my life.

What are you talking about?

This is life.

44:35

And then of course, because of that, they're terrified to fail because they've never actually failed at everything, anything, because they've never actually done anything or tried anything.

So they're terrified to attempt.

Exactly sure if I.

Attempt and what do you have?

It's a it's a mentally, emotionally, socially crippled person.

44:53

And so they're squishy because they've never been forged by difficulty.

Exactly.

There's no strength there.

Oh, man.

And so I actually want to share a little experience I had recently.

And I do this on purpose.

I do it myself.

So I would never ask you or my children to do anything that I'm not willing to do way more of.

45:11

And I even did it in a small way on this trip.

I took a trip over the weekend, I flew into Poland and you know, I'm going to go stay at a kind of a dumpy hostel right downtown where I know it's like that's where they're partying and that, you know, the, these, all these single travellers.

45:29

It's it's not the people I would hang out with and it's not the places.

It's not a luxurious experience.

In fact, Rachel and I stayed at the most luxurious hotel.

In.

Warsaw in Warsaw just down the road, it was off the charts.

45:46

Like that was one of my favorite memories.

Three years.

Ago and I ran past.

I went on a morning run that morning, ran past it, but it was just just down the road in this little hostel.

It was ridiculous.

There was 10 bunks in this room and a bunch of stinky men loud, coming in all hours of the night and drinking.

46:04

Yeah, like coming at 3:00 AM five.

I was just talking and smashing things, leaving the crap everywhere like.

And I don't.

I don't have to tolerate that.

I don't have to stay there like we we're in great money.

I could have, I could have gone back and stayed at that nice hotel if I wanted to, But I chose to stay there and and I was conscious of saying no, I'm going to go in and have an experience.

46:24

I need to stay in touch, you know, and some of you might be laughing or giggling like no big deal.

But my point is, go and do things that are outside of your comfort zone that choose to do things you don't have to do.

It's one thing.

It's like you have to stay at the cheapest place in the in town.

46:41

It's another thing if you could stay at the best place in town, but you choose to stay the cheapest.

And then I was driving over and I thought, you know, I'm just going to stay the night in my van.

I'm just going to sleep in the van.

And so I pulled over in a gas station and it froze my butt off.

That was cramped and my legs were cramping.

46:57

And it was that right, Not comfortable and I could have just stopped at a nice hotel and had a beautiful dinner at a restaurant.

And I think I had, you know, I took a big bite of a salami I'd bought and and I went to bed.

47:15

So what like, but I did that on purpose and and we'll, we'll Austin go out and just like, hey, is with what you have on like go, maybe go sleep outside or just go without.

Just pick a couple of things.

Say this is all I'm going to eat for the next 28 or 48 hours.

47:31

What it whatever it is, just choose to do things that test your limits.

Get in freezing, freezing cold walk, go sit in a sauna.

This is crazy hot.

Like do these different things regularly that are testing your limits and reminding you it's OK to be uncomfortable.

47:50

In fact, it's really good and important.

Well, one of the other things from your hostel experience that I thought of though, was you mentioned how, you know, you got up in the morning and they're now all asleep and, and it was like just stuff everywhere and like half eaten burritos and like just a disaster.

48:09

And these were all people who are in their.

Late 20s.

Early 30s, early 30s.

And I'm like, wow, it's almost like they're children, right?

And so, and that's the problem of our age.

It's like people who are legally or technically adults and yet still have the emotional, mental, physical, social maturity of children where we're at in society.

48:33

And at least for me, and at least for the message we're sharing, is like we have the responsibility to change that, to shift that so that we can contribute to the world in a positive way and help our children learn how to contribute in a positive way, even.

48:50

Well, and then the sauna thing you mentioned too, lots of our children don't like the sauna because it's uncomfortable.

And I've told them I'm like, well, one of the benefits is just so you get used to being uncomfortable.

Like it's a good thing for you.

And I've noticed especially our daughter Aaliyah, the one who summited Kilimanjaro.

49:07

So it's not like she doesn't know how to do hard things.

She now will sit in the sauna because she's like, it's good for me because she hates the heat.

She would love, she would live in Norway and she would love it, right?

She's like, it's good for me to sit in the sauna and be uncomfortable with the heat because I don't like it.

49:25

And I think that that's so important because we've literally had people say to us because we lead trips and people come on and they do different things.

And when we have certain things we do to help people be uncomfortable.

And we've had people say to us, well, I've done difficult things before and that's their reason for not doing it.

49:44

That doesn't work.

You can't say, oh, I've done that before.

I did that. 20 years ago, one time I did something.

Resilience is about being able to continually do that, to regularly do it.

That is the point.

Yeah, that's where we fail massively as parents if we think, well, no, when I was in my 20s, I did hard things.

50:05

Yeah.

Now I don't need to that does not lead an example of our children.

Rap.

Yeah, and it makes you weak as the kids follow.

Shoot, my parents take it easy.

I'm going to as well.

Exactly.

So I think just to close, like we just need to be more strategic as parents.

50:23

And I think that that's definitely the approach you and I have taken.

We have been very, very, very strategic about having these certain experiences out of the regular part of our life.

Like the trip we have to Nepal coming up.

And last year we went to Mongolia and rode horses, you know, and again, it sounds fun and amazing, but it was actually very hard and challenging.

50:41

You literally had like this raw butt.

Our daughter Aaliyah, she had her entire calf was rubbed raw.

I broke my arm, didn't actually, but it felt like I broke my arm from the strain.

You know, it was a very challenging real world.

50:57

We had people falling off the horses like it.

These are wild horses.

And it was hard.

It was challenging, but having those regular experiences helps us to develop the resilience, the grit, the to be exposed to the discomfort, to to have to be cold, to have to be hot, to have to be uncomfortable riding in a Russian van for hours on bumpy roads.

51:18

Like all of that is so critical to developing more of this strength.

But we also have to do the micro dosing.

We need to work out, we need to push ourselves, we need to get in cold water.

You need to.

Just eat things you don't like.

Eat.

You need to, I don't know, like different things.

51:34

You just have to intentionally do that.

So start, you guys, start wherever you can.

I mean, obviously here we are talking about, you know, going to the base camp at Everest.

And I hope you plan some epic trips and I hope you spend a lot of money on it and, and make sacrifices for your family because what could be more important?

You think you're Yeah, I get some rant and rave here, but what could be more important than that and raising your family?

51:54

But start, start right now.

Maybe you maybe do a little sleep out in your backyard, but all you do is get everybody as you are what you have on.

Just go lay in the grass.

We're spending the night.

That's tough.

Yes, even if you took the sleeping bags out, it would still be challenging.

52:10

You know, I'm like, because here's something else I need to bring up.

I need to mention this.

And in fact, we did an entire podcast episode on this.

The other key element to it that we haven't touched on yet is we cannot force our children to do these things.

52:26

You have to.

Invite them and you have.

To invite them and you have to make it look attractive and like something they want to do because of the benefits, not necessarily because of the pain.

They have to be invited because if they are forced, they were literally do the opposite.

They will resent it, they will hate you, and they will end up being weak and squishy just to spite you, right?

52:48

They'll pursue more luxury because they didn't choose it.

I'll.

Try to link to the other episode in the show notes because we did a whole episode about how to invite your children to do difficult things because that's a key part of this. 100 In fact, that's the only way it really works.

Exactly.

53:04

You have to get the kids to buy them where they want to live like this, right?

And our kids do.

And we've taken our, we've taken our older ones especially, and they've gone out and done such difficult, grueling things and they do it with a smile and, and we have fun.

We actually have fun doing it.

53:19

Like that's for me.

That's, that's kind of my personal, one of the aspects of my personal mission is to be able to do really, really hard things and have fun doing it.

Can, can I be suffering physically and mentally and emotionally and spiritually and socially still be like, this is great.

53:37

Let's let's crack some jokes, let's tell some stories.

Let's have a great time.

Even though my body is just dying, is hurting so bad.

And yes, of course we can.

And in fact, you're really good at doing that.

And so are the kids now like they're in, like they're having a blast and like there's, there's real true suffering going on when we're pushing limits so far and they're smiling and laughing and having a good time.

54:01

And, and the other people around him was like, what, what are you guys on?

And how you do this?

And you realize, no, the, the body can be in pain and the mind and spirit can be in joy and bliss.

So it's possible.

And so we, we lead the way, set the example and realize now we can have a ton of fun while becoming really tough.

54:21

And that's, that's the golden ticket to make sure our families are super capable.

OK, love you guys have an absolutely fantastic week.

Start planning and strategizing and implementing both micro doses and macro doses.

54:37

Get some big, big challenging trips or events or races or competitions on your calendar in the next 12 months and start today to start doing smaller things with kids and get them involved.

I always invite my, I did this and we did this for our family.

Like when the kids were little, little I was doing workouts and stuff and they would come out and do their little push ups and little sit ups and they would climb on me and I would do more push ups with them on my back or whatever.

55:00

And they started doing their little squats and wall sits with me.

And so even when they were small, they start doing it and they, that's been happening now for 24 years.

And even our little 8 year old, she goes out in the gym with us and she's cranking out push ups, excellent form and chin UPS like she's falling, knocking out chin UPS like she's 8.