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Hey everybody, welcome back. In this episode, we're discussing teen mental health and strategies for helping them not only to overcome mental health challenges, but to learn to thrive despite their difficult circumstances. We are empathetic to the real struggles and suffering that parents and youth are dealing with and we want to provide hope in this episode.

Through personal experience, as well as from working with thousands of youth and doing decades of research, we've discovered what actually works to help teams deal with the challenges they face today. We know that not every situation is black and white and there are not always clear cut answers or solutions, but in this episode we will provide some puzzle pieces that may fit perfectly for your unique situation. Please use what you can and share it with others who may need to hear this. This episode is sponsored by

sponsored by Mr. Denning's Habits for a Successful Life, a live online class for teenagers. After studying personal development for 20 years, we looked far and wide for a class that would teach our teenagers something more important than academics. Specifically, we wanted them to learn how to practice self -leadership and to manage their mind and emotions. We couldn't find something, so we decided to create it ourselves.

And teens are absolutely loving this class. They love Mr. Dang's stories and they love interacting with other amazing youth who share their values and their passion. If you have teenagers or know someone who does, please share this class with them. You can go to worldschoolacademy .com or extraordinaryfamilylife .com. Things can also be found in the show notes.

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. This one's gonna be good. Today, we are talking about some of the coolest human beings on earth. Teenagers. They are awesome. But man, they get a bad rap. I think if there's one group of humans that get thrown under the bus more often than others, it's teens, man. Well, and if you read my last email, Greg, or...

my post about how teenagers actually were invented in the last 100 years, because previous to that, there wasn't, I mean, officially the word teenager was invented like in the last 100 years. Well, it's because the philosophy kind of came about where either you, I did read that, but it's either you were a child and then as soon as you really, it was, it was kind of around the age, as soon as you started puberty and, and well, it reached adult size. Right.

Essentially, then it's like, okay, coming of age ritual time to become an adult. Let's go. And then, you know, 13, 14, 15, they had serious responsibilities that were leaning into adult life. And in old cultures, they were getting married at that age, having kids and like taking on serious responsibility and ownership. And now we're like, like we would call child services people that gave the kids responsibilities. Regardless of how you viewed that.

or view that now, whatever, that's irrelevant. The point is that there wasn't this limbo transition period of teenagehood that exists now. And so I think teenagers started getting the bad rap when they started being labeled as teenagers and being seen as a transitory period in between childhood and adult life. Instead of being given more real adult responsibilities like they were previously. Right.

And if you and I lean into the same kind of ideology of like, oh well, let's just give them a good five or six or 10 years to get their crap together. Well then what's the end result of that? But anyways, okay, so it came from some coaching sessions and some emails. That ties in directly to, that conversation happened in our previous podcast about episodes, the one before this about failure to launch. That's kind of what happens with that. Right. So.

You can dive into that if you want about failure to launch, but. So we got a heartfelt email from a mom and we get these often. In fact, that's how she started her email. She's like, I've been following you guys for years and I've always heard you say, you know, talk about getting messages from parents about their teens. And she's like, here I am sending you a message about my team. And the very first thing Rachel and I want to say is please don't misunderstand.

any of what we're saying today. We're not trying to be cold -hearted or unfeeling or uncaring. In fact, we are very feeling and empathetic towards situations like this. And you're not a bad parent. You're not unusual. You're not... It's not that you've done something wrong per se. We just are here to have these conversations, to bring awareness, to help...

there be more openness and communication and understanding about what is happening in more than just your home, right? In many homes and what we can do about it and what options there are. And that's the good news. There's tons of options you guys. And we have to take this so seriously. And so some, my responses to parents are often like, hey, don't.

Don't mess around with this. Don't wait. Don't hesitate. Don't procrastinate. Don't think this will blow over. Like what you have is the beginnings of a very, very serious situation. And if you have a teen that's just disconnecting more and more and leaning into worse and worse behaviors, like you can't think, oh, it's a fad, they'll grow out of it. Oh, this sucks. Hope it gets better. Cross my fingers. Like you've got to give this the attention that it deserves.

Or like Rachel I love to talk about that little baby monster will turn into a full -grown monster of a dragon that'll burn your house. I use the dragon analogy. It's a baby dragon and you have to get it while it's small before it grows into a big dragon that's much harder to kill. And that's what it's like with any problem or symptom that you notice if you don't...

And this is true in marriage, this is true in your finances, this is true in your personal development. If you don't kill the dragon while it's small, it's not going away. It's gonna just keep growing in the background until it's giant and it starts taking over your life. And that could be with your health, that could be with your marriage falling apart, and it's definitely true with your teens and your parenting. So one of the things we like to say, and of course for most parents,

They don't know, they're not aware of what the symptoms are. And so they don't always see where certain things will lead. And so it's not until there's some big problem or issue going on, where kids, I mean it could be something as simple as kids are sleeping in all day long, or late into the afternoon, or they're not.

getting good grades or they're not being responsible or they're even to trying drugs or sex or whatever. It's often not until there is a noticeable problem that most parents are even aware that there's a problem at all. Where because we have worked with youth so much and well and then with our own teens of course we're able to spot potential problems much sooner.

And so we take action on those potential problems much sooner. And that is actually a very, it's a much easier parenting strategy. That's what makes parenting like really easy and doable. Like you notice a little problem. You're like, Oh, let's take care of that. It's like, okay. So you're gardening for example, and you see a little weed coming up, just grab the thing, pull it out before you got this overgrown garden. And you're like, man, we got a

burn the whole thing down. Right, it is like that. And it is amazing to me how much easier parenting becomes and everything else in life when you have that approach of saying, oh, okay, this is not a big deal right now. And we teach our kids that too. We're like, wait, this isn't a big deal, but if this thing continues to grow, here's what it could turn into. And that's a problem. And so when you have that...

approach to parenting and to working with your kids, it does make parenting much easier because you're pulling out the weeds instead of trying to get this massive plant that's taken root. And so this, if you don't have teens and you're still listening, I love you, man. I'll give you a hug right now. But I want to emphasize what we're going to cover today is for you because it'll apply in your life. These are tools and strategies that will help you be your best.

they're for teens, they're for young adults, right? Those teens will become young adults and it gets even more challenging to parent that way. But it's for kids. So I hope that you're listening to this. Even if you have small children and you're listening to this, like this is exactly what you should be doing. Cause right now, like a lot of strategies like, no, prevention is so much easier than repair, right? But that being said, if you feel there has to be some repair...

repair or some dragon slayed or some giant weeds pulled. We're gonna give you some swords and shields today to slay those dragons. We're gonna get after them. Weed killer. Okay so well actually I ended up interestingly today having a couple of coaching sessions that really were around this same topic. It was really fascinating so I had the email and then a couple coaching sessions it was really it was awesome and insightful.

And those of you who are going into the teen years, like if your oldest are just getting to be tweens and teens, you sense the change in your role and your dynamic and the part you play in your kids' lives. And one of the things that was said in a coaching session today was really meaningful and thoughtful and it reminded me of that change of, like when your kids are little, they're your world and you're their world. And you're like, you're everything. And then they become teens and that changes.

And you might not be the cool... I'm sorry. Go ahead. That's natural and normal in a biological sense because if not, they'd never leave the nest. Exactly. They have to go through that process of starting to look out into the world to see what other options are out there. Absolutely. But in that tradition, you don't want to lose them or lose a position as a respected mentor and parent.

And in fact, I was just reading in the book, Grit by Angela Duckworth. And she was talking about that the best type of parents, the parents who raise children to have grit are people who their children want to emulate. They are the type of people who do the things that not, because she said when children are younger, they imitate you. They copy what you do.

to learn how to do things in the world. But when they grow up and they start to look around in those teen years and start to see what other people are doing in the world, if they come back and still want to do what you're doing, they've chosen to emulate you, and that's powerful. So that's what you want to do, and that's who you want to be, is the person your teen wants to emulate. If, here's where some loving coaching comes in. If,

what you're doing is healthy and good and growing. I'll circle back to that later. But one of the key ingredients here is that, well, Rachel just said it, like they emulate you, they follow your example. A lot of, and I'm saying this with love here, but I gotta say it. A lot of you have poor habits and poor patterns and you're setting a poor example.

and your kids not knowing any better pick up those same habits and patterns and that leads them into a lot of the trouble they experience as teens. Now, and young adults. And young adults. So I know that can be hard to hear, but we have to hold up a mirror and say, wait a minute, what have I as a parent led them into? And...

And there's a, like if you, let's say for example, the classic example is you're just all over entertainment every night. You're on screens and you're watching TV. Let's pick the iconic, you know, eating junk food, consuming junk media every day, every night. And so your kids growing up are like, woo, sweet, junk food and junk media. And they do that as kids and they get into that habit and pattern in their life.

They don't know any difference, so they become conditioned around junk media and junk food, and then you start leaning that into adolescence. Oh man, that is a train wreck waiting to happen. And so a lot of kids are so, by the time they become teens, they're so addicted to that and so deep into that, that they honestly have a sincerely hard time functioning as human beings.

functioning with friends, building relationships, being active, getting out, chasing dreams, goals, staying positive, on and on and on. They really struggle because from a get -go, they're just so consumed. And this is all backed by science. There's tons of research by junk food and junk entertainment. And that input in both those sources determines the output. Well, because ultimately...

what determines success for both teens and adults are the habits that they have. I mean, back to the scientific research on this, it's very clear that in order to have good mental health, to have good meaning and purpose in your life, you have to have positive habits, habits that establish those positive feelings. That is actually the foundational piece of creating a meaningful life.

and of getting out of things like anxiety, depression, all of that. It stems from something as simple as having positive habits. And people, like, I don't know, maybe this is a good time to go into this right now, but people want to believe that even with something as serious as mental health issues, which are real, especially if they're caused by something like trauma,

or genetics, because there's a lot of genetic influence on that, or from the breakdown of families. All of these things that are happening in society or happening to people can cause mental health issues and a lot of other problems, and that is real. But when people want to believe that because those things happen to you, you're stuck, you're now cursed or ...

You have no other option but to suffer those things. Yeah, but to have mental health issues, that is very disempowering and it's actually not true. I mean, I am, I'm not one to make bold statements like this of like, that's not true, but I am going to make it about this because we've done so much research on this and the clinical science behind it is, is very clear that...

98 % of the time, at least 95 % of the time, in most cases, those issues can be, what's the word, combated or resolved, transcended, whatever, with positive behavior and habits. And mental management. And mental management. There's maybe five to two, two to five percent of cases that...

That's not true for, but for the majority of people, teens included, adults included, it is positive habits, mental and emotional management that make the difference. So, and if I might say, some people are funny and it'll be interesting how people respond to this. When you give them a percentage, like not only 5 % of people struggle with that, it's interesting where you decide to be. Oh, I must be in the five or, oh, that's fantastic. I'm in the 95, let's go. Right. But,

The way you respond to that, same thing as like, you know, you tell people, you know, well, 30 % of people die from that. Oh, well, I better start sending out my goodbye letters. Because I'm like, no, man, be the seven, be one of the seven that survive out of 10, right? It's where you decide to put yourself. So, okay, let's dive into this. And I want you to know that there's hope. There are tons of tools and strategies that Rachel and I have.

Personally individually been through struggles and challenges a lot. I was you guys know my story I was out of my own early and man I faced some hard ugly uncomfortable things so I Have not lived a cushy comfortable life, and I'm sitting here saying well you guys should just be happy about that I'm speaking from experience. You just tried harder than you could be happy you know and I think

to emphasize, because this isn't something you often talk about, but I think it's important to emphasize that at those points you suffered anxiety and depression and suicide ideation. Yep. And deep insecurities and hopelessness and desperation, dark, dark days and dark moments where I genuinely ask, what is the point? This nothing I do makes a difference. And every time I try, as soon as things

seem to be better than something else bad happens. Like why keep going on? So I've had the dark thoughts and been through times of deep, deep loneliness and hurt and brokenness and the insecurities you guys and just thinking to just believing myself to be utterly worthless and unlovable. I've been there. And now if you were to meet me and this isn't just

for the microphone or the camera if you were to meet me and spend time with me I'm one of the happiest most energetic guys you're walking antidepressant babe. That's right man just come hang out with me like you'll feel better. Someone else called you that not us they came up with that. It's one of my best compliments ever but so so there is hope and some of this is through strategy yes hope is not a strategy in and of itself. It's not just like there's hope you know.

Okay, crush your fingers, pray a lot, it'll work. There are actually real strategies that just work. So let's get into the strategies. So number one, the first thing she really says like, hey, my son's struggling and I hear this a lot. My son's struggling or my daughter's struggling and you know, there's anxiety, there's depression and they're having a hard time getting out of bed. And in this particular instance, hard time getting out of bed even until late afternoon, right?

So the first response there is, and you've got to ask yourself this, and again, this is strategic. Most of us simply are not strategic enough. And we think, oh crap, I have a problem, I hope this gets better. Instead of what can I do about this? So the first question is, what do you, because this is personal for you too, but if we're talking about a teen, what does your teen have to get out of bed for?

Why? Why should they get up? Why not even should? Why would they want to? Every one of us has to want to get out of bed for something. And that right there, if you can solve that one issue, like we can, we can end this thing right now. Cause if you can, if you can get yourself or your child or your friend or family member, whatever, if you can get someone to want, really want to wake up in the morning,

Go after something you win that solves a lot of problems. That's it because they have an intrinsic motivation when they come in They actually want to go to bed at night because tomorrow's a new day and when they wake up, they're like, oh I have something to look forward to but if your life I'm ranting here. Okay, so buckle up put your rant your rant belt put your rant belt on put your rand gear on because it's coming if your life and please remember

I rant with love. This is coming with love. I know it doesn't sound like it all the time, but I love here. If your life is lame, if your life is boring, if your life story is so dull that you wouldn't even want to live it or watch it, what do you think is going to be the outcome of that? And that can be especially true in the teenage years because teenagers...

Their brains are naturally wired to seek excitement, risk, risk taking, all of that. And if they aren't getting that in their life, now of course, let me mention a caveat here. This is one piece. We're not saying this is the fix all problem solved with this. This is a piece. It's all a puzzle. And you have to look at all the puzzle pieces and figure out which one works for you. So this is a piece. Maybe your life is totally exciting and this is not the piece for you.

But this could be a piece. And so because teenagers are naturally seeking more risk, more adventure, more excitement during these years, if they don't have that, and for a lot of teenagers that's replaced with video games if they don't have it. See, but it's a pseudo replacement. It's a pseudo replacement, exactly. It's like trying to fill the void with cotton candy. Like you're never going to satisfy your hunger. You're going to make yourself sick. Right. They will.

sleep in a lot. They will do other things that are more self -sabotaging behaviors because they don't have that excitement and adventure in their life. And they're going to buffer and they're going to numb and they're going to avoid. And then they're going to sleep. Yeah. Cause like why? And you might be thinking like, well, I told them they should do some stuff and I asked them what to do. They don't know any better. They're kids. They come into the world. You have to model this for them.

and you have to support them. And what happens, you're like, Hey, why don't you do something to yourself? They're like, well, I, they come up with an idea. Scuba diving in Australia. You're like, no, you can't do that. It costs too much money. Right. And you squashed their ideas. And so then they're like, what's the point to life? Anything I want to do, it's not going to happen. Now the other piece that's critical with this element is that when you have something exciting to look forward to in life, that brings a sense of meaning and purpose. And,

Back to the science here, that is one of the things that combats, I don't like that word, but I don't know what else to use, that combats anxiety and depression. Having meaning and purpose in your life helps you to have fewer feelings of anxiety and depression.

That's huge. So when I'm saying that this is actually a big piece, if you can help yourself first of all, cause you're modeling and you want your kids to emulate that and then help your teens find what they are actually excited about, that's going to help a lot with something as simple as them getting out of bed in the morning. Yep. And this is true for your little children. It's true for your teens. It's true for young adults. And guess what? It is true for.

you. I think as well not I don't think I know as human beings we are all wired for that. What's interesting and we've heard this from literally wired people yeah like hardwiring brains are literally wired to operate that way. We're created to live with excitement and adventure and chasing big beautiful meaningful things. We've heard so many adults come to us in tears and say I stopped dreaming somehow I

bought into the narrative or told myself a story that those dreams, you know, I can't really dream, come back to reality, you need a reality check, you can't really do that stuff. And so, you know, in youth, those dreams are still possible. They believe in possibility. That's what I love about youth. They believe things are possible. Don't kill that in them. Like maybe it was killed in you. Maybe you bought into that narrative of like, no, life's just...

It's not exciting, it's not fun, you just have to work and pay the bills and life's just a grind. If that's your reality... And that's the reality you're passing on to your teens? Oh, then it gets worse generationally. By the time your grandkids roll around, they'll be like, what's the point of anything? And so that is one element that often if our teens are checking out, it's because they may feel like...

What's the point? There's nothing in my life that I actually want to do. It's filled with things I have to do that are told to me by other people. And unless they have some sort of agency and some sort of control over the things that matter to them, and you might be saying, well, my kid doesn't like anything. He doesn't know anything he's excited about. Well, that's because he's never had the opportunity to actually.

decide for himself and we see that again this is something might count Macross as harsh but we've seen this time and time again. If you're the one always telling them what they should be doing and whether or not that's realistic or whether or not that's appropriate or whether or not that's whatever xyz and the whole list of have to's yeah then they're not actually getting the chance to practice choosing and deciding what it is they actually like and what they actually care about and

Often as parents we don't trust our children to do that because we're afraid that they will make wrong choices. So it's our fears projected onto our children that tell them, look you can't follow your dreams and passions and chase big goals and try all this cool stuff because you have to keep up. You have to be at grade level. You have to...

learn all these things, you have to check all these societal boxes, you have to go through all these hoops, and it's our fierce project on them that, and we squelch them. Or on the other side, we're afraid that if we let them just decide on their own, they'll do nothing but play video games, drink alcohol, smoke weed, and have sex. And so because we inherently, like there's that part of us that thinks our child will naturally just self -sabotage if allowed the chance,

we feel that we have to control them. When the reality is, and this is an interesting psychological phenomenon that takes place between parent and child, once you remove the battle of the wills that's going on with children, your teens, they finally have the freedom to actually make their own choices. And most people, okay, there's a few rare exceptions, most people will choose the things that are in their best long -term interest.

especially if you give them guidance and tools. And guidance is different than control and force. Yes. So if we will stop controlling and start guiding, and again, this has to be done with skill. You have to develop the skill to do this. We're not saying this is easy. It takes skill. Because if you right now, you're like, okay, cool, we're buying in Dennings. Okay, kids, you can do whatever you want. Like, watch out. Yeah, you might be in for some trouble. You got to have some, there's...

There's a big long -term strategy around this, but I want to emphasize this. I actually wrote this this morning. It's so cool you said that because I was writing this in my personal writing time. Actually, I'm writing my books and I was writing about this. Never, please never underestimate how much your children want to please you. How much they want to make you proud and simultaneously how much at a deep soul.

level they hate to be controlled. They want to please you, but they will fight to their last breath to not be controlled. That's just in our spiritual DNA that's in the human spirit. I want to please my parents, but I will not be controlled. Right? That is a critical piece there. So if you're trying to force control,

you're going to have problems. Now, again, it's not always just black and white, right? There's sometimes control might be needed. Well, cause I was going to say then on the other side of that coin, cause everything's a two -sided coin. One of my responses to my child is sleeping in till late afternoon is why are you letting them do that? Okay. So we just talked about not forcing and not controlling.

But you still, here's one of the dichotomies of life, you still have to be a parent that has high standards and demands excellence or positive habits from your children. And so if they're sleeping in until late in the afternoon, there's a missing piece here that's allowing that to happen.

and it may be that something is off in the parenting, well, I mean, yes, there is something off. There is something off in the parenting child parent dynamic there. You may not have communicated effectively their rights and their responsibilities. And the responsibilities that help them earn the rights in our house were very clear. We pay for the internet, we pay for devices, well.

We feed you, we clothe you, house you. We don't pay for all the devices. We feed you, we clothe you, we pay for the heat, we pay for the mortgage, we pay for all of these things. And if you want the privilege of enjoying any of those things, then there's certain responsibilities you have to fulfill at a bare minimum. Yes. So this, and again, thinking through it, it's done tactfully. It's done with diplomacy. It's done with a guiding hand. But in my house, no child of mine will ever.

be sleeping in like that. Just absolutely not going to happen. Now I'm going to guide it that way. And if they ever attempt it, I'm like, uh, we don't play that game. And cause I hold a standard. Yeah. So it, it, it, it can be done or sometimes needs to be done firmly. And for some people, depending on your levels of agreeableness, right? That may seem mean to you.

But it needs to be done. And that's simply helping them to understand how the world works. You're not doing anything different than how the world actually works. You're just taking the world and how it operates, where if you don't pay your rent, you get kicked out. If you don't pay the electricity, they turn it off. If you break the rules, if you show up to work, you don't get paid and you don't eat. If you break the rules, you go to jail. That's the world.

You're taking the world model and you're making it smaller in your own home and you're saying, Hey guys, this is how the world works and you've got to learn how the world works. And so I'm helping you by implementing a mini world in our house. And if you don't at the very least pay your rent by making your bed, cleaning up your room, doing chores around the house. If you don't pay for your food by the very least cleaning up your dishes, um, you know,

preparing meals, whatever it is, that's how you contribute. And that's how you earn your own living expenses. Oh, this is so profound and so powerful. If in this attempt to avoid conflict or to be nice or to think, oh, my kid's struggling, you create an opposite reality that's not real, then you have just created a massive contradiction in the reality of your child by saying,

Yeah, it's possible to sleep in till afternoon every day. With no consequences. And still have a house over your head. Still have food to eat. And still have a really nice life. So you can totally do that. What's the point of getting up if it's nice to do that and get all the benefits and rewards? Like there's no reason, there's no harsh consequences for not getting up. Going back to when you were a 16 year old living on your own. I could not have.

the luxury of sleeping in because shortly thereafter I would be without food and without a place to live. And that's the reality of life. Like if I didn't, if I just didn't feel like going to where I'm sleeping, I don't feel like it. You know how many times I had to get up and do things I didn't feel like doing? Because it was survival, right? But that forced - When we as parents remove those natural consequences because -

Here's the irony, like you were saying, because we feel sorry for our kid because they're struggling. All we're doing is perpetuating their own struggling. We are contributing to the... I just lost it. We're contributing to the problem. Yeah, we're contributing to the problem. We're contributing to the creation of that struggle by not removing the real natural consequences of life. And inadvertently, we are...

feeding that dragon you talked about. Exactly. Instead of killing it, we're like, here dragon, eat some of this on steroids. Right? So I know some of you might be asking like, well, how do we do that? How do we get our kids to go to bed and get up? And so here's how I would do it. I'll walk you through like,

I like to do this and I think hopefully it's helpful. There's not, there's way more than just one way to do it, but hopefully this is a helpful way to do it. And how you do it is going to be dependent on the current relationship you have with your child. Um, because that will have an impact on how well it's received or if there's another approach that needs to be taken. Exactly. So yeah, building the relationships always first and foremost, just keep building the relationship. I'm going to, I'm going to circle back to that in a little bit about how to build a relationship.

But I would talk to the kids, I would come up with some cool stories or movies or examples. I'm gonna look for any way that they are gonna connect with and be like, whoa, that's awesome. My kids love stories of the hero that's disadvantaged and doesn't have a chance and rises against all opposition and becomes the hero. They love stories like that. And I love.

watching stories and reading stories and telling them stories of that because they see the principle of like whoa dude that guy worked so hard or that girl put in all the effort to become something right so we'll watch a movie like that have a discussion like that and I'll say hey what were they doing that made them great even even they didn't feel like doing it was super hard what did they do and

My kid, everyone picks up on it, they know, they're like, man, they worked so hard, they trained so hard, they got the skills, they were doing everything. You're like, yeah, do you think they were like staying up super late, partying and watching TV and chatting with their friends and then sleeping in until like two o 'clock in the afternoon? They're gonna know it's not the case. And they're gonna answer you and say, no, that's not leading me to my best self. That's not gonna help me achieve goals or dream. That's not gonna help me become great. So then you have that conversation, so they,

Say out loud, yeah, that's not gonna help me. So then you say, okay, we wanna help you with that, right? So in our family, and this is what we do, this is literally what I would do. I would say all devices get turned in at nine. Wi -Fi in the entire house shut off at nine. And this is you included, shut it off. If there's a problem in your home.

shut it off, lead the way, turn in your own device. And this is specifically, I just want to clarify a little bit, especially if there's already an obvious problem. Yeah, exactly. If it's a little baby dragon or a little weed that you're noticing could turn into a problem, it's great to have these conversations. And if necessary, with some children, set up some boundaries and with the others, allow them to make their own choices while monitoring them, like screen time, you know.

Watching the screen time is great. On kids that aren't great at controlling their own time on device, have the screen time, shut it off. It's okay to set all those boundaries up until they've proven themselves. And even beyond that, Rachel and I still have total transparency. She can see every single thing I do online. And I always want it that way. And we have transparency with our kids. We want to know what they're doing. And we have an open relationship where we see how much time they're sitting on screens.

And I ask my boys in particular, I walk up to them and I do this every couple of weeks. I'll just straight say, when was the last time you saw some kind of pornography? It's no longer if, it's just when. And you're going to be exposed to it. And it's very often accidental. It's not on purpose. But in research and studies they've done and surveys, 75 % of young men and men admit

to actively looking at pornography. It is a gigantic problem and it needs to be addressed and it needs to have an open conversation. That's kind of a little side note here. In almost every case I've worked with young men who are struggling like this, they have a problem with porn and they have a problem with video games. Usually the porn started with a video game addiction. Meaning the video games came first, video game addiction came first, followed by porn addiction. As soon as you hit puberty, the same...

Stimuli that's happening the brain goes from video games to porn and so then in youth and young adults It's it's a it's a porn video game problem that just perpetuates itself and in without exception every time they're sleeping in like that long time They had no real goals. They had nothing They were excited about and not a single exception in over 20 years of working with thousands of youth So we're giving you these these are born from experience. This stuff is tried and tested and true. So lean into this

So then I would shut everything down and just say, hey, look, we're going lights out at 1030. Lights are out. The only thing you can do, if you want to and you're free to do this, you may sit there in the dark. But you will not turn on my lights. And you want to start paying the utility bill? Done. You can do that. But you're not going to try. And I know this sounds harsh, but we're trying to stop a serious problem. And I want to emphasize again, these harsher measures are for problems that are.

that are real, that are bigger, bigger dragons. And before the problem, we're constantly teaching this. We're telling our kids this all the time. These types of measures are not necessarily a good idea for smaller problems because your kids are going to be like, you're overreacting, what's the deal, you know? And then they start to get feeling like they're controlled and that. Now it can be good to mention it. Like if you have a problem with this, if you don't like the, if you're not willing to self -regulate,

These are the measures we can implement later. And again, I want to reemphasize, you're getting them to opt in. You're getting them to watch the movie or read the book with you or have a conversation and they go, I want this. You're teaching them the principle and the reason why. And you're like, hey, well, here's how it works. They can't do that. Are you willing to do that? Yeah, I am, right? Now in that moment, they're inspired. They're committed. But two days later, they might be like, no. So set up the rules when they're feeling, yeah, I want to agree to this. And write it down if you have to. And everybody signs it.

Like, yeah, yeah, let's do this. Let's all be the bed by 1030 so we can get up and start our days with power. And then you have to hold the line and implement this. And so if this were me and this was this problem, I'd say, look, we got it. I'd talk to them so they get it. Like, do you, do you agree you need to get a bed so you can get up? Yes, I agree. Do you want to do something great? If you're like, yeah, I do want to do this. Okay. Can you do it by sleeping in every day? No, I can't. But it's so hard. Okay. I'm going to help you. Well, and just to, I mean, maybe we should have mentioned this in the beginning.

But we might as well now just to clarify like why are we making such a big deal about them sleeping in? Isn't that just what teenagers do? They sleep in all day and this is where... No, they don't. This is where we have to say that no, sleeping in that late for anyone, unless you have like a nighttime job or something, it's a sign of a bigger problem. It's simply a symptom.

that something else is off mentally, spiritually, physically, emotionally. It's not normal, quote unquote. Right. And it's not, it's not, and again, we can back this up, right? You were always looking for the common denominators of success. So you study the lives of the most successful people ever. You guys, success means, sorry, I'm just going to keep interrupting you. Success meaning, meaning happiness fulfillment in life. Lack of anxiety, depression. Holistic, just happy, just thriving.

really achieving, they go to bed early and they get up early. Done. That's a common denominator. Now that can vary on what that means for each person, but they're not sleeping in all day. Right. Exactly. So again - And it just is connected to, just to reemphasize this, it's connected to some sort of mental, emotional issue that is unhealthy. It's beginning to be unhealthy, if not unhealthy already. And so the -

clinical practice to fix this is with positive behaviors and habits that work. We're re -emphasizing this again to make it clear. It's not that we're saying your son's a loser or there's something wrong with you because they're sleeping in. It's saying this is a symptom of a bigger problem and if you don't kill this problem now and squelch it now, it will turn into something worse. Yes. And again, we've...

feel like we just have to keep re -emphasizing this is all tried and proven stuff. Clinically. Well that. And with our own work. I work with it all the time. And so I just finished up another session of my Habits for a Successful Life class. For teenagers. And I got a note just what a week or two ago about some of the kids in our class. This young lady, she's on a BMX team and just crushing it winning. And

We talked about cryotherapy and cold water therapy in my class. And so she got in and she was doing it with her family. And she was in like, I think 30 ice baths, 38 degree water. And she holds the family record for over six minutes. Right. And getting up early and reading great books and like chasing greatness. This is what teens do when they have a goal and that passion and excitement. All people. Yeah. And I'm seeing this all the time. So I get to see both sides. And then you guys, I have the.

Opportunity to help on the other far far end of this where there's suicide attempts or actual suicide, right and or train wrecks and the kids have to go into therapy programs or into fully locked down protected locations I've seen it all and So that's why we speak with so much seriousness around this but let's shift gears a little bit. So we've hit a couple of key principles. Here's another one since

Rachel I had kids and remember you guys when you first the very first moment you became a parent Do you remember that? For us it was adoption and so our very first moment we were standing in the airport and they handed us a baby Remember that? Mm -hmm. I do. It wasn't like nine months of thinking about it and preparing and like there's a little baby inside of you It was like here's your baby in a car seat and we're like, oh man

at the airport. It was awesome. Remember that first moment? You remember that? Remember the feeling of awe and wonder and then the feeling of horrified responsibility and like, oh, I don't want to... And then the lack of sleep. ...person to die. And now am I going to be good enough? Am I going to be adequate? Am I going to be a role model? And I'm so exciting. This is amazing. It's another human being. There's life here in the wonder and awe and greatness and excitement. And you're terrified and you lose sleep. And oh, man. But you remember that moment?

I remember it distinctly and I've tried to keep it with me. And I've had this conviction. I said this to a friend one day when our kids were still quite young. He said, you know, somebody asked, there was a teen struggling or something and they're like, what would you do? And I just had this conviction. Because you at the time were working with teens even then. Who were doing drugs. I've had a chance to work with a lot of teens who were struggling, like drugs, alcohol. I even had a chance to teach a class.

inside a maximum security juvenile detention center and And I just remember thinking look I would do anything and I still feel this way I would do anything to prevent my kids from going that far and And I said to a friend I would say I would take that kid and I would go live on Mount Kilimanjaro So Kilimanjaro has become the symbol for me the kind of this metaphor of of this principle of be willing to go to Kilimanjaro

And yes, we know you can't actually like live on Kilimanjaro. It's something you climb and camp. There's tribes nearby and I would go live with them. I'm dead serious. I would. The point is you would do whatever it takes. I would do anything it takes. I would drop everything, do anything for the kid. Now the problem is this doesn't work after, well it can work after, so don't give up hope. If you're struggling with somebody and you've got to do your Kilimanjaro after they've already...

gotten into deep trouble, it still can work. But what I'm trying to say here is be willing to go to Kilimanjaro before it gets bad, before the dragon is huge. Be willing to do that. Most parents aren't. They want to do the bare minimum. They've slipped into this space of, and here's, man, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna be honest. One of the worst things you can do as a parent is to slip into this coasting, comfortable, convenient existence.

The worst thing you do is when your kids finally come into consciousness as teens and they start noticing you and start not as a little child anymore looking up to you but as a bigger person looking over laterally, the worst thing you do is start coasting through life and sitting on the couch and watching Netflix endlessly and letting your body go and letting your mind go and letting your life go because you've already quote, paid the price and gotten your education and done all your hard work.

The worst thing you can do is start coasting because then your kids, when they finally become cognizant, look over and like, what are you doing with your life? And then instead of looking at you with respect, they look at you with disdain because you're not doing anything mentally and emotionally and physically and spiritually and financially. You're not making a contribution to the world. You're not like leading out by example. You're just existing. And I know that's super harsh and I'm being blunt here, but if your kids don't respect you, they won't listen to you.

and they won't follow your lead. And if your lead is to drift along through life, why would you be surprised if your teens are doing the same thing and get worse results? Because you drift as a teen, you're going to drift into the rocks. So you have to be willing to go to Kim Onjaro. That means putting in the money, the effort, the resources, whatever it takes time to create change and facilitate serious growth. There's a big difference, my friends, between giving your kids a good life.

and helping them create a meaningful life. There is a massive difference there. Well, and in fact, often by giving them a good life, we inadvertently contribute to their problems. Because meaning and purpose aren't always found in good, meaning comfort and ease. A lot of us think of the good life as one that's comfortable and easy and we've got the luxuries, but that doesn't provide meaning or challenge.

And in order to feel alive, we have to be challenged. And so with the best of intentions, many parents are removing the challenge and the struggle from their kids and inadvertently removing the growth. Exactly. You're like, oh, poor kid, let me take away your growth. I want you to see it like that. Every time you try to shield them or protect them or do something for them, I want you to see yourself, oh, I'm taking away growth from my kid. I'm taking away meaning. Oh. And purpose.

Okay, so what are some things you can do? Number one, start with your relationship. Here's an invitation. And again, this is gonna look differently for each parent with each child and each situation depending on where it's at, but I invite you to do this. I've done it with my kids, I invite you to do the same. Go to your child and say, and it's gotta be the right timing, the good spot, you know, take them on a date, Rachel and I take our kids on a date. It's just the two of us and one child. And they get to choose the restaurant and we go out with them and they just talk and talk and talk. It is pure gold. They get one and...

One on two attention, they love it. So it might be something like that or another place, but just ask them, hey, on a scale of one to 10, how would you relate our relationship? And be ready for some honest answers and let them be honest with you. If they're not honest, who's made them afraid to be honest? Like tell them you want the honest truth and be ready for it. If they throw a two at you, like be ready for it. So just say, hey, on a scale of one to 10, how's our relationship? Please be honest. How's our relationship?

And then whatever answer they give, you say, okay, thank you. And what makes it that way? And jot down notes. Don't get defensive. In fact, don't even say anything. Just listen. And then say, what would make it a 10? That's a golden question. What would make it a 10? And if your kids are open and honest, they'll tell you. They're like, you know what? I want more time with you. I want you to pay more attention to me. I want you to be interested in what I'm interested in. Let's go do something. Like, right? It'll come out.

And just listen, take it in, learn from it. I did it with my kids and I got some really great insights. It was fantastic. They told me the things they wish I would do with each of them differently. And with each child, it was a different answer. They're really insightful. It was beautiful. So first place, start there with your relationship. Second is the principle I call micro dosing and macro dosing. It's where you start making deposits into the relationship bank account and into their lives.

And so the micro doses obviously are small doses that happen on a daily basis. Something as simple as hugging your child morning and night. First thing when you see them in the morning and last thing before they go to bed tonight or you go to bed at night, giving them a hug. Saying hi, greeting them, talking to them, sharing things with them, asking them questions. Touching them on the shoulder while you talk to them. What are, and do this self analysis right now, what are your daily rhythms?

and interactions with your kids. What's it like? What's the energy like? When you talk to your kids, when you engage with them, what's your energy? What's the energy you're bringing to them? And then, I mean, little things. So with my littles right now, you guys would all laugh if you could see this. All day long, my three youngest kids beg, plead with me to jump on the trampoline with them. They just love me bouncing them all over the place. And I have yet to out bounce them. I have not had a single instance where they were done.

bouncing before I was exhausted. They can go. And you guys bounce every day. Every day. So every day I'm on the tramp with my littles. Okay. My 16 year old, he loves doing woodwork projects. So I'll come up with any kind of project like he can make something for his little sisters or he can create some cool box I can like I literally will research ideas for things to him to do because he loves doing wood projects with me. With my daughter, she's so into volleyball right now. So peppering.

getting out and just bouncing the ball back forth, just playing and being interested in strategizing with her for that. My other son, he actually wants coaching and personal accountability. And we talk about, we do martial arts together and he's doing stunt work and back flips and coaching there. And so we just go through, like each child has something where I can make a micro investment, right? Little things for the other day. And then of course the macro investments are the big things.

Right? So in three weeks, I'm taking my daughter to Columbia. We share our birthdays are a week apart. So the two of us for our birthdays are going to Columbia. Epic trip because that lights her fire. Right? Big time. That girl lit up. So this will be an absolutely unforgettable trip. The two of us will have a memory for the rest of our lives of just us in Columbia. Right? And that brings up this point of like,

How can you create more memorable moments? Because we all have those moments that we'll remember for the rest of our lives. Why not have more of them? Why not intentionally create more of those? Most often it's just because we're not strategic enough. We're not creative enough. We're not thoughtful enough about it. And we just quote, let life happen. And then it's not very memorable. Which includes even the...

being able to afford it piece. If you're more strategic and you're more intentional, because many people will say, well, we just can't afford to do things like that. But if you're strategic and intentional, then you can afford that because you plan for it and you make it happen. It's just a matter of priorities and it gets right down to it. So you just start asking the question, well, how could we afford it? What, what, what can we cut out of our lives that's less meaningful so that we can add more that is more meaningful again?

thoughtfulness strategy and you guys were like whoa that's a little bit extreme yeah like be extreme yeah come on this is parenting man you get one shot

I want to add... Can you feel that you guys? You get one shot. Don't blow it. And if you've blown it already and you're looking around at the rubble, get building that back. Grab those rocks, grab those bricks and rebuild your cathedral. I don't know what other pieces you have planned, but I did want to add in here, which ties in, I think, to the macro dosing.

is just this idea of a pattern interrupt. And a pattern interrupt can be so powerful, especially for your teens, especially if they're already in like a funk and you're trying to get them out of it. They need a pattern interrupt. And what a pattern interrupt is essentially is something that interrupts the normal pattern of your life.

So if you have these daily routines that you just do day in and day out and there's nothing new and exciting or adventurous, change that. Do something unexpected. Do something totally different. Take them on a trip to Columbia or to wherever, anywhere. Like just do something that they would, now obviously it helps a ton if it's something they would actually like to do. If you take them someplace that they would hate or would be boring.

That's still a pattern interrupt, but not as effective per se because they're going to be upset about it. And if you don't know what they'd like, that's a problem. Man, this is your chance. Well, and I want to say this. A lot of parents are hesitant to do something like that because they feel, well, I don't want to reward my child for their poor behavior or for the way they've been acting. And so they see it as a reward and punishment system instead of a tool. Or an investment.

or an investment to help them get the results they actually want. We have seen this happen so many times and we just get frustrated where parents can see their kids are off, they can see that something's not working and we suggest things like you should do this, you should do that, you should try this, have them do this or that. Well I don't want to reward them. That would be giving them a reward and they've been, you know, they don't deserve it.

Or, oh, we can't just do that right now. We're busy. We got other things. We got other stuff. And whenever there are lists of stuff, I'm like, that's inconsequential here to what we're talking about. The literal life of your child is potentially on the line. At least the life force. The life style. The life meaning. Yeah. The life purpose. And that's on the line here. And you're like, yeah, but we have choir practice this week.

I'm like, are you kidding me? And then, you know, it often happens tragically. I gotta share this. They come back to me when the kid has now been committed to the program or has attempted suicide and everything in life gets dropped. I'm like, yeah, you could have chosen. You could have dropped it before. You could have taken these actions before to prevent it getting to this point. And we see that time and time again. And so we're here telling you now.

Notice the symptoms. Notice the signs and do something about it before they get bigger because they will. If you don't do something about the signs when you see them, they will just keep growing. So back to what I would do if I had a son that was just sleeping in until he disconnected, he and I would be on a plane tomorrow. I'd be like, hey buddy, just pack a bag. We're going somewhere really cool. And the first thing that comes to my mind right now is I'd either fly up to Alaska,

and meet a buddy up there, we'd be on snow machines across frozen lakes doing some epic crazy stuff or maybe a flight right down to Cancun and get out on the beach and go snorkeling and scuba diving or whatever, some humanitarian trail. I'd go to the deepest, poorest parts of Morocco or Africa or India or Guatemala. I'd go in somewhere really and create this major wake -up call. Like I would go walk through the shanty towns of Casablanca and...

the wake up call that would happen in that reality check. Ooh baby, that kid's gonna come out and be like, okay, my life has changed. And you think, oh, I can't afford this because it's gonna cost too much. The truth is you can't afford not to. Exactly. Because the investment you're gonna have to make later to fix the problems is gonna cost way more than a plane ticket. Way, by 10 times or more. So like let the reality of that sink in.

Like make it happen, do whatever it takes. Again, it's the Kilimanjaro philosophy. I would be on a plane tomorrow. We'd go have this epic experience. And actually I would strategically have him meet some people who live a totally different reality than he does and have a serious reality wake up call. And I would strategically meet with people who are big high achievers, really successful, achieving great things and be like, hey, what did you do to achieve that? And meet with some Olympians or some great business people he would respect. Well, sorry to interrupt for a second.

I mean, in one way, that's the next level up, is something like that. At the very least, taking them somewhere is creating, we call it a state change. State, and we're not talking about like the state you live on and you go to a different state, we're talking about a state change. Some of you may need to change that state. Yes, absolutely. The environment you live in has a massive impact. And if you live in this boring, stale, stagnant place because your family, your great grandpa decided to move there,

Man, move! Go somewhere else. We've talked to families about this before. I remember it was last year, this family was like, oh, our youth are struggling. I show them, well, what's going on? What are their friends? They don't have any friends. The people around here are making better cities. I'm like, move! And they're like, what? Uproot everything? I'm like, yeah! Take your kids and go. And they did, you guys, and their kids and their families thriving. They went and tested out some places. They went and tried some places and met with the community, the homeschooling groups, the churches, all this stuff.

And they're like, this is our spot. There was a different vibe there, this didn't feel, so they moved. Okay, sorry. But back to state change, and what this references is you, your body, and obviously your teen's body, are in a regular state. Meaning there are certain chemicals that are flowing through your body that cause you to feel the way that you do on a regular basis. And for many of you, that state is a very low energy state.

Maybe it's frustration you feel most of the time, or annoyance, or irritation, or just blah. Which is what most teenagers, when Greg asks, most teenagers say they consistently feel a sense of blah. Okay, that's your state. When you take a trip, when you go somewhere new, especially if it's got something interesting, or different, or exciting, it changes your state. It is...

physiologically changing the chemistry in your body and producing new chemicals so you feel different. And when you feel different, when you're in a different state, that's the time to talk to your kid about these important things. Because now, guess what? They're not gonna be thinking in their blah state. They're thinking in the new exciting state. They're feeling inspired. They want to do better. They want to be better. They want to change things. And that's when they are gonna be motivated.

to make new commitments or to create new habits. It's a very powerful tool that you can actually use to change your kids. And it's not really that hard. In fact, it's very easy, but parents just put up this wall of excuses of why it can't be done. So, oh man, spot on Rach. That is the key. Change your state when they're in this sense of possibility and hope. Positivity. Then you say, okay, well let's make a plan.

Let's do this. What are we going to do differently? And then when you go back home, don't go back into the same rut or the pit of mediocrity that you've hollowed out there. As somebody said, don't go back into that same situation. Go back and revamp everything. If you've got to put, you've got to throw away your TV or sell it or put it in the storage unit or something. If you've got to totally change the whole dynamics of the house, get the kid out of the basement, move his bedroom, like do totally different things, sign up for classes or whatever, like whatever you have to do.

make the changes and go back into a new pattern, a new reality, a new habit that's going to be empowering. And I have to say, like Rachel reminded me of what she was saying about changing the state, a lot of the most talented and sought after coaches and therapists and counselors in this space, the very first thing they start to assess is food.

what kind of food are we eating? Because a lot, there's so much chemicals, so much garbage. So if you need junk food and processed foods and fast food, there's so much junk in that, and there's direct links. Again, this isn't our opinion. This is backed up by very specific research and science. There's chemicals that are triggering these kind of behaviors and mental responses from anxiety to depression to discouragement to whatever.

So check food. You've got to get healthy food. That'll change your state. Exercising, moving your body, and then their habits. They're looking at their habits. They're like, hey, you know, you got to get up at a certain time every morning. Let's pick a time and get up every morning at that time. It doesn't matter where your trauma came from. It doesn't matter what was the initial cause. It doesn't matter where your genetics are. Across the board. You'll feel better if you get up at the same time every day. And then move your body and eat good food. Wow.

Nobody can argue against that. Whatever. You will feel better. And guess what else? If you smile. That's the move. Feel like smiling. Yeah. But guess what? When you smile, you force a smile. It releases serotonin into your body. And you're like, oh, I feel better. And it's possible, this is interesting, but it's possible to get addicted to negativity. Addicted to pessimism and discouragement and depression and fear.

because it releases cortisol and we get addicted to it. But that's a whole other topic. So again, I think there's lots of tools we've got in here. Please know there are strategies, there's tools, there's training, there's help, there's hope. If you need some serious help, reach out to us. We can set up a coaching session. We have a parenting program, how to be a parent mentor, how to mentor your kids through these changes. And as this becomes new to you and you're taking on a new role and new challenges, lean into it.

grow, learn, rise up, do whatever it takes. Be willing to go to Kilimanjaro. And I know we kept using the sleeping in problem throughout this podcast as the example, but this would work with any other problem. This strategy is something, especially pattern interrupting, state changing, this will work with porn or drugs or even all these other, yeah, screen addictions.

pretty much anything you can think of, this is a strategy that works. So there's hope. There's so much. And you guys, I've had the privilege to take so many kids out of this pit where they, of their own accord, they'll get up and say, you know what? No, I'm not staying up late anymore. I'm not sleeping anymore. And they set their alarm and they get up.

And they themselves either sell or even throw away or destroy in some cases their gaming console because they realize, yeah, that's not leading me to my best self. That's not taking me to my dreams. It's just fun. And then they make those choices. Yes, filling the void. And then they set huge goals and they go do the most incredible and inspiring things that most of us think, oh, teams don't do that. They just were blah, blah, blah, right?

And it's just not the case. At any age, when you're on fire and lit up with excitement for life, incredible things, inspiring things, wonderful things are happening, and life is so good, and then the nagging and the dragging and the tears and the fears and the fights go away, and you get to cheer and celebrate as your children do incredible things and live their potential and rise. So, lean in. Take this very, very seriously.

and spend some time in creativity. Somebody, a friend of mine pointed out to me that reactive and creative are spelled the exact, with the exact same letters. The only difference is the letter C. You just move it to the front. So you can be reactive as a parent and to these situations or you can be creative as a parent and to these situations. And all you have to do is move the C.

So then we can get in geek out and play on, you know, the plan words and plan sounds and we could go with C S E E. If you move C to the front, then you're no longer reactive. You're creative. Yeah. You change your perspective. You can do so much with that. And this is our invitation. Be super creative. Put in the, put in the mental work here, put in all the work and come up with ways to really help your teens, mental health, wellbeing.

and help them break out of problems that can be destructive. Thrive. To thrive. And I forgot to mention this, but reach out for outside help. Sometimes your youth, they don't want to hear from you. And that's one of the reasons I do my habits for a successful ice class for youth. They love it. And they get to hear from somebody else. And we get to read great books together, have great discussions, and be able to coach, right? And we...

We send our kids to other great coaches and mentors and classes and all that stuff. So getting these outside perspectives. And our kids are reading books all the time. And, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Actually, why don't you finish and then I'm going to add this piece. Go for it. Well, and then I just want to add because there are some cases where clinical help and medication are necessary. Now,

They're often the rare cases and these strategies should be tried first. But I just want to cover our butts by saying that too. Okay. That was a cover our butts statement. Exactly. I'm pretty adamantly, just personally, me against medication. But anyways, that's a whole different thing. Yes, and there is definitely long -term negative effects that medication can contribute to bigger problems. Yes.

But just so we're clear, there may be cases when it is necessary. Yep. And, but by and large, those are more rare. Exactly. They're the exception, not the rule. Yes. So there's hope you guys, let's get excited. Even if you're in the, this might be like, you're like, but this is exciting and fantastic. We're willing to help. I've helped tons and like get out there, lean into it, make life exciting, make your own life exciting, make their life exciting. Give them the tools and the training to help them thrive.

So that life is extraordinary and you get to wake up and you're like we do like we get to wake up every day. I'm like, I can't believe we get to live life. I told Rachel this morning. I'm like, I can't believe we get to do life together. Right? How awesome this is and seven wonderful kids that are just growing and learning and doing cool stuff. And we get to work with other awesome families. Like life is so cool. And we've been in dark spots before you guys. So it hasn't always been so cool, but.

We're trying to help prevent those and get you out of them so that you can get in this place where you wake up every day and you're like, man, I love family life. It's the best. Okay, love you guys. Good job, guys.

If you're still here, thank you so much for listening. There are hundreds of thousands of podcasts out there and you've chosen to listen to ours. Thanks for that. And if you found value in this episode, please consider rating or leaving us a review on Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast here. You can find the show notes for this episode at ExtrainaryFamilyLife .com.

where you can also take the next step to level up your family life by taking a course, a challenge, or a workshop, or by receiving coaching from Greg and I in marriage, parenting, money, or more.